"Therapy has potential for noncriminals. For criminals, it becomes one more criminal operation. " "I bet you have that psychologist wrapped around your finger." - Coach Molinaro Season 5 Episode 11 "The Test Dream" FB: / thesopranoscrazy
I've always thought the coach wasn't raking Tony over the coals here, but rather expressing his deep disapointment in a sarcastic and scathing way. Tony's coach here represents the truth that he knows but has spent seasons of the show repressing or dismissing. He eas an actually intelligent, hard-working, and gifted individual with immense potential. But he feels he's wasted that potential going into the mafia. So the whole show he rationalizes that he was never good enough or that the mob life was inevitable for him, but in reality his penchant for mob life was less because he had a knack for it rather than the fact that he was much more competent and smarter than everyone else. Just listen to his conversations with others. Bobby mixes up the hunchback of Notre Dame with the quarterback, and When Junior didn't understand Tony's metaphor with Octavian spreading around his wealth he had to resort to the joke about cows fucking. Tony woke up one day 40-something years old wondering what the fuck happened, and avoids at all possible thinking about his bad choices and deludes himself that he never had any potential. But at the same time he hates it when people like Junior say he never had the makings of a varsity athlete because he's insecure about it, and while he deludes himself, that doesn't mean he still doesn't desperately wish it isn't true that he was a talented kid with a great future because he turned out wih a life that's so different. And it's the decision he made to enter a life a crime that daily sabotages his marriage, a relationship with his kids, kills his own best friends, makes him paranoid, and stresses his body and mind to the point of physical collapse. Because he regrets the decision he made to give up a life he'll never know for a life of daily hell. The show's not only about a tragic life of a mobster: it's about a guy who made the wrong choice and lives with the consequences every day for the rest of his life, until that decision takes his life in the end.
Good analysis. The coach was correct about Tony. Had he challenged his intelligence into "legal" avenues, he would have likely been very successful in spheres like sports, business, politics etc. Now, as he ages, those demons are haunting him.
Tony's hands are shaking with anger at the line "I told you many times you were special. You had smarts, personality, leadership ability: all the prerequisite needed to lead young men onto the field of sport"
I always thought the same thing. The dream in the 'Test dream' episode was so perfectly modeled after real dreams. I've yet to see anyone do a better job of it than The Sopranos.
The bullets are chocolate. When Tony wakes from this dream, he immediately goes for a chocolate bar (Toblerone) from the mini fridge. Chris asks to have it (an addicts's favorite). What does it all mean? Who knows.
This is so goddamn relatable. Having mental conversations with people from the past, saying and doing things you wish you could have, then it all comes crashing down when the reality sets in. You spend years going over the things they said and did when you knew them, wondering whether or not they had a point or you did. Some memories of people really never shut up.
"The whole life that could have been but wasn't" (Manuel Bandeira). Tony had the smarts, the personality, the charisma, but he lacked discipline. He fell into the life by following in his dad's footsteps and listening to troublemakers instead of carving his own path. Like the series often hints at - Vito not being able to cope with a "normal" day's work, Christopher at the gas station seeing a father with a bunch of kids, a negging wife, and a shitty car - some of these mobsters stay mobsters because, to them, that's the path of least resistance. The consequence? A guilty conscience (call it "Coach Molinaro") that haunts them for the rest of their lives, which they try to drown out by indulging in a multitude of vices and violent outbursts.
About time some one throws their hat in the ring and tries to decipher these dream scenes for us laymen. Theres a thousand comments on the other interpretations for the show, but few on the dreams. Right on
Like the time when Tony was lecturing AJ on his ancestral stonemasons and showing him the old neighborhood, even though AJ points out they never go to that church anymore and they let the old neighborhood fall to shit. A subconscious part of Tony knows he disgraces his honorable Italian roots.
J Burns He means that Tony is indeed successful, no irony to be seen. Of darkness, however, this scene contains a lot. Saying “I’m successful” in a dream implies he doesn’t feel so, not really. Tony is successful, but he doesn’t really feel good. He feels miserable and its hard to see your success through the lenses of misery.
When Tony tells his coach he should respect him because he isn't some kid anymore, I love how the coach says "no". To me, hes saying "no, you're not a kid anymore" and "no, i will never respect you" at the same time.
@Lang Hansen remember that scene where Uncle Jun and Baccala were watching football and Jr says to Bobby "Leave me the fuck alone" In my opinion, Jr was thinking about Tony, and how he COULDVE played pro ball. In that scene you see a slight smile and he shakes his head almost saying. "Tony couldve done it"
@Dave Palomba no, my post was definitely about you. You said coaches never care about their players. I have coaches that I still have friendship with for over 40 years. You don't have that. I guess you just werent memorable or good at sports.
It is a shame. Therapists are a fucking joke, no life experience, college grad nobodies trying to tell other people whats what. Im telling you, as a man, you are better off just exercising, getting your T counts higher, and naturally curing your issues. You dont need some schmuck telling you what you already know in your heart.
@@waragainstmyself1159 Let go of your pride and ego. It seems like the hardest thing to do as a man but once you do it'll feel like a massive weight lifted off your shoulders. Life isn't about being "alpha".
War Against Myself Yeah please don’t listen to this advice. Seek therapy and don’t let “alpha” males like this guy tell you that it’s “beta” or weak to do it. And then he’ll wonder why he’s hanging himself 15 years later when he can’t handle his emotions anymore.
I love it because it’s so loaded. Is it a shame that therapy will make this memory loop end. Is it a shame that tony ended up in therapy. Or is it depreciation, like Oh boo hoo that’s a shame.
This is my hands-down favorite scene in the entire show. Here we see the figments of Tony's memories of his beloved Coach Molinaro, mixed with what would be the Coach's current reaction to how Tony turned out. It can be discerned from this conversation that Coach Molinaro knew that Tony came from a broken, mafia-ridden home. The Coach, knowing Tony's home life, clearly tried to distract Tony and guide Tony away from the mob, be it through football or otherwise. We then see how Tony turned out: a stressful mess that is far from happiness. The Coach, as others pointed out, serves as Tony's conscience; Tony knows he went wrong and just cannot admit it to himself. Instead of repenting to Coach Molinaro--and thus his conscience, i.e. being honest with himself--Tony attempts to use his juvenile mafioso antics, e.g. name-calling, deflecting, lying, and acting like a wise guy. When those do nothing, he reverts to the worst tool in the mafia's arsenal: murder. Of course, that does not work either: NOTHING that Tony can do as a 'big bag' mafia boss will "shut up" Coach Molinaro. It is in fact impossible for such tactics to work Tony's only happiness could only come from escaping the mob life, not by retreating deeper into it. This is also confirmed by the scene where Carmine Jr. confides in Tony about how the only way he became happy was to reject the mob ["It's not about being boss; it's about being happy"].
@@bobbyfirmansyah8580 honestly he was the only person to come out on top …… a few others got away in time before falling to the cycle OR the fallout of the Jersey Crew ……
It's pretty amazing how influential figures in early life are, like teachers. I'm 25 years old and still fantasize about telling my past teachers about my future successes. The see you constantly, act as an authority, and guide you in a very impressionable part of people's lives. They see you before the world beats you down or you take on fake personas of adulthood. One of the few who truly know who you are on the inside
No it’s from his father. The coach represents his failure to become who could of been. That’s why he said “not surprised in therapy blaming his mother!”
@@DOPEdwarf Odd. I could care less about any of my old teachers or coaches. I fantasize about being able to take care of my family, but beyond that, I don't really care what people think
I love how much this shows how Tony like many of us is always searching for some form of validation. I think the fact at he couldn’t just murder his coach shows that for all his bravado he can’t escape the crushing insecurities of his childhood.
1:57 This line right here sums up just how pathetic these ‘made guys’ really are. Tony and the other mobsters in this show are all deeply insecure men who use guns and violence to soothe their fragile egos. The whole scene is brilliant, and I love how the only man who could emasculate Tony in his subconscious was his high school football coach.
I think this is actually one of the most brilliant scenes in any series or movie history. There are so many hidden nuances being in a dream state like Tony was and the acting being that it was spot-on. This was a very underrated scene
@@Rocksteddybelmont Artie is normal. He works a normal job running his restaurant, and he takes pride in it. He has a normal marriage with normal stresses. He doesn't have it all, and sometimes he's tempted to reach for more, but he does the best he can to get by. He's just like the rest of us.
This is what junior meant when he said he didn’t have the makings of a varsity athlete. His problem with authority and being lazy. Not his physical body.
Which plays out in the next episode when Silvio confronts Tony. “This isn’t about your cousin it’s about you don’t wanna eat shit from Johnny Sack” The dream begins with the cousin but it’s really about Tony’s underlying insecurities.
Happy to add my two cents. Other than Tony's father, Coach Molinaro was the only person Tony both feared and respected. The coach represents Tony's conscience. Tony dreams of silencing his conscience but he cannot. "You'll never shut me up!"
I love when the coach says “no”. It’s ambiguous and you’re not sure if he’s agreeing about Tony not being a kid anymore, or if he’s saying no to giving Tony respect
This dream and the other dream where he sees the silhouette of his mother descending down the creaky staircase are the creepiest scenes from the entire series for me.
camp168 I've been beat up by big brutes, and i was frightened when it happened, but i never felt any pain. I just laid there, went to sleep, and another dream started. I've also killed people in dreams, and gotten shot too .. many times. Very weird, these dreams can get.
Or trying to punch someone and you're barely touching them, or trying to put the car in gear but stays in neutral, or trying to press the breaks but will not work, or calling 911 and you can't find the 9, or calling and its too busy lol
marco437 I've had guns not work in dreams... Then again, I've also had them work just fine. But still, it's weird that everyone seems to have a dream about a malfunctioning gun at some point in their lives.
Mikhail Kopanev Actually, a lot of people were more “alpha” than Tony-Johnny Sack, Carmine Sr, Richie, Feech. T just had high intelligence and was a very skilled manipulator. He definitely presented himself as an alpha in regards to being the boss, which was something he learned very well from his father. But otherwise he was codependent mama’s boy who spent his entire life depressed and was so riddled with anxiety that he frequently passed out from it. Sluts that he banged always got him worked up emotionally and left him scarred and disappointed. Especially Svetlana, who really turned him out. That isn’t an alpha male in my book, no matter how many people he killed.
I'm not so sure about Richie being more alpha than Tony. He was just a psycho who "couldn't fucking sell it," despite having "such moxxie for a guy his size." In other words, he was clearly overcompensating, and probably in the same way Tony had to. The difference being that, like you said, Tony was canny and charming. Richie was just a creep who relied on his "Manson lamps" and boyish deviousness and hyper-violence to get his way. That's why he ended up with someone as weak-willed and emotionally stunted as Janice (it certainly wasn't Richie's charm that won her over). I always saw Tony's panic attacks around Richie as that small part of his sub-consciousness that was screaming to him just how evil his "business" was. Being forced to get acquainted with a clueless motherfucker like Richie also forced Tony to look inside himself a little bit, which he obviously opted not to do.
tony was an alpha male. He was someone that people wanted to follow. Deep down he knows that he could have had it differant and he knows he's causing a lot of pain doing what he does, so that's where his anxiety and depression comes from.
His gym coach, the best ‘authority’ on the subject, says that he DOES have the makings of a varsity athlete (at least mentally)... His Uncle Jun convinced him that he DIDN’T have the makings of a varsity athlete... Tony listened to the wrong authoritative figure when he was a kid, and imo “those bums” that Coach Molinaro refers to is indirectly Junior/Johnny Boy, as the only other peer Molinaro mentions is Artie, who ended up legitimate....
The other bums were people like Big Pussy and Silvio and Ralph. Pussy played baseball with Tony and likely knew this coach as well. Ralph as well who dropped out of school in 11th grade. Keep in mind that Artie may have even had mafia fantasies in high school before becoming a chef in his father's business. We know that Artie desperately tries to become a mafia-like man in almost every season, trying to go into business with Tony, trying to marry Adriana, beating up Benny, he had some wild ideas in his head for sure.
The first time I saw this episode, I expected it was directed by David Lynch. The strange sense of something being off, the shift in settings, and moments of surreal horror. However, it’s this scene that truly makes it one of the most underrated episodes ever. A brief glimpse into Tony’s early life and a person who tried to set Tony on a path to happiness. If only Tony had listened to his coach instead of Junior.
I can’t help but imagine how Lynch would’ve gone off the deep end if given these dream sequences. I love the guy’s work, but sometimes he gets so caught up in visualising the absurd that it becomes incoherent. And while that’s usually the point, it wouldn’t have worked in a character-driven show like The Sopranos. I think David Chase struck a nice balance between bizarre and meaningful. The dreams are downright unsettling but you usually know what they mean.
Love this scene. There are very few people (if any) Tony would be intimated by as an authority figure but old teachers/coaches always seem to retain that power.
When the bullets degraded in his hand it made me think of the teeth falling out or crumbling dream. Means loss of control, insecurity, coming into a new age
A thought: Tony's obsession with varsity athlete stuff and high school wasn't for the athletics themselves. If Tony had been a varsity athlete he would have had a good shot at making it onto a college team. Going to college would have given him the opportunity to go legitimate; he wouldn't have had to go into the mob. Maybe, deep down, Tony always wanted to be legitimate, and he sees his being unable to excel in athletics as having cost him a shot at it and eventually forcing him into the mob. He may not have had the makings of a varsity athlete, but he certainly had the makings of a varsity mobster.
"I am a leader! You aughta show some respect!" he yells at the man who can't even be bothered to look at him, and is counting jerseys instead of paying his bullshit any mind. It's a powerful way of manipulating a conversation (you see Tywin in GoT do the same thing) and it makes sense for it to appear in a dream. Tony knows how to control and manipulate people, and since the coach has all the power in his dream, his coach is making use of the real life techniques Tony'd realistically know and use himself.
This should have been the Many Saints of Newark - Teenage Tony having to choose between two paths and two mentors - Coach Molinaro and Dickie Moltsanti.
I love the detail of how they edited the scene with the coach and how his cigar keeps switching between his hands, this is Tony’s memory of the coach and people never remember the whole conversation so he’s only remembering the most striking parts of the conversation, it says a lot that all Tony remember about his conversations with his coach is about how much potential he had and how he shouldn’t of hung around with his mob friends, it stuck with Tony as he knew to be true.
I like the scene where he's talking to Carmela about this dream, and she alludes to the fact that it's a recurring dream. And how it also shows that he talks to her about EVERYTHING (without making her an "accomplice after the fact"). FUCKING BRILLIANT SHOW!
probably the one dude that Tony ever truly looked up to deep down. even though he brushed off the coach's caring as just him "wanting to keep me out of trouble to make it easier for him".
Among many other brilliant things in this dream sequence, note how at 2:12 Coach Molinaro's single "No" means both "You're not a kid anymore" and "You haven't earned my respect".
To me, it’s pretty obvious what’s going on here: it’s Tony subconscious screaming to him how he’s wasted his potential through pursuing the mob life. Sure he might live in a McMansion with a beautiful wife and children, but he probably would been living in the exact same house if he pursued a career as a businessman, lawyer, doctor, or any other field. Not only that, but he would probably not be constantly committing infidelity, physically and mentally abusing his kids, and would have a good group of friends and colleagues that liked and respected him for who he is rather than dealing with sociopathic mobsters who only respect him out of power and could betray him at any moment. Deep down inside Tony knows this, but can’t confront it until it’s too late.
"Got a house worth a million two, 2 kids, a wife -- " "Do you?" "Do I what?" "Have a wife?" "Yea! She's got the big house ----- 'cause I'm successful." #America
It’s also amazing too that at the beginning Tony is trying to shoot the Coach but he fails because he notices him, then at the end he gets so mad he decides to kill him, but the gun falls apart and he desperately tries to pick up the pieces while the coach is yelling at him “you’re not prepared!” Basically just telling Tony that he can’t shoot, beat, and storm away from all his problems like we’ve seen him do before, that one day he’s going to be faced with the guilt and stress over what he’s done, whether it be his consciousness telling him like the coach or him in purgatory, and admit that for most of his life he’s done wrong. It’s an obvious scene but it’s done so well.
*Powerful fucken scene* - This scene proves the reasons behind why Tony became way more successful than the kids he grew up with. *Tony could shut the whole world down, outsmart the FBI, give hell to NYC mob, fuck the most beautiful women in the world, mint $$$'s etc etc, but he will never be able to face his coach let alone bury him 6 feet under the mire* , NEVER
This show nailed what dreams are like. The surrealism, the lack of satisfaction from never being able to 'complete' a task, the way you can never surprise anyone, the hopelessness, the hinting at what you need to do in real life etc
" I was just shining you on that what i do with people" If you could interpret his dreams better the truth was there for him to see. Nobody ever want to look in the mirror and see how they truly are.
Ive had dreams that played out like this one. Once an alien was coming after me. And every time I tried to grab a knife to fight it, I fumbled and I couldn’t grab it. It’s crazy how realistic this scene is. This writing is on another level...
IMO, this dream segment is Chase's take on the Freudian tripartite model of personality. Tony is mostly pure Id as well as some Ego, albeit in increasingly decreasing capacity, in navigating everyday life's demands in pursuit of his various endless wants, whims, and desires. The coach on the other hand represents the Super Ego or conscience that Tony as a psychopath utterly ignores. This segment starts with a futile sneaky attempt to assassinate the coach, to silence the annoying voice and to finally get revenge on one individual who actually knew his real nature. Despite being in the shadows and having the advantage of surprise, Tony’s effort is easily deflected by the coach who doesn’t even raise his head. This could indicate that he is always with Tony and that he cannot be got rid of, thus knowing his every intention, move, and reasons behind them. It could also mean that while not obeying any conscience, remorse or guilt, true hallmarks of a psychopath, Tony is fully aware of duality of right and wrong or else this scene would be pointless since the manifestation of the coach would be redundant. Tony just wants to silence the annoying voice that neither fears nor respects him, the one grating anomaly in the great fiefdom of crime and violence he has created where everyone acknowledges his superiority. The vicious and bottomless narcissism of his predatory nature cannot bear the thought of his perceived supremacy not being fanfared. Think of it as Chase’s nihilistic take on Pinocchio and the resilient yet annoying Jiminy the Cricket which in Collodi’s more mature and darker original tale is actually killed by the wooden hoodlum but returns as a ghost in its persistence to save his soul. The major difference between Pinocchio and Tony is that the wooden boy is redeemed through many trials and hard-earned lessons and becomes the real thing. No such luck for our misfit. The above is further strengthened by Tony’s overall mocking tone while smirkingly reminding the coach that he used to ‘shine him on’ and that he does this to everyone else too. This establishes a lifelong pattern and indicates something more biological, hereditary, and sinister considering the extreme levels of dysfunction within his family of origin. The brilliance of this multi-faceted scene is further enhanced by the fact that Tony’s overall deviousness and psychopathy and his battle with the present yet ineffective Super Ego i.e. Coach Molinaro is a glimpse of things to come towards the end of the series when doc Melfi finally realises, while reading the seminal Yochelson & Samenow paper, that she has been ‘shined on’ for years, the coach actually mentions this during the dream segment, and that not only has her efforts been futile but worst still, it may have empowered Tony by making his Machiavellianism much more sophisticated, potent, and subtle. In other words, Chases is already showing the ending of Tony’s character arc where unlike Pinocchio there cannot be any redemption. Overall, the interactions between the coach and Tony are marked by the former’s indifference towards Tony’s ‘achievements’ including status and wealth and the latter’s juvenile boasting and futile demands for respect, indicating Tony's lifelong desperate quest for domination and supremacy. The attention to details is exquisite as always with the coah counting shirts and barely paying attention to Tony's ravings while the conversation is had in the boys' locker room, further highlighting the actual power imbalance between the two as well as Tony' impotence despite his blind attempts to prove otherwise. The second assassination attempts is also futile, proving imperviousness of the coach to any harm Tony may try, with the bullets melting. Interestingly enough, no mentions of the coach are made again and Tony’s decent into all manners of depravity and vile behaviour accelerates as the series speeds up towards its brilliant conclusion. Did Tony finally manage to kill the coach or was he there till the end, desperately trying to save his rotten and irredeemable soul? Like other great works of fiction, this is left to our imagination and each of us come up with our own individual answers.
its his father. Its basically his coach and his father actually. One one had he is saying some stuff like: I told you not to hang out with those guys (coach), but then suddenly his fathers voice comes through and says: yeah guys like artie. Tony is projecting his deepest childhood trauma related to his father on the one guy in highschool who believed in him as someone who could do something legit. Its an actual dream concept that Freud explained. 'you'll never shut me up' is his father, because Tony never wants to admit that his father was the reason his life is what it is, not his mothers fault. She was just mean. Melfi tried to get to the subject of his father many times, but he always steered away from it by blaming his mother
They added in most of the breathing in post with a different audio channel to make sure that the sound was being emphasized and heard over the other ambient noises and dialog. The breathing is like its own character essentially and is even written into the scripts.
Ain't this the truth. No matter where you end up in life, even if it surpassed what you wanted, you still think back to HS, and when someone (Teacher or otherwise) made your life hell.
I don't. Do you? I do sometimes remember this one girl I really liked who just didn't want to go out with me. Was totally not into me AT ALL. But otherwise it was mostly good times. I guess I can remember a dickhead teacher or something if I dig into the memories, but not off the top of my head, and certainly not a recurring thought.
An archaic term for ant; pissant. The writers are good. pismire Also found in: Thesaurus, Wikipedia. Related to pismire: pissant pis·mire (pĭs′mīr′, pĭz′-) n. Archaic An ant.
The scene with the gun falling apart and the bullets turning to goo, even the coughing, I swear I’ve had dreams just like that. No matter how hard I try to do something I just can’t. Things don’t work right or they fall apart.
Damn what a great scene. We learn here that for all of Tony’s money, power and material success he feels like a great failure inside because he never stood up to the demands of his family and environment and followed his own dreams for his life.
Imagine Tony as a high school coach. Either way he had the smarts and personality to achieve great things legally had he not chosen 'the easy way' as his old coach stated. Wow so Artie was a bad influence on Tony. What a twist.
No, Tony envies Artie because he had the courage to not take the easy route. When the coach spoke of Artie's success in disbelief, it was Tony's subconsciously
Another great scene! Tony was tormented psychologically by his coach for not having "the makings of a varsity athlete." It was one of the few people in his life that got into his head when he was young. I can almost relate to him and the pressure he had to endure in order to succeed.
Uncle Junior always told Tony he never had the makings. The coach supported Tony, and told tony he'd be a great coach too, which is something Tony wanted to do. He chose the easy way out, and now has too much stress because of it. Tony wishes he had just became a coach instead, which is why he can never "shut up" the coach in his dream.
Tony WAS a varsity athlete in football. You even see his mother keep the varsity letter. He also excelled in baseball according to Big Pussy. Tony was definitely a jock growing up and a tough guy. Almost assuredly could have been a full time high school or college coach/athletic trainer if his parents supported that path for him. Instead his father cut off a man's finger in front of him then recruit his son PLUS his son's friends into his mafia family. Dooming Tony forever. And Tony's mother watched as her son joined the mafia and never protected him either. Melfi even says to Tony that the reason AJ will never be in the mafia is because of Carmela protecting him. Not Tony.
