The Speed of Multiversus (And other fighting games) 

What's your thoughts on the games speed? Do you like the new speed? Prefer the old Multiversus? I personally think that we can meet a happy middle ground with enough time with satisfying movement, yet high commitment gameplay that keeps players considerate of what options they choose. Let me know what you think!

My problem with the speed of the game is that it seems uncommitted to either being a fast or slow game, making it feel like the worst of both worlds. The movement is shafted, and that's the one that is most talked about with it feeling like the game is no longer fast. However... Dodge spam is still very much a problem (and the meter is not punishing enough for most of the cast), as are noncommittal moves that only around half of the cast have while the other half just don't have noncommittal moves for some reason. This makes the game not feel like a slow paced game, since the slow game fundamentals discussed in this video don't really apply for Multiversus. I think this is what makes Multiversus feel so unappealing to so many people, because it is not committed to one style of play or the other. While I don't dislike the game, I really would prefer if the game commits to one of either style of game speed.

The slowness of the game is not what’s keeping me from enjoying playing/watching it. It’s the overall physics and the way characters move around the screen. It looks less like characters in an arena fighting and more like characters flying around the screen doing animations that happen to hit. Why do the characters stay in the air for so long when jumping, and why does momentum look like that…??

That "gambling" section was hilarious

As someone who plays a lot of fighting games, I have to both agree and disagree with some of your takes. I definitely agree that Melee is a fast paced game that sometimes disproportionately rewards agressive play at lower levels. The defender typically will only have a few options to escape back to neutral, while the aggressor almost always has a laundry list of mixups that can cover multiple of said options. However, I don't agree with Street Fighter being "slow." It's true that SF is typically known for footsies and grounded play, but that doesn't necessarily make the game slow. Sf6, SF3, and SF2 feel very fast and offense-oriented. In addition, the various mechanics in each game such as the parry, V-trigger, ultra, and drive rush systems all serve to enhance offense and emphasize that holding block is the _worst_ position to be in. On the topic of MV, I feel that the main issue isn't even necessarily the slow frame data, or the hitstun. It's the ridiculous floatiness and the *30 frames* of input buffering that make it feel like you cant properly space. If they wanted to take this approach, they should have copied games like Samurai Shodown, where it's practically the norm for characters to have absurd range and disjoints, but it's balanced out by the slow and methodical nature of the neutral game. As it stands right now, I don't think it's fair to say that people who preferred the fast feeling of the MV beta simply don't enjoy it now because they "don't like slow gameplay." I think the bigger issue here is that the MV devs seem clueless as to what makes slow gameplay interesting and complex. Right now, you have no control of the space around you, and both characters float around the screen, aimlessly putting out hitboxes and praying for a connect.

“a faster game isn’t always a better game” the story of nasb1

Nice video, needs a follow-up called “No, Multiversus isn’t Brawl”.

"people would mog you in the back alley if you threw them too many times" This still exist in the form of what's called "casual players" (referred as "the shower takers" in the holy ancient street fighter guide). My father's 50 and he still gets mad when I throw more than 2 fireball a round (mind you he knows how to block and he play SFV Bison, who can litterally slide across half the terrain only using normals).

I don't think this comparison works as much as you think it does only for a single reason: animation and gravity. Street fighter may be a slower game, but it doesn't fall anywhere near the kind of game multiversus does mainly because everything in SF looks and feels heavy. All of the animations and hits are tight and impactful making it feel like each interaction actually has some level of push back. Multiversus looks, and feels like two kids on a trampoline wacking each other with balloons. The startup and pay off of every animation in the game is awful, even jumping. It's like the devs looked at how sora works in smash and went "yeah that's the kind of speed we want".

Unless drill is completely fresh (unusual unless it's the first attack of the stock) you can just shield grab. Nair shine is closer to what you were going for in your example.

in melee touch of deaths aren’t just won from one interaction, you will need to read your opponent multiple times, yes in melee characters explode but it’s from fast decisions from both players

The production quality on this video deserves more recognition, and your takes are quality.

I don't think it's only about the slowness of the gameplay when people talk about Multiversus' slowness, street fighter is slow paced but you've still got some action to watch and the movements and action feel more stiff than slow (the quick chains of moves to pressure a blocking oponent are visually quick), and when you get an opening you've got a shiny combo. While in Multiversus you're watching someone trying to run while being held to the bottom of a swimming pool by weights, it's super floaty and the movements feel slow, in street fighter you get to see the oponents face to face, searching for an opening, carefully approaching (the animation communicate this very well), in Multiversus you see them jumping around until one get an opening and then immediately back to normal, the only combos are either 2 move long or clanky af infinites. In Multiversus we don't get to see the war of attrition that plays in street fighter, partly because they choose to go for a plat fighter, and with the very free movement that comes with it.

I think a good way to satisfy more people with the speed of Multiversus is to add a perk that turns the dodge into more of a dash, so it would remove the I-frames but to compensate have the dodge be faster or go farther or make it have less lag or give the dodge infinite meter, or something valuable to compensate for losing your main defensive tool

"Melee is Marvel, Multiversus is Street Fighter" is such a succint way of saying it I felt like I grasped everything I needed off the video in the first five seconds. Personally I feel far more conscious of what both me and my opponent are doing, far more mindful of how to punish a whiff or wait for an opening than I usually feel in a Smash game.

For me the biggest problem with Multiversus is honestly character design. If you have no context for any of these characters there's a very good chance a lot of their best gameplans are some combination of jab, down air, up air, up special. It makes the game feel extremely stale when half the roster's win condition is some variation of a ladder combo with the top of the tier list getting their ladder kills at 40% and lower half killing off the top at 120%. There are 26 characters in the game as of the Joker patch and I'd say at least 20 of these characters primarily rely on this ladder combo.

I dont have an issue with the current GAME speed, i have an issue with current JASON speed (his attack & movement speed)... Along with his hitbox/hurtbox issues and the hitstun of his moves compared to the rest of the cast

I just wish MV was like 33% faster but I think everyone forgot how bad the jank/lag was when it was faster. Slower game must make the game a lot more stable.

Technically the first “juiced up” version of Street Fighter was Darkstalkers. That series became the bridge between traditional Street Fighter and turbo versus games which eventually gave us Children of the Atom, the start of the Versus series.

As a melee player, I actually like that theres an alternative platform fighter that rewards defense more, because every other platform fighter is either trying to be melee, or melee but slightly slower and with way worse punish game.

To be honest I prefer Multiversus when it was in beta mainly because I felt like I could do whatever I wanted when it came to movement, but with the full release of Multiversus I feel like I cant move even when I know an attack is coming, I cant play the way I want to play anymore, Them changing the speed of the game is to big of a change for me and because of that I don't think I can enjoy the game anymore.

I lowkey gave up on this game for some of the reasons you gave about the speed, but I think they gotta work on the balance and overall presentation of the game, I don't personally look to play it competitively so it simply doesn't provide as much as other games from a quality and balance standpoint. That doesn't really relate to this video much but I wanted to say it anyways great video awesome editing and I like how you discussed other games it's clear you didn't just make random assumptions and actually know about the competitive scenes.

Man I was grinding the hell out of the beta. After waiting a whole year for it to come back only to find it not even remotely close to the game I loved while also getting jammed full of insane MTX/PvE grinds just killed it for me. Have not touched the game past the first week of the relaunch.

I'm also going to put this out there the game was hard to follow. When watching matches it difficult to understand what the players were doing and I was someone who was playing the beta at the time. I can't imagine how someone who wasn't playing saw the game. The game needed to slow down and make characters lager for the more casual viewing audience and draw in more people now weather it would have succeeded in that or not is unknown because of the discussion around this very topic, some of the quality of life features being removed, and of course the monetization of the game we won't actually know.

good video, subscribed

i really enjoy movement in games and multiverse’s beta felt so fun and free to move in, now it feels stiff

MVS looked like it had great potential for whiff punishing, but there is a combination of factor (slow startup on most moves+ the odly little endlag on some specific random moves+ the hability to cancel part of the endlag with dodges) make the game devolve into a dodge spam fest were people just throw moves and dodge to cover them so in order to whiff punish (most of the time you won't) you have to just guess before they act, witch doesn't fit with the slower tipe of neutral. Aditionaly, the slow movement wakes it harder to deal with burst options (jump dashes and slides, mostly) in a way that devalorizes footsies.

Fire editing

I know little about Multiversus - this was pretty fun and informative :)

Super high quality video.

Another major underrated Multiversus video. It's too bad most people don't apparently realize not everything has to be like Smash Look what happened with Nick All-Stars 1

He did it bros

The speed in this game is alright. The beta speed for Multiversus felt right, so i still feel very fond of the speed of the game back then. I think my biggest gripe with the game when it comes to its speed is the inconsistencies with the hits. Marvels speed satisfaction works well as most of the moves that a character has will connect well with one another, thus leading to people being astonished by how well a fast paced game like Marvel or Smash Bros due to how combos and character traits impact the momentum of the game. As for Multiversus, a lot of moves are reactable, but then there are some moves that feel like they dont connect well at all with other moves, thus making the game play feel slow since a player will feel more inclined to use the same move due to the possibilities to land decent enough damage on another player being high. I feel this the most with Jason and Joker. With Joker, you'll get the same bait of a forward tilt and then the occasional one move mix up adds to the pacing of the game. Meanwhile Jason has a SHIT TON of moves that dont connect with the other player at all. Moves that are unnecessarily too slow. Moves that have a missing hitbox. I can write a whole list of Jasons weaknesses based on the pacing of the game. Basically, the speed of Multiversus does not have room for enticing mix ups or interesting gameplay moves as tons of characters, not just Jason or Joker exclusive, have paing issues with their moves that has players commit to the same formulaic combo which immensely slow down the game, making it feel very slow, thus unrewarding to play at a high level.

Love your videos man, keep up the good work.

The problem with Multivesus is that it was designed with focus on the speed first, and then changed it. Basically all the characters playstyles were based on that, and when they changed it, well, they basically made a big mess. Practically all characters have been "ruined" in a way, as their movesets arent meant for this new gameplay. Apart from this drastic change, theres another problem i have always mentioned. Platform fighters need lots of space and mobility, so a 2v2 platform fighter needs even more, so why reduce it? Yes, the game feels more like SF now, but it hasnt near the complexity of that game, as the core gameplay isnt based around that kind of gameplay. Edit: Apart from all this, as the other guys have said, good vid. You deserve way more followers man

I'm not sure that I agree that offense is strong at lower levels of melee. Basic defense like crouch cancelling exposes lots of players new to competitive melee

Brawlhalla making MV look like melee 🗣🗣🗣

I guess the main reason why I fell off MvS both times was the fact that there wasn't any consistency on who could be played as. It was the character rotation and monetization system that pushed me away. MvS's game speed could easily hit a great sweetspot. But until the developers make everybody from the base roster free to use (aka the folks from the initial beta roster up to Lebron) I don't see myself playing.

I always like to gush about melee cause once you figure out the pacing of the game and how to get out of pressure sequences you get... knowledge checked by somebody who's played the game 10 years more than you 😅

An important thing to note is that because of the nature of Multiversus' roster - namely, that characters are not all available from the outset and also the developers' goal to add a huge number of characters over time - it's dangerous to make gameplay to be too knowledge checky, because the learning curve will grow exponentially with each new character. Since each character also plays very differently, a game revolving around pure fundamentals won't work either. So things need to slow down.

I think a good compromise would be to increase ground and air movement speed across the board and as well increase base knockback on a lot of moves while decreasing scaling. That way combos feel more rewarding, there are less loops, and you still kill at around the same time. This is of course just speculation idk if that would actually work but it sounds nice to me.

What's the song in the mvc montage?

6:20 Multiversus would be pretty hard to play at a party since you only get like 2 characters without paying

Hey I love your channel and your MVS videos! I was someone who thought the speed change was weird when Multiversus first came out but then I got slightly used to it, all I want is for the input buffer to be fixed 😭

Game is a bit worse than beta because Freedom of movement is gone, along with different fighting styles each character had. Game is slower but less rewarding with way too much hitstun There are characters that are just not fun to fight, not because they are good, but because this game doesn't address the advantage dodge distance gives certain characters, making then safe.

Multiversus's physics honestly feel awful Feels like im controlling a hot air balloon that is being weighed down by a shotput

Hoenstly, i really enjoy the new speed! Watching old gameplay make the characters seem like flys fighting. I feel like it's easier to understand what is happening in the new speed, and it's way more satisfying to do attacks.

Great vid as always

Nick All-stars 1 changed physics & DI multiple times in the early patches & it felt like the developers lacked a clear vision for the final game It also fragmented the playerbase, similarly to what's happened with multiverses

please please please keep doing these types of videos. since core-a gaming hasnt uploaded in over a year ive been wanting more essay fighting game content that is also new player friendly. while this channel is primarily multiverses focused, id love more videos that mention other fighting games too like this one

Don't forget the input buffer being way too high. You can't even change it anymore. I KEEP DOING RANDOM ASS EXTRA BUTTONS 2 DAYS LATER

A games speed can also entirely depend on the matchup, for sonic the fighters the character i main bark is the character that requires a significant amount of spacing to work effectively, and while every character requires that quite alot bark requires some of the most out of the cast other than the zoners, and the fastest character with the most shmovement is sonic (crazy am i right) so its like im trying to fight a fast game character while im in a slow game character, keep in mind sonic the fighters is a more slow game than most and reading is heavily important, so sonic isnt too bad but bark doesnt make it easy.

Always enjoy the videos. However, I would make sure to really watch the video as you're finalizing the edit. There were quite a few spelling and grammatical mistakes that were really noticable.

This made me think about Rivals of Aether

the characters just don’t feel as good to move around and fight with compared to a smash type game, i can’t really explain why they fell heavy but light

0:27 drive rush has entered the chat

I think instead of SF6, when you are talking about how street fighter is 'slow' - there should be a footage of SF4, or SF2. Because drive rush (and drive impact a bit) made it so that Reaction to the green slime into strike/throw, is required almost from halfscreen away.

It’s a bit slow for a platform fighter, but walk speed in a traditional fighter is even slower

So I know this is a ME problem but I get alot of input lag like I use lebron James's should err tackle without his basketball (side special) and for some reason, the game makes it to where I have to use my dodge to get out the side special where he does the dunk. This punishes me and before I know it, I run out of dodges and basically what I'm trying to say is that I wish the input lag wasn't so heavy as well as a LITTLE more dodges like 3 more? Idk

I think the new speed is a huge improvement. I played a ton of the beta, but i'm enjoying the game a lot more now. I like whiff punishing and mindgames

Someone actually speaking facts about the game? Thank GOD.

you sure know your stuff, great video dude...that mvc soundtrack brings me to somewhere special XD all i thought of was that head bobbing cat meme

Multiversus is way too slow for me. Each attack, even the jabs, are a full animation production showcase instead of a functional button press attack. And not all of the attacks have a tanky impact to pay off for their anticipation and release. It's like you really have to plan ahead which attack you'll, and then put yourself in place, instead of fluidly moving in where you want, and then attacking the moment you press a button. Not talking about button lag, a complete 1/3 of second of anticipation after a button press kind of slow.

I love the intention and commitment for the full release. I prefer being able to punish vs constantly dodge spamming

Thank you! I really like the beta and while I did find it more fun I think its in a better state now for fairness.

nice

The comparison to old MVS and new with Street Fighter is a great way to put it. I struggled to define why I like new MVS compared to the old one, and I think you nailed it. Great video.

Lethal League: Blaze is a good Fighter. It’s fun, simple, fast pace and a good time with friends.

When talking about the actual speed of a fighting game you can't just consider movement speed, you also have to consider attack speed. The fastest possible attacks in games like Soulcalibur and it's lesser brother, Tekken, clock in at MAYBE 10 frames (0 frames if we're talking about throws in Virtua Fighter) but 10 frames is how long it takes for Ken's "slow" Heavy Punch to hit the opponent while his crouching Medium Kick is only 7 frames. It's like this because when the developers rereleased the same game as SFII Turbo they just cranked up the speed of the game past what it was actually designed for because too many people played a hacked, broken version called Rainbow Edition and realized the actual game was slow and unfun. In summary, SF is both too slow AND too fast.

i love marbles capcom

I’ll be lucky if anyone even reads this but indirectly I think faster games are better if a faster games means plink ground and air dash in marvel, wave dash in melee or Korean crouch dash and side stepping in tekken then a faster game is funner but I see it as a game with freer movement

I appreciate the marvel compilation.

I cant tell if you're lying or were just misinformed but you said a lot of untrue stuff with regards to fighting games lol. My problem with multiversus has barely anything to do with the speed. I'm one of the 3 guys who liked brawl. Its the weird hitboxes combined with the floatiness buffer and burst ranges. It creates situations where, on paper you just made a massive commitment, but in practice you are more or less unpunishable and it feels insane to watch. even higher level games will have segements of people swinging for their fucking lives and just kind of missing, while also being unable to get a clean wiff punish. in response. I respect the slowdown because the flailing FELT much much worse in beta, but slowing it down just makes it look as bad as it used to feel.

I've played everything from rivals to brawlhalla, skullgirls to street fighter, so honestly, Game speed isn't important to me as long as the game is fun, and Multiversus is pretty fun to me. I think I have more fun with it now than I did in beta, but beta had cooler combos which I do miss, but I also didn't like getting hit by said combos, so I'll take the trade off!

The best defense in Marvel is not being there in the first place.

I really like this vid as somebody who plays multiple fighting games, my thing is tho while recently playing sf6, guilty gear and tekken multiversus don't feel like a real fighting game. It's more of "choose a good character or get beat" which is normal cause every character nit the same but multiversus is absurd

Best fighting game of all time: Your Only Move is Hustle

New speed is whatever to me. I played Smash 4 and enjoyed it. What I can’t get past is how much of a slog it feels to play anyone after getting so used to the speed of the beta.

I mean what matters in the end is if people have interest in watching/playing the game, and so far it's not looking good. Niche genre already.

Where does brawlhalla go if compared to traditional fighters?

I hate how GG Strive destroyed the pace it had by adding wild assault 💀

correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m surprised no fighting game has ever had an option to adjust the game speed to fit people’s preferences. It seems really obvious yet it hasn’t happened yet.

This vid is great! Love the style

Let's go gambling!

I preferred how some of the characters were in the old version, but prefer the current speed of the new version.

4:27 why are both players using the same team?

Strive is really slow, honestly. It's still a well made game and I see why younger players like it, but it is slow and clunky by compared to predecessors. Its a fun game but it has a few issues and bad quirks but to go with what you said, slower doesn't mean worse and my issues with Strive and hardly just it being slower. I didn't play Multiversus then and still haven't now but what you said does explain the discourse between players well. I'll try it sooner or later.

Not the point you're trying to make by showcasing a game run by drive rushes and throws that deal 1/8 of a heath bar while the defender is highly disadvantaged compared to the aggressor. Even 5, or 3S are lightning paced compared to an actually slow fighting game like SF4.

I appreciate the thoughtful video, but even as someone that values slower, more neutral-based games, release-Multiversus feels pretty awful. I think the slower speed compounds many of Multiversus' problems, like the (compared to other fighting games) lousy gamefeel.

Man... multiversus is dookie

good work

I hate the current speed. The game feels underwater and super defensive. Like optimal play for some of the fast chars is just running around waiting to someone presses something to punish. The game looks really bad now too. We dont need to back to old speed but probably need to go to at least 1,25 (even hits look way cleaner at that speed on youtube). If we go to 1,25 speed and give players more tech and movement options I think we will be fine. Since outsmooving your opponent is literally the appeal of a platform fighter. Stuff like a dash and shorthop macro, a button to hold to sink through platforms and wavedash/land would help a lot. Also if your momentum would be better preserved. But keep the current dodge system, burnout adds to the game same for the old attack decay. Like I stopped playing since the current game is unenjoyable to me, but would be willing to try out a sped up version. Otherwise its just waiting for Rivals 2. And you failed to miss that the current speed was the number critique and feedback by most streamers and on the reddit itself, even as stated by the mods.

before eve caring about anything in melee i would love to be able to move ithout banging my head on the horible contorls and iexistant buffer of the 25 year old game. lik yeah its amazing but its so much of a headache to just have fun movig around in the first place

Yea sure ignore darkstalkers and how a lot of the versus series and alpha series are built on it

Not a bad video. Honestly well done on the coverage. I love Melee. I loved it as a kid but i cant go back to it much. The feeling of the game felt trashy to me. I feel the later games have that feeling of "completion" when i touch melee it just feels off and i HAVE TO learn thr garbage to remotely hang with my friends or against Randoms to enjoy it. I live watching it but i hate playing it now. It's not the same for me when it comes to playing MVC as a series. I can play them all and they feel great. Besides minor oddities that I don't like but none of them hindered me as much. I don't have to learn certain techniques that might give me carpal tunnel or make my hands feel uncomfortable. I can just play the game. Unlike Melee Heck The fact Melee got patched and then majority of the player base dislike it because they are used to the Main version That has all the Broken Garbage in it does say a lot about the game. In a weird way it's strength. (The broken stuff allowed them to push the game as far as it did and made some characters who would be average or bad if those options are gone. Them being there adds more to the game...heck it adds more life to the characters as well. Learning new tech in melee is always treated like a big deal especially an upset someone finding new info to make a meta shake up is also cool. A lot of stuff in Melee is not intended even by Sakurai's own words. But thanks to its circumstances. It became the juggernaut that it is known today. Sorry if my comment came off a bit random rambling. Just sharing my thoughts.

Banger video, the official Discord server GLAZES the Beta so hard and it's unreal.. you try to tell them "Hey it used to be just dodge spam central and you couldn't punish stuff properly, this is a much better speed" And then they just scream "SKILL ISSUE" at you and it's really obnoxious.

Very wise, balanced take. Great vid!

I don't think speed of the game is a problem, but it's about how end lag feels. I personally have a problem with how long it feels, but speed of the game is fine no preblems there.

Great video I actually had the same thoughts about the speed in Multiversus. I'm usually more into faster traditional fighters (MVC2). But for a platform fighter I think player first nailed it with the speed. I really like the peekaboo play style and I find it incredibly rewarding landing a whiff punish or a big hit for a kill after properly spacing a move.

so what your'e saying is that Yugioh is literally mvc