The State Of Magic: The Gathering Secret Lairs 

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I like how The Prof always approaches cards as game pieces and not as an investment first and foremost. I will always advocate that the base version of a card should be affordable then some chase version for the investors/speculators.

The story about the artist's picks being veto'd because of "too much value" basically reveals the "secret" of Secret Lairs. While we know very well what WotC is doing, outright blocking choices because of value concerns tells you that current market value of a Lair is what matters to Wizards the most. And that, obviously, is to try and get their cut of the secondary market. What matters to them isn't getting needed reprints into the hands of players. What matters to them is taking a slice away from speculators/investors as WotC deems that money to be rightfully theirs from the start. They do not care if the value of a Lair is abysmal; they only care if the value is "too high." Outside of licensed properties being turned into Magic cards (something I think never should have happened), it costs WotC the same amount to print a basic land as it does to print a Dockside Extortionist or whatever else. They're more concerned with the difference in resale value, considering it to be money that's "lost" instead of printing cool alternate art for in-demand, expensive game pieces. MTG has become a "game second, profits first" endeavor and I hate it.

As a baby in Magic the Gathering(6-8 months in), I’ve only known secret lairs; that said. They can be cool, but also mental. I’m looking at you 5 basic lands for 30-40$.

A secret lair with 5 swords would be SO AWESOME. Also it’d be an incredible opportunity to get to draw really any full iconic cycle

The secret lairs aren’t so secret anymore

I'm only 23 now, but I started playing MTG in 2014 (I was 14 at the time). I don't really play anymore and MAN this video and the current state of magic and how drastically it changed over the last 5 years is wild. I feel "old" and the Magic I knew Is barely what it used to be.

These should be called “Office Hours.” When it is just reviews of the industry

When I came back to MGT in 2018 after not playing since 8th grade, everything was almost the same. Fat Packs were now bundles and there were things like PW decks and "Commander" decks once a year, but pretty much everything was still recognizable. Almost as soon as I came back though, everything started going NUTS XD and here we are

Secret Lairs really are just the From The Vault series at home.

This cutting out cards from a set to make a secret lair is an issue.

It is crazy that after 4 years there's still no standard. I think it just boils down to people keep buying, so they'll keep selling whatever, and however, they want. I absolutely believe the minimum should be 5. Blows my mind seeing a 3 card SL being alongside a 10 card SL each for the same prize

i wish people at wotc could watch this and take notes. prof always have good advice 😘

From the Vault: Transform was easily the best FTV they ever did, almost entirely because it was full of double-faced cards, and therefore the only one that never curled, and therefore the easiest one to actually use.

FTV Lore also comes with one of my favorite life counter dice, it looks like a dark blue and black swirl, but if you hold it up in a bright light, the black is actually dark smoky clear plastic. And the scroll-castle icon on it is so great.

Since they're direct to consumers, basic land secret lairs should be sold piecemeal: you pay a flat rate of, say, $1 per card, minimum of $5 + S&H, with discounts for multiples of 10. I'd love to deck out all my decks in my favorite Secret Lair lands, but I'm not buying 20 copies just for the 2 colors I would use for a given deck.

The princess bride is the way I would like secret lair to be. Right price point right amount of cards and used as a skin of existing cards Hopefully they feel that they were rewarded enough by the fan base to do it again.

I had the good fortune of working with John Avon on a card game project (that sadly never saw the light of day) but he’s an absolutely fantastic artist and just a great human being, and I’m glad to see he got his own secret lair. His art is just fantastic, his Invasion Island in particular has been one of my favorites for years now.

The basic land Secret Lair boxes should have a lot more than 1 of each land for a whopping $30 price tag. They could easily do 20 of each and still make a lot of money.

When I saw the "Through the Wormhole" set, I was excited and wanted to purchase my first ever Secret Lair. Unfortunately, when I asked my LGS, after taxes, shipping, and then conversion to AUD (I am Australian) it was going to cost me over $100. As much as I love the art, I can't justify 5 cards for more than an entire Pre-con Commander deck.

I remember playing Dark Ascension Game Day with friends at their LGS. When the store was selling From the Vault Legends at MSRP, I left the store with not only a copy, but also the knowledge that I'd have been glad to lend my loyalty to them were I more local.

Secret lairs are for those who adore them. A Counterspell from Mercadian Masks is special enough for me. Or the shock lands from the first Ravnica set. I like the rusticality of old cards more.

If they want to do something neat without adding any additional cost on the back end, how about the Artist Series be four cards of the artist's choice (within reason), one bonus card (the sketch card they included with the Avon SL is a good style) and reprints of five of their classic cards, selected from their entire output as Magic artists, with the SL set symbol? So, for John Avon, we could see Emrakul, Progenitus, Brainstorm, Serra Angel, Sketch Brainstorm, and a set of the five Unstable lands with the SL symbol. For Rebecca Guay, in addition to the contents of that SL (I didn't get it, so I don't know the bonus card in it) but for the five bonus cards, maybe select Wonder, Path to Exile, Elvish Piper, Angelic Renewal, and Mulch (just picking five reasonably useful cards that aren't Bitterblossom, since WOTC would probably never do that.) That takes it from being less than a standard lair to more than one, without adding additional art commissions or turnaround time; I presume if WOTC is doing Artist Series: someone, they have the capacity to reprint that someone's art without running into royalty issues.

I remember reading an interview with John Avon about his Secret Lair, and I believe that he only signed up to do the 4 cards due to his needing a good deal more time to do commissioned art due to his increasing age and being much slower to make artwork these days.

As someone who learned to play magic about 12 years ago, and recently came back to the game in the last two years, secret lairs were actually confusing to me at first. I didn't understand exactly what they were and what the point of them was. That being said, I've purchased the princess bride one and I love it. It's one of my favorite movies ever. Being a wrestling fan when I was young Andre the Giant meant a lot to me. Getting to play Andre on a magic card is amazing to me. These are premium products for the collectors out there that want them. I probably won't purchase another one, only purchasing the ones that really speak to me for what they are. And that's fine.

I also got the Princess Bride Foil and slotted them into KMC perfect fits. Extremely extremely tight. Had to put a book ontop to weigh them down and flatten them out, worked though, the cards are fine and the sleeves stretched well.

Be sure to also watch our new Commander episode with Maldhound! Maldhound's Commander Gets Roasted: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-VtiHGSLLphI.html

As a Planeswalker collector, I typically only buy a Secret lair if is has 2 or more planeswalkers in it or if it resonates with me in a special way (Transformers). I bought all of the FTV as they were released, mostly through my LGS, and mostly for MSRP. Those were the good old days.

That Brion Stoutarm combo is evil, Prof. Genius, but eeee-vil.

I live in Canada and they're still not worth it with exchange and shipping. I just pretend they don't exist, makes life simpler.

Yoji shinkawa remains my favorite secret lair. I love his art, have a nostalgia for his work, and all the cards were infinitely useful and playable, I wish I had bought 4, and as a total sum, was basically the same as buying other versions aftermarket. Kev Walker is one of my favorite magic artists, but it was a weird moment looking at his secret lair and just had no desire to buy it. After so many secret lairs nickel and diming optimal value, the joy and draw that SL should be for was already gone. It sucks. It's not the artists fault, it's purely wizards and the product burnout.

Earlier this year when I got into MTG, what's the very first thing I saw when I went to their site? SL's. So of course I thought that this is a special limited edition item that WOTC would sell to collectors and would be really cool to have. Little did I know that half of them are lands and artist series, and the other half are really random and possibly a terrible value.

A return to MSRP would be great.

You know what I love most about Princess Bride? The movie. Universes Beyond and Secret Lairs can be wiped from the face of the earth as far as I’m concerned.

You can FINALLY play Andre the Giant as your commander. LOVE IT LOVE IT LOVE IT. BOSS AS MY COMMANDER

I wish these small boxes were slightly larger so we can put Oversized cards in them (Planes, Schemes, Big Commanders). It’s basically impossible to find good boxes for them and the small secret lair boxes are infuriatingly, barely too small for them

Man, I remember From the Vaults, I think what ended those was Relics when they put Mox Diamond and Memory Jar in it, really sent people up in arms

The only Secret Lair I've purchased is the upcoming Doctor Who one because I want to complete my Doctor collection with 14 and 15. I was somewhat tempted on the John Avon one, since he's my favourite MtG artist, but ultimately didn't want to spend that much on four/five cards I wasn't going to do anything with at all.

Seems like those John Avon cards could have atleast been full art to show off the artwork a bit more?

Honestly, the princess bride set is one of the few I’ve felt bummed about not remembering to order

For me secret lairs have become far too bloated and have seemingly lost direction in some places. Don't get me wrong in some places they've done great, mostly when it comes to the Universe beyond stuff but other than that with the basic land sets and just the really random ones they can do far better. For example the artist sets have a set budget involved with them on what cards they can put in so you end up with this really weird mix of cards in them. Obviously Wizards isn't going to let one secret lair have a load of valve over another but I do think there's got to be better ways to do it. Maybe something like giving an Artist a theme\tribal to play with, so you end up with a playset of cards that you'll likely run in a deck together.

I don't like how tight that is going in.... Good video prof

Now knowing that info about From the Vault, I feel damn lucky that I managed to get Transform for MSRP at my LGS. Last time I checked, that set is still worth much much more than I paid for it.

If Universes Beyond attracts new players that would never have been interested in the game otherwise, the it is strict positive in the game. I highly doubt it will cause anyone to leave the game (though I could be wrong). And I have heard of people becoming interested in the game because of WH40k, LotR, Dr. Who, and now Fallout. And even other ones I'm sure I'm forgetting that have very big fan bases. It's not for everyone, but it will be for someone and that's why I love Universes Beyond. I don't like Dr. Who, but it will never ruin my experience watching someone else enjoy the game I enjoy so much.

When you said secret lairs came out four years ago I had to sit down to process that information.

As far as MSRP goes even big box stores are having products be at different values. I've seen the ixalan decks have as much as a 30 dollar variance across the commander precons

THe main reason Foils from sets became valuable is a) Foils were VERY hard to come by. One in ever 14 packs or so, and also, people PLAYED things without sleeves back in those days. b) Current packs give foils every pack for set boosters, and will keep that in the upcoming play packs, and there's 4 common, 3 uncommon in collector boosters. Collector boosters should either have less common and uncommon foils, or have ONLY alt art or full art for those slots.

Battle of wits isn't banned in commander!

Me: "Who is JLK?" Prof: "...with triple sriracha sauce..." Me: "Oh...howzit"

Waiting for mine to get delivered today

I worked in WotC's Sales Department in the era of From the Vault. The purpose of the product was to be a "thank you" to our WPN network, and the MSRP was in place because Wizard's wholesale pricing policy was a % of stated MSRP, and thus they paid less making the product a functional reward for participation in the WPN. I often wish Wizards had replaced it with something else to support the store network, because it makes their current lines of store appreciation ring severely hollow to me.

Yeah, I demand Commander Collection White, Blue and Red.

Secret Lairs should be print to demand but only purchasable by authorized Magic retailers. There should be a solid month preorder window for players to go to their LGS to have them put in their order and pick up their order on arrival. That way players are encouraged into the LGS, the price is online, the price to the LGS is $5 less than what's posted online, and everybody goes home happy. Given the unified artistic vision of Magic sets for over 20 years, many artists' particular flourishes are diminished, and Secret Lairs are a wonderful showcase to express those artists' talents. I'd love to see Secret Lair themes outside of what's been done, such as: "Oops, Our Bad" as a discounted Secret Lair with cards that had been misprinted on release with their proper oracle text. "Times, They Are A Changing" with cards that have been errata'd heavily since their release with their current oracle text "Almost a Card" with just tokens of various types, all with new art.

I think it would be interesting to have a secret lair that's all of the tokens that never actually got printed tokens

I agree with mostly everything the Prof laments about here. I even miss the "premium deck series" as well, with Graveborn being my absolute favorite. It's what really harkened me into the Re-animator architype.

I’m here for the Josh Lee Kwai jabs in the ad spaces. 😂 Sounds like he loves them too based on what he said during their Whatnot stream, so it makes them even more fun.

These are my favorite videos on this channel, the Prof just says whatever he's thinking as he goes through some cards

The way you talk about that Battle of Wits is adorable ❤

I remember picking up From the Vaults: Angels. Never regretted it. Thanks for that nostalgia trigger!

My best friend and I began playing MTG this summer but it’s content creators such as yourself that have made me so passionate about the game. Keep up the great work, I love tuning into your channel!

Grabbed one as a gift and it arrived damaged. Its been 11 days since I contacted customer service and I still havnt heard back from them. First and last time I get a secret lair...

One of my favorite videos. I listened to this whole walking around my neighbourhood looking at Christmas lights. Thanks prof

I'm an oldie who's back in the hobby. Generally loving the formate (though I didn't buy anything yet)! It's expensive but democratizing things and giving WOTC a way to reprint stuff straight to our hands. From an art perspective, I feel like the IP partnerings are all over the place in art quality, some good some horrible. Where it's at for me it the rad off-mtg-flavor illustrators like the hydras. Such a cool way to introduced fun alternative available art without breaking the core brand style. To have boxes and the likes well designed is a no-brainer for a "premium product". Same as buying an (easy example but) apple product, or a nice car, the experience goes beyond the card itself. It's everything from the ease of use of the website selling it to you, to the opening etc.

Hot take: Hasbro's clearly unsustainable management of MTG is a sign of company-wide desperation and when MTG/WotC dies, so too will Hasbro.

As someone who also bought the Princess Bride series . . . . I have to say I was so amazed with the amazing job they did with the property, cards, and flavor. Absolutely immaculate.

Thank you Prof and respective editors for the videos :) Really appreciate them.

I don’t know if I’ve heard of the “Artist Series: John Avon”. Are you talking about Secret Lair: Literally just an Emrakul?

Prof, I'm sure many others have said this, but I should let you know that Battle of Wits is entirely legal in commander. It just is impossible to trigger it without dipping into Unmander or even Unorthodox. Which I encourage you to try out!

wow the Brainstorm sketch in foil genuinely looked incredible, rare case of a foil actually adding to the card

I have the kelogsloops secret lair framed and on my wall, same with the Frank Frazetta. The kelogsloops one I actually bought the Exploration for my landfall deck off cardmarket and the secret lair version just happened to be the cheapest one on cardmarket. I fell in love with the art and ended up replacing the Retreat To Coralhelm with Kelogsloops version as well. Once I learnt more about magic and Secret Lairs, about a year later, I pulled the trigger and got the whole secret lair to frame as I just adore them as art pieces. Having doubles in my deck I can actually use is a lovely bonus.

This felt like opening MTG product with Mr. Rogers. So calming. I really enjoyed it.

Gotta be honest I love having Jeff Goldblum cards but I doubt I’ll be happy with most stuff coming !

The angel secret lair deck is still my favorite deck to use, so worth the $150

“How would you like your breakfast burrito, sir?” “Howzit… extra howzit.”

Secret Lair delivery times are fine… in the US. For UK and EU we still have to wait MONTHS for most drops to arrive. The only exception I’ve found is with the commander decks.

Going to be making a "good guys story" deck with Tom Bombadil as the commander. Will include some of the Dr's, Ash and these where Tom just tells stories using them as the "good guys".

I like that, judging by the code Factor gave The Prof, TCC is Factor's little pogchamp.

I got the John Avon one because the guy is an amazing artist and person plus I needed the emerakul

If I had known how frequently wizzards would be printing and pushing secret lairs, how they were intending to make cards outside of MTG IP's and print unique cards. I would have never bought as many of the first secret lairs as I did. I bought at least one of each, and I regret it to this day.

I remember when secret lairs came out and I was super excited to get a bunch of sweet cards In new art. But I have only bought one secret lair being the yoji shinkawa drop. Dont get me wrong I love that set but I wish I was interested in the others. It feels like wotc underselling lgs by selling cards directly for market price.

I've bought 3 secret lairs this year, personally I dont think their that bad. If you like the art on a secret lair then buy ut. the problem is some people want to buy all the secret lairs but arent in a place to do so, and while its true thats a problem with this hobby just in general I'd still say capitalizing on fomo isnt healthy.

That was the best Factor ad you’ve done thus far :D

Another exciting installment of old man shouts at clouds

I bought a From the Vault: Angels at GenCon this year as a treat for myself, and I really wish they'd bring them back. It was such a fun thing to open, and the box is gorgeous. It just felt luxurious in a way that Secret Lairs don't

I remember lining up really early at the wizards booth PAX for a From the Vault, I think they were selling them, and there were like 20. When they opened up, They said they were sold out, come to find they sold them before the convention opened form the day. Man, i was so bummed. They never really found a way to make it something not to be mad about.

Me casually FREAKING OUT AS THE CARB BENT A LITTLE BEING PUT IN ITS SLEEVE. Me also thinking maybe I dont have to be as careful when sleeving my cards

I have a copy of this printing of Glissa the traitor, and I can confirm that it has the most eye catching foil treatment in my entire collection.

8:43 .. Needed a "That's what she said." 😆

That foil brainstorm looks awesome!!

I had a lot of conversations about FTV/MSRP back in the day with people who simply didn't think it was possible/reasonable for game stores to sell a limited edition allocated releases at MSRP. At the time I was working at a record shop dealing with what was almost the exact same thing for the record world; Record Store Day, which is limited edition/allocated reprints of records. The way RSD stopped stores from price gouging is that stores signed an agreement that said they wouldn't sell above MSRP. Stores that did sell above MSRP would be cut off from future releases. Yes it is a somewhat punishment based solution, but just the fear of being cut off is enough to stop 90% of price gouging. The agreement had other things too, like not selling the releases online until a few days after release day, so that just flipping the releases online is disincentivized. Stores didn't have to price gouge FTV, they chose to, and that created ill will with the product line.

Hit me back when they do another commander deck, Secret Lair.

I managed to get a playset of those phyrexian processors in that printing for a steal because they were so curly

I bought my first Secret Lair a few weeks ago. It's the Hydra one. I've always liked hydras, and I've been thinking about making a commander deck themed around them, so it seemed like a decent purchase. I'm happy with it. The art is wild 😂

Battle of Wits is legal in commander, albeit impossible outside of rule 0 to win. A fun "un" way to do it is with Claire D'Loon, Joy Sculptor.

So in the past year, I only picked up two, three if we're counting when I got in Primes Vs Megatron, Secret Lairs. One was just because I was a fan of the IP and a blight steel, one was cause it was an upgrade for cards I used a lot, and the other was cause the front and center card had an interesting mechanic. I'm on the boat of fewer products but focus on quality. I want there to be a big impact when a secret lair is announced. While it's cool that we get things like Evil Dead, Artist Spotlights, and other IPs, a lot of them just seem to be set up as "We have X IP, so you X fans should buy this." Now as someone who works at the TCG counter of the comic book store I work at, I would love it if WotC sent us Secret Lair products for our customers to pick up or LGS exclusives to help get people into the store. I've had a few new players come in asking for secret lair products but not really understand that it's a direct ship from WotC. Though in the past couple of months, they have allowed our distributor to send some Secret Lairs in, but it's not really anything people would want to pick up. Cause at the end of the day the people who do play paper magic will go to their LGS to get their cards.

The simplest way to 'enforce' MSRP is to not limit print runs. Let an LGS order as many as needed - and do second and third printings if they keep selling. Have an agreement that only stores who agree to MSRP are able to order. The only reason stores are able to upcharge is because of limited supply.

I wish we could somehow find out what the printruns were... if they would only release those... even after 1 or 2 years, we would know the "pop" count and therefore value and impact. 🤘🎅🤘

The foil Sketch Brainstorm looks like Ghost Rare from YuGiOh, such a cool aesthetic really.

i love your channel. i do have to say, i absolutely adore my jurassic world secret lairs, and i dont regret purchasing them in the least. theyre gorgeous, and they perfectly slide right into my recently-acquired veloci-ramp-tor. i only wish they had added in a JW command tower for good measure. gotta keep up with that thematic goodness, ya know? i came back to magic back in january after the better part of two decades, after my friends convinced me of the merits of commander, which when i had stopped was more or less an unofficial format with no set-in-stone rules for real. i grabbed a WH40K precon, and got to building decks and getting more precons, and the jurassic world SLs were the first SLs i threw down on, mostly due to nostalgia and love for the parent property jurassic park, and partly to how good they looked. i was not disappointed in the slightest, and theyre quite lovely to behold. just think: 6 cards(including polyraptor!) for the price of 1 polyraptor, AND the art is gorgeous, AND they fit RIGHT into the new veloci-ramp-tor precon? i was doomed from the start. and i do not regret it. i do agree with your idea of them sending some of the SLs to LGSes, and then shortly thereafter posting them on the site. personally, id go with a week, maybe two, before posting them on the site. and possibly allow certified LLGSes to buy them at a SLIGHT discount, so they can at least turn a little profit. gotta support them LGSes, ya know, but you also gotta keep em a little honest. anyway, sorry for the rambling, and thanks for showing off those lovely box sets.

I have my Bob Ross lands, foil and not, framed in my office. I have no regrets on that specific SL. Personally, I don’t buy secret lair cards that I won’t or can’t play. I don’t like paying for something I can’t show off.