The Story of Seahenge 

I always thought it was the incest

To be fair, 4000 year old wood also was the most interesting thing in Greek mythology, so i'd say you're on the right track to greatness. ... _Or crippling child support depending on which lesson you draw from this._

Ah i live in norfolk as well. A different norfolk.

Stonehenge isn't as old as the other monuments in the rest of the British Isles and Ireland but it is still 6000 years old so surely 6000 years old rock is the most interesting thing in the entire country England is a very boring s******* also being from Norfolk you're probably inbred tell your sister wife and uncle husband I said hello lol nfn

@@alexisleskinen9870 Hello fellow Norfolk person, even if it's not the English one. :)

I’d buy that and tell everyone I know.

YESS

Milo, get on this ASAP

I'd buy it

if I saw someone wearing this shirt I would hurt them

The Elgin Marbles are only in the british museum because mr. Elgin was short of cash. They were lying in his garden gathering moss. He wasn’t even an archaeologist, he was just a vandal. There was a recent discussion between the British Museum and a Greek counterpart about loaning them to the Greek museum but this was firmly quashed when the prime minister insisted on turning it into a diplomatic incident (for no good reason I will add.)

@@intergalactic92 it's a discussion that's been going on since at least the 80s. The big sticking point was that Greece lacked the facilities to house and store them properly (ignoring how the BM treated them). So Greece spent a pile of money building a state of the art museum to house them, and even show as they're supposed to be, not like how they are at the British. And in true British fashion, they moved the goal posts. The notion of lending them back to Greece is insulting. It's like if a guy steals your car and then let's you rent it back to drive around occasionally. They know if they give them back, all the other countries the British robbed would be demanding their stuff back.

Cry about it (eats chip)

@@tigerspirit1917 Greeks should just pull off an "Italian Job"-style heist, break into the British Museum and take back their marbles. Steal from the rich and all that... What is it about the British culture and stealing?

​@@tigerspirit1917 'typical British fashion' I'm british, Greece can have them back. Wanna stop throwing around generalisations?

“Fuck you” -miniminuteman

Obligatory profanity-laced come-uppance.

Oh wow look!... it's a different time now

@@Stoplooking69 oh look its a different time now!

Wow look its a different time now

I believe “sky burials” are a real thing in the Himalayas, if you want to do more research.

They're called excarnation platforms.

look up zoroastrian towers of silence ;)

@@sleepingbee8997 That's what my mind instantly went to! Sky burial would be an excellent explanation.

good ol sky burial :-)

Damn, really? I thought arachæologists had to stay celibate

10:50

þ

@@marshmallowbird6030 th

,

Given the terrible history of destruction of ancient sites by 'local communities' in the UK, there is zero logic in allowing the local contemporary population to have a veto on what is a world heritage site. The best interests of all humanity, for all time, trump what the neighbours have to say.

In this case leaving it where it was would inevitable have destroyed it

perhaps that is true, but they rushed this and were so incredibly arrogant about what they were doing and towards locals who opposed it. They also did it in sucha hurry, it was gone before they could see any destruction by the sea.

@@dorianleakey you are assuming the one-sided argument from the video is true and the whole truth, did the locals oppose it, did a majority oppose it or just a couple and 1 journalist

Huh. I'd assumed that the bird conservationists just *really wanted* the tourists gone. Good to know.

Thanks for this information. I was already wondering if this was part of the coast with this erosion. So the removal was the best thing to do. A Dutch author wrote a novel where this erosion played an important role.

​@jannetteberends8730 it was the only the best thing for the historical organizations. As Milo put it amazingly, contemporary archaeologists often think they have a right to every site when they do not. If the locals didn't want it gone it should never have been removed. Even if it would have been lost from erosion so what? Not everything is meant to last forever.

So the true king of England is back and no one is making a big deal about it?

@@HushSkunk There's a few of them knocking around

Cool! Thanks!

@@williamchamberlain2263 did any of them have a scimitar lobbed at them by a moistened bint?

God I love Brits. Y'all are fucking hilarious.

They had to move it because it was being destroyed by the sea. No monument = no chance to learn anything about it.

@@jonathonsmith8299 idk about that, it survived the sea for at least 1,000 years

@@jakel2837 It didn't survive the sea for 1000 years, it was built in an inland marsh, which the sea has eroded. It only became visible because the protective anaerobic muds had recently been stripped away by wave action. You can look at Historic England's report on Holme 2, which documents its deterioration in the last few years, a fate which would have befallen Sea Henge if it hadn't been removed.

Argument from incredulity. Just because YOU can't understand it, doesn't mean it doesn't make sense.

they just wanted it.

He came off as very dismissive to the Pagan/Druidic communities

@@METALGEARMATRIX He did still defend their legitimacy though, which seems to be a rarity. It's wild how many people outright deny the legitimacy of modern Neopagan and Wiccan sects.

@@METALGEARMATRIX They don't really have any skin in the game on this issue - they're modern religions mostly rooted in the new age movement, and with no more connection to ancient sacred sites than anyone else in the country.

@@arfived4 There are some of us that try to model our worship off the ancient ways, hard to do when it was purposefully subverted and erased

@@histori6259 Yes, that is true. Its alittle refreshing. He doesn't understand but he at least respects the practioners

Surely you can stop being a student if youve been at it since ancient times and start teaching? Your english is great by the way.

These r the comments I live for

*megawood*

​@@dorianleakeyWhy did you comment on their English proficiency?

​@Good_Hot_Chocolate so the joke is that by "ancient greek student" the original commenter meant a student who studies ancient greek, however the response purposely misinterpreted it as a student whom was an immortal ancient greek person, for humorous effect. If that were true English wouldn't be their first language

🎶“There’s no place like London”. 🎶

Having a pub within it is a definite benefit

Plus the weird shops @@desmo750f1

Glad I’m not the only one 😂

I prefer Carnac, but ok.

I used to drive through here every day to and from work.

Damn, if that ain't the truth.

I don't quite understand, I agree it's an atrocity but what does the time-honored part mean?

@@prayingmantis8148 "this thing is great because we've done it for so long"--basically

@@harlequingnoll5 So it's an atrocity to time-honoured artifacts? I was thinking it was something like "you think that the present is more important than the past but the future will miss out so it's selfish to honour your own time above others"

@@prayingmantis8148 it's a combo joke. The time-honored also can mean tradition. Doing something over and over like celebrating a holiday.

Archeologically, they did preserve it. They preserved the pieces of wood, rope, etc. They didn't preserve the spiritual nature of the henge nor it's religious significance.

I'm sure someone could have come up with a way of preserving it in situ even if it meant reburying it. It had been there for 4000 years after all. There was just no will to try.

@@jturtle5318To be fair, it’s 100% an assumption that it even had a religious significance in the first place.

​@@joshuaswart8211I'd say it's a fairly likely assumption, since it clearly has no conceivable practical purpose. A tree being deliberately placed upside down appears heavily symbolic. The thing is we can never know what exact significance it had for the people who built it, whether they conducted religious rituals in or by the structure, what gods they worshipped. Therefore digging it up can't really offend anyone's religious sensibilities because those people to whom the henge might have been sacred are long gone.

@@diarmuidkuhle8181 Or it could of just of been done by the ancient equivalent of a bunch of drunk college dudebros who were bored. We have no idea who made it or for what reason. Automatically assuming that everything ancient people did was for religious reasons is just lazy archeology.

Possibly not. The Colosseum is also an oval, circles ain't special.

@@PlatinumAltaria That's true lol

They were trying to make a wheel. 😒

What's it like being a farmer?

@@IGD-974 pretty fun, lol.

@@MarkThe_Nerd lol. What does ur daily life look like?

@@mihailmilev9909 id like to imagine its exactly like the show “clarkson’s farm” on prime video

I remember going to Avebury for a school trip in year 7, honestly one of the few things I remember happening from that long ago. Definitely want to go back and touch the vibrating rock again sometime as an adult

Hey maybe diving up land based on corporate interests instead of who actually USES it is sorta colonialist bullshit??

Yeah I don't know why people think the town OWNS the land. They primarily administrate and provide public services. Those timbers wouldn't have lasted if left exposed, 4000 years would be gone within less than a generation. Preserving them and keeping them locally may have been a good social option but I bet the decision was cost driven.

Agree he just needs to curb the condescension

What?

@@____________838 Schliemann, bro :(

At least that was an accident. The image of the tree hanging from a crane is going to stick with me for years. It's right up there with the one of a MASSIVE tree (like 15' diameter) that had been felled and some people were standing next to it like a hunter and their trophy. We will never see trees that big again.

@@EnigmaticRPG I've stood on a tree stump in California that was so big that the settlers there used it as a dance floor. Read accounts of a tree felled north of Seattle that may have been more than 400 feet tall. Words cannot truly express my shock and horror that people are so blithely willing to desecrate things that by all rights should fill them with humility and awe.

To be fair that was really one single guy that had just absolutely lost his marbles.

Thing is, in 99% of cases the public has no interest in whatever archaeologists care about. Dark coloration in the earth? Old, nasty-looking potsherds? No interest. So they just assume that the prehistoric items fall into their responsibility.

@@Atanar89 Well there are actually quite a few cases where locals are actively butting heads with archaeologists over repatriation, which happens pretty often even today and has especially happened a lot in the past. Higher profile items in particular are often the target of debate over this because they're so popular and coveted, the Rosetta stone being one major example. One video covering this topic that was shown in one of my classes was this video: watch?v=5wpwYqwf4Qc Examples of some of the worst arguments against repatriation given in that video include: "well it's a really important artifact, and really history belongs to EVERYONE, therefore WE should be allowed to decide where it gets to go even though we definitely do not represent everyone", and "but we were the ones who did the work >:( so it's at least 50% ours, even though Egypt was never given the chance to do any of the work because it was literally stolen from them when the French invaded. So it was forcibly stolen from the locals, but like, we still did stuff with it first, so it's at least partially ours", and "I just feel like it belongs to us because we had it for so long already. Sure, nowhere near as long as the native country it was taken from, but like, it wasn't being looked at in a museum for all those thousands of years! it only counts when people are looking at it, so, finders keepers!" etc. One guy even says that the British museum has "metaphysical ownership" with a straight face, which is the kind of attitude that my archaeology profs would want to slap him across the face for. The British museum is a bit infamous for hoarding the stuff they obtained via theft and colonialism, despite many of the original countries wanting the pieces of their history and culture back. So there's very much a sense of arrogance and possessiveness involved with those types of people in the field that I hope becomes more diluted and fades away over time as better outlooks are taught and normalized.

Like the remains of dead black Childermas being return from the police bombing of the Move home?

Yes I remember my archaeology class looked over Seahenge as a case study and something of an example of what not to do in terms of preservation and consultation with locals/public

I agree with paleontologist and archaeologist love fucking over rural african tribes and the love fucking over pretty much all uneducated people that live in horrifying poverty that also aren’t caucasoid. A few years ago vice did a documentary about these French dudes that owned a massive marijuana corporation in Amsterdam and pretty much any western country that has a open market for legal thc products. In this documentary they traveled 9 days through Africa by plane to cross mountain then they traveled by boat in swamps and glades during a flood. They’d stay with poor rural families and were very respectful then when they got close to their destination the French dudes were giving out the equivalent of 10-20 usd to the tribe chieftains so they could get relatively guaranteed safety from the chance of any other tribe members and they were also lead through the rough terrain of the jungle. They gave out the equivalent of 20 usd to about 4 diff tribes so these guys spent 80 bucks to find the specific strain that has been so isolated from the entire world so it was so pure. Anyways this marijuana plant specifically had very very promising medicinal and psychoactive properties. Once they got there the interviewers asked them how much money would theses two French dudes would earn from it in a year and one of them resounded 40 million minimum by the end of the year. The translator told a tribes member and they were pissed that they were fooled after leading these men and carrying them on their literally backs barefoot like slaves while these dudes had steel toed boots protecting their feet in the jungle. When I saw that these ppl were being taken advantage of I was so damn angry and all these dudes needed was the seeds. These guys pointed guns at the Africans and forced them to lead them back. It made me so angry they could’ve given these tribes 5% minimum of what they earned off the seeds for 5 years. It would’ve completely changed the lives of these ppl and put them in a way better position. But instead these French dudes were being greedy and selfish (this doc made me understand why so many European whether western or eastern countries and Asian and European countries have hated the French for hundreds of years. If they just gave these tribes 1k each they’d have enough money to feed their small tribes for a year or 2. Typically these ppl only earn the equivalent of 10 usd a month after working 12 hour shifts or more everyday. It truly broke my heart seeing these . It so sad man. These African countries were once colonized and had their nations formed from colonial maps . They didn’t even get to choose their own land or countries. That’s why Africa has so many civil wars Bc you have so many ethnic backgrounds in one country it’s bound to lead to civil turmoil and civil war. Even today France is one of the only political powers thst still colonize African nations using nep colonialism to extract precious metals and jewels, sometimes the minors are enslaved into their work and some won’t ever see a dime from their work, even the ones who get paid only make like 3-5 usd a week. It made me so sick to my stomach seeing how these greedy French bastards just rape and pillage these ppls home stone French gov has also caused more coups and civil wars than Henry Kissinger ever could. I’m sure if Kissinger could see what the French are doing today he’d literally cream his paints and make a mess

It survived there for 4000 years and we have no real reason to believe it wouldn't last another 1000 but the EH made sure to destroy it before we could find out.

@@kacperwoch4368 The storm at the start was what exposed it. It was fine under the peat moss but with that gone and with the salt water and sun now hitting it, it could've deteriorated very quickly. The problem was they didn't seem to even consider if it was possible to protect it in place before just ripping it out.

Honestly we learned basically nothing and really what is the value in trying hard to preserve it if it is completely removed from the area it was made in and the context it was made in. It’s not the site anymore, it’s just a bunch of pieces of wood now. Preservation is an interesting conundrum but honestly things like this should just be left as they are. Studied, but not removed.

@@ConWolfDoubleO7 This one hundred percent. They didn't even *try* for compromise options of any sort, never mind if they weren't able to come to one.

@@ConWolfDoubleO7 But the locals had known about it for years already so it had been exposed before and probably would be again. Even if the excuse was for preservation, there's no reason to move it away from its hometown so I agree with your last sentence.

Surly humanity can do it again 😂

Get a grip

​@@duanecameronson yikes man why do you get offended by people having emotions lol

​@@duanecameronson get basic human empathy

Why would you cry about this. I don’t understand.

Some how I fail to see how a 4,853 year old tree (the oldest known, living, non-clonal tree) is no older than a 4,359 year old flood........ There seems to be a several hundred year gap there. I know math has never been my strong suit but I quake for the education system after seeing your math skills.

Wait, wait. I'm lost. Is it "the oldest tree's known to us, are no older than the date [of the Flood]" or is it "growth rings cannot be relied on"? Are we relying on them for a date or not? Either we are and the date is older than the Flood or we are not and you get to use hand waving to hand pick which parts of science you want to keep and which you want to conveniently ignore. Oops, I used a different creationist date for the Flood. So hard to figure out which to use; AIG, JW, Ussher, etc. And I was also wrong about the date I used, it should have been 2348 BC. I forgot the post I grabbed the date from was from ~10 years ago.

@@donk1822 Huh. And all this time I thought scientists made hypotheses, hit the library to find previous relevant data and context, discussed their hypotheses with people of the relevant expertise, proposed a inquiry, standardized and documented their methods, produced data, analysed that data against the null hypothesis and any other relevant data they could get access to, discussed their assumptions and the strengths, weaknesses and limitations of their study, released it for review, revised it for errors and then presented their conclusion to the general public. Didn't realise that counted as pissing.

@@luciesimpson6437 'And all this time I thought scientists made hypotheses'. They do, like the ones that said, Venus is covered in Forests, there are canal's on Mars, Thalidomide is safe, torturing people in mental institutions will cure them. They get paid for theories, ideas, even absolute lies on occasions. Whatever it is that's falling on your head, rest assured, it isn't all of potable quality.

@@donk1822 oh who is they huh

My thought exactly

Same here lol

Well, it isn't really a "henge" since a henge is the ditch and possible earth walls around the circle so the name is more or less clickbait the newspapers or locals made up, but it was real. There might however be something closer to the CIV5 bug outside Orkney. There seems to be an actual henge with stones on the bottom of the sea outside Orkney that might be around 1000-1500 years older then stonehenge. If it is it was still built near the water and flooded with raising sea water levels. Josh Gates from Expedition unknown dived on it a few years back but evidence was inconclusive. A LIDAR study of the place is really needed to prove or disprove the place. Sometimes life might be stranger then fiction. :)

#FeatureNotABug

Well then, I guess I have to change the plans for the statue of libersea, then... *That one's actually supposed to be in the water* I know this from somewhere I just don't know where from

As they say, history is written by the... writers of history.

Mt Everest, discovered 1849 The native Tibetan name was in a dictionary by 1721

but if something's been there your whole life, can you truly say you discovered it? it's like how nobody has ever claimed to have discovered the Moon. to discover something you have to have not known about it beforehand, so technically it's correct. that said, it is still fun to laugh at people who "discovered" things that the locals already knew about.

Not in this case. It was buried and out of sight until revealed by shifting sands

​@@bradymenting5120 🎉😅 This is awesome I JUST DISCOVERED THE MOON 14 FEB 2024

NfN 🤣

That makes me want to scream.

And all the sites in Glen Canyon under Lake Powell...

@@AzathothTheGreat as a Greek person

@@AzathothTheGreat I am currently internally screaming

@@AFuriousCrab yeah I mean at some point you have to weigh the importance of the site. Should we save the local Walmart because in a thousand years it will be history? Obviously no, but unless a site actually reveals something new or different about a culture it's not the end of the world. I know that's blasphemy to a lot of archaeologists but if we followed it tightly anywhere a musket ball or cannon was fired in wars past is a historic site today so enjoy no longer building anything lol.

It's still kind of strange that there weren't more good photos of it available. You'd think a lot of people would like to photograph it.

There's an entire episode of Time Team on it where you can have a really good look. They said the sea was going to swallow it up and rot the wood before long, now that it was exposed. It would be gone by now, either way.

It truly is sad that the second site was destroyed Fortunately the first has been preserved in a museum for future generations to enjoy

Honestly that's quite beautiful in my opinion. I feel that naturalist like sights should be respected. Yes it would be nice to keep it preserved for everyone to see but why? What right do you have to ogle the 'mysterious weird history thing' when those who made it weren't respected. It was placed there for a reason and may even have been intended to weather with time. Sometimes the beauty of nature can be ruined by freezing it in place and not allowing it to decay like the rest of us. Beauty is beauty became its a brief spectacle not a constant selfish display. Just my opinion but I do really see why others would want to preserve rather than watch from afar. Really it should be up to the culture it impacts and the locals that live with it.

Do you know what is causing the damage? Just weathering from being exposed or vandalism?

@@jellyman140 Almost certainly both are factors. I would guess being exposed to the elements is the biggest, but I cannot say for sure.

@@paninibread1795 i really see where you are coming from but as someone studying archeology right now the decay and disappearing of historical traces and especially human traces is a cultural loss that cannot be undone no matter what, once something like a fossil or an artifact is destroyed that piece of history is most likely lost forever and that's exactly what archeology want to prevent, like that's the goal of archeology as a whole

@@paninibread1795weird history things! Who are u to say we can’t respect our ancestors or earth and original life… That’s why or we are lost to this crap society. Weird history thing ffs 🤦‍♀️

Already the first minute of his witty banter is pure comedy gold. Somebody should splice together Milo's highlits and just let him rip for an hour; I love this guy, a true Treasure 😝

God it would’ve been so nice to watch videos of this quality in school instead of the old VHS tapes with audio so horrible I couldn’t understand a single word 😅 Though to be fair I have audio processing disorder so I can hardly make out what’s being said without captions regardless of quality 😭

The sad part is that the kids almost certainly have seen way more revolting things in their time on the internet and would probably love to watch this vid during a lesson - but you as a teacher may still get in trouble for it for some f*cking reason

Drag shows ok. But archeological content ? How dare you.

Cant swear in schools sadly

Thank you!! I try to present my stories with a good flow so it means a lot that I seemed to have achieved that!

@@miniminuteman773 if it serves you for anything, your melodic choices for spliting chapters are also on point. They produce no humming noise no the TV and are comfortable on headphones. Volume balance is also spotless for every transition, no need to mute or change volume even a single time. These might seem small, but even PBS Eons messes up these details once to often, regardless of their nearly perfect scripts and presentations

@@miniminuteman773 I enjoy the little tangents.. they make for a natural telling of the story, reminiscent of VSauce or CGPGrey. It just seems natural to "tug on the thread" and follow little tangents for a bit (Like Buster Nolan) before you get back to the story at hand.

@@miniminuteman773 id love to see more stories like this!

@@miniminuteman773 It's been a few years now but I remember hearing rumors of something like this right off the coast of Florida , might be worth looking into .

I agree with the sentiment, but at the same time I agree as to why it was removed: dire preservation. Unlike sites like Stonehenge, Seahenge was in danger of being destroyed by the sea as what happened to Holme II. So while it is important to let a site stay where it is for the sake of context as you said, is it more important than the actual integrity and overall survival of the site itself for future generations?

@@viperhunter7951The site is no more-- it was removed from its location, and thus is no longer a site. Future generations cannot visit the site. Its remains are kept in a museum to be gawked at without locational context, and thus lose their meaning.

Of course archaeologists document where exactly everything was standing

It was going to be destroyed if they had left it there . And I can assure you that archaeologists are entirely trained professional people who are completely aware of the importance of context. For anybody to claim that they are not it's just a demonstration of their own ignorance.

@@hobosorcerer See my above question, while it certainly doesn’t have the same charm as it would had it been left as is, it’s better to at least have it somewhere rather than nowhere.

The part about the bells is a haunting thought. Also makes me think of Doggerland.

Yeah the bell thing is metal af, holy crap

We get that in Norfolk also. They're old Fishermen's Tales.

@@AccidentalNinja like a source of the myth to some extent, weather the memory of those who lived there or the artifacts fishermen found

were brits even christian back then? as far as I know church bells are a catholic tradition

True, you get it

They made an accurate diagram of the exact positions and rotations of every piece. Not saying what they did is good, but I am saying that this reason for it being bad isn't applicable.

@@grantdraus7449 An irrelevant side-note which might qualify as a "fun fact" on a less deplorable topic most certainly does NOT invalidate the reasoning. You have met a perceived ignorance with far, far greater ignorance. Very fitting, given the story presented in the video.

@@apenguininthemist855 no that's not a side note. Did you read my comment? It was purely about the fact that moving the pieces physically from their original location was not a bad thing on its own, in and of itself. The reason being is that we in deep detail know the original places of each piece. There are other reasons this is bad, but that is not one of them. Increase your reading comprehension skills before deciding to use such big words.

As a local, it was actively breaking up in the storms. If the archaeologists left it, there'd.be nothing left and we'd also no nothing about it. Which is exactly what happened to the second sister site nearby.

I mean, many thousands of years really. They have absolutely nothing to do with any ancient British structures.

Gaia *Industries* , don't mistake them for Gaia the woo woo pseudoscience quantum electric sun universe youtube ripoff.

Yeah, I'm bookmarking that for future reference

Pulling out a sustainable wooden water bottle promo during a story about watery wood being lost to human folly may just be the perfect ad

@@neoqwerty Actually, "industrees".

honestly, prices are pretty fair especially with the discount

Do you know where the house was moved to and if it's open to the public? Might want to visit as I'm in the area.

I see all sorts of trees when I hike that are such weird shapes from breaking and healing through so many storms, trees that have huge dead sections and equally huge living sections, it's just nuts

There are trees in my town along a dirt path that are horizontal and partly submerged in a lake, and still alive. Nature is crazy.

my grandfather has an apple tree that is completely hallowed out yet still produces apples. its also on top of an old native american campsite and i know our conspiracy theorists will love that fact lmfao.

Trees really are just weird. There's instances of people taking grown trees, digging them up - roots and all - then flipping it upside down and burying it. The tree survives by going "fuck you" and turning its branches into roots and its roots into leafing branches. I've seen pics of them and they're *very* weird looking. You can find images of them by googling "tree planted upside down"

@@Headstash1080 The interesting thing happening there is that only the outermost layers of a tree are actually alive, with all the rest just passively pulling up water. So a hollowed out tree is no more dead than a solid one, albeit likely not getting as much water to its foliage

So, how do you do that in an intertidal zone? It is not unfortunate, it is impossible.

@@wiretamer5710 Build an enclosure that would keep it as safe as possible. The primary concern is people, no?

To be fair it may not have been possible, but what happened here is people who did not own the site treated it as their property and destroyed it in order to preserve its components parts, and very arrogantly told locals they had no rights over it, when they had as much right as anyone else. They also told archeologists not involved in the removal they couldnt observe it and Time Team, the TV show they could have one guy filming, then allowed camera crews from all media outlets to come and film. Because it wasnt their property to say who could and couldn't come. It may have been better to try and cover it up again.

@@voicetest6019 so basically create the Netherhlands 2? In that area the tides are between 2.5 and 5.5 m, and the site was about 230m out from the dunes, about 370 m near where a creek flows into the sea. It would basically mean creating an 800m long, 10m high dike straight through a nature reserve and breaking up a beach in an area prone to erosion.

@@HappyBeezerStudios Or an enclosed tomb.

why? holme II is almost gone now because they left it there, at least seahenge is preserved

@@HarrDarr they destroyed seahenge they didn't preserve it.

@@Phil9874 what do you mean? all the parts of seahenge are all preserved

@@HarrDarr welllll.... apart from the part they chainsaw'd.

@@HarrDarr are they, though? If someone cut you up and took out every organ, then properly cleaned them and put them in formaldehyde, were you actually preserved?

yeah, I heard if that too. especially big projects like highways which involve a ton of money and all of a sudden they remove a bronce age grave hill (Germany) and to forgoe the costs and time delay it just disappears.

@@siiiriously3226 or in America the government or museum will confiscate your land without compensation

Same thing happens if endangered species are found on private property by the landowners. Rather than being excited that they have something cool on their land, they are more concerned about the bureaucratic red tape and nosy government officials controlling what they can do on their land, and those endangered species quietly disappear…

There are a lot of laws in the UK for this reason. By law any building built before 1950 must have an archeological dig done beneath it if it is to be demolished

@@StarWarsomania Which is anything, is even more of an argument to NOT give these shitstains any say, and fine anyone who destroys priceless heritage till they learn...

It sounds like a didgeridoo! That's really cool.

That song was pretty groovy though

totally thought it was a didgeridoo but now I hope it's a carnyx just for the extra touch of history that gives it

If anyone is interested in hearing the Carnyx in all its haunting glory: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-HHJSd9nigSA.html It’s got a lot of range, but on the lower notes it definitely sounds kinda like a didgeridoo.

Did they use one with, or without 'tongue' in the song?

"It is believed..." Believed by whom? Based on what?

@@beeble2003 A lot of the theory is knitted together really well by Francis Pryor in A Time Traveller's Tales from Britain's Prehistory ~ if you can get a hold of it. Sure, as always, it can't always be proven 100%, but there's enough fragmentary evidence of our ancestors cyclical days to daily lives and rituals across the world that suggest that some form Proto Indo-European Yuletide-like ritual was being carried out there.

Thought Time Team must have been involved. I mean it was 1998, where's Tony, Phil and Mick?

@@beeble2003 I feel like you've never heard a folk story in your life-

@@wistymations The OP claims that something "is believed". It is entirely legitimate to ask who believes this thing and why, as this use of the passive voice suggests a generally held belief of the population at large. For example, the statement "it is believed that the Earth is flat" is objectively correct, in that there are people who believe that,. However, it's hugely misleading, as it suggests a generally accepted fact. "It is a folk story" is a possible answer to the "why?" part, but the "who?" part is still important. There's a huge difference between "a few people believe" and "it is a generally accepted fact"

Too difficult placement, and having it chopped with a chainsaw is probably a good reason too to remove it... You also have to consider that when they decide so, they really don't know if they are going to find anything below the stump/logs, like remains, artifacts, ashes, etc (which is pretty common). Now you know the end result, which is that there was nothing interesting.

@@grievuspwn4g3 Holme is tiny. It's basically a pub and some houses, so there isn't any existing museum they could use. Really nice fish and chips though. I think King's Lynn was basically the closest museum there was that actually has the facilities to take it.

@@grievuspwn4g3 There is no obvious right place to put it, at least in my eyes. Sure, it was found in Holme, so it 'belongs' to the people of Holme, right? At the same time, it was found in Norfolk county, so maybe it should be put in a place where the most people of Norfolk county could enjoy it. It's just as much their history as it is that of the People currently living in Holme. The same argument can be transferred to England as a whole. Then there's also the preservation and economical side. It just doesn't always make sense to keep archaelogical sites near their finding place. It would be stupidly expensive and sometimes impossible.

Don't try to enable this by saying "at least it was kept local". It doesn't matter if it was moved 10 m down the road, the fact is it was destroyed and stolen.

@@bavarianpotato in this case it does make sense to keep it where it was found, it had been there over 4000 years without anybody interfering with it, it wasn't costing anything. That sounds like a bad excuse made by people to steal historical monuments. Most of these monuments have been hidden for thousands of years without any money put into them. It's a very European Colonial idea that we can just take history "for the greater good"

He is but a man. But the content is great.

Swiddly diddly piddly pop

Yeah since Sam O'Nella decided to up and vanish, it's been very much needed.

@@JoanWhack YES! I miss that Sam.

I like that there are these guidelines set in place, though it does feel like they could still be subverted, particularly in the case where a group isn't well known, or had no desire to communicate with the archeologists. How do you deal with the possibility that a group unknown to you could have great culture connection to a place (or would if they even knew about it)?

ethical guidelines for the treatment of artifacts have been in place with most archaeological/exploration entities for over a century (be it good or bad), even Arthur Evans had a list of things he would and would not do at a time not too much later from Schliemann detonating dynamite at Hissarlik. While ethics have changed through time, most organizations and institutions came to a version of the above statement in the 1960s and 1970s with the post modern paradigm change. CIfA itself would have been well established by the late 90s and I would wager that the code of conduct would have wording in it similar to the current one if not at the very least something along those lines (I am too young and disassociated from UK archaeology to know). The issue still arises where people will do something because they can, not because they should, and entities with enough clout or finances can circumvent "ethics statements" or legal battles that may surround them, take the legal disaster that is NAGPRA in the US for example. To me Holm 2 is much more interesting and potentially provides a lot more information of the material culture of late Neolithic/early Bronze Age peoples of the south eastern UK. Imagine if groups had worked together with Holm 1 instead of playing at being Time Team.... we might have actually learned something useful.

Time team did a special on this. Every one was consulted but the thing was getting destroyed by the sea. So it was moved. They also built a version of the henge on dry land. Either the thing was moved or it got washed out to sea.

I'm with Milo on this, with the nature of costal sites like this there isn't much to be gained from excavation and the potential presence of worthwhile artifacts is small. Listening to local outcry to not disturb it would have been a much better use of finances. Not only that but exposed costal sites usually aren't exposed for too long, they are either destroyed (by vandalism or nature) or rapidly reburied by the same forces that exposed them. Also at the time the site was exposed our knowledge of the preservation of water logged wood was much different than it is now, the preservation process was probably incredibly damaging, replacing water in the cellulose with PEG or another chemical that can distort the wood or never fully stabilize the artifact, resulting in its slow destruction, or expensive indefinite retreatment (ie Vasa).

also most time team episodes are on youtube, if anyone cares ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-KgK-o3uE3Tg.html

Was it still being used for rituals, or did pagans not realize it was there until it was exposed by the storm?

​@@jturtle5318no one knew about it till then.

I saw the Time Team episode featuring it. Have you ever seen it?

Yup

Boom!

Hard Agree.

Well at least it’s their religion. Skeevy still, but far less so than white people rewriting Native American religion. The people who built Stonehenge don’t really have any descendant outside of the modern people of the British Isles. Maybe the died out or maybe they were absorbed, but these people are the closest thing they’ve got. If you want to fuck around with your own ancestor’s religion, that’s fine with me. Maybe my opinion would be different if my areas hippies were less *colonial*.

It's kind of poetic when you think of it, modern "druids" make a bunch of stuff up about archaeological sites, just as the Celtic druids very likely would have picked up on and appropriated ancient neolithic sites in their beliefs back around the roman times.

ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-39jpILKe64w.html

That’s exactly what I was thinking.

Im studying preservation. That being said, I’m gonna send this case study to my Cohort.

What would the compromise here be? I don't see how the archeologists in this situation have any right to touch this site at all. Preservation in this instance means entirely leaving it alone imo

@@guy-sl3kr ok so I work with paintings so this is not quite my area, but I had a guest lecturer at university who specialised in waterlogged archaeological wood, and she talked about in situ-conservation. It means that if an object can’t be excavated and brought up to the surface you basically bury it on the bottom of the ocean where it was found. I’m thinking they should have done something similar with this, either covering it or just leave it alone. And if you want people to be able to see the object on the surface you could instead construct a replica.

What compromise? They didn't preserve the site, they dismantled it and thereby destroyed it. They turned it from an ancient structure into a bunch of artifacts.

Buster Nolan is not a man who would perform a cheap stunt such as you say. He's a skilled exceptionally clever man when it comes to trees. They wanted him for his knowledge, not a stunt protester that can be denounced and be made out as a nutter by the media. Knowledge and argument is better than gimmicks. Buster Nolan I take my hat off too you, your a top man...👍🏻

Sacrifices "have" to be made in the pursuit of knowledge! Like that clam that was killed to judge its age, found to be one of the longest living things (up until it was killed), and we have no clue how much longer it may have lived. I adore science but like... ffs

@@EnigmaticRPG well part of science is not knowing how big you fucked up til after the fuck up. You still learn something, just not what you wanted to learn.

@@EnigmaticRPG freal like just wait for it to die right?

@@mondaysinsanity8193 or even better, take it as a sign that maybe you should look for a way to judge its age without killing it.

I feel like maybe we would've learned more if they just left it