Here's one for you...if readiness is number one...WTF does a change in dress uniform do? I mean the OCP uniform is significantly more robust than the BDU, but that's another story.
When i was a soldier in 1990, we had the green service uniform. Most of us couldn't identify the Army blues, as very few enlisted had them. I later joined the Marines, and we had a service uniform and a dress uniform. The Pinks and Greens are a service uniform, not a dress uniform.
I thought the same thing. My experience in the army was that lieutenants always were expected to buy two uniforms. One was the green uniform and the dress blues for the very few times when you attended the dining ins, weddings and other formal occasions.
There was a period of time from about 2008 until 2020 where the ASU served the role that "old Soldiers" would think of as the old green uniform and the old dress blues. So Army LTs used to be expected to buy two uniforms, that policy ended, and then was quietly brought back.
You are correct. one of the reasons for the introduction of the ASU was to get rid of one of the uniforms (the dress blues) and it looks like the Army is going wright back to that
Every branch has a "dress uniform" which is the Army ASU. The new Pinks/Greens aren't a dress uniform, they are for everyday wear when not wearing a field uniform. No big mystery.
1' keep the pink & greens as the ASU , the old dress blues which hold ties with the old us cavalry keep them as officers only , now because only a few fanatics actually own it get rid of the white waiters dress jacket and cape way too pricey
The older I get, the more I realize that there is "nothing new under the sun.", This is not hard people, we have done this before! When I joined the Army in 1976. Officers wore the AG44 "Army Green" as a service uniform and only officers on active duty (RA and AUS) were required to purchase Dress Blues. Reserve officers who were attending their OBC, were "strongly encouraged" to buy Dress Blues, but they could wear a white dress shirt with a bow tie with the AG44 Greens. Us enlisted swine were able to wear a white shirt and bow tie with our Greens and call it a dress uniform. Blues were issued as OCIE to enlisted members of the 3rd INF RGR. Most NCOs bought Dress Blues when they were E7 and were on the track to make E8. To close the loop, the reason that the AG44 Army Green, replaced the WWII era Service Uniform, it was because that the WWII uniform was worn by nearly every bell hop, car hop, service station attendant, in the country as they were cheap and flooded the market. In modern terms, they were diluting the brand.
Interesting point about the bell hops...I gotta look that up. In the meantime, you are 100% right. Nothing is really new...except for some 28 year old. To him the policy shifts back to the "old ways" are departures from "the way we've always done it".
@@the_bureaucrat Don't forget, there is the right way, the wrong way, the Army way and the way we do it here. Also anything done more that three times in a row, becomes something sacred, and it should never be changed.
This is absolutely not complicated. The now obsolete "Army Green" (AG44) uniforms were an Army standard for decades, beginning a few years after the Korean Conflict. All personnel, regardless of rank, were required to own and maintain one along with several necessary accessories. Simultaneously, the Army Service Dress Blue uniform was, in most cases, optional for purchase and wear at worn on various special occasions like New Year's receptions, dining ins and weddings, etc. In reality, officers had little choice but to purchase these "Dress Blues" but in circumstances where enlisted needed them, as in assignment to ceremonial units for example, Blues were issued free of charge. This was how it worked and worked quite well for several decades, so there's nothing new about the "two uniform" conundrum. The now recognized as bad idea of dropping the greens and adapting Dress Blues to replace the Army Green was a total bust. Soldiers, enlisted and commissioned, universally despised the blues as to expensive, too difficult to maintain, and too similar to a bellhop's attire. The new Green uniform is very popular and will likely be around a long time.
In the '70s I didn't know anyone that despised the Dress Blues and I never heard anyone refer to them as Bellhop attire. They were like a Tuxedo in Civilian life. If you go to enough events that require a Tuxedo, then you buy one.
I never knew anyone who despised the Dress Blues. Some wanted a sharper blue uniform like the 1902 dress blues. Heard a lot of bitching about the greens. The AGSU A/B look really sharp. Wish they had them when I was in instead of the Green Class A/B.
Nothing new here. This is a return to norm. The Blues, prior to ASU, was always a formal uniform. The Greens were daily garrison dress uniform. What changes was not the ASU, GSU, or Army greens. It was fatigues. We started wearing BDUs everyday everywhere and the greens just hung in the wall locker. Eventually, someone realized the waste of having a Formal uniform and a garrison uniform so they altered the Formal Blues into the ASU and did away with the greens.
That's good feedback. The ASU was phased in as the sole service uniform from 2010 to 2015. So lots of older NCOs and officers remember the norm. I think the younger folks are the ones who feel something is "new" or "different".
@@the_bureaucrat Then all they have to do is look at the Air Force, The Marines, the Space Force and pre 2004 US Army. When I joined, the Army had 6 uniforms and we were required to maintain two (green summer and green winter Class A) as enlisted soldiers. Only NCO's were required to have the formal Dress Blue Uniform. Then they went to an all season Class A green uniform. BTW, I have never heard anyone complain about the expense of young Marines (most of whom rarely make it past E-3) who acquire their Dress Blue Uniform, yet I have seen a host of E-2's and E-3's consuming 2 month's pay just to own them.
When they sent out the survey to the force back in 2010, everyone wanted the AGSU, but they decided to make us get the blues anyway. Blues will be the norm for honor/color guards, and funerals. Blues will be rare again as most officers will have the mess dress and agsu. Also, DA PAM 670-1 expands on what AR 670-1
The Marines have been this way forever. You have the Class A green service uniform, the dress Blues, the evening dress, parade dress blues. And Class B and C variants. Then the utility uniforms. Also…. Enlisted were not issued dress blues and had to buy them UNLESS, they were in MOS where the Blues were standard/required (e.g Embassy security). So I see no issue here for the Army. I remember my father and grandfather wearing the old Pinks and Greens and I always thought it was the best looking service uniform for the Army. Me … I was in the USMC and yep… I had to purchase a set of dress blues.
Interesting, I was issued my dress blues in the Marines when I graduated from boot camp in 1993. We were issued both dress blues and green service uniforms.
The army also had an "all white tropical" uniform. Basically it looked navy but it was always an optional uniform & can only be worn in "tropical" areas like Puerto Rico, Hawaii, over seas bases or in the Gulf Coast states during the summer. It was phased out in 2014.
@@the_bureaucrat In the 3rd US Infantry Regiment (The Old Guard) in the '70s I was issued Dress Whites, but never wore them. We wore Service Greens or Dress Blues depending on the type of event.
Jim hopkins 69 I proudly served in us army from 1969,to 1989 I also proudly wore the army green uniform ag 344 ,ag44 with the poplin shirt and the army gray green shirt I also wore the army garrison cap and the service cap these uniform item s I wore proudly whether I was in transit, on parade, or at home visiting family and friends, I hope and pray that before I die, the army gets wise enough to bring these uniforms back. Hooaah!
I think you capture an aspect of these uniform changes that Active Duty generals would never notice...to do away with a uniform that Soldiers proudly wore, is to cast aside their service.
The Marines have a green class A uniform and dress blues. The army always had a class A green uniform and dress blues. It was a mistake to get rid of the class A uniform and have just one dress uniform. I like the new pinks and greens, and think they should still have a dress blue uniform. Not sure what your issue is….a?
Clarity of policy. A whole generation of Army service members grew up in a world where the Army was fighting wars and not doing multiple class A inspections. If there is suddenly a need to occupy the NCOs, there could be better uses of their time.
If you were an Officer you had the Blues, Whites and Khakis. SWO had black and white shoes. Airdales added brown shoes too. Those were the Service Uniforms. On top of them were "Dress & Mess Dress" Uniforms.
From my understanding soldiers stopped being issued the Dress blues in basic. So that’s why you see the AGSU in places where it shouldn’t be. Few leaders will expect their junior enlisted to spend hundreds on ASU’s they may wear 2-3 times in their contract. Heck I haven’t worn a dress uniform since 2018 and I only wore the ASU’s like 5 times, next time I have to I’m gonna buy the AGSU’s.
@@the_bureaucrat I can't speak for every clothing sales stores, but mine has definitely phased them out completely. I had to order a shirt online from third party, because the PX didnt have enough sizes online either.
Easy fix, army adopts the regulation of the Marine Corps, and uses the Blues (ASUs) as formal wear, and the AGSUs as a service uniform for daily office attire.
As others have pointed out, the ASU is simply a twist on the "old" Army Dress Blue uniform. It isn't that complicated. That you don't know that and are commenting as if having a service uniform and a dress uniform is an unusual thing really reduces the legitimacy of your comments.
I’ve read the Army uniform regs awhile back 🤦♂️. It seems the Army is searching for an identity in this constant uniform shuffle. As a retired Marine my service and dress uniforms are still viable today and I’ve been retired 22 years.
I'll tell you a little secret...its not the Soldiers who are searching for identity. Its the brass. Rolly-polly old Army NCOs and GOs hold themselves in low esteem when they compare themselves to Lifer Marines. They can't find pride in themselves so they chase the pride that others have.
This is not confusing, or new. The pinks and Greens are simply replacing Class A/B/C green service uniform that was discontined around 2015. The ASU / Blues, are now optional. So privates CANNOT be required to purchase it. Technically, officers cannot either, but if they want their career to advance, they will fall in line and purchase it. It’s the same as it was for decades. This is a return to normal, but with a much, much better green uniform. The Blues always looked weird in ASU configuration anyway. Hopefully the regulation returns that uniform to the original wear. I don’t know, I’ve been retired since 2016.
Right. It's a return to normal for folks who experienced the old version. And you're right, the AGSU is better than that green suit we used to have. It's just weird to folks who came in after the ASU was the standard.
If you weren’t an older uniform it shouldn’t be required for any occasions. I know you can be, but you shouldn’t. Command can, should, accept that there might be a mix sometimes. On formal occasions, you could swap out the green shirt and necktie for a white shirt and bowtie. I did that a few times as part of the drill team.
I'm using Marlow White package costs because I don't think AAFES offers "package deals". AGSU Male Officer is $829 ASU Male Officer is $479 That might be some "supply & demand" pricing...
@the_bureaucrat Whew! $800 is a big nut to crack for a lot of people. I "think" you can still get a really good suit for that. 400 is for sure more doable.
The army is trying to look like the, soldiers and officers of WW2, but I see video and pictures of the new uniform, they look alright, but the way they wear the hat is all wrong, the US Army AIR CORP, THEY ARE THE ONES THAT USED WEAR THEIR HATS LIKE THAT,, not the Army.
Good catch. I think that the Army AGSU is actually a conglomeration of features from WW2 era uniforms. As far as I can tell, the belt was a Marine feature.
My granddaddy said "never wear a brown shirt"...the first German officer I talked to after we got this uniform said "...uh...no way would we ever wear that..."
Eh...the way some of the guys from the 90's are talking, we might have two for a while. But you are right about the new one looking good. While on Active Duty I did Casualty Assistance for families of deceased Soldiers about 5 times...it involves a lot of dress uniform work. And I felt like the new blue uniform had a much more powerful effect on people than the blue one.
The enlisted dress uniforms from ww2 didn’t have the belt like the current agsu uniforms, during ww2 the officers only had the belt on there uniforms being a history buff and a ww2 reenactor I think they should have looked to the history books for inspiration not just making all the agsu have the belt it should be that the enlisted have no belt and the officers have a belt just like during ww2 the agsu in my opinion is a uniform that’s honoring the service members from ww2 and I think this is the way it should have been made.
I think you picked up on a nuance that gives the truth away. As far as I can tell, the Marine enlisted have a belt. The Army's green uniform has a lot more to do with looking like Marines than looking like WW2 Army.
US Army surveys after WW2 found that the enlisted despised having an inferior looking service uniform than that of the officers above them. The belt-less 4 button and Ike jackets looked like crap compared to the pinks and greens. So the US Army wanted to build better cohesiveness within the Army. They made the 1954 Green Service Uniform the same design for officers and enlisted with a 4 button jacket. Officers were given special black braid to set themselves apart. The Marines issuing both Officers and enlisted the same service uniform cut is the way to go. The same thing the Army is doing with the AGSU.
When I enlisted in 1973 everyone was issued the Army Greens (AG44). Then I was issued the Army Dress Blues & Army Dress Whites when I was in the 3rd US Infantry Regiment (TOG). The Army Greens was the standard uniform that everyone wore. Dress Blues were for special occasions. Most soldiers didn't buy Blues until they made Sgt E-5 or higher. Junior Enlisted do not have to buy special uniforms they are not issued. Graduation from BCT/AIT they wear the uniforms they were issued.
I think the green Is a little different I collect all kinds of uniforms and the old army green I mean ww1 and world war 2 and Korean War they had a olive drab type color then later after the Korean War i think around 1955 they changed to a other green color which Is more a green instead of a brownish color. The one from the mid 1950s was used till 2011 I think. The dress blues is from 1954 that I know of but officers still used the ww2 type till 1954 that I know of. The modern one is a remake of the world war 2 uniform with the same brownish green color with the brown leather covers/hat.
Well, I was enlisted mechanic from 94-97, then 05-08, Officer from 09-13. I like the new uniforms. They are historic. Yes it is a gaggle F and Cluster F. Regulations included. I really don’t know. I served and that is all I can say.
I agree that the new green uniform is better looking. When I did Casualty Assistant Officer duty, there was a lot of engagement with the general public in Class A. And while the Blue ASU worked, the Green AGSU really packed a punch.
I wish you were wrong, but when you look closely, there is something not quite right with this uniform. The brown shirt looks like a German WWII uniform.
the Army had two (actually more) Dress uniforms for many many years the greens where mandatory for everyone but the blue uniform was optional and there was a formal dress version of the green uniform (it was really three uniforms in one class B the equivalent not business casual class A (Jacket and Tie) the equivalent of a business suit and Dress Greens worn with a bow tie which for lower enlisted served as a tuxedo equivalent the Army has had na long tradition (and policy) that a commander can not require his unit to perches uniform items that are optional and I have never been asked to as a senior enlisted there were uniform items that we were encouraged to buy such as the stetson at FT Hood I never bought one but when the ASUs came out I did update before the mandatory date because it was encouraged to stay competitive but I knew lots of guys who said nope I won't do it till its mandatory and there carriers were just fine so Im not saying your WRONG Im just saying my experience in the military makes me lean towards the idea that you are
Spot on. For older folks, what your are describing and what the Army is headed towards is status quo. For the younger guys who joined during the war, it's a surprise.
Not more than normal. Twiddling with uniforms is going to go on and on and on and the financial impacts to the service & Soldiers will be generally steady. It's more of a PSA.
The Army Blues (what is currently know as the ASU) were an optional purchase Dress uniform since just after WWII. My father, who served in WWII and Korea, had a pair and I purchased mine when I was a SSG. It was used for formal affairs. The uniform is the same as the blues issued uniform currently worn, with the exception of the the service strips and the pant stripes. It was worn at official formal military functions, and it could be worn at any civilian function that required tuxedo attire. The army dumbed them down when they decided to replace the Army Green uniform with the blues. I was retired when that happened. But clearly the Blues look 10,000 time sharper than the old Greens, and about a million times better than that ugly Pinks and Greens they brought back from WWII. Clearly the ugliest dress uniform every conceived.
I agree...I mean, they'll tell you that there is no change in price, but something about constantly changing our uniform undermines the consistency of the force.
