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THE SUPERIOR TUNGSTEN PROJECTILE | Tungsten Carbide vs Tungsten Alloy Armour Piercing Simulation 

SY Simulations
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Tungsten Carbide (WC) and Tungsten Alloy (WHA) are both common materials in armour piercing projectiles, but how do they compare against spaced armour?
The simulation presents the L28A1 APDS round against the upper plate of the MBT/KPZ-70 from 800m away. This round featured a WC core, which is susceptible to shattering. The simulation compares this to L52 APDS (M728), which used a WHA core instead. WHA is denser and tougher than WC so is favoured for high performance projectiles.
Both of these projectiles are APDS rounds from the 105mm L7 cannon, with L28 and L52 entering service in the 1950's and 60's respectively. Both were license produced in other countries, such as the US and Sweden, but interestingly, West Germany only used L28 (DM13) until it adopted APFSDS in the late 70's.
At 1000m, L28 and L52 can perforate a 120mm and 130mm plate at 60°, respectively, however L28's performance drops much faster against increased obliquity or spaced armour.

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5 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 101   
@SYsimulations
@SYsimulations Год назад
I think quite a few people knew about this already but thought that a comparison would still be interesting :)
@haguroIJN-myokoclass-No.4-1929
できれば複合装甲についてのアニメーションを作ってください!
@derrickstorm6976
@derrickstorm6976 Год назад
yes indeed, thank you :)
@Fish-ub3wn
@Fish-ub3wn Год назад
You could throw in some matching tune, just sayin'...
@MrJamesJohnsson
@MrJamesJohnsson Год назад
Don't know if the game War Thunder is realistic in this point but you can see there that the M728/L52 round has around 40mm less penetration at flat armour but better performance against angled armour than the DM13/L28 round
@SYsimulations
@SYsimulations Год назад
That's pretty much the case actually
@ser43_OLDC
@ser43_OLDC Год назад
It is known that gaijin nerfed APDS and APCR for balance reasons more than 5 years ago
@Phapchamp
@Phapchamp Год назад
@@ser43_OLDC Gaijin nerfed APCR not APDS. APDS still acts realistic on high angles.
@ser43_OLDC
@ser43_OLDC Год назад
@@Phapchamp APDS was also nerfed, back when the British were added
@bighobo7745
@bighobo7745 Год назад
Pretty much yes, just that the numbers for both are lower than in reality.
@Borsuk3344
@Borsuk3344 Год назад
I knew where to put my vote in this one.
@IanAwfuls
@IanAwfuls Год назад
Well it was kinda obvious and you were probably like me, really surprised that most of the people chose Tungsten Carbide in the poll. XD
@SYsimulations
@SYsimulations Год назад
@@IanAwfuls I made a poll about this?
@IanAwfuls
@IanAwfuls Год назад
@@SYsimulations didn't you?
@ZorgonKiloEchoLima
@ZorgonKiloEchoLima Год назад
@@IanAwfuls That was DemyanXYZ lol
@IanAwfuls
@IanAwfuls Год назад
@@ZorgonKiloEchoLima oh shite you're right. XD lol well both channels are kinda similar so it was quite easy to made this mistake XD
@peasant8246
@peasant8246 Год назад
Aka "Standard" vs "Gold" ammunition. :)
@ThatZenoGuy
@ThatZenoGuy Год назад
Xaxaxaxaxa)))))
@ukuskota4106
@ukuskota4106 Год назад
Just donate!😆😆😆
@minhducnguyen9276
@minhducnguyen9276 4 месяца назад
Same with HEAT rounds, normally they have copper liners but the high performance HEAT rounds have tantalum liner which is more expensive.
@hottoniapalustris1541
@hottoniapalustris1541 Год назад
As always very good video, and the trivia make it all the better. :-) Also two questions: what are the other ingredients of this alloy, and how well would pure tungsten perform?
@SYsimulations
@SYsimulations Год назад
I think this alloy is tungsten nickel...copper? Iron as well? I forgot tbh, and im not sure how pure tungsten would perform but its a lot softer without the alloys afaik
@hottoniapalustris1541
@hottoniapalustris1541 Год назад
@@SYsimulations Ok. Thank you.
@antaresmc4407
@antaresmc4407 Год назад
@@SYsimulations pure W is slightly denser but much more brittle, and depending on the specific aloy can be softer too. It's actually a pretty trashy material (like most pure metals tbf) Also is the carbide solid or cemented? If the latter, which is the binder?
@the7observer
@the7observer Год назад
not surprised considering carbide is generally metal powder that is compressed and "caked" which is generally more brittle than a solid made of same material edit: carbide is still usefull as it can make manufacturing easier. You see a lot of carbide cutting tools for machining since they don't deform as easily (when cutting) and are better for managing heat (I think sandvik is a major carbide cutter manufacturer)
@Zadlo14
@Zadlo14 Год назад
Both tungsten carbide and tungsten alloy are pressed and sintered so you missed the point
@xxxm981
@xxxm981 Год назад
What kind of alloy is Tungsten alloy? is it Tungsten Copper? Tungsten Chromium? DOes anyone know
@bighobo7745
@bighobo7745 Год назад
Did you see any difference in results caused by the cap design specifically? L52 had something labeled a "tilt-cap" but I'm not completely sure what exactly it would do.
@kimjanek646
@kimjanek646 Год назад
It would tilt 😉 against sloped armor, thereby pushing the nose of the penetrator down, into the armor. Probably adding a bit of performance against sloped armor.
@SYsimulations
@SYsimulations Год назад
Well they both have the tilt cap so hard to tell, but I expect it helped both of them to resist rotating away from the plate as it 'pushes the nose down' slightly
@cboetigphone
@cboetigphone Год назад
US Armor basic course 1975 we were briefed by the Deputy Commandant who had lead the US armor evaluation of 1973 war lessons learned team. We were briefed on the surprising effectiveness of 105 APDS (doctrinally HEAT had been the favored AT round) but that several fixes had been implemented to improve performance. One was the improved cap which improved effectiveness on sloped armor by digging the round in instead of bouncing off. We were not briefed on the improved penetrator but this was an unclassified briefing.
@jamesmandahl444
@jamesmandahl444 Год назад
Nah it was a good teaching video as many new to this stuff think modern AP ammo using tungsten is tungsten carbide. It's what I thought at first. Took digging into actual characteristics of the modern stuff to find out it was actually nickel and other metals currently used.
@razorcola9833
@razorcola9833 Год назад
120 mm L23A1 APFSDS vs 120 mm BD26 APFSDS against complex NERA array.
@MAZEMIND
@MAZEMIND Год назад
A significant emotional event in both cases for the crew.
@Boomchacle
@Boomchacle Год назад
I think they stopped having emotions when half of the brain was replaced with tungsen tbh
@s.31.l50
@s.31.l50 Год назад
Hi SY, I'm wondering whether you can make a video showing the effectiveness of T-64 turret armour. In particular the late-A (1972 onwards) and B variants with the 'ceramic balls'. It is such a unique armour composition.
@SYsimulations
@SYsimulations Год назад
I may do that one day :)
@whyjay9959
@whyjay9959 Год назад
Apparently this particular alloy is tungsten, nickel and copper.
@martinlimburg888
@martinlimburg888 6 месяцев назад
Very interesting, how do you know?
@bucketm0nkey613
@bucketm0nkey613 Год назад
Nice!
@theelectricbrain97
@theelectricbrain97 Год назад
Which software do you use for such simulations? Also, do you design the shells or use existing blueprints to create a 3D model using CATIA and then import it into the said Simulation software?
@AmericanDiscord
@AmericanDiscord Год назад
Software is Abacus. If I remember from his previous videos he creates the models himself and modifies the material properties from the material library since the ones in the library often don't perform similar to known test results for real world tests.
@SYsimulations
@SYsimulations Год назад
All the videos for the last year are on ansys now, and as American said, I model them myself (from existing diagrams or engineering drawings) and use my own adjusted material properties :)
@SilentHunter7
@SilentHunter7 3 месяца назад
@@SYsimulations Can you share your source for the apds rounds? My Google-Fu is failing me and all I can get are basic diameter and length of the shell, nothing on the penetrator.
@BOEING--mh6xm
@BOEING--mh6xm 6 месяцев назад
I’m an idiot so I’d make the back plate 120mm the front 100mm RHA as well And Right behind the 100mm plate will be 20mm HHA 20mm NERA 20mm HHA 20mm air with a 5mm aluminum plate in the middle to help slow down and catch extra stuff and it has a 5mm titanium plate behind it than a 10mm air gap than 40mm RHA lined on either side by quartz composite material that’s 15mm thick and they will be coated on either side by 10mm titanium as well and 10mm tungsten alloy and they will be coated by 5mm titanium on the outside than the next layer heading in will be 50mm DU 50mm HHA 30mm aluminum 20mm mm glass texolite 10mm RHA 30mm glass texolite 10mm titanium 20mm NERA 10mm RHA 5mm titanium 20mm aluminum 30mm titanium 20mm tungsten 30mm DU 60mm HHA than the back 120mm RHA plate What is this lmao ima think about a more “conventional” experimental armor layout” later or cut some internal layers 1/4 the way
@Galrock_
@Galrock_ Год назад
That is the behaviour difference I expected between a ceramic and and a metal
@rykehuss3435
@rykehuss3435 Год назад
1405 m/s is a lot of velocity at 800 meters
@razorcola9833
@razorcola9833 Год назад
L28 velocity drop at 1000 m is 94 m/s vs 80 m/s for the L52.
@rykehuss3435
@rykehuss3435 Год назад
@@razorcola9833 These things are ridiculously fast even at such ranges
@morgus9892
@morgus9892 Год назад
Can we get a L52/M728 to L28/M392 comparison now?
@SYsimulations
@SYsimulations Год назад
Theyre so similar that there would be barely be a difference unfortunately
@TheGabesnell
@TheGabesnell Год назад
Wondering if you could test heat and various ap rounds vs liquid with same density and viscosity as fuel. To put to rest the great war thunder debates of fuel tanks
@a.t6066
@a.t6066 Год назад
Will there be some potential simulation for middle calibre apfsds? Some like Italians 60mm and 76mm guns. Widely used for armored cars and it is dangerous to tanks? Usa and big nation do not like small guns. Even 105mm is said as too small for a light tank... so I wonder for minor nations how such small guns are good enough
@Johnthecollie
@Johnthecollie Год назад
I really want to see what the latest main gun on the T-64 can do against the armor of the T-72
@devianttoast5828
@devianttoast5828 Год назад
For softer targets wouldn't you want a round more prone to shattering to improve crew-kill capability? Like the logic behind a hollow-point bullet, but for tanks?
@RhodokTribesman
@RhodokTribesman Год назад
In that case, you're probably just loading explosive rounds
@devianttoast5828
@devianttoast5828 Год назад
@@RhodokTribesman Maybe for large caliber, but on smaller guns you might want... what would you call it? Semi-AP rounds? to fight against other light vehicles. At least unless you have access to APHE
@quentagonthornton49
@quentagonthornton49 Год назад
@@devianttoast5828 Against light vehicles, you'd want to use HEAT as APHE isn't much different than solid shot AP in real life which is why it is no longer used, other than some multi-purpose semi armor piercing rounds for autocannons, but the reason for this is likely because it's too difficult to manufacture very small HEAT projectiles.
@velvetthundr
@velvetthundr Год назад
Have you done M829A4 vs T-80BVM Relikt UFP? I do want to know if that long asf APFSDS can kill a T-80BVM on the front.
@copeboi7714
@copeboi7714 6 дней назад
Would it cost a fortune to make those bullets?
@ohnothisguyagain69
@ohnothisguyagain69 Год назад
T 72 top cage vs javelin/nlaw, Pls do this
@davidnull5590
@davidnull5590 Год назад
"T 72 top cage vs javelin/nlaw," The Russian Army is performing this testing, the T-72 dies everytime with or without a cage on top.
@Sha.ll0w
@Sha.ll0w Год назад
Lez go alloy gang!
@su-25frogfoot74
@su-25frogfoot74 Год назад
Dumb question. What software is this and how do you download it?
@safakalayci1582
@safakalayci1582 Год назад
What is RHA and HHA?
@SYsimulations
@SYsimulations Год назад
Rha is rolled homogenous armour (armour grade steel) hha is high hardness armour (very hard armoured steel)
@morgus9892
@morgus9892 Год назад
Rolled Homogeneous Armor and High Hardness Armor.
@tungstenman2822
@tungstenman2822 Год назад
we are one of the manufacture of this tungsten alloy and tungsten carbide bullet in China.
@I_am_looking_for_GF
@I_am_looking_for_GF Год назад
What is the difference between the carbine and the alloy? Are they made from different materials? Or do they have a different production method?
@SYsimulations
@SYsimulations Год назад
Both, carbide is a metal ceramic which is very hard, while alloy is tungsten mixed with other metals and is tough
@martinlimburg888
@martinlimburg888 6 месяцев назад
Tungsten Carbide needs a binder material to mix with as well, typically cobalt oder nickel in a lot of different industries for stone crushing or cutting applications but I’m also curious to understand what is used in case of armour piercing ammunition
@belgianfried
@belgianfried 10 месяцев назад
What does WHA actually stand for
@Kumquat_Lord
@Kumquat_Lord Год назад
Yeah, that looks about right. tungsten carbide is fantastically hard, but as a result it's super brittle and fractures easily.
@4T3hM4kr0n
@4T3hM4kr0n Год назад
LMFAO, both rounds pretty much break up on impact but then body slam through the final back plate.
@ukuskota4106
@ukuskota4106 Год назад
What alloy is this exactly??? With titanium and cobalt?
@jamesmandahl444
@jamesmandahl444 Год назад
@Ukus Kota I believe nickel is a major allowing element used in the modern tungsten alloys. Not completely sure.
@jamieimbusch
@jamieimbusch Год назад
Aww, I was wrong. At least I'm a little smarter now xD
@ssuuss539
@ssuuss539 8 месяцев назад
Imagine if the conqueror used this round lol
@AllMightyKingBowser
@AllMightyKingBowser Год назад
Dumb request, but would love seeing IS-7 130mm AP against a potential Maus II/E-100 turret front (240/250mm angled at 30 degrees). In my head both tanks would be unkillable to one another from 1km, although IS-7 may have the upper hand in the long run.
@ThatZenoGuy
@ThatZenoGuy Год назад
Turret front of Maus II turret was 220mm, not 240/250.
@AllMightyKingBowser
@AllMightyKingBowser Год назад
@@ThatZenoGuy thats why i said potential, then again many ppl have gone to the kubinka museum and measured Maus turret front and all say its 240mm just like the mantlet.
@ThatZenoGuy
@ThatZenoGuy Год назад
@@AllMightyKingBowser Maus 1 turret is indeed 240mm (actually more like 230-236) but the official documents for Maus 2 turret was only 220.
@Lightzie
@Lightzie Год назад
what software do you use to simulate this??
@AmericanDiscord
@AmericanDiscord Год назад
He uses Abacus by Dassault.
@SYsimulations
@SYsimulations Год назад
It actually ansys now :)
@evil_wizard76
@evil_wizard76 Год назад
Yay I was right about something
@TuAFFalcon
@TuAFFalcon Год назад
Anti tank mines please. Also do one with a Nokia 3310.
@mathieuschafer1360
@mathieuschafer1360 Год назад
Big chungus vs Nokia 33-10
@TuAFFalcon
@TuAFFalcon Год назад
@@mathieuschafer1360 Nokia 3310 MBT.
@nicolasrouvreau8365
@nicolasrouvreau8365 Год назад
Can you do a 12 lb cannonball again a 50 mm steel plate ( 30° from vertical) ?
@Commander_Koyke
@Commander_Koyke Год назад
Do a 120mm full caliber tungsten projectile flying 1200m/s hitting a 60° RHA having the thickness of 500mm.
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