The Surtr Problem... | SMITE 

surtr is kinda in a wierd spot where he has to be oppressive or he will probably just be a bad god

Others: "You can't match his early game lane pressure." Hades Solo Mains: "Hold my drink"

The first problem that surtyrs lane pressure is insane from moment one. He's stun it easy to hit and absolutely shuts down half the solo laners, he heals constantly, and dear god, ulting into a team fight with that knockup...

This sounds exactly like the Hades problem. I do agree that Surtr does need a few nerfs to round out his game but they have to be careful. I know that they have a system in Non-Conquest modes in order to nerf or buff god ability, like Ares' Ult having a longer cooldown, maybe they could use that more often so it wouldn't hurt Non-Conquest performances because I think Surtr is just fine in Arena. Honestly it sucks whenever a god gets nerfed hard because they over-preformed in only Conquest and they become unplayable in other modes where they were just fine especially when there is a system already in place for balancing Non-Conquest modes.

I play a fair amount of Surtr solo and while i think there are somethings people can do to make their experience vs Surtr a little better like buying antiheal and not trying to box me when my 3 is currently up, Surtr is still strong. providing I win the punch offs, I can secure the totem and that means I just do not care about my mana. I think increasing the cost of Surtr's spells mana wise would make him a little more fair. There are also some heroes that just shut me down like Hades.

I feel like if more people just build anti-heal and maybe nerf his 3, he wouldn't feel as oppressive

I feel surtr really isn’t an issue past first item. Rush contagion and you’re pretty much on even ground with him, maybe even winning. He’s definitely powerful early game, but the way his power wanes off as the match progresses makes him less of a problem imo.

I had the strangest experience in my first ranked game with him in my lane. I played tainted Sobek (first item tablet, defense) and got first blood from him outclearing and stupidly playing on tower line. I ended up getting a couple more kills on him, but somewhere after 2nd item (I had gotten regrowth since I had a lead, I should have gotten contagion; he had bluestone, soul eater, glad) he started to really outtrade me in brawls despite being behind. I blame the bloated passive and the fact that I was consistently getting to that 15% threshold or something. Because he didn't have defense, I did. I had tainted+ my 3, and I hadn't lost trades when it was soul eater vs early tablet. Wild.

They should remove one or both of his cleave auto attacks in his hit chain he already gets enough pressure from the rest of his kit I don't know who's idea it was to give him an even easier time clearing waves 😂

Couldn't help but notice you compared his lane pressure to other warriors, which at firs glance would be reasonable since he himself is a warrior, but i see warrior solo laners in only about 15% of my games

Anytime I get solo since Surtr's release I've just played baron cuz I wasn't dealing with his broken ass. Barons 3 stops him from being able to W key and confirms my combo which heals any poke dmg he did and my ult stops him from ulting me under tower. Completely countered and it's still a hard matchup. If I ever miss my 3 he's definitely doing half my health in no time.

A potential fix is to make his 1 scale more exclusively with his stacks, as it would force players to sacrifice the speed of their clear to secure stacks.

Play cuculin into him if against him you will literally farm him since he gets you in big mode so easily plus your one has built in antiheal

I love Surtr, because I can finally play Ah Puch solo now! Absolutely hard-counters him

Ive had great luck against surtrs with wukong. By lvl 5 two abilities is all it takes to clear that wave and the rest is an even matchup

Controversial, but maybe re-tool his passive? The comparison you brought up between Surtr’s passive and Hercules’ 3 is a good one and maybe those kinds of effects (heal-on-hit) shouldn’t be on a passive at all. I understand Horus gets prots and a heal after taking damage, but it isn’t nearly as many as Surtr and there’s a delay on the heal so that passive seems balanced. But Surtr definitely needs an adjustment. I don’t think any god in the game should be as strong as he is currently at level 1. It’s a bit much.

Surtr, in my experience, is really easy to stop, because he has no movement. His only escape option is his ult, which can be followed. So, who is the best counter? In my opinion, it's Horus. Now, Horus is generally considered a pretty weak solo laner, but his strong cc combo, variety of movement abilities, self and other healing, and ult that can easily chase an escaping surtr, allows him to handedly win the lane against the fire giant.

I played a lot of warriors axe surtur when the year 10 patch dropped because I wanted to see if any other starter besides bluestone was going to be viable in the laning phase and I can 100% attest to the fact that his clear isn't as insane without it, which isn't a surprise or anything blue stone in most of it's year 10 forms has been nuts and almost required until the mitigation build became a problem. But the reason I bring it up is because playing with the build path of maxing the 3 first like most surtr players seem to do (i'm more of a yeet leveler myself) is that a lot of the pressure you accumulate becomes hard to capitalize on the moment you take bluestone out of the equation. The damage from ember walk becomes a lot more managable to fight into, his buff secure is questionable, and his main way of clear requires you have enough position to capitalize on the 2 explosion damage which with minion ai can be kind of jank and the problem of fighting into him can literally be mitigated by doing what you are supposed to do in those situations which is not fighting him and taking a couple of Ls to come back in the mid/late game. Don't get me wrong his numbers very much need adjustment but personally my issue is the current itemization. Change or remove bluestone, create a meta where hybird builds (not items) can be effective past 20 minutes and you'll start to notice how underwhelming surtrs kit is. Low utility/conditional utility, easily dogpiled and requires a lead to be effective in the mid to late game. that early pressure is really all the character has at the moment and I think it'd be a shame to gut a character because people just don't know how to play into early pressure. Besides you know how many people even in ranked don't know hot to capitalize on the early game pressure they get. I'd say being able to effectively rotate means you know what you are doing and are being rewarded for playing smart. But of course that's my opinion.

So i was playing hades in assault, they had a surtr and 3 other physicals, and a cthulu who only built protection (and none of the damagy ones either) so i bought some physical protections, to about 200 prots. And surtr was STILL bursting me for 800-1000 damage, despite having no pen, like one item with power, and only glad shield as damage. I didnt think he was broken until recently, yeah he’s a problem lol

I've played a lot of Solo matches against Surtr, and yes, he is that much of a monster. But a Sylv with Death Tools will clear and push Surtr back under his tower 9 out of 10 times on early. Verdant Growth and Wisp are a dangerous combo on early stages.

Thank you!! I finally understand why he tanks the minions and still kills me!

It's honestly his 3. It's a very good dive ability. Especially if you have no leap

I'm a bad warrior player(I like Mages), but I have never performed so well with any god as I have with Surtr. He is absolutely ridiculous.

Personally I think he's fine as he is, his early game Prots from his protections do need to be touched on. But he's fine, as a king arthur player I find him quite easy to out pressure and kill. Given the new anti heal item changes he's not as bad as first perceived. Yeah new players can and will find him extremely oppressing. But it's easy to stick to your guns and zone him out with your ranged poke. If he has his 1 up lead him to wave so he hits the wave and you're safe from his magic damage poke. for 2 just juke it out. Yeah it'll be hard to juke out reliably against a good player, but given that it's only minions and the child that go through wave and have a slower travel time in return it's easier to avoid that. If you know you're gonna get hit alot by it. Just get Contagion For his 3 if he's trying to box you. I'd say go nuts. You can get in the way of his orbs if you constantly turn clockwise with since that's how they drop on rotation, that way you body block his orbs and prevent his sustain plus prot gain. This has worked for me and made it not exactly a breeze but bearable to box him. As for his ult given the way it's fundamentally designed, don't have jung gank. The easiest way to get it out is simply outplaying and pressuring the surtr harder than he can out pressure you. Yes he snow balls hard but if he falls behind a little, the game gets very painful for Surtr. And thus he'll always Ult to safety in lane. Then you can get Jung to gank and kill him. Again this is from my personal experience and my Elo isn't enormously high. So to those who think about replying, tell me what works for you.

As a Tyr solo I don’t really struggle that much against Surtr.

The problem with surtur is his ability to overpower almost every warrior in solo with wave clear and it almost makes you force to play a different role in solo and if you do then you will be forced to build a certain way sense you would be very squishy early game and even if you have anti heal nothing changes much against surtur so I think the problem lies in his three again even after it was nerfed it was still ridiculous or nerf his passive to lower the amount or speed that his passive spawns of those rocks sense that's what seems to be the problem sense his 3 automatically picks them up and why he's so oppressive against other warriors

In my opinion surtr has one of the easiest if not the easiest kit to start a team rush as his entire kit is about being aggressive and sustain, he has a hard time escaping though as once his 3 runs out all he has is him ult and possible relics to help him out

hades kinda eat his ass in lane (faster wave clear, and has to ult hades ult to get out so he becomes gankable) so its not even the strongest laner and considering how much nerf all warriors already took this season i would prefer to see no nerf on him, instead i would like to see some buff to other warriors to make them viable

this is the only time i actually LIKE contagion because it just drives surtr into the dirt. however he still has a lot of abilities to make him trade well, his passive wants him to trade, his autos hit hard and he's always doing damage in an aoe, he'll probably ALSO build contagion because let's be real all solo's build contagion... it doesn't help that in general solo lane (and support) is the weakest right now after all the nerfs to it and huge buffs to others.

whens the on buff for every hunter?

Been waiting for this one

If you are solo against him just pick hades and you can bully him really hard I don’t even ban him in ranked anymore because I’m like 12-2 as hades vs him. If your going to try this you just have to let him push you until lvl 5 then you can fight back

I wonder who at hi rez put better bell passive in the game and thought it would be fine

His passive and stun are the most OP imo. A near instant ranged stun just sucks to fight into.

Everyone: "Surtr is a broken solo laner" Cu Chullain: am I a joke to you

i love your surtr gameplay just absolutely dumpstering the thana

I feel like smite keeps trying to make everything more complex as a way to keep people interested. But that just leads to them making even more dominant and ridiculously OP gods or builds. "oh we didn't see a lot of anti-heal in SPL, so now you can have 90% anti-heal with contagion and a beatstick" If you want an example. Just look at any of the newest gods ability descriptions... And then look at Hun Batz

Me: *watches video* : yeah i agree with his insane waveclear. Also me: *only plays arena right now* :D

“when the child is being thrown” 5:29 Awh yes sutru THE CHILD THROWER!

In all my experience with laning against a Surtr I don’t find it to be that bad. You just buy some anti heal, let him W key his life away, and then go do what you need to do.

He does well early-mid with bluestone and his 3. (especially if he's building ability lifesteal.) Super oppressive if you get near him. But late game he gets pooped on (in my experience) by any kind of ranged mage or hunter. I've found that kiting him with ranged poke keeps him away. If he can't get close to you, he can't hurt you. Anti-heal is also a huge help obviously.

Bro I'm almost at a star on the OG fire giant and I couldn't be more happy lol

I dont really mind him since he is really strong early but pretty mid late. In my experience he often gets blown up if the game goes for too long, and given the relatively low impact of solo lane in most games usually surtr's early dominance does not translate into a game-changer either way. If they did significantly nerf his early game theyd have to do something else to make him better late, cause I think he would be quite bad and honestly just unfun to play otherwise. Late game surtr is such a snooze fest to play in my opinion, his engage options just dont feel very good at all.

Tbh, I don't think Surtr is broken. I know a lot of people will probably disagree. But if you build anti heal early, Surtr can't really do much against you because he can't heal. I've fought him in solo a ton pre nerf to his damage and passive heal scale. But because I always have around 90-100% anti heal as a solo laner. He can't out heal my damage. And early game he can't do enough damage to me to beat me in lane

He has the most telegraphed ult in the game, like a worse Nu Wa. It can be useful if you exhaust the enemies movement but overall it is weak. Most mages and hunters can outrange him and backpedal while peeling of his health while he slowly walks towards them - this seems like what the passive is for. He's strong but isn't on my list of OP characters.

Video idea also, get your viewers to send in fails and react to them :)

Nice to have everything laid out like this, when he first came in the game I got pooped on with all of my good solos. Nike is great against him tho.

the only thing that frustrates me about surtr is the ult is undodgeable. i really wish controlling the meteor felt more “stiff”

i wouldnt mind an auto attack chain rework like they did with daji, the cleave autos are what make him absurdly oppressive. Tyr uses a 1 handed giant sword and swings horizontally and doesnt get cleave autos, why did they give them to Surtr. if they made his attack chain like 1-0.5-1.5 dmg where he does an overhead swing, followed by a slightly faster hilt hit to reposition the sword over his shoulder, then a 2 handed downward swing that would be cool looking and balance him out. on the last swing, give him a small aoe burst if they really want him to have cleave. like +2 meters in a small circle that deals 0.25 auto damage so the cleave has to be hard committed. being so early in the chain makes it too strong when coupled with the rest of his kit. Nike has early cleave autos, but her clear can be interrupted by silences and stuns so she can be counter picked hard, plus it takes along time for her to dish all three slaps out so early cleave works for her. Osiris has late cleave so he has to commit to it and cant AA cancel to generate a ton of pressure. Mulan has late cleave but she has 2 powerful abilities for wave clear. Surtr can just cancel his last auto in the chain and repeat the early cleave twice with his 1 and his 2, while pumping poke dmg with his 3 into the enemy god in the early game, while sustaining and getting increased protections, while proccing Regrowth if he wants that item so every wave he can just rush you while his 3 kills the wave once you start pushing midgame and hes already up 2 levels. Plus regrowth has good stats on top of a great passive. side note: alot of people saying "you just dont know how to fight Surtr just do XYZ and its freelo" type remarks. seems like its mostly plat and below opinions. once you start pushing into mid upper diamonds and playing against streamers and pros then thats when Surtr just nukes the lane. ya, playing against highly skilled players is gonna have issues on any god, but when the god is clearly overtuned and the player is really good on top of that, thats when it becomes relevant. the games not balanced around mid ranks, its balanced around the top end with mid ranks being considered partially

surtr: My early game perssure and clear are unmatched i am solo lane hades: allow me to introduce myself

I hope y’all know herc counters surtr passive

There’s a common trend of hirez releasing op warriors… gilg, shiva, now surtr

Oh look, this is the second game with a surtr problem.

I subscribed just for that Will Smith comment alone! hahaha

I like how hi rez doesn't seem to care how broken Surtr is xd

I personally love the god now with that said. He does have the strongest early game of any warrior. With a good late game. The thing is I actually dont think surtr should be nerfed in early game I think the other warriors should get early game specific buffs as surtr clears lane quick and starts boxing fast if all the warriors could clear lane just as fast early there would be more fighting in lane witch would be more fun. Also I started earlier that surtr was strongest warrior but yamir actually destroys surtr in solo for the most part. U wait till surtr 3 is finished freezing him hit him with yamir 2 and auto the crap out of surtr Yamir also makes ganks possible against surtr as you freeze him and throw both your kits on him and he dies. I'd say if thay do nurf surtr make his ultimate take longer to cast and maybe make it so you can stun him out of it. Making him more gankable while still keeping that strong lane clear.

as a casual player, havent seen him be a huge issue(though I do counter-build) but I've tried to Play him and haven't found how to make him op

I think its an overxageration, yeah he could get a small nerf and still be a good option as a solo laner, I dont think he needs a nerf

Inters3ct not that it matters but what’s your mmr in ranked conquest? I’m hard capped in silver but it’d be cool to know what I’d need to grind until to see you in a lobby😄

Nerfs to the landing phase only

Can you do an Assault rant for Ah Puch and Ah Muzen Cab? Could be hilarious

I agree with you and find him frustrating. if the make his ultimat slower to fly away and make his clear les efficient i think he be okay

he’s definitely a hyper lane bully, but he doesn’t stand out that much more than most warriors late game, if you’re hitting his stun and burning beads he’s great, but junglers and hunters are hitting very hard late game even mages too so by that point if he gets caught out and has to ult he can either be burned or can be caught up to. he does very well in teams with a lot of hard cc tho, i’m definitely not saying he’s anywhere near bad late game.

Kit wise I say his abilities could get the small tweaks to scaling like all god's, but the big thing is the stacks from his passive. If it had a more reasonable max then that would help alot to limit just how good he is. Since Surtr isn't just a conquest problem. Joust and Slash see alot of Surtr traffic as well. The other issue is people have a stigma against anti heal. Alot of people don't seem to want to build it or don't trust it will impact the game heavily. I don't know what heal meta was so bad that people think its better to just truck through with damage, but is must have been real bad to makw the community as a whole ignore anti heal.

As a surtur main there are other warriors who out clear and out punish him

I feel like there's always gonna be something someone feels the need to address when It comes to this game. Earlier in the seasons, it was Mulan. Now it's Surtr.

I love playing as him

Are we forgetting about guan yu here?

Feels weird being here early (I never played him )

I think surtr is fuckin great. He does have some weaknesses against certain gods but his sustain is so good and if you pick up deaths toll for your starter it's crazy how much early damage he does too.

I’m convinced intersect doesn’t know how to play around surtr lol

Yea but have u played 24/7 transformed cu chulainn yet

I've yet to lose a lane to surtur all because of souleater. I'm a Bellona main but I've also marked him with cuchulain,vamana,Hercules, but mostly Bellona. I'm not saying I've won every game though, cuz it's hard to peel him off squishies but I dominate him in lane

Odds are if something stacks infinitely its gonna be broken

I didn't know hes op i bearly see him in joust

I have not had much of an issue with Surtr the times that I have faced him in lane because i have played him before and knew to counter build and play careful. Like the herc issue a lot of the issues comes down to people not understanding how the god either works or how to play against them. I remember old herc and always built anti heal against him to deal with him regardless of the role. A big factor as to why gods like Surtr get away with so much is people either picking poor match ups, not taking into account the enemy they are facing, and/or not building correctly. Though the release Surtr I think was too much with his passive. Being able to out right break the game is not okay. People do not build anti heal most of the time unless the pros include it into their build. Most people just auto buy or just follow a build and stick to it fanatically without ever being adaptable.

His ultimate basically guaranteeing that at least one squishy will be out of commission for a teamfight is just crazy. They should reduce the amount of time he spends in the air, thereby nerfing his mobility.

CAN I GET A HOY YAH SURTR DADDY

Keep in mind Fafnir's passive gives him up to 25 of each prot, while Surtur's is 78 at lvl 20. If we equate Fafnir's passive gold gain to be equal to Surtur's heal, and Fafnir was released today with similar stat bloat, imagine how it would be getting a free ~80 prots on a guardian.

The Surtr tanking the phoenix shots is from PTS, not release Surtr***

while his laning phase is insane, his late game team fighting is average at best. Hes very easy to kill late, maybe thats just the case with any solo lane tank when you dont have sigil though.

I still think a late game hyper tank like lol nasus is the right approach. Nerf a lot of his early but make his late astronomically terrifying. Ragnerok is coming is his lore afterall

Me an Ah Puch Main: I believe he’s perfectly balance. While going anti healing on Solo Lane and winning the majority of the confrontation lol

Thanks.

Surtur fun as hell

So he's going to be like yemoja but as a warrior? Keep throwing nerfs his way and then just give up on it?

I've managed to out-pressure surtr with artio and some anti heal without having to try too hard. I think if ppl would just build properly and stop holding the w key against him they'd see he's not as crazy as thought

His passive needs an internal cooldown, and his 3 needs to do a little bit less damage (at least at rank 1). Also buff Chaac rank 1 so that the other "laning" solo laner can compete.

I like how on release people were more quick to think 'No he's not OP. After all this waiting for FG he can't be OP' Well....

I'm just a lowly gold ranked player at the moment but anytime I see a surtr get picked for solo I just go guan yu, build axe into contagion into glad shield and have never had an issue with getting out pressured by surtr. They all typically burst their 1 and 2 onto a wave to clear it but of you dash through surtr to group the wave then hit your talo assault you both end up starting at each other deciding whether to jerk each other off or go clear jungle camps and wait to do it all over again. He doesn't seem very oppressive to me you just have to pick into him

I don't play conquest, it's too toxic much of the time, but agree he's too strong, esp early.

Tbh, if there's a single God that'd op? I'd want it to be him ❤

I'm a hardcore warrior main in most game modes actively. I love all of them and Surtr is not an exception. He's strong, yes but it's season 10's first god, the long awaited fire giant arrived. Nerfs will incoming as with Gilga and other OP warriors. Still better than the Mulan release....

Please for the love of god make a video about anti heal there isn’t a tab for it so I swear most people just don’t think it exists. Like I currently couldn’t tell you if there is a good hunter antiheal

It would be pretty tragic to see his mid and late game get nerfed, but yeah his lvl 1-13 is broken and unbalanced.

Thre are 2 problems with surtr 1. His laning is opressive 2. His ult is basically a "get out of jail free" card

Everything had to be an issue XD

But I like Surtr, therefore his over-poweredness is perfectly acceptable :)

Me loves to play Surtr :D Got Mastery 10 already and he is my new main. Yay Surtr new god

just from reading the comments, i think surtr is fine for the most part, maybe slight reductions. everyone who is fine with him goes "yea i built anti-heal and beat him" and everyone who thinks he's too much is saying "yea i tried to rush damage/protection items to box him and lose" i think theyre are genuine problems that need to be fixed with characters sometimes, but a lot of the issues i see people bring up are just refusal to counter build because then they can't 1 v 1 whoever