THE THUNDER WARRIOR WORLD EATER! THE RIDDLE OF ENDRYD HAAR! 

another alternative could be that the experiment was NOT a success and this dude was the only one that barely made it

Imagine being member of Endryd Haar's Blackshield warband, you casually sits around the campfire and he randomly pulls out "Yeah i fought during Unification Wars" and you're like "You what?"

I think it's possible that the method of updating Thunder Warriors to the Astartes standard had a 99% failure rate and Endryd Haar simply beat the odds.

Haar was stable; Consider: He was one of the first initiates of the XII legion before they were even the War Hounds. That's 200 years more or less before the heresy. In that time, he was made a captain, suggesting that he had his shit together enough to command troops, for that matter troops as notoriously difficult to control as Angron's line. Not to mention, how many Wold Eaters even MAKE IT to 200 years old?? (Yes, yes, Khorne/warp fuckery not withstanding.) Thunder boi was just impossible to kill. It was the news of the heresy that drove him beyond sanity.

The riven hound! In saturnine he came very, VERY close to killing abbadon. Crushing his helmet and breaking his skull. Abby even remarking he took several killing stabs and eventually a blade through the brain before finally succumbing.

Haar was an absolute wrecking machine throughout the blackshield stories; He deserved a better end than what he got in the siege of Terra novels.

This is what a legendary Astartes warrior had to say about meeting Haar in mortal combat. This is from Abaddon himself at the Saturnine gambit; "The Riven Hound (Haars nickname) slammed Abaddon into the wall. Bricks shattered. Abaddon felt bones break and organs rupture. Haar was size and brute strength. There was no skill to speak of. Just beautiful fury, like one of Russ’ pack-dogs, or Angron’s thug Khârn. A wall of strength that crushed everything before it. The Blackshield had him by the throat. Haar took six or seven of Abaddon’s kill-thrusts in the belly and chest, and refused to die. Just refused. His strength seemed to grow as the blood wept out of him."

Haar crossed the Rubicon Astartes? Neat!

Autek Mor was probably another thunder warrior turned Astartes. I think the thunder warriors were some of the first Astartes test and success.

i think he was an exception to the rule. i think the emperor tried to save as many of them as he could, but the rest were so effed up from fighting the horrors of old night that there was no way they could be normal around humanity at large. seems he knew malcador from somewhere so that's probably what's up

Who says things went wrong? What if HAAR was so horribly right it was too much

Big though for your mother Rho. Thanks for another sweet more about thunders warriors , i enjoyed it so much! I am currently build a scratchbuild conversion of a thunders warriors army . Thanks you!

It sounds almost like the origin to become a Primaris. What if he , the Emperor, was working on a way to up grade his new Astates warriors but found he didn't have it quite correct when using it on the Thunder Warriors. He did give a formula to Corax and he used it for the Raven Guard and they really were Primaris.

The Plot Thickens This Little Character and Those Like Him Are Really what Makes 40K Great

Hope your mom is doing well! Thanks for the video! Hydra Dominatus!

Double Primarch week and one of them is Fulgrim... Perfection!

They made the Minotaurs chapter out of the gene seed made from the world eater thunder warrior. He was an experiment and it was successful. There could be other thunder warrior astartes out there mixes in chapters

If Endryd Haar is a Thunder Warrior being attempted to be indoctrinated as an Astardes. The only reason is maybe both the Emperor and Malcador both felt he was an exception to the greater whole of the stereotypical Thunder Warrior. Perhaps it is Endryd himself that maybe the Emperor saw a potential and wanted to see if in fact a Thunder Warrior could thrive in a legion such as the World Eaters. Perhaps if a Thunder Warrior could be honed, then maybe someone like Endryd might have been the proto candidate to dawn Terminator armor. To go from mere Thunder Warrior, to shock troopers in Terminator armor, or wounded in Dreadnaughts as well. Making them as reformed and refurbished assets to the Astardes legions. 🤨🧐😏

He could have been a conversion attempt or could have been one of the first SM's that was the in-between TW and SM that managed to survive. Doesn't Cawl have a primarus like that? The first to survive but not perfected.

FINALLY A VIDEO ABOUT MY FAVORITE CHARACTER IN WARHAMMER Anyhow I am suprised yo didnt talk about the part in his last audio drama Blackshields Broken Chain when he is being analysed by a sons of horus apothecary the apothecary sees the tatto and Endryd says: We all had one. SOH: All? Endryd: My brothers and I. SOH: Hmm the War Hounds. Endryd: No Apothecary not War Hounds my first brothers. Before there were Hounds or Wolves for that matter. SOH: Hah and what happened to these brothers ? Endryd: I KILLED THEM LIKE I WILL KILL YOU! THEN ENDRYD ENDRYD HAARS ALL OVER THE PLACE AND TAKES THE SHIP ALL BY HIMSELF AND HIS BEST ERUD VAHN

There will come a "Thunder Warrior"-geneseed chapter at some point. Games Workshop can't say no to the income possibility. Some obscure chapter, lost on some homeworld, hidden somewhere super secret, perhaps lost and reachable because of the Great rift. Thunder Warriors will return!

Well wait.... if the Emperor considered him a failure because he was angry, then what must he thought of Angron and his actions? Did he look at him and think "well.... damn. "

Do you think there's the potential that Tyberos the red wake could also be of Thunder warrior heritage, one his stature and physique, two his brutal fighting style, three his lightening claws Hunger and slake being archeotech weapons that came from either before or during the unification wars, four there questionable gene seed and five the caracharodons (unless lore as changed) know for using cryo sleep chambers.

My idea is, if you have blank new astartes legions, who can train them, maybe Emperor save some thunder wariors for this reason, as dril instruktors for new legion to make them killing kiling machines

I would expect Haar was more of a marginal success due to Agrons gene coding trying to amplify his rage that his discipline was acustomed to controlling. The Thunder warriors inbuilt resistance to psyker would have been a coin toss if it would help or hinder their upgrades. Those who could have been modified would have been during the early adoption of the designs of proto legions for command units. The thunder warriors that were purged might be the unviable members. What's not to like about a tech Marine that was once a thunder warrior. Many converts would have blended in nicely in several legions. Many legions had companies that weren't quite right , would be a plausible reason that they were thunder warrior convert's. The space sharks are a great example of what that would have presented as during the great crusade.

Hope your parent made a full recovery and the situation is better. Many thanks for this one, always been one of my favourite characters.

I’ve been waiting years for lorgar week from you rho years so I’m so pumped for it

I would pay good money for GW to write/fill in the blanks on his origins. So many great potential storylines especially after all the direct hints that he is one. It wouldn’t be so far fetched to think the emperor may have used the thunder warriors against each other and Haar was one of the last ones loyal ones standing. Would be a great explanation for how they were wiped out. Valdors book seemed to indicate that they were mostly killed off by the time the astartes were ready. That would be a tall task for just the custodes.

Haar was not the only example of a converted Thunder Warrior. He was one of the very scant few to survive to the current time. However, the Emperor, constantly charging forward as he did, did not want to take the time to develop the corrective measures needed too make Thunder Warriors into "Thunder Astartes". At most, "Thunder Astartes" were able to live much longer. But their temperaments were not or could not be quelled. Also, being massively PO'd about their numbers being culled so ruthlessly, being betrayed, would have a LOT to do with that. At least, not without the time and resources, sunk into the Great Crusade, needed to do so. Trayzen probably has a couple of "Thunder Astartes" in his collection, I am sure.

Personal, I think Harr was the one success, and that other Thunder Warriors becoming Astartes were tried, but failed. I dont even think it's a matter of time and resources. I would guess the instability Harr exhibits was even worse in the others, and unpredictably so on top of that. There are plenty of savage Space Marines, but they're controllable in that savagery, just like Harr. The others likely seemed to work at first, but would snap and go on rampages after a time. After that first test batch, the idea was dropped and the Thunder Warriors culled instead, with Harr being placed with the World Eaters, where his acceptable level of flaw would fit in.

Wish your parent a very speedy recovery, Rho!!

Fascinating character is Arik Taranis; i wonder if he could make it to 41th millenium thanks to his genetic lab and knowledge. If yes a new book where he get his hands on primaris stuff would be so cool 😊

Hes not a Thunder Warrior, hes a World Eater from their Alpha draw, which is were a select few legionaires were made from each Legion in a master crafted manner vs a mass production manner..these marines are somewhere between a marine and custode , there were five World Eaters only Marr was still alive at the time of the Heresy. This is in the Black Book with the Alpha Legion and there is the suggestion that the Alpha Legion had many many such marines working as the Emperors secret police, this also goes a long way to explain the great degree in size variation amongst them.

Only just heard you say about your family, sorry to hear and hope they are recovering or even recovered with any luck.

I wish there was more about the thunder warriors. The idea that they were bigger stronger and more aggressive than astartes makes me want to make a kill-team of them.

cawl might be able to utilize the thunder warrior gene science

Interesting that it would seem the emperor didn’t want to throw away his thunder warriors outright, but that he simply couldn’t adjust them, and Haar was the only one that was somewhat successful. Kinda makes the thunder warrior’s eradication a bit more tragic too, knowing that the emperor tried to avoid wiping them out entirely.

There is the process used to enhance those who were too old to become Astartes, eg Luther, Kor Phaeron. Perhaps he was either an attempt to preserve the Thunder Warriors through similar gene tech, or a willing test for that process to see what it would do. Perhaps the process was used on those too old was a lesser version of what the Thunder Warriors were

Four weak specials? I'd rather have one great special.

Wishing all the best and a fast recovery to your family member pal

A thought: we do not know exactly what sort of processes the thunder warriors had generally. What if the improvements the Belasarius Cawl has added to the primaris are in fact adapted improvements originally from thunder warriors, that the emporer tried to implement early on but simply didnt have the time or available attention to dedicate to working out the issues. Additionally, we have seen quite a number of exceptionally old and large astartes before and durring the herresy, with most of them seeming to vanish into the woodwork. What if these potential hybrid warriors, these prototypes, were gathered up by Cawl and the Primaris are a refined derivative of these prototype warriors. If this is correct, perhaps the thunder warriors largely refused to be expiramented upon? We have seen the risks of the crossing of the rubicon primaris-which took Cawl multiple millenia of uninterupted labor to work out and has only JUST NOW finally gotten to get it reliable enough to actually use en mass-and they would have needed to undergo something similar albiet reversed and completely unimproved. Perhaps they, or the emporer, balked at an eye wateringly high failure and decided either that oblivion was preferable to a nearly garanteed horrific death on the operating table. Or perhaps they didn't, and the demise of the thunder warriors in a final battle is another of the emporer's lies, and the majority of them perished ingloriously upon the slab, with the battle of mount Ararat being recorded instead as their final stand. This would make Endrid Haar a sort of Super Astartes, the real end goal of what the empoer intended the astartes to be and what they might yet become. I suppose now it is a race between Belasarius Cawl and Fabious Bile to see who figures out how to do what the emporer couldnt first.

First, Haar was more a War Hound, than a World Eater. Second, he says he got the tattoo along with his brothers when they joined up. Suggesting it might have been a thing young warriors did when they joined the Thunder Warriors. Finally, we have no evidence that Haar was full fledge Thunder Warrior. It would make more sense that he was in the last group to be enhanced into Thunder Warriors in EoM hot house gene labs on Terra near the end of the Unification Wars. But for unknown reasons was instead moved into the proto-Astartes program after what appears to be only first set of Thunder Warrior enhancements. Since we have lore that states some proto-Astartes fought in last major battles of the Unification Wars. Its just been assumed by some that these were proto-Dark Angel First Legion. But we known proto-Salamanders aka the 18th legion then known as the Dragon Warriors fought in final battle against the Ethnarch of the Caucasus. In fact many of Terran born legionnaires of the early Astartes legions during the Great Crusade seem to all share a bloody, brutal and bellicose nature. Not that dissimilar to Haar, though that could be a side effect of their Terran Techno-Barbarian tribes they originated from. Which oh Gods Light and Dark of 40k novels, do we need desperately need a Unification War books series like HH ones.

I have watched and waited years for a lorgar special, death to the corpse emperor!!!

What if the Minotaurs were made from Haar some how

Sorry to hear about your parent in hospital mate, hope they get well soon!

"I cant belive the captin remembered my birthday!!!!"

Your the best x hope your family is ok, it’s a difficult time so a big thank you for your continued brilliance

0:33 "We gonna do two." Me: Alpharius?

best wishes to your folks, rho

well, Fulgrim and the Thunder Warriors have something in common : They both can take multiple Astartes at the same time

I think this is proof positive that there are plenty of Thunder Warriors out there. Enough to make an angry faction. . . . . oooh that's a good idea.

as the astartes, also and more, the thunder warriors are tools for the corpse E, he doesnt care for them, he created them, they were usefull for a reason and outlived their usefullness, if one was found worthy to go to the next stage then so be it, but the mass was just discarded

Maybe haar was present at cerberus, either a prisoner of the other thunder warriors and freed by the world eaters, or possibly the world eaters fought him to a standstill and offered him a place in the legion

Love you rho, thoughts and prayers out to your family mate

Maybe the terran born were actually upgraded thunder warriors. And another thought is maybe the loyal traitors were thunder warriors.

I wonder if Tiberous Redwake of the Carchardons is a secret thunder warrior.

I know there’s not a lot of lore on them yet but I was curious if you’d be doing any videos on the Leagues of Votann? Do you like the space dwarfs?

I’m sending prayers for your family during these difficult times. Thank you so much for such incredible content!

Another question is when does the psycho-indoctrination end? Does a captain still go through it? Does a chapter master? Are thry allowed to tailor it to their roles within the chapter or depending on how heroic they are?

Cheers Rho!🎉

Wishing your parents a speedy recovery.

I wonder if we are taking the culling of Thunder Warriors for granted a tad bit too much... I wouldn't put it past the Emperor to have those wo have proven loyal and stable to have their bodies, minds and/or memories altered to fit into the early astartes legions or to be used in some other way, and in that case there could have been entire groups of thunder warriors who could have not only survived, but maybe even actively participated in eradicating their less stable or less loyal kin...

Great video

You know i don't find the notion that the emperor may have taken a few thunder warriors and tried to mix astarties genetics in with them to be unreasonable or improbable

Everybody wins! Can't wait for Lorgar week.

A legion of TW Astartes would have been incredibly effective.

Hope your family recovers asap 🙏

This was a good vid Ro nj

I think the Riven Hound is more of an analog to Calas Typhon, except the expected turning never came and Khorne settled with Kharn.

Haar needs a model to be honest

There have been numerous indications that there was Big-U and Little-U unity, and while some of the fiction and apocrypha indicates that Terra was completely pacified and unified under the Emperor before he disposed of the Thunder Warriors, there is canonical source material indicating that astartes from several legions *_did_* fight on Terra during the Unification Wars and the Raptor Imperialis and Lightning Bolt badges are acceptable markings and decorations for the war kit of Legionnaire Unification War veterans per the source books. This is just another example of the baked-in unreliable-narrator so often put in display in this property, poor editing, or the left-hand not paying attention to what the right-hand is doing.

The XV-88 is getting too gundamy in the artwork. I still think they look great but they should look more boxy and angular. They keep making them thinner and taller. The squater looking battle suits look more unique and their own thing that's separate from Japanese animation. Also, they should use the MA. K Machinen Krieger the German mecha modeling kits for inspiration. The smaller ones- especially- are like somewhere between power armor and mecha/ mobile suit.

I’m still curious if anyone has done a video about how many astartes that were on terra when the primarchs were in their tubes and were they all made from a gene of the primarch? Were they designated to legion or was it one big group? What was the plan if the primarchs hadn’t been scattered? Would they all have a home fortress on terra?

This is why wh40k will always be the goat sci-fi universe for me

A bigger question is how that would even be possible. They dont even change normal dudes into Astartes, so how could one already gene tampered be changed? I dont like exceptions to rules like this.

Big chungus the murder edition

It could be that the original thunder warriors headed to the warp, whether to destroy the traitor legions or to fight from them under a World Eaters banner

There's no way the Riven Hound is not a Thunder Warrior, At the very least a Thunder Warrior that the Emperor took his time with

If Firstborn can go Primaris, then why can't Thunder Warriors go Firstborn? And if anyone can take a square peg and shove it through a round hole, it's gonna be the World Eaters. Surgeon > "Sir the organs don't fit!" World Eaters Apothecary > "MAKE THEM FIT" Theory > The World Eaters were impressed at the Thunder Warriors of the Dait'Tar and decided to try and induct the survivors into their legion.

new video nice

Argel Tal got done dirty 😶

Seems to me GW might have missed a chance to shake things up... The space Marines got Primaris. It's believed that chaos will to at some point. Why not give Chaos something else from the Imperiums past, Thunder Warrior. Steer into the Emperor betrayed them and Chaos embraced them and promised to extend their lifespan in exchange for services. Seems appropriate that Chaos would get a larger sledge hammer. And seems to fit Khorne...

If the Emperor has a tool that still works, even if that tool is a thunder warrior, he'll use it.

I like to think Big E did try to save the Thunder warriors but only newer ones were salvagable as they could have bein put in the legions

I'd rather be a Thunder Warrior than an Astartes. Nothing like Fighting for the Emperor and Suddenly Explode Internally due to MASSIVE Tumors! 😆 OH and Psychotic tendencies 😅

Surely the Emperor still had thunder warrior samples at his laboratory and could have just modified them

Are there any T'au novels on Audible?

The Emperor could be heartless and merciless smh first he created the thunder warriors knowing they were not perfect and decided to end them instead of fixing them

There was probably a place for the thunder warriors in the great crusade, even if only as shock troops in the worst of situations, but big E doesn’t see his people as much more than tools. And that particular set had outworn its use.

maybe they were too powerful... Endryd Haar did kill custodes in 1 v 1 fights. The custodians were the Emperor's bodyguards.. Now if the Emperor truly knew the heresy would happen in one form or another would he have wanted an army of space marines like Haar who were capable of beating custodes like that? Assuming that all Thunder Warriors converted into Astartes would have turned out like Haar ofc, but I have no reason to believe otherwise. I mean the survival rate of Astartes is not exactly 100% either (and they were "new"), so the time factor is no valid explanation for me. I find it more likely the astartified Thunder Warriors were deemed too powerful (or maybe they were all aggressive like Haar. On the topic of his permanent rage.. It has been stated throughout the lore that the gene seed confers some kind of metaphysical connection between astartes and their gene sire. Since Angron had fallen to Chaos I don't find it so far-fetched this still had some effect on loyalist marines from the traitor legions

Could he have been a failed Custodes?

Or the first primaris marine

What novel was the malcador dialogue in?

I know who Endryd Haar is pretty good audio dramas

Praying for your parent ❤

Given all the facts, Endryd Haar is Def a thunder warrior

They should redcon Endryd Haar fate to keft for dead and actually ended up in a coma and still out their some were 😊

instead of destroying the thunder warriors i would of put them in stasis and used them in the siege of terra

Hope your Mum gets better soon.

The emperor didnt plan to use astartes its what left of his primarchs geneseed his generals to lead the armies of mankind meaning he lost his greatest weapons before the unification of terra he then created the 1st legion which with the custodes wiped the thunder warriors out-of history perhaps they were meant to co exist with primarchs and man before diaster and the warp whisked away his ultimate plan