I find the game changes so much from table to table there is plenty of room for a diversity of opinions. That being said, I never miss content from this channel and find it useful very often. Thanks for providing superb content!
I think a lot of people love Pass w.o Trace because a lot of dms (or at least a lot of the ones that I've played with) run it that if ONE person in the party fails the stealth check, everyone gets found out. And since we're rolling 4-7 die, theres a really good chance at least one person rolls low. That said, love the vid as always!
Awesome to see AID make it so high in your list. It has been a lifesaver. I use three 4th Level slots to cast it on our large party. Also, in a recent battle, one of our characters had just 87 hp. The BBEG did Power Word Kill and it would have worked normally, but because our Cleric had cast AID at 4th Lvl earlier in the day, nothing happened. We had actually forgotten it was cast, but thankfully when the party member looked at their sheet and saw the +20 Aid marked on it, they basically laughed in the face of the BBEG. It was a clutch moment for sure.
Please do more videos like this. This type of video may seem cheesy but other similar videos I use as a reference tool and you mentioning combos for each is extremely helpful. Other videos sometimes waste a bunch of time with comparing bad spells to the top 10 but you are super concise!
Forgot to mention with suggestion that the target needs to be able to hear and understand you, limiting its use IC for a lot of enemies. For out of combat unless you can hide or subtle spell it then you do need to be alone/ the target remembers you aiming a spell at them. And very much like rope trick I tend to not pick it up as you can cheese a story too much with it, derailing something that might have been interesting otherwise. For summon beast the 200gp component is worth a mention as some DMs are cheap.
Having played a PC in the TFC with at least half the spells on this list, I would put Vortex Warp at my #1 without question. I have used it in *every* mission so far, and every time it has literally saved the day. i actually place Vortex Warp above ALL other spells on my lists, of any level. I'm considering ditching Misty Step, I've only ever cast it once and I've had it way longer.
I fully agree with the #1 slot the only problem is you have to be a Paladin, bard, or have Wish to use it. That is why It usually doesn't make the list.
I think you overlooked Mirror Image, an old staple from way back when that seems to never lose it's potency. Before you go into a rant about how it doesn't work against enemies that don't rely on sight or have truesight or others senses that bypass illusions etc. etc. Think about how many times it does work, especially at lower levels. This spell has saved my bacon many times over as it almost always takes 3 attacks that would have hit you and turns them into misses. Sure, at higher levels you will run into more and more monsters that this doesn't work against. But at the lower levels it should be in everyone's top 3 list of 2nd level spells to take and use. A barroom brawl where 3 of your enemies punches don't land. Or any other kind of skirmish where throughout the fight there will be 3 of your enemies attacks that just miss.
Not a fan of Mirror Image because I consider it a wasted Action in a game where in battle you get an average of 4-5 Actions. It's IMO always better to create control or damage with your Action than mere personal defenses. I cringe when I see allies cast Mirror Image, and salivate when enemies do. Unless you can precast it, of course, which does happen... in that case, it's pretty darned good!
Personally I would not include find steed because of it's general lack of availability. It's basically a 3rd level spell, and has a lot more competition in that sphere.
Great list, I would have placed spiritual weapon higher and ignored find steed not because it isn't the best 2nd level summon BUT it's limited to paladins or 6th level lore bards. That should have made it an honourable mention, not the top spot which goes to misty step and somewhere in there we fit spiritual weapon.
I really like scorching ray because it is just a really good damage dealer which scales well, and stacks with other good spells and abilities. Characters like draconic sorcerers, or warlocks can really benefit from it’s just a reliable damage option than can hold up no matter what level your character, and with some multi classing the damage is insane.
The biggest problem I have with summon beast is the cost, 200gp is out of reach for most level 3/4 PCs, but if the DM gives me 200gp I'll take it. This might just be a problem with the game I play in though since I'm usually broke until level 7 when I start spamming 'fabricate' with tool proficiencies. Also no pyrotechnics? non-concentration heavy obscurement, I get that it's a bit clunky to use but you could just carry a lit torch, or have a tiny servant/skeleton carry one for you. Also what are your thoughts on augury? specifically on a wizard, no need to prepare it and the components are a one time purchase, too DM dependent? Weal and woe too vague?
I very strongly considered Pyrotechnics, as I'm very appreciative of non-concentration Heavy Obscurement, but it's so situational and requires a ton of combo pieces, and its not so simple to just add a good spell when there are so many other contenders trying to make the list as well. I wouldn't argue too hard if one wanted to give it an Honorable Mention and bump one of those, though. I'm actually working on a Deep Dive on Augury, and I'm surprised at how bad it is... I thought it was better, but it has a very short window of use and there are very few scenarios in which it provides useful info.
Yes, more rep for Vortex Warp! Amazing spell, I have been using it lots in my level 18 game, it's even my chosen spell mastery for my simulacrums second level spell, and it has changed the course of the entire battle. Web is also amazing, even in T4 I cast it enough to warrant it as the spell mastery on my main wizard. I find I cast 1-4th level spells more than 5-8th level spells most combats, they are just so good and efficient, why use a high level spell when low level will suffice. I personally would swap Spike Growth and Summon Beast, but I see your choice for it too. I will say, if you have a warlock with repelling blast, this spell becomes a top pick for me. Paired with any form of a constrained environment, and this spell just shreds encounters. It takes some teamwork, but if you have that teamwork it can absolutely be the centerpiece that swings countless combats in your favor.
True, Vortex Warp is such an amazing spell and one of my favourites, especially twinned. Before it even existed I was hoping for a spell like that would come out. Teleports in general are just so useful in a lot of situations and can prevent a lot of harm. I get some Divinity Original Sind 2 fibes from Vortex Warp.
Agreed with all the choices you've made though i have some inputs on some and i think a couple of spells could've made the honorable mentions list: 1. i am one of those players who minimize my own use of rope trick as it's just broken so i use it only when we're losing. if i decided to use it in every battle, we'd never feel challenged because my table typically avoids playing melee characters. i'm a bit confused though. how did you get this on the spellwrought tattoo of artificers? it specifies only common magical items can be created and 2nd level spellwrought tattoos are uncommon. 2. I'm not a big fan of suggestion as you said it's a save or suck spell. i generally avoid save or suck spells once i hit tier 3 where magic resistance and legendary resistance are common place. i never play tier 1 anymore so that influences my view here. 3. i slightly disagree with your assessment of summon beast stopping being useful as summon at level 5. if we factor in the conjure spells, sure but that's something that's different from table to table. as far as the tasha's summon spells, summon beast holds up offense-wise upcasted against the others (all spells at 4th level cast): beast: 1d8 + 8 with advantage (pack tactics) fey: 2d6 + 7 elemental: 1d10 + 8 assuming advantage increases your accuracy by 25%, summon beast is 2.4 dpr ahead of fey and 2.63 dpr ahead of elemental which are both higher level spells. 4, agreed with pass without trace. i consider it a secondary piece for an ambush playstyle. some sore of obscurement is needed 1st like misty visions, invisibility, etc. 5. I disagree slightly with spike growth. the damage ages well with proper forced movement options like repelling blast, grapple+drag, etc along with proper dmg boosts like hexblade's curse (2d4 + prof bonus per 5 ft moved). 6. fyi on find steed. it doesn't work with dragon's breath as per JC. 7. i know you're more defense focused so naturally most of my honorable mentions are more offense focused: a. pyrotechnics-concen free obscurement. combos well with so many stuff like tiny servant, summon draconic spirit, blind fighting style, etc b. scorching ray-best single target dmg spell in the game when combined with proper dmg boosts such as misty visions, hexblade's curse, assassinate, etc c. cloud of daggers-great entry spell that can be combined with forced movement like crusher and decision paralysis stuff like tasha's mind whip, pam, booming blade, etc d. warding bond-great defensive spell to combine with a grappling summon like summon celestial: split the dmg among 2 bodies with refreshing temp hp.
1. I didn't mean Infused Tattoos but real tattoos... in retrospect I should have taken that line out as it applies to a lot of them, I just have it on a Tattoo for my familiar in my TFC Westmarch, so it was on my mind in regards to RT. 3. Fair enough, it's solid. 5. I do like Spike Growth with pushing combos, just not enough to put it into the Top 10. 6. Yeah, and it also doesn't work with Aid, as I said. I get carried away sometimes, lol. 7. I like Pyrotechnics the best of those 4, but yeah, there are like 40 really good 2nd and narrowing them down wasn't easy!
@@Bilbrons-and-Dragons 1. Ah i see. 5. i wouldn't put spike growth in the top 10 either. my point was just to disagree that the dmg doesn't scale well. it does with proper multiclassing. i wouldn't put it either because as you said it doesn't work on flying creatures which become more common at tier 3+. 7. I'd say there's 20-25 only. after looking at your list, adding my honorable mentions i couldn't find anything else that's good outside of mirror image.
So...when are you going to do 3rd level spells?? I mean we already know your top one is (rightly) Phantom Steed, but how about second and third place? Are the tasha summons good enough for second place? Will Spirit Guardians outrank Slow/Hypnotic Pattern??
Great list, thanks for the video! Always refreshing that you won't refrain from deviating from the usual 🙂 One question: did you watch Packtactics video on Summon Beast? Originally, I was as impressed as you are with the spell. And granted, Packtactics mostly talks about DPR while arguably the other benefits are what make this spell stand out at levels 3 and 4. Having said this, the damage doesn't seem to be that strong. What do you think?
I didn't like the video all that much... spells don't become bad just because you can one day cast Conjure Animals, and stating that "ALL the Tasha's Summons are bad and Summon Beast is the best one but also bad" is a very bad take, IMO. I make clear here that SB makes the list for its impact at levels 3/4 (5 if MCing).
I left a reply to that video: "Summon Beast essentially does the standard baseline damage all by itself at levels 3-4, and it's better for it to meat shield 2-3 enemy attacks than a PC (who has similar HP at those levels)... being the equivalent of a 4th Level Cure Wounds just in terms of damage soaking is hardly a condemnation of a 2nd Level spell that also provides offense and utility! It does this with a separate Action Economy so is stacked onto whatever else the Caster contributes... this is a weird take, man."
@@Bilbrons-and-Dragons agreed with your take. That was such a bad take on summon beast. Its not like a majority are allowed to choose their creatures with conjure animals. It doesnt mean either that if conjure animals is better summon beast is a bad spell. Its like saying hypnotic pattern is better so web sucks now.
@@Bilbrons-and-Dragons having played summon beast all the way to level 11+ beastmaster, i can say it does hold up (and if you remember i'm quite focused on offense) numbers wise to the point that i didnt even switch it out for summon fey. Sure conjure animals would've been better but choosing animals is rarely an option at my table.
@@TheRobversion1 Thanks! Yeah, assuming you can choose the animal is quite an assumption, IMO (which makes it pretty clearly OP, albeit more logistically convenient).
Solid spell, but I'm not the hugest fan of it due to the short duration and consequent Action Economy issues. Top 25 though, probably (and there are seriously 40ish good 2nds).
This is excellent! Thank you. Any thoughts on mirror image? I realize it's hard to set up before combat. But seems like a nice non-concentration defense and a good way to protect concentration. Also I like blindness/deafness not as a top 10 but top 20 I think that's a nice concentration free spell that upcasts well. Warding bond I would give top 20 you can precast, splitting damage is nice and boost to AC and saves no concentration.
Let me guess, that original was the DnD Logs? As his top ten lists are always let's say questionable. Even taking table difference into account. He had crown of madness in one of his top tens as one example.
Great video, quick question about Web - I have not been keeping it prepared since we are playing Storm Kings Thunder fighting a lot of giants so difficult to get more than one opponent per cast plus they can easily make the strength check to escape assuming they fail the initial dexterity save. Seems like much less useful concentration spell than Hypnotic Pattern in this scenario, am I wrong? (Level 1 fighter, 6 war wizard with Warcaster feat so I rarely lose concentration)
So according to Sage Advice any spell that affect other creatures targets them so spells like Dragons breath, aid, or even aura spells dont work with find steed truly a worthless nerf
He's had a change of heart since then. While we were talking about spells for this vid in the Discord, someone sarcastically mentioned how good it was, and BB responded with, "I'm pretty sure no one here has ever said that! *checks to make sure he disposed of the evidence*"
Maybe not top 10, but id put in in top 20: Blindness/Deafness. Its not good because its a con save, and they can repeat it, but it is maybe the best non-concentration debuff spell (for wizards) until... Forcecage? Are there really no other non-concentration debuffs until then?
Bilbron. I need you to rank the racial feats. I’m thinking about taking bountiful luck at level 4; a head of getting my charisma to 20 (warlock), telekinetic and resilient con. Am I crazy?
so sad find steed is restricted to paladins, i really want to try it :D i'll def be picking that vortex for my lvl9 shadow sorcerer campaign once I lvl up. with extended magic I could yeet a foe from the frontliners up to 180f away from me (270ft away from friends if assuming i'm already 90ft away from them)
I find your lack of faith in magic mouth disturbing. Expensive as it may be early on it is arguably one of the most powerful spells in the game with creativity (only down side bieng the need for a cooperative dm)
ב"ה If as a wizard or a sorcerer my DM would ask me if I am willing to permanently remove web or misty step from my spell list (including not being able to learn them through feats like fey touched) in order to get find steed in my spell list instead, I wouldn't give up any of them in order to get find steed. Would you swich web permanently for find steed as a wizard if the DM would give you a choice? Also, as a college of lore bard I see web and misty step taken a lot more often than find steed*. Did you ever take find steed as a 6th level magical secret with college of lore bard? While Find steed is a good spell, and if I have it on my spell list there is no reason for my not to summon a steed, I don't think it is better than web or misty step. *Find greater steed with 10th level magical secrets is taken sometimes, but that is another spell from another level.
I would take that swap, there are other CC spells and Thunderstep/Dimension Door coming up as Teleport options. And we could really get a ton of effectiveness out of sharing Wizard spells with the steed.
@@Bilbrons-and-Dragons Totally agree. I think that at tier 1, having a reliable 60ft. speed+disengage/dash with no action economy and resource cost would provide better mobility and defense than MS. The no-resource thing is really clutch as using your then-highest level spell slot on a one-time mobility bump really hurts. Even when phantom steed comes along, FS would probably remain useful as a backup or to share with a party member
The reason you don't see them taking Find Steed at 6th, is because they know they'll have Find Greater Steed at 10th. You're not allowed to cast both at the same time, so those players would have to switch out one of their 6th level subclass spells for a regular Bard spell. And that's just wasteful.
I would really suggest that you stop advocating for the cheesy ways of using spells. Rest skimming or whatever you call it won't fly at any normal table, nor will rope trick in combat (you can call it RAW if you want but its meant to give you a safe rest and nothing more, I don't think it gets any less heroic than climbing up and down a rope every 6 seconds). Find steed is a class feature pretending to be a spell because paladins already have too much, and anyone who uses their horse for DPS is playing a different game to most people. It is also far easier to just buy a field of horses and hire some people to walk them after you than it is for most characters to learn find steed.
