Seriously tho Kuma heat electric being a special mid, being chargeable, and being the same +5 on block (more if charged) while leading to the same ridiculous damage output as Kazuya and Reina I’d say puts it on par with theirs even if he can only use it like 5 times in heat
I love this kind of content, I’m a new player and i feel like the short form/structured style of videos help me synthesize the game much quicker than others
I'm gonna make a case for my main. Leo's df2+3 is an absurdly good low. I genuinely believe the character would be bottom 1 without it. Basically, take everything you said about king's ffn2, and turn it up. It high crushes almost instantly, it's at worse -12 on block, leaves you at +5 on hit and in crouch for a mixup/extra pressure. On top of all of that, it's a counter hit launcher with a ws3 pick up which, with Leo's crazy wall carry and wall damage, makes it incredibly dangerous to pressure them with highs. You HAVE to make sure you mid check Leo constantly, otherwise they do df2+3, crush your jab and counter hit launch you, drag you to the wall, and do around 80-100 damage (depending on your distance from the wall). People say Leo is super annoying to fight, and I think df2+3 is a huge part of it.
I think I would replace Jun's place on this list with Hwoarang and his b+3. Also, saying that "nothing even comes close" to Jun's f+2 being the best whiff punisher in the game is kinda wild.
ok, I will comment here, just to add something about my boy Hwo: in heat he can counter hit launch with his db4f, u4, or 10-frame 2,4 into RFS f4,4 for >80 damage. however, b+3 is minus 19 on block, so it is hard to consider it one of the best moves, though it's an excellent whiff punisher.
@@ty_thegod i was giving conservative values (we don't want our boy to be nerfed, ok?) 😄. but yes, you are correct. staple combo gives 90 damage without walls and a heat dash, and after the heat dash (if you choose to use it) you can add ub3 for 7 additional damage or WR4 or CD.df3 for 5 additional damage.
Nice list, I would consider Lee Chaolan's b4 as well, safe mid move which isn't a lot minus on block, can transition into hitman stance and is a CH launcher. Also it is one of the best keepout tools in Tekken since Tekken 4 I think.
For the record, Claudio's b1 no longer launches airborne opponents. He lost that after leaving Tekken 7 (has never launched in Tekken 8). Db1+2 with Starburst is a hell of a move though.
Jin's f4 in T8 is not the same as in T7. First the neutral itself is very differnet in the game. f4 just tracked very well for such linear move. Now the lateral movement feels much stronger. I could spam f4 all day in T7 with realignment not so much in T8. Feels way too risky. I use f3 strings much more these days for heat engage and heat dash launch as it's 2 frames faster and the second hit can both track sometimes or catch people off guard. F4 i still very good but you can not build your whole neutral off of this move like in T7 despite even all the nerfs in the latter. I'd even argue f4 in T7 S4 as it is right now is still stronger than T8 version.
BEAS ELECTRIC is easily the best move in the game. It is a mid electric that almost cannot be stepped at all in either direction. It gives Kuma way more damage and oki potential when he lands it and combos compared to the Mishimas. It is considered crouching so it destroys highs. It is always i15 with the easy input and has slightly better reach than even Dragunovs df2. It recovers instantly and takes very little heat. And thats just the uncharged version.
All of haradas mains are incredibly privileged. Feng getting his crazy buffs in the end of tekken 7 and the safety of heihachi ff2 are a few examples i can think on the top of my mind. (Please keep hei ff2 safe thank you 🙏)
And it deals a shitload of damage too. But I don't believe it's as easy to confirm, and you have to be on RFS. It's very cheap of course, but it's not as easily accessible as Law's.
The only thing I'd like to add is that King's ff-n-2 has that neutral input, making it harder to spam and do spontaneously. The move is still crazy good, but, it does have that added element that doesn't make it as simple as spamming db3 or something. It requires some thought, at least.
@@Swinhoegaming he's at recent comps now (Sin and KaneNTrench won 2 tournaments), but they don't spam flash like you see electrics since they require setups and situational. A lot of people that complain about flash just need to dial down on the offense.
@@tiendang5341 yeah it’s true, but I must admit, it’s so satisfying catching button pressing happy people with frame traps, it makes me very happy, almost feel like I’m EyeMusician
@@alibahali3671 there's a player (blackheart) that achieved God of destruction on all the characters and made a tier list of difficulty to rank with and yoshi was placed hard where dragunov was ranked easy.
I feel like Lidia Heaven and Earth 1+2 makes it here. Any stance, one of the better heat engagers, and heat smash all lead to a somewhat skewed 50/50. Hit someone with it a few times and they'll just decide to duck or punch and lose to the armoured launcher. Not to mention you get to parry almost anything they'd be using to punish your strings and stances previously for even more uses.
His df2 has fairly short range, and his slide, though amazing, is kinda hard to consistently pull off in the heat of battle without plenty of practice.
The counterhit version of flash is in nss and is 8 frames. Yoshi can be easily launched punished for most of his moves. He’s definitely strong in this game but he has always had these tools even in tekken 7. I think he needs damage adjustment more than nerfs on his moves. I play lee and yoshi is never usually a problem for me after learning the matchup.
Here are my top 10 moves: Top 10: Flash Top 9: Kazuya’s f4 Top 8: Reina’s Testicle Grabber Top 7: Jin’s B3 into Zenshin Top 6: Electric Wind Bear Fist Top 5: Every Snake Edge Top 4: Kazuya’s FF2 Top 3: Kazuya’s CD1+2 Top 2: Reina’s Electric Top 1: DEATHFIST
Surprised you didn't place Hwoarang's backlash in the list, a powerful powercrush with incredibly fast whiff recovery, wallsplats, plus on block and a guaranteed follow up on hit.
To be fair to the Jin f+4, it has zero tracking and compared to Tekken 7, continuing into stance is actually unsafe. He's got no options here that can beat jabs or faster mids, and the powercrush high is easily ducked by just jabbing, confirm the powercrush absorb, and duck. The samsata is his best option to beat retaliation, but its launch punishable by everyone except Steve. You can argue to cancel the stance by soing a crouch dash cancel using up, and blockung, but even your fastest cancel is still jab punishable here. Thats why I cant really say its overtuned. If they bring us back the old T7 F+4, I will gladly let it go back to be only possible to combo if you commit to zen after, if they give us the old zen-cancel back
totally approve. 'samsata' - you mean 'samsara'? Jin has Black Wind Rondo (Zen. u+1)/ regarding the zen cancel: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-XF4Zi4IJDsQ.html super difficult, but possible, and you can also not go into stance every time)
@@VasiliyLim ah yup. Meant to say samsara. Typo. As for the cancel, huh, didnt realize perfect cancel made it safe, but the window is tight af IMO. Ive been trying to make it consistent, but its just not worth it in a real match for me. If there was a tech for it to make it consistent, itd be a diff story, but right now even my fastest cancel is jab punishable i plan on pad, so tapping up back is hard for me
@@timcruz2822 the window is tight af) i don't main Jin and tried only a little bit, and managed to cancel the stance to block 13-frame move once or twice) I play on keyboard btw, so diagonal inputs are hard for me too
Drag's qcf4 is steppable to the right. I agree it's very strong but it's not correct to say that it has no weaknesses. Same with King's ffn2. It's, again, very strong but is also extremely linear. By ssr blocking after it you basically option select King. Feng's db3 has much more tracking, from your example.
Sneak 4 is steppable to one side sure, but once you block one you can't really step at -7 so you have to guess. Do I block mid or low, or do I interrupt with a jab at -7, cause unless I do this guy will be able to spam this all day.
The pushback they gave him to snk4 makes those +7 useless , most of his moves cannot connect and if you try something like ws3 , the opp can easily backdash or ss and punish. At the wall is were the real deal is. I thinks some good nerfs could be snk4 not wallsplatting and less +frames maybe , +4 or +5
Yoshi OP Move is also his parry. I hit and kick him, I get launched I knee and elbow him, I get launched I try to through him, I get launched If he is a smart Yoshi player, he heals himself after launching me. Boss-Move in T8.
It only heals and launches in heat or if his sword is put away. Armor moves can still beat it, alot of the time throws can beat it, also it's easy for him to whiff it if you just wait a bit
Flash is not a parry, it's a normal hit with a hitbox that's blockable, sidesteppable in sword stance, and launch punishable on block and whiff. Just be more mindful about your strings, this isn't a game like guilty gear where everyone can do specific combos on block to keep a character blocking, a lot of tekken 8 is neutral and kind game based, even with its toned up aggression
@@berkaykilic5883 yeah one good low and you make it -14 , while jin gets away with d2 , ffn2 is no easily side stepped that the jon kept getting punished for using it , he has one good low so everyone predicts it , the whole point of muscle armor is to absorb damage and heat engage , his other armor moves does a hell lot of chip d3 , and that jumping kick , How many of us kings can land that df23 combo and are you justifying 80 damage with hella hard execution to be a lot , while kazuya and reina gets 100+ with electrics, Grow up dude stop asking for nerfs of your own character, his oki is gutted now in t8 , do him justice and leave him be
Just a quick one for the King apologists here- they DID technically nerf King's FFn2 in the last patch, the frames on hit went from +7 to +5, doesn't sound like much but it's enough frames to step a lot of his options on hit whereas before everything would clip you. Is it still crazy good? Yes!
Don't forget that hwo can also launch you from 10f ch from heat, and I think you should have list Leroy's Db3 as the best low in the game or at least the low cane
I'm so tired of people complaining about what makes Yoshi cool instead of just asking for him to do less damage again. The last thing he needs is to play more like everyone else
We still haven't talked about some situation where he can actually punish a move for being -6 to -9, in Tekken 8 there isn't really too much of these that he can punish because most of them require his back to be at the wall But still it's quite disgusting, go back in time and look at Negan vs Yoshi matchup Most of Negan main tools can be flash punish even tho they're -7 or -9
Bro i Don't know what you smoked but king's ffn2 is no way near top 10 moves in the game since its frame advantage has been nerfed Fore sure it's a good low but it has litteraly no tracking AT ALL You don't have an idea of how many kuma panda and jack 8 has been micro step into launch on my ffn2 There is lows that deserve way more to be on the top 10 like xiaoyu's and whoarang ss4 wich are full launcher on CH If one king's move should be on the list, it should be his db1+2 power crush wich is insanely strong used correctly
Dargunovs SNK 4 is highly linear so you can just do a small sidestep right and make him whiff, not glazing but if it helps someone... Movement is the biggest dragunov counter strategy.
youre taking like 1 in 6 or something odds that theyre gonna choose sneak 4 whenever u SSR. literally every other sneak option will track you, at least when he's already a decent bit + like after wr2 and fc df14 for example. It being SSR-able does not stop it from being broken when he has so many options to make you not wanna SSR sneak
please make a video top 10 heat enggagers in the game! and also top 10 power crush! hopefully will see nina's f1+2 there! it's a heat enggager and a power crush at the same time!!! wonder if there are other moves like that. you'll go a long way making this kind of unique videos. 😊😊😊
The only thing that flash shouldn't have is launching capabilities... I'm fine with it just having a follow up but to launch is what's really crazy about it cause to only be -15 isn't a great trade off being that the whole cast can't launch at -15 and u never really know when flash is coming cus yoshi is a character u have to respect even when ure on the plus frames that character legit defies tekken logic
Law is so broken the guy can mash and win even if you’re in high blue ranks he can obliterate you. I have to mention the new unblockables some characters have that are way faster than traditional unblockables and break your guard and guarantee a hit. That’s just ridiculous.
I think you picked the wrong move for jun. Demon slayer (f2, 1+2) is a great move but jun (and asuka) have 1 of the most busted moves in tekken history. D3+4 or can cans as its affectionately named is an i14 low, ch, unparryable launcher. Its only -6 on block and sure you can block the low and kill her but most people don't have the reflexes to do so.
I know you’ve got a Yoshimitsu video coming up, but I’d also like to know what the heck happened to Azucena. She went from being almost universally hated to being almost completely forgotten. I’m pretty sure the balance patches were part of it, but I still think it’s odd how an incredibly hated character is now basically nonexistent. I don’t think I’ve seen a single Azucena in ranked since the balance patches. Again, the balance patches are probably at fault, but I still see plenty of Steve despite him being pretty bad in this game. More than I see Azucena at least. I’ve tried looking into this myself, even trying the character out for a bit, but I still don’t have an answer for why Azucena discussion and usage dropped off a cliff - besides the balance patches, of course. That may just be it, but it’s still a video idea if you don’t have one
nah steves not bad anymore, my boy got sorted out somethin nice. the sonic fang issue is fixed, and the forced lionheart was fixed, JUST those two "buffs" put him back on the map. Azu also is still really good, but you cant win with just 3 moves anymore and a few of her best strings were over-nerfed, so everyone left my coffee queen. tier whores moved on to drag, yoshi, nina etc
F what anyone says... Yoshimitsu NEEDS to seriously be nerfed. Don't get me wrong, i like character but the fact that he has stuff like unblockable attacks and flash just makes him that much more of a unrespectable TEKKEN character for me, buff him as much as you want but don't give him stupid stuff like that without it atleast having considerable drawbacks..
In defence of my boy King... Yes, ff n 2 is very strong, BUT it's pretty much his only good low, and because of the startup (frames & ff input making you vulnerable to being CH), it kinda has to be done at mid range. Very good, yes, but better than Sneak 4?
We need MOKUJIN. Mokujin tournaments would be lit asf! Also... Where the hell is the tournament game mode? It was in tag 2 and 6 or 7. Suddenly, no more tournaments? Wtf!
I don't know every character, but moves I could say are barely busted are those (not ordered): Claudio's b1 Yoshimitsu's 1+4 Jin's d2 Jin's 2,1,4 King's df2,1 Dragunov's sneak 4 Yoshimitsu's guard break (forgot the input) Feng's b3 Alisa's entire moveset Nina's entire moveset. Honorable mentions to Jin, King and Nina's heat smash.
@@zachary3879 Yeah there's really no way to nerf it without ruining the move. Tbh I think flash is fine, they just need to weaken Yoshi in other areas
you mean 10f counterhit launcher in heat. JFSR is 18-frame at best, minus 8 on block, and very linear iirc. meanwhile, Claudio's hopkick is 15-frame, minus 13 on block, crushes highs and then lows. perhaps not the best move contender, but seems on par with the JFSR in terms of weaknesses and strengths.
I'll have to slightly disagree with you Boogard. I believe flash was indeed stronger in previous tekkens. There were more non-jailing strings you could flash, arguably more safe moves/transitions you could flash, and it was *always* a launcher. I see your point though, Yoshi's combos were doodoo before, but the main reason flash feels much stronger in T8, is that it perfectly counters the most effective way to play this game. (pressing on momentum and snowballing) So, I'd argue flash was stronger before, but it didn't fit too well in those games. You had to be very precise and knowledgeable about what and when to flash, as the risk of randomly doing it was too high. Now, the reward is objectively better, and *everyone* is getting randomly flashed left and right, from scrubs who religiously use the same 3 noobstomping Jim/Hwo/Aliser frametraps and expecting free Ws, to actual pros who seamlessly shift between immediate and delayed timings, just to get randomly flicked from a space cephaloid ninja.
Off topic question do you also play street fighter 6?? I see that your name is boogard and I assume your pfp is Terry so uhh what are your thoughts on Terry as a guest character for SF
