"Fighting for the integrity of a genre means fighting for uniformity, bias, and exclusion. Fighting for art... means joining the fight for diversity, equity, and inclusion." Now that's a thesis.
So, this has no correlation to the video I’m commenting under, and it’s over a year late, but I’m worried if I don’t say it now that I’ll forget to say it at all. I’ve been a fan of yours for years now, I believe since I was in middle school. Watching your videos helped to broaden my cultural scope and to develop my capacity for critical artistic analysis. Last year I completed my undergrad, graduating Magna Cum Laude with a major in English and a double-minor in Education and Theater. I think it’s safe to say that I would not have written my thesis comparing The Tempest and Forbidden Planet had I not watched your video on the same subjects all those years ago. Without getting too parasocial, and making all this weird, I wanted to thank you. Thank you for making an impact.
I took a "comic book" class in college and the very first thing our teacher did was be like "genre is a lie, if you define a comic by genre alone you miss out on so much cool stuff" and that ended up being a thesis for my experience in that class but also in life. The categories are a fucking lie, if you define art, and by extension peoples lives, by those categories... you're missing out on so much cool stuff.
Categories are useful because most films follow a trend, hence can be easily categorised, and those that don't neatly fit in those boxes can still be discussed using the pre-existing categories as a reference, while pointing out the original and transcendent elements.
I disagree. The categories are useful for organization, and it's our natural instinct to organize for informational purposes and as basis for comparison. The key is not to judge piece of work by the genre that others have already put it into rather than what you personally get out of it. Genre should be a descriptor rather than a rigid set of rules that everything must adhere to or be labeled aberrant.
When talking about "Reinventing Comic Books" and how the diversity of genre has dwindled, I can't help but pull from my own limited knowledge of comic book history and how The Comics Code Authority at the tail end of the Gold Age and Herald of the Silver Age played a non-insignificant role in shutting out other comic genres, since a lot of it's rules were pretty targeted against Horror and Romance.
CCA stunted American comics real bad. Compare french stuff and american stuff from the 70s - its like comparing stone age to modern age. It doesnt even seem like its the same planet at times
Yep! During WW2 a lot of early superhero comics were really popular, especially with the soldiers overseas. After the war ended, there was a lot of superhero fatigue so companies like Timely Comics (they would rename themselves as Atlas, and then Marvel) had their talent like Stan Lee doing western comics. Legendary comic book artist Jack Kirby actually made a living for himself drawing romance stories which were very popular with female readers, and for most of the late 40's romance books were the most popular comics on newsstands. And of course, who could forget Bill Gaines and EC Comics creating some of the best horror stories ever printed in four color and featuring some of the most gorgeous art ever drawn from talent like Wally Wood, Marie Severin, and Harvey Kurtzman? You're correct in your assessment that the Comics Code screwed a lot of things up, but as someone who aspires to create comics for a living I can say that things are slowly getting better.
Really happy to hear from Kyle's new cohost so often throughout this whole production. So many insightful takes like "choo choo" and "chugga chugga" that really left me thinking...
People really miss the forest for the tree with martin scorsesse. At the end of the day, adapting a comic book or a character from a comic book is not the problem. It can be done masterfully or just entertainingly, or very poorly. The *problem* is the industry which is slowly suffocating the medium and it's artists, including the very people trying to bring those very characters people love so much to life. Like the artists that are behind the cameras, the script, the vfx, they are just as much losing in this current media landscape as everyone else. There is genuine talent and passion in the film industry and it has been squandered by a few assholes at the top.
1:44:57 A.N.U. is a perfect acronym. अणु (aṇu) in Sanskrit means the smallest indivisible part of something big. Be it an atom to the matter (primary definition of अणु) or an individual part of the human "universe".
He's got a few of mine in their. Snowpiercer, A History of Violence, Ghost World, Persepolis. I mean, I would have thrown in Hellboy 2, but that would throw off his thesis, which is cool and right.
"My voice is more powerful than a locomotive!" Really really got me. Great line, fantastic timing and pretty much had to be spontaneous unless you checked the train schedule and timed it up. It got a big laugh from me
During the Ichi the Killer segment I had a commercial break. It is a big dichotomy from slicing a person on half to a very smiliy commercial for sunshine and rainbow themed school supplies for teachers. I just felt like sharing the crazy laughter I got with all of you. 😂
Absolutely astounding! I can't wait to check some of these out. And as someone who’s been watching since the Channel Awesome days, I am LIVING for the shade at former "colleagues."
Hearing "comic book movies" being repeated like twelve times in thirty seconds made me realise that maybe anglophones countries don't have the term "cinecomic"? Which is a shame because I find it super useful, less of a mouthful than "comic book movies" and more comprehensive than "superhero movies"
It mirrors the historical indifference shown to both comics and the subsequent adaptions of them we have. To imply comics could be as high art as cinema is generally scoffed at.
I didn't really want to see yet another RU-vidrs list of best comics ever, but once again Kyle you elevated it to something special. I learned a lot, thank you.
I'm just so happy to see "Popeye" get the love and recognition it deserves. I wore out the cassette my dad recorded it on during a cable preview of HBO. I still sing, "I will gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today," when making burgers.
I remember watching the first "Dick Tracy Special". Didn't expect it to be any good, but TCM was one of the few networks I still watched back then, and as a (moderate) fan of the movie, I was curious what they'd do with it. Maybe use it as a free promotion for some actual new movie? Hopefully starring someone else? In "A Christmas Story", Ralphie's disappointment was to learn something he was emotionally invested in was just a crummy commercial. I went in expecting a commercial, and I just felt so, so very sad for everyone involved that it was even worse. It was a vanity project, and not even one that had any effort put into it. Just an old, washed-up actor putting on an old costume and saying "I'm still good enough, I can still do what I used to do". Even though he was all alone. No one else wanted to show up. Maybe he didn't even want them to show up. Too much effort. As if the mere fact of his owning the brand is enough to keep Beatty going. Keeping that dream alive. Beatty isn't what made the Dick Tracy movie as good as it was (aside from the cache attached to his name). He felt bored and listless even back in 1990. Hard to believe he was ever so passionate about the project, given how wooden his performance was. But he let all these other talented actors and craftspeople shine. And he made a pretty good movie. I doubt that's been his takeaway, though. I don't know what he thinks he's ever going to do with the rights, but the longer he holds onto them, the slimmer and slimmer the odds this character/property he supposedly loves this much is ever again going to the see the light of day.
I really liked this video. It was interesting to watch and introduced me to some movies I likely would not have come across otherwise (I watched Nimona thanks to this video, and it was definitely worth it). More importantly however: watching this, it seems like you really enjoyed making it. That's always nice to see.
To add to how genius the movie in the #1 spot is, it takes a genre of music that was once known for it's politically revolutionary and anti-consumerism themes, _gentrifies it_ as a means to show how brands will take once authentic and powerful styles of art and then dismantle it to sell it back to us, absent of all of it's previous meaning as a way to push products, this gentrified version then _became the new wave of mega smash hit pop music immediately after this movie flopped._ (No shade to pop punk, I unironically love both the soundtrack from this movie and a lot of the music that would eventually emulate it.)
I like how Kyle can combine a two-hour rug pull with such rich cultural education. I hadn't even heard about this "Superman poster" kerfuffle until he brought up as an example of protectionist fandom cope. A glorious production. 🌟
Something that hit me - You're putting movies on this list that you 'don't like', that you cringe at and have negative things to say about it, but you still put it on the list because they really are the best. You put the whole background of the film, the culture it was set in, the people involved before and after, making the film a time capsule. They're so innovative, honest, filled with personality and essentially having it's own soul, that they really are the best. You recognize that and celebrate it. Dude, you really are seeing art on a whole other level. Mad respect.
I am so happy you showed love to Dick Tracy and Tank Girl. I love Marvel characters and the majority of the movies featuring them. I have been known to enjoy some DC-related material, mainly much of the Batman adaptations from the early 90s. But while I don't think there's anything wrong in making them and I want more as long as they're made earnestly, I do agree there should be so much more than just them. Great fun and thought-provoking examination as always.
"I love Marvel characters and the majority of the movies featuring them." If you are referring to the MCU movies then you are loving movie versions that have little to do with the original Marvel comic books. The MCU goes against its own comic book source which took itself far more seriously and was way more dramatic. The films put out over at the MCU turns almost all the characters into wannabe stand-up comedians constantly telling each other snarky jokes and taking almost nothing seriously. It's an insult not just to the original Marvel comic book source material but also to the entire superhero genre because it is saying (and many people keep repeating) that superhero comic books are the only source material that is not allowed to be adapted accurately outside of Batman.
@@HobGungan I would love for you to name them. And if you say that the tone in the MCU movies are accurate to the original Marvel comic books, that will be "all kinds of things wrong."
@@NomadFlow Seeing as how you just doubled down on one of them with no room for nuance, that tells me it would just be a waste of my time and energy. Unless my goal is to reach anyone else reading this instead of specifically you, but at this moment in time I don't actually care enough. If enough other people feel an explanation is warrented, I'll give one in good faith. But you just seem itching to just have a good 'ol Internet Argument I'm really not in the mood right now.
This gonna be a weird random comment that no one else will get. But on number 5 of this the discussion of comic as a genre and the narrow NARROW ideas people have of that made me remember one of the most frustrating eliminations ever in a tattoo competition show called Ink Master. The challenge was to draw a COMIC character and one artist and client sat down and together did a African American take on one of those classic noir detective style comic "heroes", now the tattoo itself was not my sort of thing but it was technically well drawn and the client loved it. The artist got eliminated for not making a comic character because it wasn't a superhero and the judges decided he was trying to doge the brief. It pissed me off so much I actually had to shop watching that season.
These videos always provide me with a wide net of film, television, and literary recommendations. Big part of the reason why I always come back to the channel.
Im so so happy you made a video about comic book movies without mentioning any dcu or mcu movies. AND YOU PUT PERSEPOLIS ON THIS LIST!!! A movie and comic that i helped me bond with grandpa with before he passed away 15 years ago. I love that comic and that movie so much. Thank you thank you thank you for talking about it and putting it on this list
47:20, if you haven't read Eisner's Fagin the Jew, then you should. In the Afterword, he mentions that he fought in WWII, saw all the horrendous caricatures of his own Jewish people being made by the Nazis there, then returned to America, started drawing the Spirit again, and immediately realised that he was doing the exact same thing to Black people, that the Nazis were doing to his, and spent the next couple of years trying to come up with better, less racist appearances for Sammy, and to make him a more three-dimensional character.
I like to tell myself that I follow artists and writers more than I follow specific heroes or "brands", but I can't deny some part of me loves the unabashed soap-opera theatrics of superhero titles. Even so, I loved your repeated trolling of superhero comic fans leading into your thesis. I hope this video makes it into the regular comics-hype-cycle feeds, so some of them can get suprised by this thoughtful video. I slightly resent the implied characterization of Takahashi Miike as the extreme gore/disturbing content director (BTW, Ichi The Killer is *not* his most disturbing; I'd give that honor to Visitor Q). That is certainly part of his long and storied career (over 100 films and counting since 1991), likely the part that attracted a younger, "edgelord"-ier version of me, but he has worked in many other genres of films. Since I haven't seen more than a small fraction of his filmography (I'm only human and many of them are hard to see stateside), I'll just be lazy and quote Wikipedia here: "Miike has directed films in a range of genres. He has created lighthearted children's films (Ninja Kids!!!, The Great Yokai War), period pieces (Sabu), a road movie (The Bird People in China), a teen drama (Andromedia), a farcical musical-comedy-horror (The Happiness of the Katakuris), video game adaptations (Like a Dragon, Ace Attorney) and character-driven crime dramas (Ley Lines and Agitator)." It has ages since I saw The Happiness of the Katakuris, but I remember loving it. If Barbarella and Danger: Diabolik are high-camp, HotK is ...I dunno...dark camp? Low camp? We'll workshop it later. But if you want to sit down and talk about it, I'm game.
Honestly, endlessly cool. I think the assessment of toxic parts of fandom into an obsession with power and the linking of that to genre was incredible. Also I need to double feature Dick Tracy and Popeye now.
" *EITHER LASAGNA CAT IS CINEMA OR NONE OF IT IS* " has the same energy as "THEN EITHER SONIC IS A GOD OR COULD KILL GOD AND I DO NOT *CARE* IF THERE IS A DIFFERENCE" and I love that for you, Kyle
I could watch Kyle Kallgren gush about media he likes for the rest of eternity. it being tangentially related to my favorite medium of storytelling is also a big plus edit: I have been bamboozled!
1:33 OK, we're starting out with a version of "Particle Man" arranged to sound like the orchestral theme to a B-tier MCU/DCEU film following an unsettling content warning and Kyle doing the most unhinged yet accurate imitation of a mediocre shoutyman nerd culture RU-vidr I've seen in a hot minute. I'm already excited.
Between this and your Christmas movies video, I'm really starting to love these videos that are simultaneously recommendations of films within a particular genre and explorations, analyses, and ultimately deconstructions of that same genre. I always walk away from these videos with my interest in film, in art, in humanity, fully renewed.
I stopped the video at 24:38, immediately rented the movie and saw it. Jacques Derrida High School really set the tone for the rest of the story lol! I enjoyed it a lot.
I don't know how to articulate my exact feelings, but I am in a place in my creative journey where I needed this video, not as a distraction while doing something else, or simply to tell me the big two have a terrible influence over the industry and the complicity of fans and critics. As a piece of art on its own this video made me feel emotions I wasn't expecting. I even teared up at certain points. Thank you Kyle.
I kept expecting a call back to Buckaroo Bonsai. 😛 This video is yet again further proof, as if any was needed, that I don't know s*** about comic book movies. These look like comic book movies I would actually want to watch!
You were really edging us in the last 20 or so minutes before the #1 reveal. Actually surprised you managed not to mention Birth of a Nation during that segment. I was so sure you would put Speed Racer in the #1 spot after all that build-up... Josie is great, and I feel like Riverdale will be seen in a similar context in about a decade, although this time relating to "comic book tv". Any reason as to why Speed Racer wasn't mentioned once when it so neatly fits into pretty much every topic brought up?
#20 I *just* watched this two days ago, I *love* this movie! #16. There is nobody on earth who should not watch this movie. And it's clear everyone making it had a *ball*. #9. This piece of vaudeville has been a favorite of mine since I first saw it on my grandma's tv. #2. This is why I watch your stuff. Because you have brilliant insights and interesting opinions.
I was right now years old when i learned that Persepolis had a movie. We read it in my Cultural Studies class my Senior year of high school and it's stuck with me ever since
im really glad i clicked on this video, im working on my own comic and it inspired me to go back to Understanding Comics again, one of my favorite books
Somehow I didn't see this until now. Very cool video, and I'm proud to have seen at least six of the entries on the list. (I keep editing this post because I keep remembering what's on the list and that I've actually seen quite a few)
46:50 I used to work as a newspaper cartoonist for a very small paper and I can confirm that this particular thing is something really hard to deal with. You want to be snappy and to the point. You don't want to paint any particular person as a representative of a whole sub-section of society. The only I way I managed to go around it is... essentially never using the same character twice. Shaking up representation on a case by case basis. Yes, there is no 'reason' why this character is of Asian descent in this comic's punchline - and that's by design. To complicate the cliché.
13:30 I was actually really surprised to hear that the scene where Morpheus goes to Hell is supposed to have a major cameo by Etrigan, the demon who speaks in rhyme.
I don’t want to get parasocial, like, at all. But that said…thank you Kyle! As someone who’s watched your work since the days of…that one website…thank you so much! I needed to hear Josie and the Pussycats is the best comic book film of all time from someone today! 😄🤘
Snowpiercer was my go to for along time for 1st movie nights with new friend groups. So much fondness for it I wish I could watch it for the first time again.
I clicked expecting nothing but this is a great video, I've seen a lot of these movies and yes I'm so for rehabilitating other style of comics. DC and Marvel try to rewrite history but comics as always been so much more. Thank you.
I was waiting until i finished watching to comment, but I can't wait to let the world know that i LOVE the occultist in the Pepe movie being a bearded weirdo in the Alan Moore tradition. Also, regarding Ichii The Killer... not only have I watched it, but I've watched Visitor Q as well, which is kind of Miike's attempt at Pasolini's Teorema, which... well... We *do* need to set aside some space for those who have watched Miike's ouvre
A fine showcase of Sequential Art Adaptations. And there are at least a few of these that I'll definitely consider, if I ever do decide to get a Brand new Series of my House of Love off the ground...
Damn dude, I thought I was putting on a dumb listicle to have some background noise while I work. Thank you for making something so interesting and thoughtful. Really incredible. Thank you.
Great video, but I do think it is worth pointing out that comics aren't really dominated by super heroes any more. Okay, I am not American, I don't know how it looks there, and where I live, Super Hero Comics never killed all other genres, but even in America, I know that neither Marvel nor DC are the biggest publisher anymore, and that especially webcomics, have been able to translate really well into physical books, probably exactly because the 'B' people found them first outside of comic stores. I know plenty of the movies you mention are based on recent-ish comics, but I do think it is also worth pointing out.
