The Touhou Gacha Paradox 

I think part of the problem is the reason I call Touhou "The most popular series nobody has heard of". While current Touhou media has so many songs, fan works, fan art, games, etc that put many mainstream series to shame, it never had an explosion in popularity that many series with this amount of content did. All of this is because the fandom is VERY fragmented. You got your music, games, doujins, fan art, manga, and even fumo cliques all sharing the same huge building with fans moving back and forth among the cliques, but you simply cant get everyone to congregate in the same room. Without a main source to rally on like FGO became for Nasuverse fans; the only way for a Touhou gacha game to gain strong "support" from the fandom is to basically move the canon material to that game. This however would also create an insane amount of fan backlash that could ruin the series all at once. Now we all know this will not happen because while Zun has given more leeway to his series as of late, he will always make sure that the grassroots movement that made Touhou as big as it is remains much stronger than the for-profit movement gacha games and studio sponsored anime follow.

I think the situation regarding gacha in general is kind of the culmination of a lot of stuff. Making games and mantaining servers costs money. As technology evolves and people expect more and more from games, they became more expensive to make. Then paid DLCs came. Then season passes and microtransactions. Then lootboxes (these and gacha would be illegal if it wasn't for a loophole. essentially you can't use real money for gambling, but since you're paying for ingame currency, it is technically allowed). Then the mobile market came, and whaling became the norm there, because no one wants to pay money for mobile games, but they have to get something from somewhere. All of this led to stuff like "free" rhythm games with $100+ total in song packs and gacha. There are more things, like selling the solution to a problem that was purposefully caused (like slow grinding, for example), or designing a game, not to be engaging or interesting, but to force you to play for as much time as possible, lowkey causing addiction in purpose (stuff like daily bonuses, daily missions, stamina that has to recharge, etc.) Also, regarding ZUN in particular, i think gachas and gachapon are normalized in Japan. Or at least that's the impresion i get. He has colaborated with these games (specially with dankagu), after all.

In hindsight, the reason why Gacha game emerged in Touhou scene may also have to do with ZUN's philosophy as a game developer. Y'know, unlike big AAA names like EA, Ubisoft, and Blizzard, ZUN considers himself "equal" to the players who enjoy the games. It seems he doesn't particularly believe that being treated as a "game developer" gives him the entitlement to stand above the players since he developed Touhou Project out of his memories of youth playing similar games in the past, rather than an ambition to utilize professional capabilities and develop a behemoth that dominates the market. That's why he's very lenient when it comes to fans using his IP to develop separate games, media, spin-offs, etc. ( *You hear me, Games Workshop?* ) This kind of leniency may have something to do with Gacha Touhou game's emergence TL;DR : ZUN doesn't like being bossy and just want to let fans do whatever they want to do with Touhou IP, and that may include making a Gacha game

Unfortunately, the paradox doesn't really make too much sense when you realize most of LWs fans barely know who ZUN even is.

I remain an optimist to think that Lost Word is not about to reach it's End of Service apocalypse, but this is instead a heavy push to get the global server debut roster up to date with the JP server in order to prevent users from saving up by predicting the banner schedule the JP servers followed in order to only roll to spark OP character banners. This is similar to what NA Fate Grand Order players do, but they don't have the luxury to actually spark their chosen characters. With that said, this was still too sudden and a bad look to focus on the profit margin so harshly without at least giving the players a heads up. Just having a stream telling players that the global server is planning to catch up with JP would've been a good enough of a heads up.

Tbh, I'm actually okay with the back to back updates in Lost Word!! Cuz tbh I only have crushes on certain characters, and since I'm personally not a fan of a lot of the event banner characters, if they keep doing back to back updates they may eventually add one of my crushes to the game

Well, even taking into consideration how evil gachas tend to be I think that these two gacha are welcomed imo. I remember when LostWord was JP exclusive. A lot of ppl was sad that they weren't able to play, others just found means to download it and play it (I know a guy who spent a lot of money on it) so LW coming to the west in a global release was pretty good imo. It has collabs from tons of well known artists, tons of arranges, new art, events, etc. Really good stuff overall. Up to this point most people know what a gacha is about. It's common place so a touhou gacha would do the same. That's how they work. I honestly think that the main reason things like this happen is that we the touhou community are both fragmented and we like cheap stuff (consider how most high quality content is/has been free). Overall I am happy to see games like LW making some noise on the west and the mountain of games getting into steam is great too. I agree that Touhou is the biggest fan-community nobody has heard of. I don't think that the ppl of LW or Kagura had evil intentions when they made their gachas. It's just how the world works. Everything needs money.

I'm not a big fan of LW and gachas at all but i don't understand the arguments against gachas here. First, the beginning statement about how spending a lot of money doesn't make you happier doesn't describe touhou gacha players but really small percent of them who actually spend a lot. Majority of touhou gacha players are f2p or low spenders and almost none of the arguments describes them here. Maybe if you meant spending any money on these games but then it's not "spending a lot can't buy you happines" but "spending at all can't buy you happines" but then it could be said not only about touhou gachas at this point but literally every touhou thing cause you have to buy the manga or original touhou games. The paradox here would be buying manga and then reading in this manga that money doesn't give happiness. But okay there's argument that gachas are against original games principles because they exist to make money. But you can say the same thing about anything that doesn't come out from ZUN himself or isn't fanmade. Figurines, Fumos, collaborations with other franchises and overall touhou merchendise are also bad because they are made to make money? You also have people that spend too much money on this which also is a minority and most people buy things because they like particular something or don't buy at all. This paradox isn't really characteristic to touhou games either. In bigger gachas like genshin you also have stories about how being greedy and putting too much value on money is bad. It is hypocritical but when talking about that it would be nice to not saying that it is problem of one particular franchise. Also I have no idea what poor game management and dramas that come out of it has anything to do with critique of gacha as a game genre. The same way you argument against LW using drama someone can counter saying about contetnt outside gacha like gameplay etc. both of these have nothing to do with the gacha system itself. I'm not saying that this drama doesn't deserve talking about but it isn't the subject here, is it? Again I believe it'll be good to repeat that i don't like gachas, I don't play any of them, I'm against this system but I didn't find any good arguments against gacha here. It's understandable that touhou channel would focus on touhou gachas but it doesn't work here. Not even talking about the fact that you potrayed touhou gachas as something you can't get happiness from which I'm pretty sure people can and do and also reminder to other people in comments calling them 14-year olds, it doesn't make them worse in any way.

What a shame, I really enjoy LW as a pocket 2hu visual novel to check once in a while. I’m not sure I agree that the gacha model is totally unsustainable with 2hu given the JP server looks alright, but it feels bad to see how compotently handled LW Global was on inception compared to now

while LW has nice art, I really dislike that it's become so popular that people think it's an official Touhou game. I worry that people who would like other Touhou works are disappointed when they conclude that it's a gacha franchise at a glance. I really wish ZUN could boost marketing for North America and partner with THCRAP to release English ports on consoles to rectify this issue. :(

I don't want LW to gone, I really hope after this drama they will return thing to, like nomal cubes in story and event. They can also combine those limited character to make a rerun and create cheaper god crystal pack so I can pay money every week to support the game.

Can we have a touhou mobile game that isn't gacha,i bet many people dont want to spend their money on games,but then you think the system of the game works with money.i wish there was a touhou non gacha game that had the arkanoid style like HRTP?that would be really good.:)

Definitely a bigger fan of kagura than LW. LW won't shut the fuck up with push notifs about the like 10 different boards they're pushing this month and there's not a ton of substance to it. Kagura opened me up to a couple new (to me) artists and their songs and since I can't read japanese, I just play the rhythm game, and boy for like a quick 10 minutes every so often, is it great. So close to FCing phantom ensemble to unlock lunatic.

Welp, I'm just Touhou doujin enjoyer. Don't mind me.

I actually play Touhou Lost Word, just for my favorite characters to be in my phone lol, and sometimes I actually notice that I'm not even enjoying the game if it's pure farming and farming, lol

Gacha is Joon Enterprises. She's the SuperduperKamiCEO

No rinnsouke playable? No playing.

The Touhou community is too used to people sharing their creative works for little to nothing. A dacha revenue model is not going to succeed if you only get digital assets. If there were physical collectables though... A better implementation might be a CCG-type of game, but that takes a lot more work than most games.

Never spend a dime on LW.The cubes cost waay to much

Gacha is the worst type of videogame there is, the worst part of the gacha is that you'll never finish them, there is no closure to a gacha game, there is no ultimate power you obtain, there is no final boss to defeat, you'll never spend enough money to say "that's it", you can't master a gacha game but you can always spend 1 buck for the newest "nothing"

everything decided to blow up today huh Ah, I suppose that this should be less unexpected. I kind of hoped that it wouldn't go down like this but alas. I do think that Danmaku Kagura has potential (if I could I would let it swap places with LW), though this probably won't age well. I think that this will probably be the nail in the coffin for Touhou gachas. One failure could be a fluke, two failures, on the other hand...not so much.

Remember, Jo'on is only one half of the moral. Shion has been described as an unsung hero by ZUN because businesses hoarding ridiculous amounts of money can cause their own downfall through dramatic financial ruin (being so successful that the shareholders keep asking more and more until it becomes unsustainable) making her powers a necessary evil. Depending on one's point of view, this either helps justify the gacha games because the full moral is something along the lines of "money can't buy happiness, but hoarding wealth doesn't bring it either" or reinforce the idea that it breaks the moral because the LW rates are so low bad that veteran players just tell you to hoard SC and coins until you're in the sparking range for good measure.

This is my though: The real problem with gacha games is that most of the time they use high quality drawings to attrack people to play their game. Some say its more like a "waifu Casino," and some say its "totally fine." I don't mind games exist on phone, but I dislike when the developers focus WAYYYYY too much effort on design rather then game play. Take example the official Touhou games, Its all made by ZUN himself so he can do whatever he wanted. Even though the character art isn't that good (expicially Sakyua EoSD), but the gameplay is really really fun. But when you play like a gacha game, you are basically playing it for the character rather then having fun. A serious problem with gacha games is when the player got left out for one day or longer, they are extremely left behind. Well It gives me the feeling of hopelessness, and for many they don't have money for games. Some people will say "oh I don't pay money and still not accictive to it. I'm totally fine with it" is actually in big problems. Playing these games is more like mine control, and using cute girls as a way to milk weeb's money. Some people dedicated their entire life with these games, and spent MILLIONS over some cute girls pictures. In my words its basically a attachment, it stays with you and tries to control you as much as they can. Yes making games cost money, but what matters the most is fun. The reason I prefer canon touhou works is I can understand the effort ZUN put into his works, and believe it or not he is the most humble video game dev out there!! He basically support any opportunity he can to support his fans, and give licence to great projects like Touhou Lost word and many. Some days ago, ZUN even give licence to CAVE the licence to make their own official Touhou games. So this is why I prefer the original rather then fan made sometimes. Its basically Art, and the art of independence and free expression. Many will say, Its hard to balance in both Quality and Quantity, so I would just simply say thats true. For example, I can make my own music and can draw, but doesn't know how to code and make sprites for a game. So I have to ask others for help, and sometimes finding help becomes a mess in times. So just because a game has good art, doesn't really mean its good gameplay. Its a toxic buissness strategy to make Gacha games, this is why some fans starts to realize the problem with these mobile touhou Gacha games. I feel like the industry of Gacha games needs to be stopped, because its using attractive waifus as ways to milk money from weebs. So In the end, we should start thinking of how we should stop this toxic buissness trand from happening. (for people who finised reading this, please do not send hate to anyone who makes gacha games. They are just people, and is the company behind it is the problem)

I haven't played lost world in a while so I'll refrain from talking about that. I have been playing some Danmaku Kagura though, I find that grinding event points isn't actually that bad considering unlike other mobile rhythm games, you're allowed to set it to auto if you don't have the time to grind it yourself. Doing it in this fashion also doesn't cause a point gain impairment, it just doesn't count towards score ranking and some quests. Personally, I have lost a bit of interest in the game though because most of their mainstream songs that most people know about might already be in-game and I find myself lost in the recent new songs that they have been releasing.

I haven’t played kagura, but it seems like a pretty average idol rhythm game. It’s gameplay looks very similar to another idol rhythm game, Bang dream, but just without the flicks, which honestly might be better lol. (I haven’t played Bang dream either but I know people don’t like flicks). However normally, Idol rhythm games recycle the same like 20 characters 50 times over, and with Touhou having over 6 times the characters, it might work, if people are actually willing to spend money. As for LW, I haven’t played that game in like 2 months lol, but they are going at a breakneck pace.

i don't like the gameplay that much

So I guess Lost Word is gonna end soon yeah?

Why not making a mobile port for the Touhou main games? I wouldnt mind paying for playing the game in mobile instead of downloading a gacha version and being lure to spend money later.

Why spend money if you can just wait And that’s how i save my money

bro in my first ONE pull I got mamizou. Im f2p too. Starting to feel bad for you guys

I’m a LWF2P I don’t bother with banners too much

I don't even just feel it's the gacha aspect; a lot of LW feels like a bastardization of Touhou. Just for an example the pretty heavy over sexualization.

Damn it. Not when I still have yet to get the Meiling wedding costume that's not yet in global servers.

I bet the guy who made this is a cutie

0:52 I think it's more than that It may be a lesson that an expensive apology is not necessarily better than a normal apology

The paradox is actually even more hilarious because the game is still going 😂 and that's precisely why this works xD

I disagree, but it's your opinion so it's ok

5:22 voice crack

next step is make a NFT touhou game

I don't want LW to go I find it really relaxing and fun

the reason why i despise lost world so much is because this series is so beautiful because of both the original content and the fan content. ZUN was the big bang for all of the fan content that we al enjoy on the internet: being music, fan arts and games, all inspired by this series of games made by one man. The fan made music epsecially is the type of content with the most quality and effort. All of this was made with passion for the series, every piece of content is a gift for and from the fans. I'm not against creating a piece of fan content and making money out of it, you deserve to be rewarded for your hard work, lost word however is a different story. Lost word is the representation of how soulless the gacha business is. a template of a game, repeated over and over, same concepts, same automatic battles, same "roll the slot machine" sistem, the only difference are the girls that you are able to obtain. A complete waste of money and time, a lot of gacha players are even aware of how bad it is this is not the type of content where the money made are to reward the devs hard work, this is using something already existing, and exploiting it to make money. It's like taking all of the water from a river and selling it to it's people who always drank it for free.

I'm a F2P player B)

I actually have touhou project LostWord and I can say from personal experience the only in game purchases that I ever have had to spend real money on is god Crystals. Oh and please don’t kill touhou project LostWord global please I love this game as well as the fact that I at least want the story mode of touhou project LostWord global to finish the story mode!😅🤔🧐🤨😓😭😢🥺

I ayed LostWord like two weeks ago but it didn't even stay for one week of play for me bc I couldn't get thru a part of the beginning story so I ended up giving up I only started with the fighting game and played the shmups, I didn't start there honestly.