The Toyota GR 86 is the second best value in the sports car world! 

Or, like Colin Chapman of Lotus fame put it: “Adding power makes you faster on the straights. Subtracting weight makes you faster everywhere.” A concept which seems to be forgotton by most. Happy new year everyone!

Here in the UK the gr86 sold out in 90 minutes, I was lucky enough to get a gr yaris, this is the only car I would trade mine for. Toyota came out of nowhere with these awesome old school cars. Well done Toyota.

When I was looking for my first car, 2800 lbs was about the average weight for 1989 Celica, 240SX, Prelude, Starion, etc. The 300ZX, and Supra were all over 3000 lbs and considered "heavy".

I'm with you on the sunroof thing. I had an 89 240sx back in the day and it was nice to just remove the entire window piece and store it in the back on a nice sunny day.

I really love mine. I got the Premium MT. I did however have to disable that fake engine noise, the annoying seatbelt chime, switched the halogen bulbs to all LED's. I also got the auto-dimming mirror, GR Shift knob and all weather mats. A front and back 4k dash cam is a must for recording these kind of drives. I actually like the black interior in premium, especially the seats. My roommate got winter tires for his. I'm going to swap out the intake filter for a K&N then remove that charcoal filter (there are dyno videos that show that adds ~10hp). Aside from that, its the perfect car for me. Well... if it had wireless android auto.

Love the sound of the engine, powertrain, sharp handling, exterior styling, value...this is an incredible sports car.

I am nearing year 3 with a base BRZ when I worked from home. The commute was 50 miles to autocrosses. Now I commute in and out of Seattle, and your points are all true. It is more usable than I anticipated, and is a nice decompression space that makes me look forward to the drive. I took it on a couple of road trips, including 1,700 miles when I moved across country. I loved every minute of each journey. The biggest downside is the passenger seat not being height adjustable for shorter passengers. Gas mileage has ranged from low 20s to a high of 34 mpg, which to me is reasonable. The car is a riot for anything short of family hauler.

In Europe this car start with 37.000€ but you need to wait 6 months or where available .now costs around 40.000€

Great review as always. Yes, do more away-from-sponsor events since they replicate more real-world drives.

I think the GR86 is better as an overall car than the miata purely because it really can be used as a daily. A modern miata really has no storage space so you can't just throw stuff in it and drive off.

It’s easy to let some of these cars in a busy lunch year fall off the radar and I’m glad you went back to revisit it with a manual and gave it an accurate perspective of where it stands as far as value and execution. That transmission alone, warranted another episode. Not sure if the shoot road alone would but hey, anytime you want to shoot the LC500 on the Shoot Road I’m all in. 😏

On one hand we think 2800lbs is light, while simultaneously on the other hand, we'll call my 69 Oldsmobile which is just over 3000lbs, a boat. Granted the suspension and lower ride height will make the Toyota feel much lighter, but it goes to show the older cars really were not all that heavy.

Great episode!!! You hit all the points while not doing a full on re-review.

Living the life my friend. Great review as always.

Mr. MotoMan :)... I enjoy your reviews. Here I will have to disagree on the interior color change, black is the best color and no sun roof. Keeping the choice to one color in the interior and no sunroof keeps the cost down, this is a great car for those who want to experience an honest sports car on a shoe string budget. Not a fan of the blue color, black, silver or gunmetal would be best, better looking and timeless. I'm glad this car exists.

Miata is fine for people that are shorter and don't need a daily driver. Otherwise the BRZ/GR86 is better.

Great review. Really enjoyed this format as well. As an ND2 owner with a black interior that almost got the 30th anniversary ND1 mostly because of the interior uniqueness vs the ND2, I think I would prefer the GR/BRZ with a lighter/brighter interior option over any type of sunroof/moonroof if I had to choose. Both, would obviously be nice, however.

This car is LIGHTER than my 2001 (that’s 22 years old) BMW Z3 3.0. That is extraordinary. And it has a back seat and I’m sure the drivetrain doesn’t whine like a damn GT3 car at partial throttle lol

I had a 2014 BRZ as a daily driver that I planned on keeping forever and sold after just one year. It was just too loud and rough for daily use on my commute. My GTI is a better balance between fun and livability.

My son bought one a week ago and I have to say it’s better than I expected, 6 speed manual premium, never drove the 1st gen or a miata but the gr is a great little sports car.

Just signed on. Great post! I saw a vid comparing the Toyota with the Subaru, where the Subaru has a softer ride. Being older, and with a bad back, I hope to buy the Subaru soon. I always sacrifice comfort for nice lines. Having owned E-types, Alfa Spyder & GTV and Lotus Elite, my sense of aesthetics will never change.

Excellent work, M. Loved the episode and I like the format.

The problem with that car is the engine. People are thrilled over the boxer engine but even the new 2022 , 2023 are starting to have crank and rod bearing failure. They put that whole engine together with RTV which IMO could create a longevity issue along side with the bearing failures. All that for 30k plus, no thanks.

Yet another great review.

Great car for the money. Sat in one I’m 6”2’ have a long torso and it just wouldn’t work as a daily. I’m a hot hatch person, drive the Veloster N and just need more space.

that car is screaming for T tops... I'm 53, when I was 21 I got the 91 MR2 turbo, fully loaded with all the options, my first new car. i loved that car... I sometimes pine for it today (although I do have a cool 'fun' car, a 69 Camaro) the MR2 had T tops, and I miss that option on cars! why don't they make them anymore?!

Wouldn't it be cool if Porsche made an entry level front engine 944 successor to compete with this?

Thumbs up!....I just hope that they keep the part production for the years to come.....not like what's done for their old school legends from the 60's, 70' and 80's.....

I couldn’t live with that sound

Great review. Disagree on the roof changes. Definitely hate any convertible and never use a sunroof. Glass roofs just fry me and heat the interior. I drive a 6 speed 4 door civic daily. Still 2800 pounds with a magnificent shifter. Excellent fun city car

2:58 LOL Thats what i do on my Ducati. Around town I'm usually in 2nd from a stop. Its so much easier to flow through speed. If I'm running or chasing ill use 1st of course, that said there are many tight technical turns you find on a track you take 2nd over 1st still. It depends on the gearing too but yea.

IMO, a third reason to choose the Miata, is the engine sound is so much nicer. I really don't like the engine sound of this flat 4. I'd be more inclined toward the GR86 if it: Had a hatchback instead of a Trunk, some kind of sunroof (I prefer sealed glass, just to let light in and never leak), and the engine sounded better.

Appreciate the comments comparing the manual transmission to an ND2 Miata's. I've driven the latter (on multiple occasions), and think that transmission is sublime, and in the same-tier as Honda's very best. How would you compare the GR86's manual to the Elantra N's?

sup with them downshifts bro

=) always love your reviews, happy to see your channel grow MotoMan, i would like to see the planes again sometime.

thanks for the vid - got an '18 WRX right now, seriously looking at the 86/BRZ to replace...

1st Gen MR2 in Japan weighed about 2100 lbs.

very nice designed car with good price for every day drive good video.

Great review MM. Love the format. Definitely more of these types of reviews please! That said, I’m glad I own an ND2 Miata RF over this car. I’d love to get your take on whether you’d daily this or a base Cayman with the caveat that you could afford to buy either vehicle? I only ask because there are several reviews where they tried to compare the two and they said the GR 86 compared favorably to a base Cayman in driving dynamics and handling at least.

I would strongly consider this car if it had a large hatch. That would make the car very practical

Couple reasons it doesn't have a sunroof nor ever will. First and foremost: cost. Adding a sunroof adds cost to the manufacturer. This car is built to a price point, so eliminating a sunroof reduces cost. Next: weight/performance. Sunroof assemblies are HEAVY. Additionally you need to reinforce the roof structure to hold a sunroof, and so you're adding weight to the car. Weight in a place where you don't want it, the roof. This raises the car's CG which detracts from performance.

Love the format. Probably go with the mx5 because it is a convertible, but it would be close

Loved the review.

Like the review. I would love to see your thoughts on the Honda Civic SI as it is around the same price range and even though it's front wheel drive I believe they fill a similar niche.

A MX-5 Sport with 6 speed manual now would have the same price.

Its nice to know that you dont need to use 1st gear as much as i own a 18 brz. Neptune blue 86 ive had an allocation for since may last year will come one day (canadian orders are very behind rn and apparently even more people are now jumping on them)

Great review. Miata needs to be a bit bigger to make it more livable. The BRZ is usable 24/7. A slightly wider and longer restyled Miata would be even sweeter; with Mazda going RWD now it’s not a big ask.

I've driven a BRZ and own a 2018 MX-5 Club. For pure driving enjoyment, shifter feel, and torque curve, the lighter MX-5 is my choice. The multi link rear suspension also makes a big difference. It does feel a bit cramped by comparison though, and I do prefer the seating position and petal box in the BRZ.

Love this format. A sunroof would be huge, but for me, it HAS to open, and still allow a 6’ 2” driver adequate headroom. I want a pseudo convertible feel and air, not just a bit of light. And yes, small coupe’s should have at least some lighter interior trim. Otherwise, they’re somewhere between a cave and a cage…

Have to go with the Miata simply because it does not have a Subaru power plant.

No drifting? Unfortunate. Still want to buy one though

By all accounts they really fine tuned and fixed all the deficiencies with the 1 gen. Nice to see the price is still reasonable. Lots to like about this car, but I am still not sold on the styling. It looks fatter and more bloated, especially in photos, than the old car. I wish they had kept the sharper, tighter styling of the old car with a little LC500 influence.

The problem is its almost impossible to buy one.

I always thought California sunshine until it floods so it's weird to see a a plain old rainy day. Where in California is this?

the people that complain about this cars hp are glue eaters

The lack on interior space for phones etc is the deal breaker

Great review as usual. Having said that - my gripes: 1. Miata absolutely not a better value cause you can’t daily it and it’s also more expensive. 2. Thought the Miata and this had a too close to call quality comparison in the transmission so I do NOT agree that there’s a clear advantage to the Miata. 3. Hard no to the sunroof. Takes a bunch of people out of tracking it (the sunroof potentially meaning the difference between fitting with a helmet on or not….plus it’s antithetical to the cheap rwd sport car objective of this car. You want to add comfort….better padding where your elbows and knees/shins rest and better quality leather on the wheel/shift/e-brake surfaces

gr86 imo is a true successor to the ae86, although cost adjusted i feel like the old ae86 would be like $20k today 😂😂

How is the reliability on the new Gen boxer motors?

Yeah a t top option would be pretty cool

The biggest disappointment of the GR86 is the noise in the cabin tires.. Just unbearable doing 90-110 km your ears are ringing after a long trip.

Lol these cars handle fine, but on track you’re gonna be getting passed by 90% of the cars, unless you’re in the lowest run group where you won’t get point bys from GT3s and zo6s. Honestly these things shine on the roads. If you want a good track car buy a 2nd hand cayman S. Good driver in one of those can run with anything besides a race car on slicks

When they put the 3cyl turbo in it and rev matching

I genuinely hate toyota for releasing GR86. It is a dream come true of a lot of car enthusiasts and it's literally impossible to buy in Europe. This is the worst level of mockery possible :(

Really nice in blue 👌

Try to find one!

I pick this over the Miata because I think it's a little prettier, but maybe I'd get it redone in Mazda's red. But most importantly I choose 86 bc I fit in it

It took Toyota/Subaru how long to match the MIata? I don't trust that boxer engine either. Already having issues with them.

But the Miata is tiny, the GR 86 is not as small and just about perfect in size.

I appreciate the review but these ARE NOT going for $27,700, in my area the base models are selling for $32,000-37,000. That is $5,000-10,000 more than I paid for my very clean C6 vette with 10k miles and a 6MT. Hardly a deal IMO which is sad because I love the 86 and BRZ...

I'd get one if I didn't already have a S2000 (which is also the same weight). If I ever get a second car I need something with room to haul stuff.

Has anyone owned or driven a manual Veloster N and and the GR 86? I’m a VN owner and in no hurry to trade cars, unless there’s a compelling fun factor reason to do so. Thanks.

Slap a targa top on this car. I would buy it. Toyota needs to bring back a true Supra.

Any word if subaru took care of the excessive use of silicon in the oil pan in their FA engines? Pieces of silicon fall off and clog the oil pickup line, choking the engine and damaging it. I would stay away from them until this gets resolved.

He has concrete 🥜's , driving full speed, down a curvy cliff, in the pouring rain 😎😎

What do you mean when you say "driving it at 4 tenths" or 7 tenths etc? Do you mean 40% throttle?

Wish I could find one that isn't 10k over msrp or test driven 5k miles for full price.

Give the Miata enough space to fit up to a 7 footer and you could double the market of potential buyers

Does it have trunk space? This is why I still have my 88 mazda mx6 gt turbo manual in ticket red. I'm looking for a retirement car to putt putt in.

Trunk should have been a hatch like the celica before it, sunroofs are nice too but it does add weight which the 1% will scream about to make it sound like they're the majority. MX5 is the better fun car but it does have significantly less space but then you're also 500lbs less and have a better transmission and motor imo.

Nice format. Please try it to appeal to a wider audience and boost viewership. Although I also look forward to your other tried-and-true, full-scale reviews.

You mentioned the Miata. I think the Honda S2000 is better. I used to be able to shift my S2000 with the lightest touch like 1 finger.

Beautiful looking car, but I prefer the power of my Manual 2018 Mustang GT that will make the GR86 look like a slug in comparison. I spent the bulk of my life driving cars like the GR86. No more. That ended in 2015 when I got my first Mustang. I like the feeling of high horsepower bursts of speed that I get in Mustangs, Camaros, and Challengers. It's a feeling I'll never get in the Suboyota Twins or the Miata. Besides, I don't live near twisting roads, but often need bursts of speed for a number of reasons.

This engine (or I guess this engine with this output, which I consider pretty close to e90 3 series optimal) and the auto transmission optionally attached to it should be in the Crosstrek. Well, also the toyobaru twins and the Crosstrek should have a turbo. I would buy a sedan version of the brz/86 platform or a Crosstrek with more power and a torque converter auto.

👍 I like this new formula very much, but i dont like this weather.

The sunroof will probably add body flex

I would disagree, I think the Elantra N is WAY better deal for your money...has way more power, beat them on a track, more cargo..I'll give the gr86 that it looks better though

In Germany whe need to pay around 36k Euro 28k doller is an bargin in comparison

It sounds different because of the pumped in sound.

Good review. I wish though that car reviewers would mention the real world price. being that they are 4k over msrp.

I couldn't daily a Miata, BRZ is my only car, need the cargo space.

Applies only if you can get it for MSRP.

I'd only agree to a sunroof (or moonroof) if there was a way that having it would REDUCE the cog. Otherwise, handling trumps aesthetics

What is first value??

I hate sunroofs on any car.

Nice episode, @MotoManTV ! Long-time fan of your content. Had a quick question: If you had $28,000-$30,000 to spend on a weekend sports car that would see some occasional track duty, would you buy a new GR 86/BRZ, a used BMW E46 M3, or a used Porsche 987.2 Cayman S? I ask because I've (fortunately) come to a point in my life where I can afford to buy a toy like that in cash (per your and Dave Ramsey's advice 😉) without it affecting my financial freedom and goals. My current toy is a manual 2002 NB Miata LS that I purchased 3 years ago (in cash, of course). The Miata was my first weekend toy/sports car purchase and I absolutely love it. I've learned how to become a better driver and learned how to perform my own maintenance and install modifications myself due to its simplicity. However, I'm ready to "graduate" to something with more power and also with a hardtop. I was also considering a BMW E86 Z4 3.0si coupe or a Lotus Elise, but I felt they each had their own significant drawbacks (eg E86 manual coupe nearly impossible to find and concern over Elise clamshell repairs) Anyway, any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks

waiting on prices to fall so I dont have to pay over msrp...

GTI or GR86???

I owned a 2017 Scion 860 (same car pretty much), manual transmission. Very enjoyable. But seats not that comfortable, very low to the ground so annoying to enter and exit. Now, bought a 2006 Mini Cooper S convertible (supercharged) 6 speed manual. II actually like this Mini much more, and seats are more comfortable! I haven’t enjoyed driving this much since my 1976 Porsche 914 2.0. Getting about 31 mpg overall with the Mini. 860 was about the same mpg. Love the supercharger “whine.” Only paid $6500 for the Mini in mid 2022 California.

If only for us less-than-100%-purists, I wish they'd offer a sunroof. A big, honkin' sunroof. Yes, less rigid, though that can be really minimized. The joy of some semblance of open-air driving. The weight is right. The look is right. The practicality is right. Just. Need. Sun. And ... ICE forever!