The Triumph 2500PI Was The Lotus Carlton Of Its Day! But Had A Serious Flaw.. 

The car you have there is only rare because the Company was just about to switch to the Mk2 body shell. And the next 6 years of 2.5s were all PIs. It was only for the last 2 years they reverted to carbs before production ended in ‘77. I personally prefer the styling and the dash layout of the Mk2s, and they were sufficiently reliable to be a popular choice as police traffic cars. Oh and Merry Christmas 😊

As reckless 17-year old, working at a back street garage in the early 70's, my boss had a Mk 2 2.5 PI estate. I'm sure he wouldn't have been thrilled at my shenanigans when I was sent to collect parts. I remember having a few sphincter-clenching moments. I always loved the beautiful, airy cabin, and low waistline, and it had such a lot of space. The visibility in these Triumphs was amazing, and was similar to the Dolomite I had a few years later

I had several of these both mk1 and 2 with overdrive and automatic, the last one was 37 years ago and l fitted the modified TR6 engine putting out 180bhp with upgraded suspension and brakes. It was a car that should have been a factory option, they would have sold loads and it was not expensive to do with the parts available at the time. I used it to rush my wife to hospital to have a first daughter. Moved it on for a genuine RS3100. The car is still going and l see it at shows in the West Country.

Liked both Mk1 and Mk2 Triumph of the 2000/2500 range . Leyland bought Triumph in 1962 , whilst it competes with the Rover 2000 P6 range Leyland didn’t buy Rover until 1967, but kept both models on competing against one another till 1977 because both cars had a strong popularity in their customer base. The Triumph 2500 PI IN mk2 guise I think came 3rd in the London - Mexico Rally , it was won by the much lighter and more agile Ford Escort driven by Hannu Mikkola, but credit should be given to the Triumph as it was a more heavier executive car . Whilst the P6 won many accolades for its unique design , comfort and safety , the Truimph won the Gold award for construction, and had the six cylinder refinement over the Rovers four pot. ( the P5 as illustrated in your video had a six cylinder followed by the Buick V8. ) The Triumph also had more interior space both in seating and boot space over the P6 due to the P6 base unit design. stunning example of this rare Mk1 PI in your video, a true credit to the owner. And what a lovely soundtrack to the engine/exhaust note.

1000 years ago when I was an apprentice mechanic I remember going out in a breakdown truck with a mechanic to retrieve a 2500 PI. It belonged to a Doctor who had parked it on his driveway one winters day only to find that in the morning, the engine bay was full of snow. We retrieved the car a took it back to the workshop to sort it out. The strangest thing that I saw, which has always stayed in my memory, is that when I was removing all the ignition bits, plugs, coil ht leads, cap etc, I cam to remove the rotor and noticed that it was round. Not only that, but it contained centerfugal balance weights inside it. Never saw this before or after. When we got it running and took it out for a test drive, it felt like being in a rally car. Amazing vehicle

My Dad was respraying one of these back in the day. It was stripped out for paint and he took me out for a spin in it on back roads in Northern Ireland. About 1976. I can't have been more than 4 years old. It had no exhaust, and not a single piece of glass in it. It was wild. That ride is still a rather vivid memory.

When looking at this elegant saloon and Triumphs broad range of attractive other saloons coupés and roadsters in the 1960s and early 70s, it's noticeable how well Triumph was on its way to become the British counterpart to BMW and Alfa Romeo. For that reason, when mentioning a car brand you would most likely see return from the past, I would always choose Triumph. It's the Leyland brand with the highest sense of missed opportunity.

The Triumphs of this generation had wonderful exhaust notes. The Stage 3.0 and TR6 exhaust notes are just wonderful on the ears.

Back in the early-to-mid 70s, my workplace car park was full of these! And the reason was very simple. Triumph really didn't seem to know how to set up the injection system, and many of them left the factory running more like tractors than sophisticated saloons! Enter Graham, a work colleague and keen amateur rally driver. He quickly developed a technique for correctly setting up the injection system, using nothing more than a colourtune kit! This was a time when most dealer mechanics had never come across a fuel injection system, and had no idea how to tune them properly. So, many of my colleagues would go to the car auctions, pick up an almost new 2.5 PI for a fraction of its showroom price, and await a week-end when Graham was on shift! Come the lunch break, Graham would wander out to the car park, colortune in hand, spend 15 - 30 minutes working his magic, the the new owner would leave with his car purring like a kitten - rather than sounding like a Fordson tractor! He must have sorted a dozen or more of these, all bought cheap at auction, and all now performing perfectly amongst my work colleagues! As an aside, Graham had a 2.5 PI Estate, which he used as his support car on rallies. When the Range Rover first appeared, Rover turned up with one at a rally, and proceeded to get it stuck in the mud! Graham towed it out with his 2.5 PI estate.....!

I owned three of the Mk II versions in the '80's, the last of which was an estate. One of the unique features of the car was that the fuel injection was direct, which meant the pump had to work at very high pressure, generating heat that caused a vapour lock if the car stood for a short time. None of my PIs did this and the estate, especially, was a delight. My wife and I used to settle the children down in the back for overnight trips between Fort William and the West Country. My estate felt as quick as a Datsun 240 Z that a friend tried to sell me. We also owned several Rover P6's and the real rival to the 2500 PI was the P6 V8. I always felt that the P6 would have benefitted from the PI's overdrive. The PI on the other hand, I don't believe had leather trim out of the factory. I now run a Jaguar 3.0 S with a stage 1 remap, but still think fondly of my PIs & P6s.

Whilst in UK in the 90s I had an identical saloon to the one you tested re colour wheels/trim etc... but non Pi, it was still a lovely car in manual overdrive form. One slight correction to your otherwise excellent (as usual) review is you mention the Rover P5 as the Triumphs nearest competitor (with a pic of a Rover P5B (V8) coupe). Not so, the Rover you wish to mention with the '4-cylinder' is the P6. It was interesting how these two cars developed overtime with the Buick V8 being slotted into the P6 in both auto and manual form and the Triumph finishing up as the 2500S model - both great cars.

I had a couple of those when I was young. Had a few dolomites as well. I bought a Dolomite of a friend's mum for £25, it had a MOT as well. The Stag is my favourite Triumph 👍

Great review Jack, and an awesome car, I've tuned up no end of Triumph 2.5Pi, TR5s and TR6's. Once fitted with a Bosch fuel pump and a few other little enhancements they are a cracking car that gives many smiles to the gallon. The saloon is amazingly sprightly for it's time, and was a step in the right direction. With all the issues of the pump these days sorted out they make a very enjoyable classic car that can easily keep up with modern traffic 👍

I drove a Mk2 PI police car throughout most of the 1970’s in inner London. i absolutely loved it. Yes it could be unreliable and yes it was a nightmare to start it when it got hot, I can still hear that sound of trying to crank the engine over in my ear. I also drove the P6, 2500 TC and the 2800 SD1. Mark 4 or 5 Cortina and the 2000 Sierra. The Triumph was by far the most enjoyable one of the bunch. Great memories for me.

Buon Natale Jack!! Thanks for providing such entertaining content. Love these ‘obscure’ car reviews that have become a mainstay of your channel. All the best for 2024

That car looks _amazing_ ! I had forgotten that there even was a 2500 PI in the mk1 shape... Fantastic ! I had a plain old 1969 2000 in the early 80s, and it was a _bit_ troublesome :o( But it was my 2nd car owned after a terrible BL mini, and it sounded great when it was working - I really like the look of this shaped Triumph series. Can I put my hand up for a Stag review please Jack ?

There was another issue which though serious most owners hopefully never discovered! The engine has a 4 main bearing crank and in 2.5ltr form a very nasty crank resonance at only 5,700rpm (from memory). If the driver tried to over-rev the engine then the crank would simply snap. Not pretty!!

Having had the Mk2 Triumph 2.5 Pi it certainly in that Era was a very rapid car well built and even the Police had them in use,They did have problems with the fuel pumps sold it for a triumph 2000 which i kept for many years sold it to a Neighbour who ran it for another 10 years with no real problems.HAPPY DAYS simple controls for all seasons vehicles now far to COMPLICATED with SCREENS for basic controls where your vision is NOT on the ROAD the MK2 2000 on the road price then £1635 that was a lot of cash then

Oh my goodness, that is a beautiful example. A very good looking car in my opinion. Performance good even by modern standards as well, 0-60 mph in under 10 seconds is decently quick.

Nice review Ian. I had a MK2 2000 in Australia which I purchased new and it remains one of the better cars I have owned. I think you said that the PI was discontinued for the MK2 versions. That certainly wasn't the case here (I suspect the UK as well) in fact most PIs here are/were MK2s. We also had a limited production run as part of the MK1 model run known as the 2000 MD. These had a slightly warmed engine with three SUs. They also were supplied with wire wheels which looked rather nice. As far as I know these were an Australian model only. Triumphs here were locally assembled arriving from the UK in CKD form.

A Traffic Officer in New Zealand had the MK2 2500S as his "covert car".... He used to wear a flat cap and a tweed jacket over his uniform shirt and tootle along at the speed limit....and book cars travelling well in excess of the speed limit (80 to 100kmh on the open road). It was the shock value of the "old man in the grandad car" actually being a Ministry of Transport car...... He said that it was his favourite car to drive...so comfortable when compared with the Holdens and Ford Cortinas that were the usual black and white uniform cars of the time...

The PI engine would have been a good variant in the Stag as a lower priced version under the V8. It certainly is a nice characterful unit.

Excellent vid loved it. Dad had a mk 2 2.5 pi estate with od . Went like the clappers, and easily went beyond 100mph on the motorways.

Many years ago, we had a 1975 P Reg 2000 TC Estate with overdrive and the previous owner had fettled it so it had overdrive in every gear including reverse, making it a real 10 speed!! I fitted Spax (remember those) adjustable dampers to the rear, originals were totally shot. The rear diff whined a lot, so had that rebuilt and new wheel bearings all round. We did many miles with our two young kids after fitting seat harnesses. Remember the front seats as very squishy but supportive, like many Citroen cars of the same era. It lasted a few years then failed an MOT big time so went for scrap. It had a Webasto fabric sunroof and wonder of wonders, a heated rear screen, but none of today's essentials like central locking, remote mirrors, auto dimming rear mirror, auto wipers or headlights. As a former Marine Engineer, I could do it all myself, but now we pay £75 just for the garage to plug in the code reader.....happy days.

As school kids, my friend, David Stewart, used to bring his parents' car to school, a 2.5 pi. It was amazing. It could drive 50 mph backward! All triumphs were brilliant, and it has been my pleasure to own many. Dolomite, Spitfire, Herald, 2000, 2500.... all great cars.

Great to see a Mk1 on the channel. My late Dad had several Mk1 2500 PI's and was well known in the UK for his tuning abilities on these. As there were not many people that could correctly setup the mechanical timed fuel injection. That style was officially called the Mk1, and later there was the Mk2. They said they were detuned, however when you Dyno'd them they were still 150bhp, and with some minor old school tuning "Porting and polishing of the TBI's. (Yes these had 6 individual throttle bodies), then they would put out 165bhp. Which for a engine of that era is pretty insane. Bearing in mind the much later 3500 Rover V8 SD1 was 150bhp.

Beautiful car. I like the MK1.

Fabulous choice for Christmas Day! Your videos keep getting better with each upload and your knowledge and enthusiasm are a joy. Thanks!

Best version was the MK2 manual with overdrive. A really good sports saloon that was so underrated. Fit the Lucas fuel pump and you were fine.

When I were a lad, my Uncle had one of these. He was stopped more than once for speeding! Yet another 'If only' car from Triumph, like the Stag. That car is stunning, a real credit to its owner. I think I recognise some of the roads you were on from Harry's Garage videos. Do you live close to Harry?

I spent time as a passenger in the Mark 1 2500 PI estate and was amazed at how smooth and comfortable it was. Strangely I recall the overdrive button being on the gear knob like the later Mark 2 versions but perhaps that was a modification. Also the overdrive worked in 3rd and 4th giving effectively 6 speed. At the time I preferred the looks of the later Mark 2s and still do to some extent, especially the interior but these older cars do have a real charm and grow on you. PI also did reappear with the Mark 2 for some if not most models but there was also a TC twin carb version.

The main competitor to the Triumph 2000 was the Rover P6 2000 not the P5 3 lire pictured. My father had two Triumph 2000s, one of which, a 1967 version, became my first car. They were comfortable and we did many trips to Cornwall from Cardiff before the M5 motorway.

I owned a GT6 Mk1, and also a TR6 ( 150BHP) with the TR6 the first thing i was told to do was take the sound proofing away from the fuel pump, otherwise i may get an overheated pump. The straight 6 would go on and on they were great cars and a great engine with a marvelous exhaust note, , the Police used the 2.5 PI saloon. I had no problem whatsoever with the PI only that it was thirsty, so as i had done with the GT6 i went back to 1 3/4 SU carbs and got a really good MPG but sacrificed the top end speed., I had the car tunes in Manchester at Watson and Jeffreys, whilst it was still a PI They told me i had a very nice car and on the rolling road it was putting out 150BHP on the back wheels it would have given more but the clutch started to paly up. The saloon your driving is a magnificent example and we must think of what might have been if Leyland hadn't stopped the Triumph production line., guess once you've owned a Triumph your a life long fan. Thank you for the video and the memories it brings back. Sisaket Thailand.

It's not true to say it's only problem was the fuel pump, the biggest problem was the white metal thrust washers on the crank. I had one that I bought from an auction at what I thought was a bargain price, it was as solid as a rock and very clean, after a few weeks these thrust washers dropped into the sump due to excess wear. I removed the engine and took the block to an engineers who had repaired a number of these engines, they made a special thrust bearing out of Phosphor Bronze and dowelled it to the block, a big job but it cured the problem. The reason for the failure was the extra pressure put onto the washers by the uprated clutch needed for the extra power due to the increase to a 2500cc capacity and the PI system. Without doubt the best car I have ever owned, I wish I still had it.

Nothing wrong with 90bhp back in the 60s ,my mk3 zephyr only had 95bhp from a 2.5 litre six, you didn't get the power then that a turbo can give to even a 1500cc modern engine ,

I believe they had a reputation for catching fire when the plastic pipes supplying the fuel injection became brittle/cracked and sprayed fuel all over the engine. My Dad nearly bought the estate car but didn't because of this.

You seem to have omitted one more major flaw, this flaw was poor crankshaft thrust washers that wore out producing excessive crankshaft end float, which in turn lead to a very stiff clutch pedal operation and terminated with a clutch pedal with reduced movement, due to an increase in thrust bearing to pressure plate distance and therefore running out of slave cylinder travel.

drove one in the early '70's -it was a company pool car(!) for a group of us relocating from Scotland to the midlands. Hot starts were a disaster - the petrol pump cooked (under the boot floor) and when you stopped the fuel in the pump would vapourize, and then it wouldn't start until it had cooled down again. But once going - it was a great car (we had a 1958 beetle as our own car, so bit of a dramatic difference!)

Did British Leyland EVER build a vehicle that did not have a serious flaw ?? :)

I'm not sure you're correct about the injection being phased out after a year and being replaced by carbs. I am pretty sure the 2500PI continued for many years in the mk2/facelift version, well into the 1970s with fuel injection. However the 2000 mk1 and mk2 always stayed with (twin) carb fuel system.

What a charming old thing, imagine it being a favorite of bank bank robbers back in the day, would give Regans 3.0 Consul GT a run for it's money, must admit i do prefer the styling of the Mk2 car.

The 2.5TC was a favorite of cannabis growers in New Zealand. At the time the police had Cortinas, the Triumph with the power and independent rear suspension would leave them choking in the dust on the back country unsurfaced roads.

My mate Nick’s Dad had one of these in the late Seventies. For some wild reason his Dad let him drive it full of his mates to obscure country pubs in Hampshire and West Sussex. It saved us getting soaking wet on the motorbikes and they soon faded as we realised the lure of the car as opposed to the bike! I can remember the car had some poke to it, even with five burly teenagers in it. A very luxurious interior with soft suspension that gave a queasy ride for those in the back. Nothing to do with the four pints of Ruddles County consumed by the four reprobate passengers. Great memories - and of course happy birthday to my mate Nick for next month. He’ll be 65……….

we had the face lifted one after that shape it had the full vinyl sunroof with the Borg Warner Automatic box it was an absolute rocket all my friends wanted to come in it because my dad wasn’t shy with his right foot. We used to stand up on the back seat with the roof open getting peppered by the flies, no seat belts back then 😅great memories. We had fuel pump issues too but they did make it accessible in the boot on the right hand side lol

Beautiful car 🚗❤ If I wasnt a P6 man through and through I'd probably have a 2500!

A mate had one - we called it the Juice Canoe. And yep, trying to start it from hot was very...trying.

Back in the day a lot of adverts appeared in Exchange & Mart from companies who would fix the mechanical fuel injection. It scared a lot of people but was all logical and simple and in reality could be fixed at home. Overdrive had a subtle advantage over a 5th gear, in that it enabled you to do an upshift without lifting off. I am a geriatric now but as a young part-time hooligan with a hotted up small Ford the Rovers P6 V8s were easy to outrun particularly on twisty sections. The Triumphs were more sporty handling. Jack if you get the opportunity try to get hold of a Dolomite Sprint, it has been over 40 years since I last drove one, they are impressive in stock form and can readily be made even quicker. Definitely a wolf in sheep's clothing. Happy Xmas to all at Number 27

My brother had the later face-lift model. The big flaw for him was wrapping it around a tree at speed.

Not thrashing it? In fact these engines depend upon being driven hard. The injection system isn't capable of accurate low fuelling, being a mechanical, and therefore not terribly sophisticated design. Sure, it was cutting edge in its day, but reality is what it is. The Police absolutely loved the PI 2.5 Triumphs, as they outlasted three Ford Granadas, apparently. Weak spots in the design were thrust-bearings on the crankshaft that wore quickly if you spent too much time with the clutch held down. Later models with the overdrive in the gear-knob had the connecting wires suffer from metal fatigue as the lever was operated over time. Easy to fix with a short bit of wire, but very frustrating. Then there were the fuel injectors that would 'stick', causing misfiring, loss of performance, and generally a disappointing driving experience. This seemed to be because of 'gumming up', and also suffering from metal expansion differentials. The usual fix was to tap them with a toffee hammer (like a sticking starter), and all was well, but hardly the stuff of luxury motoring. Going back to the thrashing or not of the engine, well, the engine can easily take it, and it actually made the car run beautifully cleanly, and sweetly, with none of the aforementioned hiccoughs and splutters. The fuelling issue also made the plugs foul up easily, yet another reason to give the car an 'Italian tune-up'. You can't 'over service' these older designs, and the secret to their longevity is to go overboard with the process. Be a finicky fusspot, and your Triumph will reward you in spades. Something else about these cars is their road handling. They can be flung around like rally cars, and still not bite you on the bum for doing so. Set them up for a corner and hang the tail out like a professional. The Mk2 versions had a slightly wider rear track (not sure about the front), that controlled the lean angle a bit better, but technically the semi-trailing arm rear independent suspension worked better for the narrower track, keeping the contact patch better angled. As an aside, I recall having to 'upgrade' cars during major services by lubricating the sliding splines on the rear drive half-shafts with graphite grease we had added lead filings to! Apparently it mitigated a 'click' from them under torque transition, and also attended to stiction under hard acceleration (when the rear squatted and the half-shafts had to extend to enable this). Ho Hum, memory lane !

remember driving a NZ assembled Triumph 2000 sedan at the time of the 70's and found it a really old mans car, really sluggish, compared to the NZ assembled Mazda RX2 I owned at the time.

My father had a 1969 2.5PI Estate in the same colour as the car featured in your clip, He had it in 1970, I do remember faults wit the fuel pumps

I was a school kid in fhe 70s and engine size was everything. BHP didnt matter. No one understood it or power to weight ratios. What mattered was the engine size and this was plastered all over the car in a brilliant marketing excercise to fool the buyer. So all they had to do was say their car was. 3 litre and it sold on that even if it only had 110bhp and weighed 2 tons. Leyland were always known to be brilliant designs executed badly. They could have been a fantastic brand but ruined by the unions and a militant workforce. This is a beautiful example and no doubt better than the day it was made. Can i also say a very well made professional video. Thank you.

Good video to go with my Xmas morning coffee. I had a Mk 1 2000 and a very early Mk 2 PI. Yes, I had a breakdown with the fuel pump but the RAC man got me going by giving it a bash with a spanner. Even in the 80s getting a recon unit was a faff and I had to trek up to West London to a tiny workshop in a viaduct arch under the District Line. No problems apart from that, good acceleration and great exhaust note.

My dad and I pulled one of these out of a garage in about 1985. It was an ex diplomats car and lived in the Bahamas for a while. That said it was frilly round the edges and had been brush painted. The straight 6 was great but we never got the car back up and on the road. It got sold to some banger racers…..but I kept the dials which I still have!

A family member had one of these. I think thar the front was different (sharper). The Lucas fuel injection alway emitted a quite loud high pitched sound. The car never gave any trouble and was used for many years.

To add a bit of context, 90 bhp was OK for a two-litre touring engine in the '60s. The MGB had 95 horse from its 1798cc four, but it was considered more a sports engine (had a rev counter, the period badge of sporting aspirations). Besides, Triumph hardly wanted to steal the TR4's thunder; it had 100+ bhp from its 2.2-litre four. Also, while Leyland may have been best known for its lorries, the firm did make one car, the Leyland Eight, from 1920-23. Mind you, it looked a bit lorry-like, but, with special bodywork, it later lapped Brooklands at 130 mph: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leyland_Eight

The 2.5PI was the very best car I ever owned, and this includes an E-Type V12, a 911 3.8S Gen 2, a Panamera, TR6, MGC, and James May's old 2000. Mine was a 1972 2.5 PI Mk2, owned over a twelve year period, which I had completely restored. Like this Mk1 PI, it had the unrestricted engine with 132bhp and max torque starting way low down at 2,000rpm and right up to the red line with a smooth as silk acceleration with no sense of rumble or imbalance from the engine. Ice Blue paint with Powder Blue interior. I actually secured new old stock of the later seats with headrests. 0-60 was about 8-seconds, but the top speed on four star was 125mph. Not the rubbish that every magazine would state as being 107mph. These cars had to have everything set up by one who knew about the system; knowing the tricks to get out of trouble, like air locks and sticking Lucas fuel pumps in excessively hot weather. The 110psi fuel pump sat right above the exhaust backbox which heated up the metal boot floor in which the pump was affixed to! I've heard it that one of these on 100 RON five star or converted to run on the latest 98/99 RON super unleaded (the valve seats require changing to hardened ones) with manual/overdrive can do a red-line top speed of 130mph. This begs the need for a higher ratio differential as the body with it's two rear scoops, (back window and tail light panel) and the narrow and low frontal profile make this car very aerodynamic for the time and relatively so ever since. I found it so stable on motorways. 80-100 was so effortlessly quick and smooth in direct top and way quicker than my BMW 540i. It could keep abreast with a Double Six to 110. The black-rimmed cluster of instrument dials and the better grade of dashboard veneers that the PI's had over every other model were just magnificent looking. The legroom was superb for a tall driver. These cars had a more supple ride than a P6 Rover, although the Rover did look rather dignified and stately on the outside over the long, low-lying Triumph Mk 2 saloon, - which these were. A BMW M5 of it's day. The Rover SD1 was basically the follow-on from these in wheelbase and size, though interior headroom was lower in an SD1 by quite a margin as my Dad found out in a test drive, so he kept his '77 2500TC for a few more years. The SD1's also tended to rattle with poorly appointed fixtures and shoddy assembly. The 2300 and 2600 engines in the SD1 were actually intended for a newer 2000/2500 replacement Triumph saloon, but BL management decided to cull the in-house competition between Rover and Triumph and instead deployed these in the later released SD1 six-cylinder variants. 4 Reply

Great video but no mate, the "Lotus Carlton" of its day was of course the Rover P6 3500S.

I had the 2000 Mk1 in the same colour as that (1967 - ESY588E), it had carburetors of course but was a lovely car apart from the usual rust issues which plagued all cars then. I later had the Mk2 2000 in white (OUK134L), the big problem with both being that neither had overdrive and they were seriously under geared, even the ones with overdrive were doing about 4000 revs at 70mph. In the early 70s I also used to drive Mk2 2.5PIs as a Police Officer in Leicestershire, with the old 'jam sandwich' police livery with red side stripes. The gearboxes tended to be noisy but we thought they were really rapid machines, which compared to our Morris Minor 1000 traveler pander cars they were!

Great video. I owned a '72 Mk 2 PI manual/overdrive. Had the car for approx 6 yrs in the mid '80's. Apart from rotting out the rear muffler regularly, it never put a foot wrong. Never had a problem with the PI system (Lucas pump). A couple of English mechanics here in Christchurch, New Zealand really new their suff regarding PI's. I got it serviced every year by them. A very quick car at the time. I still regard this car as one of the best I've owned.

Had one 2.5 pi estate.changed fuel pump changed metering unit with bosch parts and it was a beast.loved mine till I changed it.

I drove a 2.5 Pi as a rozzer. They had an experimental auto gearbox that made it accelerate like a scalded cat but topped out at 90mph which was fine for central London. A gearbox lasted on average for 10k miles before it blew. They had a hot start fault where the petrol vapourised in the fuel line, This was solved by a traffic cop who suggested a coiled fuel line to assist cooling, this was adopted by 'Triumph' as a solution and was retro fitted to all police supplied cars. They also averaged 12 mpg in our hands but were great fun after the old Rover V8s that were too big for London traffic.

Try getting hold of a Dolly Sprint because they were one of Triumph's best ever saloon cars.

If you were upwardly mobile half a century ago these were on your radar.Still sound lovely.

Loved the MK2, what a roar from that engine

Remember seeing these old British cars in films and TV programmes of the 70s and they always look knackered even though they were only several years old 😂. Lovely old car

6:02 It's hardly a 'serious' flaw when it can be rectified with a simple replacement aftermarket pump.

my dad had the 65 triumph 2000 back in 66 he bought it over the rover 2000 the car here is the best looking 2.5 pi of the lot had the earlier lights and dash etc they are great cars ! that example is totally lovely!!

There's still quite a few Triumph 2000/2500's in New Zealand, more the Mk2, but a few Mk1's. A very popular middle management company car. Other modern touches for the Mk1 was the boosted front disc brakes, independent rear suspension and like Ford, the use of McPherson struts up front. A really well respected car and built out of quality materials and for the time, well equipped. The engine by the '70's, was showing its age however, with its long stroke small bore in the 2500 variant typical of British cars of the era, and 4 main bearings. But in carburetted form, really reliable.

Wasn’t the Vanguard made by Standard? Did Triumph buy them out or something?

The Rover P6 or the Volvo 140 were more natural competitors than the P5.

When I raced mine, it'd cut out on corners due to tank slosh. One needed almost a full tank of fuel. Great machine. I suspect this PI has had Mk 2 rear arms fitted.

The Lucas PI was basically a cracking system that had good injection pressure ( 6.5bar vs 3bar for later electrically controlled systems up to the introduction of DI ) and was fully sequential. Was extremely successfull in motorsport and was used by Cosworth on DFV and BDG type engines in F1 etc. and rally sport for a long time. Like mechanical fuel injection systems in general it struggled with worn engines and vacuum leaks on the intake as no way to have closed loop control and adjust the calibration to suit. The electric fuel pump issue was a particular weakness of the application in Triumphs, all other applications had engine driven pumps as far as I know - including several production Maseratis.

Both the 2000 and Rover P6 (SC) came out in 1963, which pre-dates BL by 5 years. One of us was taught to drive by his Dad in such a 2000. Such great memories. That car was the last year for the Mk 1. The independent semi-trailing arm rear suspension gives power-on negative camber, or lift off tail out oversteer. You needed to be on the ball. Essentially, mechanical PI can never be as clever as computer-controlled solenoid-based injection from a constant pressure fuel rail. It is really a six gear car. Overdrive is on third and fourth.

Happy Christmas Jack. That's a lovely example of a mk1 2500 PI, my friend had one, it really was a hot rod, manual overdrive, but had trouble hot starting and used enormous amounts of fuel. I had a 1975 model MK 2 2500 TC 4 speed manual , complete with Mini-light mags wheels now it was a nice comfortable driver, with a respectable turn of speed and great fuel economy. Yes they were nice cars.

Thank you for this but one error was that it's principal competitors were the Rover P6 in 2000/2200 however Rover knocked the ball out the court with the P6 V8.

My second car was yellow mk2 pi. Yes they did make them! Pi was fine but the engine is prone to big end problems. It only has 4 main bearings and unlike some v8’s and v6’s they had 6 separate cranks in the crank shaft

I have owned a 2.5Pi mk1 for nearly 20 years, always been on SU Carbs, but that does not diminish the fun aspect of driving the car, slightly lowered, Konis etc with a modified engine, the car goes like a train...always surprises other drivers when one drives along a motorway. Best thing is the handling with those suspension mods and decent polybushes, it transforms the car, producing a very well balanced machine that just begs to be shown a fast A road. The fitment of a decent fuel pump and regular maintence makes the Pi cars a very decent car. BMW obviously thought so, the suspension configuration of the first 5 series cars is almost identical.

I had a TR5pi for 27 years and and no problems with the pi or original fuel pump in the boot had a cooling coil fitted.

Long time listener, first time caller.. Most Triumphs downunder, as the redoubtable Vanguards before, were assembled here CKD with quality and care by AMI (Australian Motor Industries). Unique to AMI was its very sporty triple-carb 2000 ‘MD’ variant, only offered in Mk1 guise. For trivia AMI also built Toyotas and Rambler cars (including btw a few r/h/d Javelin and yes AMX!) which all shared the same distinctive corporate Dulux colour palette and high quality Ambla upholstery trim - in effect a veritable tri-nation calling card. Like so many British vehicles of the day, these Triumph 6cyl saloons were undeniably romantic cars. Even the base 2000 had that semi-sporting air, and which btw were raced in-period at Bathurst. Personally I also much favour the Mk1 variants, both in external style plus its wonderfully distinctive dashboard. I’m surprised to re-learn of the rarity of the Mk1 PI as I well remember sighting them on the streets of Melbourne. Local magazine coverage and tests of Trumpys were also well featured. One of my ‘work cars’ was an almost new 2500 TC, an engaging machine and probably the pick of the range? I still recall its blend of ‘quiet luxury’ plus that small but smooth inline 6 which for bonus points developed a terrific sounding howl of efficiency as you piled the revs on. Negatives hereabouts including the 2000 were their consistent and ever-growing demands for finicky maintenance (or resultant unreliability) post-warranty, coupled to a relatively short service life. And if cornered in extremis, with the rear body roll that ensued, those halfshafts could jam up on the splines and instantly snap you into the most sudden of oversteer high-drama. But all told, Triumph had a good thing going with its 6cyl small-capacity deluxe saloon formula. As many have said, a British pre-BMW with continuing potential. Plus those rorty TR sports cars, the cute Spitfire and cute-as GT6. It all added towards the marque’s credibility. Looking back it’s amazing how this once-mainstream and much loved Brand just seemed to peter out here and disappear, seemingly while our backs were turned..

I had one of these, and also a TR6 and a GT6. I would say, you don't really know that much about them. The fuel pump was a minor problem compared to the Lucas mechanical fuel injection system. Then there was the long, small-diameter crankshaft. Not to mention the crummy semi-circular crankshaft end float washer, which invariably wore out. That caused the crank to float back and forth, causing early main bearing and big end failure. (I had to strip mine and have the crank ground). I used to carry 2 spare injectors because they had a habit of clogging at any time. However it only took minutes to change one. I bought a 'window' spark plug so as to be able to tune the injectors. It was lovely to drive when it was all working. Later I got a TR6 and connected the electric overdrive to work on 2nd 3rd and 4th gears. All the same problems mentioned above.

That’s a wolf in sheep’s clothing. I love the Michelotti styling.

The Mk2 2.5 Pi,s ran for about 6 years before becoming the 2500S also the estate Mk2,s were by carbody and used the Mk1 rear ends& tailgate , lovely cars and nice video :-)

It is a lovely car but it isn't the Lotus Carlton of the 60s. In your own words, "It was really quite a quick thing for the time", but 111mph top speed wouldn't have had it in the top 10 fastest 4 doors in the world. Meanwhile, the Lotus Carlton was the world's fastest 4 door sedan in 91.

One of my uncles had a mk2 2500 tc on wire wheels. I absolutely loved it. Very good looking inside and out and very refined. Went well too . There was a reliability problem with it though. My aunt asked me to driver her on a fairly long trip. About 1/2 way there it lost compression on one cylinder and we had to limp the rest of the way. Uncle replaced the engine and sold it a few years later. I whish he had tlod he was going to sell as I may have bought it. Although at the time I was into Alfas, so maybe not. It is a car I often think about fondly.

Nice one Jack. when I was at senior school my dad had a late MK2 2.5PI Auto with all the factory extras that he bought with the injection system fault and then thoroughly fixed it. what a mover that car was and a real looker to boot, I mean, it was really coooool back in the late 70s. straight after school I went on to work with him at a Triumph Stag specialist and Stags were like turning it up to eleven

One of the cars that my school-friends' parents had. Interesting to hear how it strikes you in 2023.

What a beautiful car and a stunning example. Merry Christmas all and a happy new year!

Those bloody awful crankshaft thrust washers...

Fuel injection, "Trouble free" can't be a Lucas

These triumph mk1 and 2 were lovely cars. The mk2 was basically a restyled mk 1. The estate used the same rear end on the mks 1 and 2 if my memory serves me right.

Lovely feature of a Magnificent car. Truly enjoyed it. Sad about all the BL stuff going on which hampered the progress of such Fine cars.😊

Great cars. I do more miles in my TR6 with that engine, than any of my other classics. Merry Christmas!

Very enjoyable thank you Jack. The electric fuel pumps were more of a nightmare in the TR6 as they overheated in a sealed compartment behind a panel in the boot. Lucas missed a trick from Bosch, using the fuel to provide cooling. The mechanical injection pump was also a problem the designe must have been borrowed from Leylands Diesel engines, but didn't have the lubrication that diesel fuel (oil) provided. Therefore did wear prematurely, the shuttle piston that metered the fuel slowly had a longer and longer travel as wear took place, making the mixture very rich. My TR6 ended up doing only 12 mpg, belched out black smoke and used to soot up the plugs. This was at a very low mileage, it was only 18 months old. This could be compensated for by winding in a grub screw under the pump which had a lock nut securing it. I fitted a really early Pirana electronic ignition, harder plugs with large gaps, and could run on a very weak mixture without affecting performance. Using overdrive it could achieve 30mpg on a long run at illegal speeds on the motorway! To minimise wear on the mechanical pump, Redex uper cylinder lubricant in the fuel did a good job!

Back in the late seventies the Triumph 2500PI was a known car to avoid. Not so much the fuel pump, but the dire Lucas fuel injection system, which cost ££££ to fix once out of warranty. In 1979 I bought a Mk2 2500TC (manual o/d) instead, this was a very good car, which I had for two years before upgrading to a Rover 3500SD1. The only thing that went wrong with it was a snapped throttle cable and the RAC man jury rigged a hand throttle cable through the quarter light at the side of the M62, which got me home. This was one of two cars I wished I could have kept and I see them at classic cars shows (the other my E28 BMW 735i V8 px'ed for my retirement car in 2018). The engine in the 2500TC was sufficiently good and reliable that it was one of the options to retrofit into the plagued Triumph Stag. I agree with your assessment of the performance, handling, ride and interior and for its time it was a leading example of the best UK car makers could produce. Alas how soon their crown was to slip...

Its main British rival was the rover p6, not the p5.

A great car but again let down by terrible Brit management .

My brothers first car was a Triumph 2000. It was very competent and he sold it to go overseas. 47 years ago but remember it well

My Dad had a Mk 2 2.5 PI, FXD 611J from 6 months old bought from Henleys. This was an early one, no inertia seatbelts, no tinted glass, no hazard lights, plastic seats, no power steering, however it did have overdrive. He did 140,000 miles in it, the pump went at 80,000 miles. I had a PI, TPX 675k. Emerald green with a full length webasto roof, tinted glass, inertia seatbelts and grey plastic seats. The problem with this one was the previous owner had upgraded the engine to 150 bhp. The power sheared the flywheel on the automatic gearbox so I converted it to manual, This was easy, new pedal box, clutch, gearbox, lever etc and prop shaft. In 1983 when I did this there were so many at the breakers I just got all the bits secondhand. I swapped it for a Dolomite Sprint. This was a really really nice car. I then had a 2500S, PJM 420R. Compared to the PI's it was rubbish. A lot slower and it used a lot more fuel. The worst part was these cars rusted really badly compared to the earlier cars. The reason I was given is BL started using cheap Russian steel ?. Anyway, the auto gearbox packed up on the way to Cambridge so I bought a rusty PI estate and converted it to manual. What I should have done is transfered the whole lot over rather than just the gearbox. I sold the PI engine in an hour after the advert went into Exchange and Mart. The PI and the 2500S did around 18 mpg around town. The PI would easily do 27 mpg on a run driven at sensible speeds. The 2500S I had could not manage more than 20 mpg even with overdrive, NGK plugs, electronic ignition. I did my best. Remember the PI was a lot lot faster and a lot more pleasent to drive. John Bolster tested a PI in around 1969, as I remember he said that in the future all cars will be fuel injected. True words. In my opinion is the best 2.5 PI's are the really late ones with the different grille, Dolomite instruments, cloth trim etc etc etc. One simple test for the fuel injection is to hold the pipe to each of the injectors and feel the pulse, each pipe should have an even pulse. You can feel it like a heartbeat. A very good indication to the serviceability of the fuel injection. According to my Dad a lot of the issues were mechanics whose understanding went no further than a Morris Minor, Marina or an A40. What amuses me is you get so many people who slag the fuel injection off, yes, these Plebs have never even owned a fuel injected Triumph. The question for these well informed pilgrims is this. Why are there still a lot of these fuel injected Triumphs still on the road when the last new one was available in 1976 ?

I owned one back in the day when only nineteen years old, tearing along the recently completed M62 in West Yorkshire. I loved it, great in a straight line but not so entertaining in the bends and rather thirsty as I recall, although that was probably down to an exuberant teen at the wheel. Remembered with affection to this day and basked in the knowledge that not many cars could match its performance apart from the boys in blue with whom it was a popular squad car choice. Nicely reviewed, thanks.