Like I tell my students and fellow law enforcement officers... I teach a combination of Muay Thai (stand up and clinch), BJJ (takedowns, controls, submissions), and Filipino Kali (Stick, Knife, and empty hand tricks)... this what I train and coach. On top of what I use out there as a LEO.
Schools eventually teach the sport instead of the art, conflating the two. The BJJ school I go to has options of classes where it's based on gi or no-gi and self defense/sport classes. The self defense classes are much different because we are taught how to deal with common strikes. The sport classes are just the sport and are advertised as such.
even as sport they are still soft unlike in the old days like in 80's or 90's. When I was at Judo School, it was 20 or more people join the class, but in next 6 month only 4 remains. But now, I see many people join Judo and the training are not that harsh for safety reason.
@@nickfry7839 That’s not really the right analogy my friend. These guys are talking about the training habits and techniques that are used in the sport aspect that are counter to basic principles of self-defence. Eg they mentioned early the sitting down and butt scooting in comp BJJ. There is closer to zero use for that technique in a street encounter. If you’re training purely for self-defence you wouldn’t waste any time training that technique. Why? You want to remain mobile and moving around as much as possible especially at the beginning of a violent situation because a). you may have the opportunity to escape by running away, b). while you’re up and mobile you’re harder to strike and can maintain distance in the case of a blade being introduced late in to the confrontation, and c). while sitting on your butt you’re much more vulnerable to a soccer kick to the head from an unseen trailing accomplice or the original attacker. The arm bar is also a very bad self defence technique imo for similar reasons. The most useful BJJ techniques are the carotid artery chokes, the Kimura/ Americana and the leg and ankle locks which can destroy an attacker’s mobility, which means they can’t get up and chase the defender.
@@wattlebough i roll in my gym noone butt scoots, we most of the time shoot in with double legs, or go for single legs, honest question, are we not sport rolling and we are self defense rolling? granted, most of our coaches were collegiate wrestlers.
Something I’ve often thought, the MOST watered-down aspect of the average BJJ class was the canned “Self Defense” technique portion and not the competition class. And it comes down to pressure testing. I never see people actually spar the self defense techniques, at least no more than your average Aikido or Krav Maga class. A class like Craig Douglas’ ECQC or EWO does a better job in that particular aspect, because it does use so much pressure testing.
For real! I come from a background in American Kenpo and, frankly, the Gracie Self Defense techniques are rarely any better than stuff I learned in my old system. Some of them I felt were worse!
@@mattjack3983 to me, what would make the difference would be trying to practice the moves in an ego-driven, competitive sparring session, “if you can hit me in the face, stab me with that dummy knife, or hold me down, I’ll buy your dinner after class” But in general, SD is taught as “moves” which is shit. Concepts, like “keep your hips lower than their hips” “drive your forehead into their jaw line during a clinch and keep your shoulders and head squared against them” “try to control the inside space with an underhook” etc. It makes a road map for when the situation doesn’t fit into the neat little boxes of the canned moves, and instills the confidence for any situation because you’ve been there, against an actual skilled adversary, numerous times before.
That's because they people who run martial arts classes get insurance to protect themselves from lawsuits due to injuries. If they let kids in the pressure test and one of them gets injured then it's highly likely an angry parent will sue.
@@rwdchannel2901 that's certainly a reason but I don't think it's the only reason. I honestly think they are filling a market demand. Average, non-fighting people want "a move" that will win them the fight and they get lost in the nuance of "well yes but actually no" when it comes to self defense training. Now I do think that BJJ gyms who go into this self defense work need to hold themselves to a higher standard and educate customers about what actually works by showing them that it works. And as far as liability goes, it's no more dangerous than sparring in BJJ, wrestling, mma, or any other striking art where kids sign up for the stuff all the time. It's all in how it's presented.
Alot of the bjj conversations I find lacking. They tend to ignore that competitive high level guys are now incorporating wrestling alot. Because of organizations such as ADCC it's getting really good
Also as the sport evolves bjj develops submission based takedown defenses. They know basic takedowns they can transition from a failed takedown attempt to a quick sweep. They can rip off your foot from standing. I don't get this bjj is watered down thing. We have more move and system than ever. It is the burden of the practitioner. If you want self defense maybe you shouldn't center your game around lasso guard. And maybe sometomes you should ask a friend to spar with you with mma gloves. Or you should take kick boxing classes for few months... People acts like you need to be state champion boxer and wrestler to survive against street fucking nothing...
@@katokianimation Garry Tonon submiting nakahara with a heel hook in 30 seconds of fight without needing a takedown its a great example. Charles Oliveira as lightweight champion of UFC is just a proof that BJJ is not dying or something like that... And if Do Bronx finishes Islam, then that's the ultimate proof.
Brilliant Coach …. such a wide range of understanding and application.Would love to have him as a Coach 🙏🏽 much Respect for this hard earned embodied wisdom and clarity
I think the reason people have a problem with BJJ is One - they've never tried it so they just don't understand how soul crushing it is to have a higher belt grab you and essentially kill you four Times in a round and all your spazzing around didn't change a thing Two - they get butthurt and start dickwaving because BJJ is marketed as "the best martial art" and they want Everyone to know that no their art is No martial art is the best And a lot of them are extremely effective and of story There is plenty of evidence on RU-vid showing BJJ guys wrecking people in self defense situations just like boxing judo etc Also in the west the unconcious Idea of fighting is tied to striking because that's what people grow up watching on TV so they dont feel like grappling is fighting and dont respect it as much Contrast that to a lot of eastern countries where grappling is the predominant style and is more respected
Nice conversation! Thought - perhaps the watering down of martial arts is partly because of the idea of a unified ruleset. For example, in Judo, the Olympics has led to the vast majority of schools training to that single set of rules, which doesn't allow for a diversity of approaches/ideas. But in BJJ, we have IBJJF rules, no-gi rules, submission only rules (e.g. EBI), ADCC rules, MMA rules and even combat BJJ rules, etc. All those different scenarios means the serious BJJ practitioner has to be at least aware of different scenarios, and makes 'group think' a lot less likely. It's one of the reasons I really hope that BJJ never makes the Olympics as that will lead to a serious economic incentive to move to one ruleset
At 2:25 , that's the point . Many schools/gyms/academies , are not honest they are not sharing the truth with their patrons, and students find out later in a bad situation , that they are ill prepared to defend themselves .
Looking at the title I wouldn't have bothered watching this but looking in the description, you are talking to Eli Knight, so i'll watch it. You should have been less condescending in the title, you're talking to a really insightful intelligent person
14:00 is a great point. Add in knives, pistols, 2nd person in a BJJ class, and see if the technique holds in real life self-defence! Train for what u need (eg. competition or street fight.)
Does anything works in this scenario reliable though? Boxing: while you are dancing with one person the other can get behind you and choke you. Or both can rush on you and controll you. One shot ko. is rare. You will be stabbed at least few time before you knock out the knife Wrestling: knee in the face from the friend. Kinfe in the back 70 times. It is a common meme that you just have to knife hand the back to stop a double leg... but if you have an actual knife in your hand, yeah it stops being BS. I think as an offense only boxing or clinch fighting would work in a situation when a friend clould jump in. As a defense though clearing grips from any position and any angle is a skill you realy want when somebody grabs you in a multiply opponent or a weapon scenario is something you need. Conor Mcgregor sucked in mma. Then he learned bjj, many don't know but he is a brown belt. So it is dangous to grapple to him.
Depends on how it's watered down. I'd argue boxing is a watered down martial art but it works. All boxers practice is foot work and 4 strikes. A lot better than someone who only uses techniques they've practiced once.
18:40 Agree that Filipino martial arts (which is a very broad term) mostly got it down when it comes to stick dueling and knife dueling because they actually spar and go all out and pressure test it. Knife vs knife is cool. Stick vs stick is cool. When they actually free spar it's cool but when they start doing "demonstrations" and "disarms" and start incorporating aikido, krav maga, and wing chun style grabs, wrist flips, and transitions it quickly devolves into mcdojo tier nonsense.
I have had someone disarm me from stick play in Kali class, it was my teacher and he using wing chun looking arm blocks, and Aikido looking simple locks
Rubber knife is not real pressure testing though. Maybe they are cool in the gym, but that dosen't mean if their life were actually on the line they could perforn it.
Filipino's wouldn't teach it if it didn't work. They teach a weapon focused grappling/disarming. Wrestling teaches unarmed, full body grappling. Where you control the position, the limb and then the weapon (if they have one).
Eli Knight is awesome, however I don't understand why trying to balance sport & self defense oriented training is supposed to be beneficial for either. I think it makes much more sense to just focus on one of the two to get the most out of your training time. Most people can train only a couple of times a week at best, so there is no time to waste.
I think it woud be wise if martial arts intructors seperated "street fight" from self defense. The two terms do not always mean the same thing. If you engage in a street fight you probaby have no legal grounds for self defebse.
Did I subscribe to a MARTIAL ARTS Journey or a Sporting arts journey channel? When you ask sbd for an opinion whether a martial art is self defense based or not, you ask a person who was in a real fight, preferably the one who has also trained some other ground fighting styles such as kino mutai where rules aren't necessary. You DON'T go around calling the type people who haven't seen anything else than a mat. It's logical he will defend his own choice due to the time&resources he invested in that crappy style. I would love to live in your country and offer you some judo lessons only to show you that every viable technique in bjj is in fact judo and the rest of the stuff is just plain sport. The classic BJJ "missionary" guard i.e. - we break it with a simple elbow spike on every sparring every single day only to progress to some other forms of control and that's still in the context of sport. Imagine now how this would look in a streetfight where there are blows, bites, knives while in bjj they teach you that this kind of guard is exactly what you should do when you find yourself on the back because it's ok being on a back, right? Wrong, and that's just one example of it. I've told you twice already and I tell you the 3rd time: stick with aikido. Shape it into your own (working) style or try with judo. In my opinion it is the most realistic grappling style out there. You only have to find the right instructor.
This keeps coming up for some reason but why do you people assume that a BJJ practitioner would pull guard in an altercation or be okay with being on bottom ? Any school that's worth anything incorportates takedowns and clinchwork into their program and if i get you down your face is going to be crushed in my side control while i rip your arm or elbow your face in Obviously BJJ is limited if you have no takedowns but Judo is Also limited in a lot of ways , just like boxing and pretty much every fighting style I think you people have such a problem with BJJ because BJJ has the claim of being "the best martial art ever" and it hurts your ego It is not the greatest martial art ever (none of them are) but it is extremely effective just like judo and boxing etc There is plenty of evidence showing all these styles working just fine in a self defense situation you just need to stop your Dick waving and admit that you dont know everything To be an effective fighter you need some training in a bit of everything end of story Oh and btw trying to break someones guard with and elbow stab is a first day white belt mistake, you try that on anyone who's been doing BJJ for more than 6 months theyll have you in a triangle in 2 seconds
@@lorenzovasta6331 seriously? Did you even watch Gracie vs judukas match? Not only could bjj guys do sh1t while being deliberately on their backs, they've lost all those matches proving that judo will always be a step higher compared to bjj. That said there's no way you could do a takedown or submission on me. In a grappling situation I would be the one executing throws and countering your attempts in ways you don't even know. Don't get me wrong. Bjj is a great thing for kids to roll and play on the mats. As for the fighters... let's be honest here. If bjj was a serious martial art, it would be an olimpic sport. Well, it's not.
every single martial art is watter down, fact, that's why your supposed to learn them together if you want to fight. im seriously iritiated by everyone saying "well this is watered down" all they are talking about it a few techniques that are banned but are just a small part or included in other martial arts, if bjj lacks striking, also do some muai thai, does not have enough take downs? go do judo or wrestling aswell. and if you complain that its too much work to do all at once, that's the fucking point, splitting up fighting into these differnt categories so their easyer to learn
Sorry man, “pressure testing” isn’t an automatic “out”, meaning it’s isn’t automatically true that a technique that can’t be pressure tested is garbage, nor is it true that pressure testing results in optimal technique. Optimal technique is based on physics and hard training. Pressure testing is just one common sense test to determine if something is on the right track. Ballistics testing is another. There are more.
Truth about BJJ ? It's useless if you fight more than one person, it's useless if the other guy has any type of weapon, it's useless if the other guy can bite or eye gauge. It's one of the three apex of martial arts because it fits a 1v1 sport format, period.
I think people need to realise that sport martial arts like BJJ, is not the best thing to train in if you wanna learn self defense. You should spend most of your time training in a dedicated self defense system, like Krav Maga or similar, and maybe use sport martial arts as a supplement. That's also assuming you're allowed to integrate those skills into your self-defense classes.
This is why you need to take a striking art with BJJ. I recently started training in BJJ but I've been training in both boxing and Muay Thai for the last four years
Number one thing watering down BJJ - not standing up when you’re on bottom. It’s considered rude to stand up and reengage but that is exactly what you would do for self defense.
@Aryan Toon Case in point today in no-gi. I’m in a butt scoot position, the attacker is standing, I’ve got a collar tie. I’m stand every single time there, it shouldn’t even be a question. No leg locks, no X guard, nothing. Stand up, stand up with an ankle pick, or arm drag to the back if they squash you. IRL that dude is going to be kneeing you right in the face, not trying to pass your guard.
yeah that phrase basically sums up the entire conversation, u can teach sport jiujitsu and still learn to defend yourself properly, in the street 1 takedown is all it takes especially if ur an experienced grappler, its philosophy of application and understanding the rules of engagement, and like the dude said, with some fundamental boxing skills + experienced grappling is a dangerous person, slip a punch into a clinch and take em down, game over for them
Great interview. He’s very intelligent. I think competition isn’t the main “reason” for watering down of MA styles, it’s when instructors only focus on winning. And teaching only those things. Vs. a comprehensive combat art with pressure testing. But truthfully it’s hard, REALLY pressure testing fighting techniques means jumping your student outside in the parking lot. Lol, so there has to be a “sort of pressure test”
I feel like there really should be something like airsoft but with a deathmatch system with limited number of soft weapons found in the environment copy to fight in and a tracker to sense that they have been attacked. Don't know how that's gonna be applied though but seems doable enough.It solves pressure testing but probably creates many problems.
It's fair to say that the goal of the ufc was to promote bjj and make money from bjj classes. Which it was marketed as the ultimate martial art. They succeeded and now there's many people training bjj but the more people train it the more watered down it needs to be. It would be great to see what survives from bjj when striking is involved be the only things taught in bjj. Then to see if it was still popular to train in. Pressure testing for effectiveness vs effectiveness of it being a good business are very different
"It would be great to see what survives from bjj when striking is involved be the only things taught in bjj. Then to see if it was still popular to train in." - Ever heard of Rickson Gracie? Watch some of his matches. You can also watch Vale Tudo as well to see bjj vs essentially no rules (except eye gouge biting and groin strikes, but you won't find them anywhere and if they were included then the person with the better position would make more use of them (the grappler)). You can also watch combat jiu jitsu to see some basic strikes mixed with bjj. Or simply watch the ufc... which is striking + bjj (and wrestling, which no gi jiu jitsu uses a lot of now days anyway).
@@asharedo come on, that's not an independent uninterested party. Just look at the ufc, bjj is nothing like as powerful as it was there. Because of wrestling and people knowing just enough defence. Question things don't get taking in by the hype of being part of a group. Bjj is good but it's not the god tier thing people making money from it, tell you it is. Watch the video with bill Wallace and Oliver emkamp to see how bjj set the original ufc up to favour them.
@@southtxguitarist8926 Not to mention that the one guy Royce was bigger than was Minoki Ichihara, a very experienced full-contact / mixed rules Diadojyuku karate fighter with many knockouts. Ichihara had a very good chance against the rest of the field of 16 at UFC 2 and his draw of Royce in the first round was likely so Royce would be fresh and have the best chance of beating him. To your other point, if someone wanted to make a combat sambo vs BJJ argument I’m all for it. In 1993 it’s very possible if not likely that Khabib’s uncle, World Sambo Champion of 1992 Nurmagomed Nurmagomedov, would have beaten the ever loving snot out of Royce Gracie. He wasn’t invited though, and that’s probably why.
@@jazztec4255 bjj were designed to vale tudo tournaments. Where you have 4-6 fights in one night with no time limit. Of course it won't be as effective if there is no point of reducing damage and play it safe. And if the game restarts in every 5 minutes, so you have no time for a submisson. Wrestling is so relevant because you only have time to get the takedown after 3 minutes and hold the person down to 2 minutes. Also if bjj dosen't work bc everybody learns bjj defense wich itself is bjj... then bjj is relevant
BJJ Axiom: All fights end up on the ground. That Axiom is false. Besides. These are other martial arts that are fully pressure tested: Wrestling, Boxing, Kick-boxing (as an umbrella term) and Judo. I'm sure there are more.
I don’t think it’s that sport/competition waters arts down. Quite the contrary, I find sport based/competition arts tend to be MORE effective than non-sport/non-competitive arts. The problem is not that sport waters down the martial art. The problem is when the SPORT ITSELF becomes watered down! When there are too many rules, too specific of rules, too much safety gear or too many restrictions. That is when the art starts to become watered down. For example, Judo becoming sportive made judo great. It’s what made judo able to defeat traditional jj in those old challenge matches. The sport of judo becoming too restrictive and too specific is what is hurting judo.
@Martial Arts Journey Watering down happens because of our life style. Think about it. 100-150 years ago (the heyday or karate and kung fu) most people were active, outdoors. We did most of our stuff physically. And physically is a HUGE part of martial arts. No master was a whimpy little dude.. O-sensei, Funakochi, the dude from Kyokushin, the master or Muay Thai, boxers. 90% were built like atheletes or even tanks. So of COURSE the inventor of your own Aikido or karate or whatever did not even consider cardio and strength.. they had it by default. My great grandfather lived 102 years, all his life out in the farm. At 95 (yes, ninety five) he could arm wrestle me down. I was 18 at the time, 1.88 m with 5 years martial arts at that point. His arms were simply concrete like. He could 100% block a roundhouse just with a forearm if we ever would try martial arts. So the tehniques that we consider today outlandish, or low success, takes a lot of time, speed etc.. were not that outlandish.
Self Defense is good if you are a security guard like in the old days, like the Daito Ryu teaching. They will teach many possibilities in every aspect of self defense as a retainer not a fighter. You have a full week of training without having to work to get money. But in modern days, almost all martial arts are watered down for safety reason. Judo and BJJ was harsh back then, they can fight toe to toe with all other martial arts.
Most people do it for recreation and Often cannot afford to go home with many injuries related to work. Same with the teachers who teach their art as a hobby next to their job.
"Every martial art ever has been watered down." This seems like a really important realization to have as a starting point. As he said some have stood the test of time better than others... so that is really what we are assessing
"I don't know if there is a martial art, in our lifetime, that is more centred around pressure testing". That's a big call that I'm sure a few boxers and judoka might argue
Judo and wrestling maybe but boxing is not centered around it as much i would argue. Sparring in boxing can have/has more consequences and is therefore done less often. Going 100% without hurting eachother is a great advantage grappling has.
i mean you cant have more than bjj. every class you roll. im sure wrestling also do that every training session and im not sure about judo but i do know boxing does nowhere near as much real sparring as bjj or wrestling
@@liverpoollfc1247 yes, there is hard sparring at most boxing gyms on a regular basis. The point you are missing is that boxing sparring even at 70% more closely resembles a real fight than anything you will encounter in BJJ. No one in bjj is trying to hurt you, the point of the 'tap' is that you get to exit the confrontation when it becomes too much. Theres no tapping in boxing.
“Self defense” is a myth and misnomer. All I care about is grappling, I’m not disillusioned to think I’m the end all be all fighter. Im not dumb enough that from a defensive perspective, I think bjj garantees me safety when reality isn’t that simple. HOWEVER, it is possible that bjj gives me an edge in context. The fact that bjj is represented in mma protects the legacy of bjj
I have practiced both Bjj with Alliance Jiu-Jitsu and Gracie Jiu-Jitsu in a CTC which is like night and day. Of course, this is only my experience, I started with BJJ and there was like "only the strongest survive". the first couple of months it was like being thrown into the ocean. I learned to swim just by watching others do so. After a couple of years, I had to move and started in a CTC under a blue belt as Instructor. And now I understand jiu Jitsu better than ever before. The small details that I used to notice by chance now are explained in class and the fact that we have a curriculum that makes sense and you know what you are learning is awesome. So for me, BJJ and GJJ is like comparing Tae Kwon do to Kyokushin karate they looks kind of similar from the outside but in reality, they are very different. PS: I'm not bashing on Alliance Jiu-Jitsu or my teacher there who is a Black belt and very successful in the competition aspect of BJJ.
@Ricardo O It depends on what you are looking for. When I was younger I liked the competition aspect of BJJ. but now I trying to remain healthy and GJJ is better for a long-term jiu-jitsu practitioner. also is more focused y self-defense. Judo is great and doesn't matter what anybody said if you throw someone on their head to the ground that's game over, but also potentially murder. My advice go to the free classes they probably offer and compare. If the place and the people click with you and you like it there. who cares what they teach the important is to train. Later you can always change your mind and go to someplace new.
@Ricardo O It's always good to ask the people who go there what they teach and how's it like. Look for what they post on social media and stuff like that. But like I said you can always go to another place. Just look for what feels right for you.
@The Tide Rises first of all, the only reason It's called BJJ is because Rorion Gracie foolishly asked for money for using his family name. And the non-Gracie students just start their new schools and called it Brazilian Jiu jitsu. Second, personally and can't care less what you found insufferable and pretentious I don't know you and maybe you are just projecting. And third, you are right cross-training is great but unless you are a law enforcer or a similar job, focus only on self-defence is not that way. You will train all your life for a situation that could never happen, that will not last long. and most self-defence only school are full of BS.
The BJJ schools that only teach self defense have not evolved over the years at all.. and are super outdated ... I put my money on a sports jujitsu guy tapping out a self defense jiu jitsu guy any day
Both are needed...only that the there is no boasting value to self defence..self defence just gets too boring on its own that's the problem as it has no sporting value so cannot impress your friends with it.
Wouldn't the judo strategy be a good Street fight strategy? Slam them on the ground rather than get slammed, slap on a joint lock or strangulation if necessary to finish the fight....... fights are rarely on mats, right?
Self defense, realistic self defense can be taught in less then a year. Only a small part about that is about 1 on 1 fighting. After that the return on investment training a martial art for self defense is very low, as the change of having to deal with a skilled fighter and you even being able to translate your skills to “the streets” vs encountering a bunch of 14 year olds with guns or knifes surprising you is much lower. The change of getting in a street fight is extremely low to begin with and you better focus on avoiding those kind of situations. So after 1 year of self defense you do a martial sport for health, fun etc and there is nothing wrong with that. Also training for sport makes you stronger, teaches you to deal with pressure and pain, fight through hard situations, etc. I just think that super obsessing over infinite possible self defense scenarios is a waste of time, but if you like to do it, that’s ok of course. But you can train that for 20 years and still be stabbed in the back in a night club (I say this as a former door man).
I’m going to have to disagree with your premise. Can you learn self defense in one year? Maybe. It's a difficult question to answer because of the different variables involved. First question. How do you define self defense? Second question. What techniques/methods are you training? You can definitely gain a lot of value from training “self defense” for one year. But are you telling me training Jiu Jitsu with self defense in mind for more than one year doesn’t have benefits? I’d argue someone who trains Gracie Jiu Jitsu/Self Defense for several years is going to be better prepared for a real life altercation vs someone who only trained one year. All things being equal. I think it’s important for me to define Gracie Jiu Jitsu/Self Defense. From my perspective it’s the fundamentals Gracie Jiu Jitsu techniques, Takedowns, and applying Gracie Jiu Jitsu with the possibility of strikes or weapons. As for pressure and pain, fighting through hard situations. If you’re actually training LIVE those qualities still apply to Gracie Jiu Jitsu/Self Defense. I train at a Rickson affiliate. We train Rickson’s style of Jiu Jitsu. It’s focused of honing the fundamentals. We train takedowns. Some classes we train with strikes or weapons. We roll live every class. We even have separate classes for those that want to compete. The fundamentals are the underlying foundation we use in every situation. Lastly, we’re creatures of habit. Could you learn some Gracie Jiu Jitsu/Self Defense for one year and then focus the rest of years on the mat training sport style Jiu Jitsu? Sure you could. I think it’s important to remember in altercation which involve elevated stress we revert mostly to our subconscious habits. If you spent the majority of your time training jiu jitsu without considering something like strikes you’ll revert to those habits. It’s why you see so many high level Jiu Jitsu guys that go to MMA having a hard time. Even legends like Demian Maia and Roger Gracie said they really had to revamp their jiu jitsu for MMA.
@The Tide Rises The year should be spend mostly on reading situations, teach conflict avoidance, explain when to escape and how to escape certain situations, teach how to de-escalate situations, teach how to stay calm and not panic, etc. The net result of that out-weights training BJJ for let's say 5 years. I even take back my 1 year statement. That can be taught in months, followed up with a once a month refresher. I have trained martial arts for almost 40 years, since I was 8 (Judo, Kykoshin, Thai Boxing, MMA, BJJ and even a bit Aikido out of curiosity). Nowadays I mostly do BJJ and I absolutely love it. I've also been a doorman in my twenties. IMHO self defense based in martial arts is severely overrated and knowledge about the subject is poisoned by Hollywood action flics. The scenario you train for is 99% of the time for 1 on 1 unarmed combat, which is just not the most common scenario by far. Then secondly, and I speak from experience, when you get in a real fight for life and dead, when adrenaline is pumping, most people are not able to translate their training into this real fight. They freeze up. You feel like you are punching under water, you start throwing hay makers for some reason. People that watch these videos, including me, love martial arts. I really love it myself. But I have no illusions that the time spend in any of these martial arts has significant return of investment when it comes to self defense. That doesn't mean it is a bad thing to spend 5x a week training. That doesn't mean that doing sports and competition is stupid. It just means that self defense is not the main motivator for doing martial arts. I have 3 daughters that do BJJ. My main motivators for them to do BJJ were: 1. physical fitness, 2. able to escape when someone grabs them, 3. to have fun. I have taught them a bit of striking myself, but I have no illusions that a strike from a 50 kg girl vs a 100 kg man is almost always pointless. I have taught/teach them about the dangers of the world, what situations to avoid. To run in case of danger, etc.
I'll be first to admit I have my biases. I'm a proponent of learning Gracie Jiu Jitsu (the Self Defense Art). I think it's important to learn the fundamentals well, learn takedowns, and how to apply jiu jitsu with strikes involved. I'm not at all against competition. Even though my school is focused on Self Defense, those who wish to compete can attend separate competition classes. Rickson, Kron, and Roger have proven you can use the basics honed to an elite level and succeed in competition. I liken my Jiu Jitsu to my firearms training. I enjoy trying out different weapons. But my daily carry handgun is the one I use and train with the most. It's my bread and butter. I think it's also important to recognize that in moments of stress like a physical altercation, we revert to mostly subconscious movement patterns. If you don’t train with the awareness of strikes on the mat, how will your subconscious mind know how to react in a high stress violent confrontation?
You should have a talk with Dr. Rhadi Ferguson, one of the most intellectual scholars in all kinds of physical education I have ever heard, very overlooked but knows so much about judo and bjj, also did a few MMA matches. Recently did an interview with Chadi and has some other interviews on youtube
Great conversation one common factor I heard was about wrestling, takedowns and throws being key. Which is great, basically every country has its own form of native wrestling or grappling system so it makes sense. Even with karate, as mentioned, has grappling as part of its origins, is Okinawan it's called tegumi, and when that was combined with Chinese systems we got karate.
This comments section is filled with deluded people who’ve never trained a year in their life and completely misinterpreted this video. He’s talking honestly about certain limitations, not denying the proven fact that bjj is one of the most integral aspects of fighting in any context, street, self defence, gym, cage, or otherwise. But one should also train striking to be a well rounded fighter, obviously
Great talks! Sports also seams to forget that they have eyes, balls, necks, throats that can be broke on the ground game, they can be bitten a fight. Not much of that is accounted on the bjj-mats that I've been in.
I am brazilian and on the end of 70s and beginning of 80s I practiced shotokan karate and judo in Rio de Janeiro. Gracie jiu-jitsu academy is from Rio and very famous on that time because the made a lot of trouble with others and sometime the police itself. Why I didnt do jiu-jitsu. One because the national more recognized competions were judo and shotokan. Only a minority on that time from what i know was trainning these martial arts for commercial fights as boxe. Every body was thinking to go to a olimpic game
Such as getting kicked in the nuts while lying with your legs apart. It's the same problem with every martial art. Obviously you can't spar/fight kicking eachother in the between the legs. But in a real fight this can be a real weakness if you automatically leave that area unguarded.
@@katokianimation That depends on what you train for . My point is that every sport creates more and more limitations. Judo became an Olympic sport and abandoned groundwork Now Jiujitsu trough it's popularity in MMA ,starts ignoring weaknesses outside the rules. Lying on the ground with your legs apart is purely a result of the competition side. That doesn't mean there aren't solutions within the style , it's just ignored as the sport progresses.
Martial arts get watered down because a martial artist wants to apply their training but doesn’t want to run around starting street fights the risk to permanent damage is too high. So we create rules to prevent injury and then people find ways to build a meta game for the new rule set changing the martial art.
I've always been of the opinion that the first 6 months of learning BJJ is the self defense aspect. Everything after 6 months youre using to beat another BJJ player in a competition setting only.
I disagree, everything you learn year after year is continually enhancing your ability to beat anyone in any setting. Your skill level continues to enhance, it’s never ending, having a basic knowledge of practical techniques and having drilled them a few times over six months is just touching the surface, the more you drill and spar the better you get at implementing your techniques effectively and the more options are in your arsenal to defeat someone with increasing ease
On the "striking is suplementary" it can go both ways... How good of a grappler do you have to be to control the drunk guy who swings at you? In my opinion... Look for a well rounded style, complement whatever you feel you are lacking... Goju ryu has irikumi go tournaments, wich look like amateur mma in a gi... Kudo has tournaments that look like pro mma on a gi... Sipalki has changed its rules many times, but the rules right now are similar to pro hapkido, having strikes, throws, submissions and grojnd and pound... Funny enough, many submissions and throws used in sipalki are forbiden in bjj and judo... Im right now practicing both sipalki and bujinkan, because they complement each other quite well... But im thinking about taking some bjj classes to complement the ground game(for now im just doing shoulder cranks, elbow locks and wristlocks from bujinkan in sipalki fights, but i want more submissions and ground defenses...) For self defense, i never needed even half of anything i ever did in tournaments... And doing things like in a tournament would be dangerous...
26:59 He's not wrong about karate originally being a grappling martial art. Once I got to brown belt level in traditional okinawan Goju Ryu karate, I realized that the modern sport is incredibly far removed from the original self defense idea. Old style karate is predominantly close and clinch range and you're looking to either nail the guy right away or get a hold of something, take them to the ground and neutralize them there. The strikes tie into the arm drags, throws, trips etc. and vice versa.
The lack of respect and bro-culture in BJJ annoys me far more than the traditional mindset of the original martial arts. The latter builds character, the former makes assholes.
@@davida.rosales6025 David - I'm with you on that. I had to stop going to BJJ because I couldn't stand the whole "Bro culture", everyone saying it every few mins as though they were from Brazil. It drove me insane and I found it embarrassing . I wish there could just be a "healthy balance"
Eli Knight seems to be a genuinely good guy. Not only does he sell his instructionals but he puts out a great deal of free content on RU-vid. Thank you Eli.
I think it's more than just pressure testing. If you look at arts like Taekwondo which often fail at effective self defense but pressure test a lot in frequent sparring, it shows that there is another element to it that separates BJJ and boxing from arts like Taekwondo. This is the type of pressure testing, and that is pressure testing that addresses high percentile threats. Taekwondo deals so much with the threat of the kicking but doesn't address dealing with the jab, whereas BJJ by having takedowns at least has a solid solution to put the fight in a place your opponent cannot use his best weapons
BJJ is the best complement for any art.. BUT in a street fight you will have problems if you go to the floor and there are more than 1 opponent, especially if theyre armed, but the point is that you dont have to reach that point in a first glance, the fact that you reach at this point is a problem itself, fight should end before going to that point.. and if that happens, then bjj comes into a action
Train against a new, tough and aggressive white belt. That’s gonna show how good you are at self defense, if you can control this guy who is wild and uncontrolled.
Rokas, another interesting and informative video on martial arts, thanks! A quick comment: in your discussion of responding to a knife attack, has anyone provided the idea of using available articles of clothing in dealing with the attack? (such as wrapping a coat around one of your arms or using a belt - preferably with a heavy buckle - to swing at the attacker). Just a thought…
I think self defense is two edged sword. On the other hand it teaches you to see situations to be more aware but also to consider de escalation as a tool instead of violence. On the other hand it might teach you a false sense of control and security over the escalated violence that in reality is just playing lottery with your health.
I think BJJ is great in this moment and that it has not too many rules it make it perfect for getting average skills, Rokas you should try Combat Sambo which I think was one of the MMA martial arts before UFC 1 - it has a lot of practicability from Judo, Boxing, Karate, Kick Box and for one vs. one combat I consider to be very practically - do not forget head but which is allowed and change quite a lot the game.
the one flaw I always found in bjj was the over hyping it by alot of the students as the best martial art ever bc it was so dominant in ufc. I always question what happens when you try to do bjj on a concrete sidewalk or gravel parking lot? what do you do if the person attacking you doesnt get taken down and now stands over you with a weapon? how do you handle more than one person?
1. Hard surface sucks to the bjj practitioner but it will be a killer to the normie. Imagine somebody sitting on your hip while you are kneeling on concrete then sweep your back flat on the ground while they are using all of their weight on you. Also there are videos on youtube. The same thing happen. If you can get used to cross face and knee on belly, doing a shoulder stand on hard surface isn't such a big deal though. 2. Kick his nuts. But i don't really know how a failed takedown will bring me to the ground laying while the orher one is standing over me. 3. I try to get the fuck out and if somebody tries to holding me back i get them off me.
I really appreciate the honesty. I teach. I've been involved in martial arts since the 1950's and I'm still involved and learning and teaching now as I turn 70 y.o.. I also wrestled for 10 years into college. I've done some brutal full contact fighting as well back in the day. And I never stop learning. I've been in (too) "many" genuine self defense situations, the last time should have been deadly if it weren't for my training and adjustments of that training to handle such, knives were pulled on me and I was alone. I can tell you know what you are talking about, especially when you say things like " context", "honesty", "pressure testing", and that a wrestler can do quite well if a few strikes and/or submissions are added. This is true in most cases, as it was for me growing up. But wrestling skills, though I think the world of them, aren't so good for multiple attackers or weapons, as you pointed out with BJJ. This was a very good, honest, quality, interview with a person having a real clue. I would add that there is no "best" martial art for self defense and there is no best martial art for any singular thing. It's really down to the individual, what he/she learns that works for themselves, of course the teachers, schools, and partners matter a great deal. Martial arts can be "bad" if the school/teacher/environment gives a false sense of confidence against genuine attack. I also think too much faked strikes and such leads to additional risks. I have learned a way to safely deliver truly impactful bare knuckle strikes and it's genuinely moved self defense training to another level. But like you say, if the teaching is honest... I really appreciate your adding a knife, gun, or other attackers to pressure test the skills, is really important. In my own training, it always assumes those challenges. That tremendously changes how we move, what we do, how we handle situations in our training. I have greatly adjusted my martial arts movements and techniques and now train with that difference. Coming from Judo in my childhood and wrestling into college, I highly respect BJJ. BJJ or wrestling or Judo have built in pressure testing. A person will never know themselves until they are out alone on the mat with a "gorilla" trying his best to submit or really hurt him/her. Then step it up and try against two, three or more. It gets interesting. In addition to what I teach, I've also added Suffian Silat which does really well empty hand vs blade. One idea that may have been missed when discussing respect, is that the Japanese highly treasured humility. This was passed on to my by my father who began training in Japanese Judo / Jiu Jitu in the post war 1940's. BJJ roots are also from the Japanese. Respectfully, George Borrelli, Crystal River, Florida
Just because someone's a grown man doesn't mean they have respect or know to respect everyone in the gym (not just the Sensei). I have a more balanced view, and believe that Dojo's shouldn't have a culty, worship structure to the sensei, but a little bowing to your Sensei, when stepping onto the mats, when sparring with your partner always reminds you (and especially egotistical or arrogant men which there are many of) that you're not above someone else, that you can learn from anyone, and that the people around you are of value.
I studied Okinawan Goju Ryu from age 9 to age 30 (had end it on account of leaving my country)…. And yes it has many elements of powerful and practical applications but there some that are just a waste of time. Like with Kata, I get that it’s like a rehearsal of all the movements and their expressive functions….but no dojo !! should concentrate on that for too long. Your fighting will suck. This is why my club mostly did fighting and always winning. Why? Because we concentrated very little on Kata and mostly on randori (sparring). Our katas were still really high standard when 2 of my teachers went to grade (and train) directly with Higaonna himself and him saying their katas were exactly the standard they are teaching, he gave them an approval nod. They came back from the trip with a big smile, proudly saying we have a damn good standard of goju Ryu. Sanchin stance was another thing I’d get rid of. I get it…you want to root yourself to the ground like a tree’s roots. But as a fighter, you’re supposed to be always changing your stance, eliminate your pattern of movement, but light/hard on your feet. The agiuke block - no one uses. The chudo uke block no one uses. The agi-uke block - definitely no one ever uses. Those blocks are so impractical. No the ko-kay black (the chicken head block) that’s a really good block. The only one that works really. Why not dodge your head out the way like the boxers do. Anyway - I love Goju Ryu, but I’d eliminate a lot! of movements, and only keep those that actually do work.
Pressure testing ? If your a person who gets overwhelmed easily you will never pressure test anything . The Jits is ok, for that only being my true defense nah not at all . You better be able to have x ray vision . Or pad them down . Who in their right mind wants to go into a wrestling for self defense is just stupid !!!! If it was a complete system you would not have to cross train with something else . My opinion if a BJJ came across a well trained Kali practitoner sorry I'm putting my money on the Kali person . But how many BJJ trained fighter's are out there attacking people ? Well a real martail artist in any art attacking anyone is slim or none . Well this is changing as well . Look at most MMA practitioner's you have street thugs in it now . And if someone needs BJJ against a drunk person lol lol . But why ? The longer I look at these so called martail art's most can be put in the garbage unless it's just for sport's minded people . I know MMA =JACK OF ALL TRADES BUT MASTERD NOTHING !
Eli's approach to self defense in BJJ is identical to how we do it in Army Combatives (which evolved from Gracies and Matt Larson in mid 90s and early 2000s). Great stuff, especially about the light slaps to fine tune the BJJ
Royce Gracie had zero wrestling terrible striking.. look at him and his brother fights in Japan royler trying to pull guard in ma MMA fight .. genki sudo smashed him sakuraba snapped his arm.. Royce lost to judoka yoshida and sakuraba.. I went to a Royce Gracie seminar I'd never trained bjj.. a only judo and sambo.. but my judo instructor was high level and had lived in Japan for years and trained kosen judo which is heavily nea waza based every Thursday all wee would do for 2 hours was neawaza aka ground work would .. learn a couple of techniques sweeps submission then. Just roll for a hour pick a partner and roll.. he used to have crazy guards for a judo coach he used to use a kinda spider guard style for sweeps.. and he always played open guard never closed.. his legs worked like arms .. he had been to the junior Olympics his dad was a coral belt so he grew up in a gi training and traveling the world ..but I'm sure a injury made him train kosen judo while in Japan but his nea waza was high level.. my mate done bjj I met him at sambo class he wanted to improve is wrestling or takedowns.. wee went to a Royce Gracie seminar and wee learned basic collar chokes from the mount .. then he said if you have been training bjj for over 6 months you can roll I thought I'm not going to sit and watch.. so I rolled 3 whitebelts at first I'd been training judo for over 4 years and some sambo.. but no bjj.. the 3 whitebelts I tapped.. then Royce put me against a blue belt.. not going to lie I never tapped him .. but passed his guard had him in side control mount but he made sure he wasn't getting tapped and years of learning to keep my opponents pinned I had a strong base and good sweeps but still had to improve on my submissions and getting better at tapping people .. but after the roll Royce started standing people up giving them belts he then stood me up and gave me a blue belt.. I felt embarrassed and also standing next to him.. I was thinking I thought he was supposed to be this small guy he was 6ft or 6ft1 I was thinking that's not small I took the blue belt said thanks years later I did start training bjj at a MMA gym with a Brazilian two of his students are now in the UFC and his 2 stripe white belts or blue belts were killers one of his blue belts won in belator triangled a high level bjj brown belt a Gracie brown belt.. after that he got his purple and the other bigger guy who I remember when he was a whitebelt is in the UFC now.. submitting people.. but look at MMA Marcelo Garcia royler Gracie Roger Gracie Andre galvo kron Gracie Gary tonon.. the list goes on all great at bjj legends but at actually fighting in a cage.. then you have the guys with a wrestling base.. mark Kerr mark Coleman sakuraba Josh Barnett Jon Jones DC khabib Fedor and I could keep going ..but the bjj legends where they start on there knees in training.. Marcelo Garcia some say the best ever fought MMA once got smashed by some Asian guy.. Andre galvo.. amazing at bjj but met Tyrone Woodley a wrestler and got smashed.. but if it wasn't a fight and just bjj galvo would have won .. bjj is fun but even Royce royler Gracie they weren't great at MMA
I disagree about your comment on pressure testing. To me BJJ didn't have enough pressure and was sssssssssssssssuper laid back when I was training. Now Judo on the other hand... that was PURE PRESSURE
44:35 starts the reasons why BJJ culture is the way that it is. They do not have a philosophy that shapes their training and there is not a unified approach to training via a curriculum that most everyone agrees on, unlike Judo or Aikido. That stems from not caring about their Japanese lineage. Everything is Carlos Gracie this or Helio Gracie that. It's so selfish and arrogant, and it makes me nauseated even to type it out. The only thing the Gracies ever cared about was money grabbing and upleveling their social status. Their students who became instructors are the same way. If they can get 80 people on the mat, they'll do it and the next time they try to get 85 or 90, quality of instruction and attention to students be damned. As a new student, you are not entitled to be taught no matter how much you pay or are charged. You should absolutely be respectful and deferential to the instructor and everyone else who has put their time in at the school. You being there as a new person reduces the time the instructor can spend with the existing students, which sucks for the existing students, obviously. Take the mental notes and think about it over the next few classes. You're seeing a snapshot and it might take a while for the picture to fully form. The instructor does not have to let you be a student regardless as to how you feel about your inability to defend yourself. It's a privilege and honor to have someone who has dedicated an untold number of hours to share their knowledge and experience with you. The generations of the past knew that. If the instructor wants to run their school more traditionally and be strict, so be it. If you don't like it, leave. You don't get to complain about that, ever.
My professor is Klay Pittman (6th degree under Carlos Machado.) I've heard him comment that MMA is watering down BJJ. Considering his background which includes training two of his students all the way up to the UFC (both won their first fight, and then Pittman walked away from it), I figure he would know. We spar every session. If you don't sweat, you don't advance. That includes white belts. Part of our training is the blue belts and up, regularly have one person put on boxing gloves and lay into their training partner who is required to take them down and submit them. I love it.
Knives arensctually dangerous way before younget to grappling distance... Knives can do more than just stab... Other thsn that, i agree with most what was said about that
Sparring in jiu-jitsu with a training knife is a huge wake up call. You lose a lot of your techniques because you can still get fataly stabbed. Kali was another good example to throw out there. Training and learning how techniques are supposed to work is difficult when most of them are done with weapons.
Rokas: thank you so much for this video. My main martial art is Goju-ryu Karate and I've been wanting to cross train BJJ for a while. This week, I've decided I'm going to do it and this video was fantastic. Eli: thank you for knowing your stuff! As someone who's been to bullshit karate dojos and fallen in love with Goju-ryu (and researched a ton) I again thank you for understanding what true original Okinawan Karate was (and is in some cases) about: grappling!
I did Judo for 20 years, we lived too far to compete in tournaments, so our training was self-defense-focused. We had many BJJ walk-ins that wanted to learn standing techniques. After working with them I was always impressed with their groundwork, it was excellent exercise. But...that's all it was, exercise. It's actually pretty easy to just stand back up, especially if it was from a self-defense perspective, it's easy to jam your fingers into eyes, crush balls, break noses, bite, etc. After 20 years I realized BJJ is modified wrestling, and is only a martial art if you consider wrestling as a martial art. Is it good to learn? Yes, it's fun, and probably the best low-impact cardio-strength workout you can get. Would it be a good martial art to learn if you suddenly find yourself in a back alley fight? No, you would die.
This is a key point. The answer to all this is to just stand back up and always fight for top. Watered down BJJ makes someone too comfortable in grappling situations where their opponent would be pinning them and raining down strikes. Solution: stand up, insist on top position, and either work a kesa gatame / kata gatame pin type of game where the attacker never regains control and can’t stand up without giving their back- or GTFO off the ground. One thing people sleep on BJJ for though is grip fighting, specifically the collar. It only takes ten hours or so of training for a decent blue belt to become dangerous with t shirt and hoodie strangles, and even sport BJJ can make controlling position with collar grip on untrained people viable.
@@haircutdeluxe I think about the point you made all the time. The point you made about being comfortable in certain spots in training that would be dangerous in real life.
But doesn't aikido have atemi waza? kaiten nage includes a knee strike to the opponent's face. It's the training approach. I'll comment then leave it-jet setting in and out of styles is a snapshot-both of the style and of the teacher.
i do karate and did japanese jujitsu along with kick bocing and bjj, i guess i have been lucky but the tradiional schools ive been to have been fairly laid back, they still bow in and stuff but its not like regimental or anything and they arnt strict with calling them sensei or anything, prehaps its because they where adult only classes, or they are an exception
