The TRUTH about the 40k + Amazon series 

I think you’re overlooking a somewhat botched advertising for Dredd. It wasn’t heavily promoted, nor made clear it was a reboot and not a latter day sequel to the Stallone one. It also somewhat suffered from its rating, being R in the US, and 18 in the UK, inherently limiting its audience at a time when most comic book adaptations were distinctly family friendly.

IMO the Eisenhorn/Inquisitor angle seems to make the most sense, as they could build a set of very human characters to view the world from, and include Space Marines as more of an ongoing / lurking threat (with plenty of scary action sequences to reinforce this), never having to stay with them, narriatively speaking. I mean it's rare for inquisitors to walk away unscathed (or breathing) from being sent to snoop around dark angels or space wolves, for example. So theres drama enough in that idea alone, let alone chaos or xenos threats

Anyways, as for 40K being unadaptable? I disagree. But I will concede it’s a tricky adaptation. In a setting where the special forces are post human ubermensch armed with weapons of terror, you’re going to hit any certification board’s limit on gore pretty quickly. After all, Bolters and Chainswords don’t exactly do flesh wounds, and are favoured precisely because of that. Yet leading with Marines would be a mistake, because they’re not the most interesting thing about 40K by a long shot. Instead, go macro. Zoom right in. Let us follow a newly adopted Inquisitorial Acolyte, recruited like Zemelda in the Cain novels from among the plebs, by simple expedient of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. They then act as the audience proxy. The mere human finding out the terrors of the night aren’t only real, but more numerous than you could ever conceive. Keep piercing the veil, introducing ever harsher methods used to ultimately protect humanity from threats, including itself. Be brave. Be bold. Sure give our proxy plot armour, but have friends and colleagues killed and replaced throughout, show us how they themselves eventually replace their Inquisitorial Master/Mistress in due course, having become a necessarily cold and heartless killer.

Astartes worked so well because the space marines were mute.

I would love to see a rogue trader based series, a rag tag band of misfits exploring an interesting but dangerous universe. Or maybe I just want another season of Firefly.

Bold of you to assume anyone at Amazon has either the ability or desire to make a good television show.

I laughed out loud at that "It would have a very dark ending" cut to the Blanche skeleton nailed up on the HERETIC sign. Love your stuff man.

tbh I feel like there's theoretically a shockingly good sit com set in the 40k universe.

Here's the solution: make a gotrek and felix series, but just for me

Interpersonal conflict: A Commissar and a Regimental commander who are both too well known for the other to think they can get away with shooting. Fish out of water: Agriworld has to pay it's tithe so a bunch of farmhands get put through basic guard training and thrown into a centuries long stalemate conflict on a deathworld. Space Marines: Henry Cavill has already answered that one "have them be cool from a distance" IE don't make them the main characters.

That's not a heavy bolter! That's an assault cannon!

I would add to the comments of the show being unapproachable, like Pariah Nexus, but I've shown Astartes to a lot of people and I've found that those 'questions' did not put people off at all. In fact they got very excited about the universe and came to ask me all about it. Those questions are hooks that get people invested in the characters and the world. Why does that Sister want to kill children? That makes her mysterious and intriguing. What is that mysterious man kneeling in front of the orb and why does he go insane? I don't think that unexplained questions are a bad thing as long as the show slowly trickles out answers. That's actually really good writing.

You actually could do a SM show. But you'd need to make them Deathwatch as they have diverse attitudes, and they do have interpersonal conflict.

11:13 What on earth are you talking about? We have entire books written from a space marines point of view.

Honestly this pretty much reinforces my belief on why Eisenhorn: Xenos would be the best story to adapt: Interpersonal conflict: Something I think you undersell to make out to be impossible and maybe is for the rank and file, but it's done very well in the Eisenhorn series, inquisitors and their retinue are given special privileges over the average imperial peon, you can actually have interpersonal conflict without someone having their head shattered by a bolter round a second later. Fish out of water: That's basically what Bequin is, an average imperial woman who suddenly has a run in with an inquisitor, is discovered to have a power that makes her special and is taken from her everyday life on an adventure that takes her across the galaxy. Space Marines: Xenos features two types, chaos space marines of the emperor's children and the elite deathwatch chapter, and the important part is they're used sparingly. I firmly believe seeing live action space marines is something that will keep people hooked and watching until it happens, so not blowing their load in the first few episodes to get people invested will be important. Cavill has already indicated he wants to use them carefully which is why I think we're more likely to get a "domestic imperium" centred story like Eisenhorn (who Cavill has also indicated in the past he would like to play) rather than starting an adaptation of the horus heresy.

Convinced the way to do a space marine thing is the same as Dredd tried to interpret the comics as "Dredd gets called in to sort a tower block, and then he does" like its plucked from a random weekly strip, do a skirmish like you're making a film from an actual game of 40k, and maybe make it Deathwatch so you can get multiple characters of different vibes interacting with conflicting with each other

I think the big question is this - do we *want* extremely niche films/stories to have broad appeal to a wider audience? Or do we just want stuff that we can appreciate but somehow be financially feasible for them to keep making? I think this has less to do about faithful adaptations, and more to do with spreading fandom (a cult) enough that the IP can be self sustaining - once you have enough people that understand your fandom, you can just peddle garbage and the fans will endlessly defend it whether the product is good or not. GW/amazon is banking on enough people out there knowing what a space marine is and having the devoted explain every nook and crany to grandma in an endless sea of nerdery that eventually its "goodness" will be unquestionably - the same reason marvel essentially ruined cinema. tl;dr Gw doesnt need to make good content, it just needs to reach a certain tipping point of fans knowing what space marines are and let them do the work for you.

I have a question. Why would we even want the mass social acceptance of our hobby? No seriously; I understand why the companies involved would want it but I already like 40K, what is the actual upside to me personally of more people liking it? It seems like it involves a massive risk of something I like being ruined with little actual benefit.

It all depends on how it is adapted. A live action anthology series could work well. This way you get bite sized bits of 40k that are resolved by the end of the episode. Each episode could focus on different factions. Alternatively, make it more like AHS with each season being its own storyline. Rogue Trader would be perfect as it could follow a Rogue traders crew on their various adventures. The crew composition can be diverse perhaps with the odd xenos allowing for tension etc. It all comes down to what you choose to do with the material and which faction you choose to follow. There are things suited to a 20 minute episode in an hour long anthology and there are stories that will work as a single mini series or film.

Make it in familiar vain as 300. Bombastic, ridiculously over the top, dead serious. Like a hard rated R Bollywood. Imagine US Marines recruitment ads done with 40k property and for movie duration and lot of gore.

One key thing you're missing is that the generally-agreed best 40k novel series - Eisenhorn, Gaunt's Ghosts etc - are written by a man who is a professional tv scriptwriter, and Abnett has specifically developed an episodic, crescendo-focused writing style which is perfectly suited for tv. He's also written Marines with actual personalities and interesting stories (Iron Snakes, the various marines in the aforementioned series). He's also used them sparingly - making them look impressive, and scary, and special, but not over-exposed. Abnett has also included a healthy dose of comedy in all of his books, including in Space Marine scenarios. Really, all your concerns are directly addressed by the bloke who has already produced several years worth of direct-to-screen material of the highest quality. Also, "Kaddians"? 😂

I disagree, the lore is deep enough to find ways around these problems. It’s the lack of creativity at Amazon that will kill it, not the inflexibility of the setting.

Honestly this video feels like it was written 5 years ago. Most young people now are at least somewhat familiar with Warhammer through video games and RU-vid, major streamers talk about Games Workshop and during Covid GW was the fastest growing stock option in the UK. I think a lot of older fans are really struggling to grasp that Warhammer already is mainstream now, or at least is not the niche hobby it was when we were growing up.

It's pronounced Bouquet

In my opinion they should make the show about the "main" character a new recruit in the imperial guard. More down to earth/more human. At some point our recruit crosses paths with a spacemarine.

It has to be Eisenhorn. Henry has to play our favorite Inquisitor. Maybe they will elaborate on Gregor's upbringing, maybe he was a farmboy like Luke before he was discovered to have psychic powers.

The upside of 40k is the richness of the lore. The difficulty is that it relies so heavily on trompe-l'œil style writing - words and descriptions which give an incredible sense of scale and atmosphere in the mind's eye, but being very difficult to actually put onto film. This has lead to most film depictions of 40k being extremely underwhelming and even the better ones feel like they are constantly struggling against their inability to depict the full scale of the scene.

GUILLIMAN. Yes, Henry as the UltraMarine Primarch Roboute Guilliman. Guilliman, who is the most humane and logical of all. Whose empire-within-an-empire sparkles as jewels of sanity in an insane universe. Guilliman, who exists in both 30k and 40k, whose character can have flashbacks to the very foundations of everything and everyone, yes, including the big E. Guilliman, the father of the blue posterchildren of the franchise. Guilliman, resurrected into the time of the great rift, the Cicatrix Maledictum, who must be brought up to speed to the current state of the galaxy (and the audience is learning everything with him). Guilliman, who then single handedly cleans up corruption of Holy Terra itself. Through Roboute's eyes we see the ridiculous politics of the Imperium in an organic way, and immediately watch him clean up. Change. Guilliman, who then leads a new holy crusade across the stars, that bring us right to where we're at chronologically. Is he your favorite? No, of course not. But I mean seriously, name a better candidate.

The new Dredd movie failure can also be contributed to THE GIANT "3D" in there at time people were sick of 3D cinema. Because of it most people just thought in was another low budget cash grab. That is what I thought when it was released.

Everyone says Eisenhorn, but I reckon Cavill would make a perfect Ciaphas Cain.

Probably need to start with an emperial guard story. They'd be most relatable, and you could have successes with them, but they could also get crushed whenever it's most convenient.

If they are sensible they would *not* copy any of the books. The answer to a good movie in the 40k series is to create a whole new story, designed for the big screen, with their own characters, independent of the Imperil system somewhat. I am, of course, talking about a Rogue Trader series that follows a mix-group of individuals and their Sacred Warrant. The character that we follow could even be from an agri-world, made important by plot and spirited away by some noble family, growing into the role of a Rogue Trader themselves. Hit's every box that way, would it not? And, best of all... you need only one Space Marine!

The series should be about a human bwing selected for training to join the Salamanders. Struggles, growth, different scenarios, emotional capability, stakes.

Tbh I think you are underestimating the size of the "nerd" audience. This is not 10 or 20 years ago where you'd need forty year old football loving Gary who used to bully people who read books at school or sixty five year old Joan who doesn't understand what CGI is to have a successful TV series/movie. We're in the shadow of Super Hero & Sci-fi films being the most viewed type of movie for at least a decade now after a point where they were just constant flops at the box office. I agree that the people who expect something like the Horus Heresy to be made into a TV series, expect ultra-gore or want nothing but lore accurate constant massive battles are going to be disappointed but I think there are numerous ways that 40k can be adapted to be relatable. Ciaphas Cain is actually a good example of a character that should be a chain sword wielding zealot but in reality is actually a more human character acting contrary to the stereotype. It really is just down to the hands of the people making it to get the balance right and market it to the correct audience. For the weirder stuff that the puritans will demand the obvious solution is to do a series of short animated films like the Love,Death and Robots series offering brief glimpses through the window into the various 40k settings. That way you don't need to bother with the "Space Marine praying problem" or "how do you explain Drukhari in an animation" you just show them doing what they do and present enough background noise to keep it interesting. A lot of people like Astartes because it managed just that and in reality when looked at objectively it is a fan movie level of story telling due to limited resources.

Well, you are forgetting the film on RU-vid "Armageddon" I think it's perfect. It was my first 40k experience and I found it intriguing enough to get into the lore.

Space Marines are boring? I present you the Night Lords trilogy. The characters in that have depth and dark humour. Granted, visually, it would be flayed skin everywhere.

Get Paul Verhoeven on board as director; 40k and its satirical routes should be right up his street - just look at Robocop and Starship Troopers.

Space Marines would make a pretty good Deus Ex Machina. Imagine the series focused on some lowly imperial citizen, trying to survive on some awful industrial planet, and it gets invaded by . The series focuses on this planet's resistance through the eyes of a normal citizen who is pressed into the planetary militia against unspeakable horrors, and everyone's questioning the Emperor's Word and wondering when His Angels will arrive to save them all. You can have interpersonal scenes quite easily, with some cool battle scenes where the militia and Imperial Guard are fighting a heroic yet futile planetary defence (again seen through the eyes of our protagonist), maybe the Sororitas show up on occasion, and the inquisition maybe. But then at some moment where all hope is lost for our protagonist, a squad of astartes show up to kick ass and chew bubblegum. They don't even need to be characters - just voiceless, faceless killing machines that we see only through a second-person point of view. You get the human-scale characters with all that comes with (inter-personal struggle, character progression, etc.), you get the epic 40k theme of endless war, you get the hopelessness of the setting, you have room for fan service, and you get the power-fantasy bad-assness of marines without having to make them characters in their own right.

An inquisitorial coterie (a la the 54mm Inquisitor game, or Dark Heresy) is probably the best way to go about it. You can then have The Space Marine, The Space Nun, The Guardsman, The Tech-Priest and any other 40k specific thing you wanted to showcase. Have them show up to a world and have to deal with local politics to investigate whatever's going on: genestealer cults, chaos cults, archeotech, whatever. I'm now picturing an Ordo Hereticus rocking up to a hive world thats suspected to have genestealers, flanked by his entourage of the Marine, the Battlesister, the Tech-Priest and the Eldar

You lack the vision and could not read between the lines. The timing couldnt be more "right" for a 40k show. People crave for BASED shows atm, look at how a mid tier show like Reacher has achieved on amazon, the same goes for 40k. you should retitle the video "My personal POV on the Truth", the only truth i see here is you personal opinion, which is totally ridiculus and missleading in my opinion

"In the modern 40k setting, there is almost no interpersonal conflict to base the story around" Man learns of 40k, makes a video a week later to cash in on the trend.

Mate, was pissing myself, laughing, as I watched this excellent video. If you ever want to switch streams, you've got a career ahead of you in comedy. Seriously, bloody funny review of things. Well done. Loved it.

Fifteen Hours would make the PERFECT starting point for adaption.

To be be fair most of the individually named space marine characters are incredibly well written

Tbh, I think the most difficult thing to get right is the tone. It's good that Henry seems to be a true fan, but they can make something that is absolutely accurate to the source material and still (or because of it) be absolutely unwatchable. It should be Paul Verhoeven's WH40K but I'm afraid what we'll get is Zack Snyders (or any other like-minded hack) WH40K. The setting is inherently ridiculous and lets be honest, a huge amount of Black Library stuff is very mediocre and quite often just plain bad. You could absolutely make an brilliant series out of the material, but I'm very skeptical that they'll have someone who is visionary enough to pull it off. Actually, your video reminded me of someone who'd be a great choice for showrunner - Armando Iannucci! That'd I'd pay to see.

pariah nexus shows that the internal conflict excists and can show nuance of character even amongst space marines. Make a 90 min show like that and we have success.

The board game origin is completely fucking irrelevant imo. It’s just a setting where you can pretty make whatever you want in. Want to make a war show? You can do that. Want to make strange a detective noir series? Sure. Want to make a movie about space pirates or ancient aliens? Go ahead. It’s up to the producers to match the budget the to the demographics they want to hit. They don’t have to hit every average person as implied in the video. Maybe they will target male sci fi lovers age 16-45, I don’t know, I don’t work in marketing. All I know if they want to focus on it having sprung from a tabletop game, then that’s just a waste of time.

I think the major issue is that Amazon has shown that it is really really bad doing adaptations of fantasy and it is just going to do the same despite having an actual fan nominally in control.

Just remind one thing that could make it easy: The "regular" Imperial Citizen has no idea about Necrons, Eldars, Orks or Tyranids. Only some have heared that these Xenos exist but have never seen one. And he doesn´t know how they look or what they do. The Chances for him to meet a Space Marine or anybody else who is important is low, too. So it would be easy to bring a viewer into the universe by starting from such a point of view. Lots and lots of possibilities! That´s also a good start for new Charakters in the Warhammer 40k-Pen&Paper Game "Dark Heresy". Every Character is new in the Job he just started. The whole Universe unfolds right in front of his eyes - and he realizes with every part of it, how Grim Dark it really is.

I have been touched by pain and agony. i will foretell the future: It's going to be mid at best. No, worse. It'll be comparable to the Halo series, it will be just as true to that lore as this will be. They will do so to 'appeal to the general audience.' If you hold a love for the hobby, and watch the show, you may regurgitate your skeleton, who will flee promptly. Leaving your soul and flesh staring as the series continues for several more minutes before death can finally get through your pain-field you've created. But not even your death will cleanse the memories. Your god of choice will have to cut away that part of your soul, to grant you rest.

Okay you say that Pariah Nexus is unapproachable, but it's not. I had a coworker, who knows nothing about 40K beyond the fact that I'm into it, watch it and love it and ask me all about it.

maybe the narrator should have a more than glancing look at the lore of WH40K... as his ramblings show, that he did not understand a lot of the background lore from the books...

Pariah Nexus is good...compared to 90% of the alternatives. I read the positive reaction as a "yes, this is in the right direction now do a proper length one" sort of thing. Agreed that the setup and payoff happens way too abruptly but you can see a world where it's done in a satisfying way and the superfans will fill in those blanks automatically. Or I'm wrong and stupid, one of the two.

I agree I’m not sure that a 40k show will have mass appeal but I think there’s a significant number of viewers that would make it profitable like the Dune films have proven.

What if they do the film/series from the perspective of a guardsman so u can get character development and add a space marine towards the end as a saviour or boss fight

Dredd with karl urban was fantastic imo.

I think you forget what it is like to first experience a good story I first became a 40k fan after watching the "Helsreach" fan animation. Knew nothing about the lore prior to watching it. Still found it absolutely compelling, even though the finer details of what was going on were lost on me, at the time. Good fiction will draw people in whether they are familiar with the background or not. The problem is Amazon studios probably cannot write or produce something as good as "Helsreach".

how do you put a servitor on screen, or a penitent engine?

I would have Henry Cavill as an Imperial Guard Officer/Comander. That way he can be attached to the planet where most events are set. Would allow him to interact with Imperial Guards, Civilians, Threatening Space Marine Librarians. Would allow him to suspect choatic coruption and be suspected of coruption. Second half of the series his Army Comand is comanded to investigate something on another planet. There are huge loses and at this point the army is reduced to about a 1500 points 40K army with a Psyker and posh imperial Knight Armiger pilot, one or a couple of marines seperated from their own unit, maybe a tech priest. Adventures ensue. Agree Marines as the central caracters would be a strugle for a series, but when thay become both very dangerous and absolutly needed asset they could be plot gold.

The best BL books aren’t about space marines and the best space marine books are focused on single squads/war bands. ADB is the 🐐 of character development and dialogue.

Honestly, it kinda hard to make a show or movie about the Space Marine in a "serious way" and even if it was serious, sooner or later their depiction will end up being "hammed up" that unintentionally become comical due to the massive explosion gore and bullets, sorta similar to the parody flash movie "Space King". But then again, Warhammer 40k originally started out as a "Satire" to the 80's macho culture where it intentionally being "Over the top". I think if there is a 40k TV series, the Space Marine should just appear as Cameo characters or once in a while appear fighting alongside with the IG. In Warhammer lore, humans seeing a Space Marine is usually a chance of 1 out of 1000.

A good 40k movie would not be 'about 40k.' it would tell an interesting story with characters we care about that takes place in the 40k setting. And if it's leveraging the IP well, it'll highlight some of what makes the 40k setting delightful and awesome -- and intersect this awesomeness with the characters. A good example is the movie Godzilla Minus One. It's a simple story with human characters we care about, and it takes place in a world where Godzilla is making a mess.

Ooh, I saw that manowar at the start

I am worried that "they" will try and change the 40k verse. "but why cant we have a female whos brothers are all selected to become Space marines fight her way up to prove herself and become the saviour of her homeworld... ughhhh

I do think it's possible to make some kind of mix between a homage to the hyper violent movement of films in the 90s and some kind of oppressive ambient sci-fi, while still not bombing the viewer with parts of setting they don't need to know for that story. Though i doubt it's what GW or Amazon would be wanting to make.

Making a space marine entertaining isn't as hard as you're making it out. There's about to be a lot of text here to present my thoughts. Bare with me a sec if you care. The description of them basically sitting around praying, and reading scripture misses the nuance of their day to day which is different from chapter to chapter. They don't sit in a locker in-between these times. Space marines are by lore very intelligent and like any intelligent being need mental stimulation. The blood angels and the space wolves are pretty damn verbose lively and energetic off the battlefield. The space wolves have Viking party's for thrones sake. These two are not an acceptation to the norm either. Every chapter has their own thing they do, and successor chapters tend to expand and adapt onto it while keeping to core traditions. Mind you that's just looking at them in a bubble you present. There are plenty of organizations that fill the need for people outside their group to turn up, including marines form other chapters. That's where driving the narrative comes into play. Go with the space wolves. Bad ass fierce lads on the battlefield with werewolf mutants, drinking literal poison to get drunk after a well fought victory, but what's this? Inquisitors accompanied by a dark angel marine who's currently on loan to the inquisition, or currently in the death watch and set on loan to this inquisitor if you want to make it more complex. What strange story with suddenly interlocking conflicts are now coming into play? Why is the inquisitor here? These are not hard narratives to drive. I came up with that on the spot in five seconds and it likely shows, but that is already a good display of the marines that makes them anything but boring, and all it took was taking them out of the bubble because there's a galaxy outside marines that they do have to interact with and even marine chapters have to interact with each other, and no two chapters think nor act the same. Even with this example the majority of the cast I've mentioned are marines and it still gives it everything you seemed to think was missing. Even so it assumes marines are the main focus, and if they are not this is a good chunk to give the viewer a glimpse without them coming off as bland. Mind you fan writers and animators have been doing this consistently on youtube while staying for the most reasonable part pretty spot on to lore constraints. Mind you this isn't fangirling for the marines. I play tyranids.

I find it hilarious that you think Amazon will put this much thought into it. They'll just put black people and lesbians in it and call it a day.

Oh I'm very worried about this GW/Amazon project, but for some reasons in addition to yours. 1) GW are already stripping away the depth and gameplay of 40K. 10th is by far the least granular edition so far. Some of these changes, like the weapon profiles containing ballistic skill, the abilities interactions, and the way the keywords work now are great! But the rest...? It feels like it's appealing to too broad of an audience. Trying to please everybody, while pleasing nobody. The stories, art, and models are also becoming more sanitised to match. The streaming show will reinforce that. People often comment that the new Dredd failed partially because it was rated 18/M. Well so was Predator, Alien, RoboCop, and The Terminator. But everybody wants 12A films for kids to watch. Not everything has to be for kids! 2) There _is_ an easy way to make the show accessible without compromising the integrity of it. Stop making the Space Marines be the good guys. They were never the good guys. Nobody is! But there are some very light shades of grey. Why not have a character follow the path to Chaos? Do like an form of BoJack Horseman where they see the evils of the world around them, but also the good, and becoming more and more self aware of how shitty their actions are. But why stop there? Where's our "Day in the life of..." series? I wanna see an Ork get into a bloody fight over some stolen teef! I want to see Votann fighting hard to stop the T'au from taking their resources! Why won't this happen? Why does _everything_ have to be just for a new audience? 3) The Rings of Power. You all remember how awful it was. I'm worried it's going to happen again. 4) Amazon may just straight up buy GW. They have a history of it. I will literally sell my miniatures if they do. 5) The show will be wildly different from the current game, but be a huge short-term success. You'll see merch everywhere. Then everybody gets bored. In the meantime, the game, the lore; it all changes to meet the expectations made by the show. People like to mock others who hate change, but the thing is _I like the hobby as it is._ It is my hobby for exactly that reason. It's how I like to enjoy myself, and if it changes, I won't like it any more. Now my hobby is gone because it was turned into a hobby for other people. This has already happened to me twice before, but most notably video games. Video games used to be complete, single items, which I could play offline, whenever I want, however I want, and I owned it forever. But they've changed into a pipeline for gambling addicts. Even DLC is filled with the FOMO and "I'm sure _this_ expansion will finally be good!" type of stuff that stopped me enjoying games. Retro games aren't just popular because of nostalgia. They're just better games. Warhammer is becoming that way too.

Don't fear, my tea drinking brothers, your bloodthirsty American siblings will make our wives watch the show, and LIKE it. (Mine loved Witcher cause of Henry Cavill so if he's in it...lmao) I think a Rogue Trader show would allow for the humanity and character growth. The recent game is an awesome framework, showing how it can be done. Also, Space Marines should not be female.

What you've said makes me think the best idea for a story for to start the 40k Series is Armageddon. There's character growth as Commissar Yarik goes from a political officer riding out his retirement on a world were nothing ever happens to quasi divine military and political genius saving the world. Drama as the Orks invade and the planetary governor betrays the world. And corporate mandated Space Marines saving the day represented by the Blood Angels both ruining the Orks at the beginning of battle and the masterful deep strike gambit into Gazkul's rear that broke the Waaagh!!! and caused the big green monster to go away for a little while. It even has comedy in the form of gretchin running around and blowing themselves up. And you show off whatever factions you want in the background: Titan Legions, Skitarii, every different type of Ork, Leagues of Votan in the form of the Squats of Golgatha, Space Marines, maybe even hint at some Chaos Space Marines or Demons on Armageddon (though why you would think they'd be there I have no idea). Armageddon, who know's there'll be a sequel.

I dread Amazon's attempt at making a show of Warhammer 40K. Doubt they will understand, much less get it. It's NOT a happy or heroic fantasy Lord Of The Rings type thing (and Amazon already has people upset with them on LOR anyway.) LOL - Space Marines save a small village from the forces of Chaos. Then as the people thank them, the people (every man, woman and child,) are seized and sent to be turned into parts for the space marines (hard to get good human parts.) Those that remain are turned into servitors. Yeah, don't think Amazon would do a series with something like that.

Honestly ciaphus cain would i think be the best mass start point. Its got comedy, stories that are great gateway points to the universe, good cast of characters, a likable hero (whose more known inspiration "Black Adder" has a good following),has character development, has a wide range of stories you could do with him on a season by season basis. Other then that , honestly adapt dawn of war 1 or 2 as a gateway, you could do a a lot to expand it into a one or more stories. DoW did a great job getting people who didn't know much about the universe and introducing it to it and i think a big screen version could do. Its got action, intrigue, plotting, interpersonal conflicts , Gabriel Angelos would make a great central character from whose point we see everything unfold , it would introduce viewers to some of the key factions and the universe gradually as the story develops like the game did.

90% of problems are solved by having the show be animated or CGI, and the rest by focusing on, well, something human based. Inquisitors are a brilliant source. Or a series that introduces us to the world via an Arbites who beings by investigating a minor crime, and then it turns out to be a Demon of Genestealer cult. Or hell a new Guardsman who is introduced to the real world for the first time. And frankly I heartily disagree with your view on the marines. Just, the Space Wolf books go very different. Or hell just adapt the story of the Space Marine game.

The argument that "Space Marines cannot be relatable" is stupid IMO since we have characters like Garviel Loken, Saul Tarvitz, Alexis Pollux, Barnabas Dantioch, Sigismund, Grimaldus, Pedro Kantor, Logan Grimnar, Ragnar Blackmane etc... Hell there are 63 books about Space Marines and they are literally just written like they were normal people (personality wise) in between the action scenes.

Anyone help me out with that Stallone Dredd posed GW mini, what is it, can I still get it?

Mate you absolutely dropped the ball at the second half. Everything you described that is lacking (imterpersonal relationships and character growth) is present in the goddamn random ass book i'm reading😂. I agree with the space marine problem though. I would implement them like Darth Vader in Rogue One. Terrifying as both a foe and ally.

On the subject of Space Marines, you claim that they can be boring and have little to no character development - of course for the average Marine you'd be right however, I assume we will not be following the average Marine as we never tend to in the books. The best example I can give of an interesting, character driven Space Marine is Kharn - yes, Kharn, the guy from the World Eaters who is meant to be a bloodthirsty murder machine. When we first meet Kharn in the Horus Heresy we pick up on a few things 1) he is practical, hence why he is captain 2) he develops a deep bond with a Space Marine from another Legion Argel Tal 3) He does not agree with his Primarch on the direction the Legion is going and tries his very best to keep his Primarch and the rest of the Legion from killing each other. Through Kharn's story we see him slowly devolve into that murderous killing machine thanks to the Butchers Nails as he starts to realize that Angron, although insane, is his Primarch. Now he has to make the choice of obeying his Primarch even though Kharn knows Angron is mentally not sound or go against the Primarch, free his fellow brothers and further be branded as traitors. Kharn on the surface is a simple character but when you dive into his story you realize that he is a tragic character that lost his closest friend, felt helpless in saving his Legion from the tyranny of Angron and didn't want the fate he ended up with. You CAN write a deep Space Marine character without having them go against how things are supposed to be. 40K is a series that emphasizes that dark realism of the heroes not always winning, the good guy doesn't always remain good or even make it out alive and that's what it's about. It's not about heroes fighting back against some evil and conquering it and I feel like that's what's going to grasp new people. Take Super Hero shows and films for example, everyone was sick and tired of Marvel's joke slinging heroes that never really lost anything. Compare that to something like Invincible and The Boys and you realize that people kind of enjoy watching people beat the shit out of each other with super powers. I think now is the best time for a 40k film/series so long as they don't shoot for a plot that's too big.

I think you are thinking to big. There is no way they can encompass 40k in the first show. Gotta start small, Ciaphas Cain with Amberly Vail with a Xenos threat and close with the DeathWatch bailing them out. One example. Even a show about a squad of IG allows for character building a big bad and a save. Too many new series try to put too much exposition about the world.

Proper use of Ambiguity, knowing when to not explain something, is the quarter stone of great story telling. Look at any IP with an expansive universe such as the star-wars movie line; It's the things that haven't been told by the writer, that is left to your interpretation that invokes newcomers and fans alike into further inquiry to the franchise. Even in the example of Luke sky-walker, or a fish out of water scenario, George calmed to leave left things intentionally out of scope, so to be fleshed out later or explained in a another medium, like the jump between phantom menace and the clone wars. I say this because, in modern media, creatives have this idea that everything has to be streamlined, over explained, neutered or changed and augmented, in order for it to get mass audience appeal. absolutely afraid of taking risk, missing the fact that the IPs they inspire to, like Game of thrones, lord of the rings, and Star wars, besides the story plot queues, did very little explanation of the universe they inhabit. If you're like me, and was a star wars fan back in the day, Like star-wars was as nerdy as it comes. though a large following, it was still niche to the general world. 40k show doesn't need comedic relief, need to be sanitized, or stripped it's identity, because that's not what 40k represents. It's a grim dark future, where there is only war. What this does is only bring a division between the fan-base, like Cinematic marvel fans to Comic book marvel fans, where your new fans will want something radically different than what the original IP stood for, hindering sales in the long run has you fight between two different standards. And that isn't to say there can't be conflict/character growth with a marine cast. I think some the most intriguing writing I've read from this IP held from the banter between space marine squadmates; then when you look towards chapters like the Lamenters, Blood angels, salamanders, and space wolves, where their greater humanistic traits could be used to tell more emotional stories. 40k has a lot going for it, because like starwars before, 40k has a massive universe, with a massive timeline, and factions to mess around with. They can take various perspectives of plot lines told in pre-existing works, make up a story between to key conflicts, or even make a completely new conflict, important or unimportant to the major story line. The last two being literally what the clone wars the animated series accomplished. The moral of what literally befalls every franchise today, like starwars, is the producers and writers going against the identity of the franchise to cater to "A modern audience" instead of focusing on that made them popular, and catering to their fan-base. And from what I heard from interviews, Henry Cavil knows this. I know I typed a lot, bear with me, but this is something I'm rather passionate about. 40k is the first in long time to have the rare, unicorn, once in a generation opportunity of being a massive pre-existing IP that could become the next golden age star-wars Goliath, with every-other major franchise being a shell of themselves, figuratively, literally, and even statistically. Now is the time strike, and take that mantel.

A lot of your arguments are not unsolvable: 1. Don't make a space marine the primary protagonist. Have them as supporting characters, or enemies 2. Inter-personal conflict - easily done. Inquisitors have rivalries and differing interpretations of their missions that don't necessarily devolve into war and execution. Rogue Traders have rival dynasties trying to muscle in on their contracts. Hive gangs have conflict between gangs and within gangs. 3. Introducing outsiders through the everyman, fish out of water protagonist - easy, have your main character be from a backwater world embroiled in the aforementioned shenanigans of a rogue trader or inquisitor

The spacemarine and approachability-problem is why i think it will be forcused around the imperial guard. They are fan favorites for the one that are already into warhammer, they can be human with human problems, the average guardsmen nows pretty much nothing about xenos or chaos, and so it would be a nice way to bring the viewer closer to those topics, and everybody can understand 'Dictatorial regime and soldiers being treaded like cannonfooder" relatively quickly.

I think most of your cocerns could be adressed personally. Title the series " Warhammer 40k Rogue trader" make the main character a human ganger or hab worker who's never left his hive and dreams of seeing the stars. Have them stumble across some member of a Rogue trader's crew become embroiled and forced to leave. They find themselves on a ship filled with a cast of colourful characters led by a charismatic captain played by Mr Cavill. Keep the Space marines out of it as the near mythological figures they would be, maybe introduce one in the finale as a Blacksheild or Deathwatch member brought in by the Rougue trader as back up. Watch the main character's naivety get eroded as they encounter the various threats the 40k has to offer. Not saying that's what they'd do... P.s. yes it's basically 'Firefly' or 'Farscape' but 40k.

I showed my girlriend and her mother the 'Helsreach' movie and they both loved it. In fact my gf asked if we could watch it again. If these normies could appreciate it I'm sure it could work. The appeal was precisely that it was completely unlike Star Wars, which was what they were expecting when I said it was a sci-fi war movie.

how to introduce normies to 40K: 1- show Event Horizon 2- they now understand the basis for the Warp. -fast forward 40000 years, to a trench war scenario

It's not that Warhammer is unadaptable, it's that Amazon is not capable of adapting it. Berserk is both one of my favorite manga publications, and one of the best anime adaptations ever made. I thought before the anime aired that it would be impossible to adapt, but I was proved wrong. It worked because those adapting it struck the difficult balance between taking everything that made the manga great, and what makes an anime series great. They knew what would translate from paper to a screen, and concentrated on only changing things to improve that translation. However, with Amazon I have no faith they will do that. They will take the opposite approach. They will instead create a TV series they like, and then plaster Warhammer all over it hoping that it will attract Warhammer fans. Warhammer does have adaptation potential, but I cannot see any large media corporation today that would do it justice. It's not Warhammer's fault, it's the current state of mass media's fault.

I like the cgi series of blood angels, I would happily watch some more of that, honestly anything can be done with the setting , maybe have the tv show grab the most important bits of the lore and modifiy anything that does not bode well for a series, this if done properly can work out

I don't see these problems manifesting thanks to the show. GW is already far from lore accuracy, declaring how dire the situation of the Imperium (millions of worlds) is and how high the risks are every time a new conflict concerning a few thousand planets arises. Amazon is making a habit of burning money on projects their algorithm deems to be successful. Thanks to fanmade media and lore channels the audience is probably large enough to pressure normies into liking the show. It really depends only on the execution now.

Please please please no space marines, no warp, no xenos. Imperial guard, putting down a rebellion on a hive world, leadership turns out to be a genestealers cult. Season 2 introduces aliens via Tyranids and Space Marines via Deathwatch. Give non-fans a way to understand the world. This must be accessible or it will be a flop.

dredd didn't perform more poorly than judge dredd because of any of the reasons you mentioned, it was a combination of very poor advertising (which was, ironically, very highliy publicised after the fact) and a much reduced public interest in, and recognition of, the judge dredd character. also, comparing stallone with henry cavill in terms of the involvement of a big name film star isn't as simple as you imply: whereas stallone was just doing another acting job in judge dredd, cavill is a creative consultant as well as an actor on the 40k project and he is ridiculously passionate about the setting; he's said numerous times that he wants to "do it right" and that will probably include some pretty hard lobbying to gw (and possibly amazon) to achieve this, and he's also said he considers it the greatest honour of his career to even be involved, which is a pretty major thing to say. not to mention, if it doesn't go how he wants he'll just leave (remember the witcher?) and then the project will lose its guiding hand and star attraction at the same time. as far as the setting being "unadaptable" that's patently false, they said that about the lord of the rings and look what happened there. you could also argue that something like the marvel comics universe is dauntingly expansive but again, they've done pretty damned well there. you don't need to adapt everything all at once, you could focus on any of a great number of different races, places, even time periods (horus heresy?) rather than trying to do some grand adaptation of the entire history of the grimdark galaxy, and if anything that gives it longevity because you could have multiple films & series that cover different areas. a horus heresy series, an indomitus series, series focusing on specific alien races or astartes chapters, gaunt's ghosts, eisenhorn, the list is endless. anyway, bit bold to be so pessimistic about a project in its infancy then call it "the truth". i fundamentally disagree with you, i think there's much more to be positive about than negative. worst case scenario, it doesn't happen or it's bad, in which case you don't have to watch it

Most of 40k is unadaptable, anyone with an ounce of media literacy can see that, but there are story that can be told. Imperial guard doing anologues of relatable war stories or monster in the jungle horror would work well, as would alot of the noir coded warhammer crime stories. Eisenhorn is less adaptable than people think but is at least comprehensible. Then space marines come along and at one end of lore accuracy you have R rated transformers with exactly the same amount of relatable story as the last few films and at the other end you have marvel superheros in big, unwealdy armour; both are bad and audiences are burnt out on them. The best way to do an intro 40k show would be the guard. Canonically most never see space marines, orks, tyranids. They can tell stories about the horrors of the universe, struggle fighting against chaos or genestealer cultist guard for an entire season of good world building. Before a single space marine comes in an murders everything like the Texas chainsaw massacre on fast forward. Exposing itself to the poor humans after combat with the menace of the t-rex in the original jurassic park. Sprinkle in a single tech priest with servators to fix the tanks and be a weirdo and maybe even a glance at an inquisitor talking to the general and you pose questions without being overwhelming. It's doable but it will require film makers with tact, skill, understanding of the setting and strong enough personalities to tell GW and amazon to pound sand pretty often.

Tbh it would be nice with a proper series of live action with cgi added, instead of 100% animation based video.. Especially if a story can be told this way.. :)

A Warhammer 40k show or movie focusing on space marines only would be a massive disservice to the medium as it would only capture the universe from a narrow minded pov. To grab the audience’s attention and get them immersed in the world of 40k the story needs to be told from the narrative pov of a Rogue Trader as it would help encapsulate the bigger picture better.

I feel like your problem is that you dont think 40k can pull a star wars. and yeah it cant, its is own thing and i prefer instead of looking for maximum market appeal (im not an exec at amazon i dont car about that). A 40k series should be made of what bring people to the hobby in the first place. Instead of inserting a marketable droid so people can buy it, why dont we focus on making a good adaptation that faithfully captures what the people like so much about the novels, and the animations, and games. There is a precedent, we can sell the soul of our hobby so we can talk about it with cate from accounting for the week the series hold her interest, or we can celebrate the uniqueness of it even if it isnt successful in getting that vaunted maximum market appeal, instead of a bland 40k lite we will have a cool 40 original tm.

I think darktide took a good route by exploring the 40K universe from the perspective of a bunch of reject bottom of the barrel humans. Of course the game doesn’t have much story within it but even just the voice lines and interactions get people attached to their characters and the atmosphere + art/sound direction is maybe the best in any 40k thing ever.

So space Marines have no development or character? How do we explain so many books doing just that with space Marines in a vast quantity. I think it's a creative writing stand point.

The books managed to give marine characters charisma, personality, and inner conflicts. Doubt a TV series couldn't do it

If Games Workshop is already worth 3 billion, why do you assume they need normies to watch the show at all? Who gives a shit if grandma likes warhammer, she didn't watch game of thrones either.

I think a good story following the salamanders would be good. The conflict of trying to save the people of the planet vs the over all goal of exterminating the threats to the imperium

I think WH 40k i definitely adaptable, and can get a lot if attention if done correctly. Astartes was a video series on RU-vid it didn't had a huge budget or a massive team working on it, what it had was passion and deep understanding of source material and you can see it draw a lot of attention even from people who had never heard about Warhammer. So it is adaptable as long as the right people chose to do so

I personally think this is why they need to focus on the underworld or a Rogue Trader, the interpersonal conflict would be great. Astartes should not be main characters, they are boring to read about beyond being a power fantasy.