The TRUTH about the FALCHION and MESSER, part 3: Where do they come from? 

"What is that?" "Why, It's my knifesword my good fellow!" "So is it a knife or a sword?" "Yes."

Somebody should use the Messer to make a Crocodile Dundee parody ("you call that a knife? THIS IS A KNIFE!" "THAT'S NOT A KNIFE! THAT'S A SWORD!!!" "IT'S A MESSER! AND THAT'S GERMAN FOR KNIFE! IT IS A KNIFE!")

If a Messer is a sword made like a knife, by the Knife making guild. I wonder, did the Sword making guild start making knives constructed like swords, e.g. bread knife with sword hilt.

There was once a riot from the painters and stainers guild in London because they found out the Saddler's guild were painting their own saddles. Guild were pretty protective of their property.

Village of noteven goingtotry thanks for giving my home town a shout out

You deserve more views and subscribers, you make amazingly well detailed videos.

I like those medieval laws. I think they were smarter then than people are now. Carrying any tool or weapon should be a right that can be taken or left alone with one's actions. Sword carrying should come back as a fashion statement xD

A good a video as any to ask why europe went from "all citizens must have arms" to "were THIS close to banning butter knives"

I'm not saying you're wrong, but people very much are stupid and very silly legal literalism is very much a thing. Today in Germany it's illegal to even own nunchucks (a short, blunt and very hard to use weapon) but perfectly legal to walk around in public with a loaded crossbow (deadly, precise, ranged, silent).

😂I love the terms "Swordy Sword" and "Knifey Sword"!

And now, I can't even own a telescopic baton, in Germany. I can still however carry a sword around. lol

@Shadiversity about the development... look up "Bauernwehr" (translates to farmers arm). its basically a big knife, from machete style to pointy slaughters knife without crossguard, but with a "Nagel" (or sometimes a shell). that were common farmers tools and also weapons for self defense (Hauswehr . Home guard would be another name for it) it also might be where the idea of the carrying law comes from. you quoted laws asociated with citys, but city law was very very different to "rural" law, because in cities the citizens were free and had to defend the city in times of war. while the typical farmer was not free, he was not allowed to bear arms and was in return defended by the local lord (knight, baron etc). farmer were known for using their tools as weapons if they had to, sometimes even reworked ones (war scythes or bill hooks). so they carried more easily carriable tools (like big knifes) to defend themselfes against bandits etc. and with the rise of the cities lots of farmers fled to them (because "Stadtluft macht frei" - "city air makes you free") and would carry their favorite arms with them. so it would make sense that knifemakers adapt and perfect these into more capable weapons.

I appreciate this. There are a lot of videos on RU-vid about the form and function of Medieval weaponry, but not enough about its history.

Well made video, you deserve a bigger following. Just a thought, I think you should consider upgrading your audio setup or set the levels differently or something, because other than audio I think your videos are pretty damn good.

Excellent video, I'm really looking forward to the next bit

It's quite logical, Captain. Points well made and referenced. Good vid Shad.

The number of videos where you reference your 'Single Edged vs Double Edged'. It's not a huge number of videos (that I know of) but three is still more than I'm used to.

Where's the single edge vs double edged sword video ?

Actually, I've found that the shape of the tang DOES influence the way the blade handles. A tang that closely follows or indeed "cuts the handle in half", i.e. the Messer kind of hilt, is more prone to transfer vibrations from the blade to the hand. Of course this can (and should) be ameliorated or rectified by proper edge alignment on the wielder's side and proper balance on the maker's side so the vibration nodes end up in the right places, but here's the thing: sometimes a blade breaks, and then you have to reshape it (I happen to own one that did break at some point and was reshaped) or it will look broken. However, this changed the balance of the blade. And when it comes to edge alignment, there's not really anything you can do if your opponent parries. The vibrations will transfer and your hand will suffer from it. Unless of course the tang is shaped in such a way that minimizes vibrations in the handle, i.e. a sword type tang, which is the entire reason swords and knives have different tangs to begin with!

Hey Shad, I know this is an old video but your linked video on Single vs Double Edged swords is no longer available.

7:10 to bad anyone that makes a law is not allowed to have more than 1/3 a brain. Like they banned switch blades but you can get around that with assisted open knife which are almost the exact same and the results being the same, a knife that opens fast with a simple push.

Seems to be a simple case of economic competition, supply and demand. These guilds were acting as cartels, even if they were keeping quality 'good enough' they were still cartels, keeping prices artificially high. To the extent that they may be actually lowering revenue as they could make swords at a high rate but the price was too high and they couldn't sell them quick enough. Sword guild could be seeing customers walk out the door and go to second hand market, they'd stop sword production and they couldn't sell the sword they currently had. Yet sword guild in a typical bureaucratic action won't reduce prices "we're selling so few sword each must be sold for as much as possible!" Then the sneaky Germans come along and start competing with the inflexible sword guilds "oh no, they're under cutting us!" they might think at first... except the Sword guilds would have tacitly gone along with this if enough of their members were selling blades to the knife guilds! Think about it, the sword guild members have finally found a way to make money off all the window shoppers who couldn't or wouldn't fork out for the high price that a sword-guild demanded. Even if Sword Guild was selling the blades at a much lower cost to the Knife Guild they could pump them out at such a rate they're making way more money each month. The Sword Guilds could have stopped this by agreeing to cut prices but they may just have been too afraid of unforseen consequences if they did do that. Still if someone wanted a SWORD, I mean a real sword, not just "peh, that's only a knife" they'd have to go to the Sword Guild and get a proper branded sword. That explains why this legal loophole was never closed, because it worked in enough people's favour on both sides of the divide. Probably some people might have lost out to some limited extent, like those who could make blades at a very low rate and depended on all "long bladed weapons" (Swords, messers, whatever) being sold for a high price, but most would have enjoyed the hi-lo marker. Business class and economy class. Messers were a way to get swords on the cheap, while Sword Guild kept the prestige of "swords" being expensive and high prestige items. This has happened in many places, an authorised clone is introduced that is essentially the same quality but as it's sold under a different brand the primary brand is still sold at a high price.

This upcoming episode sounds like it's going to be the most interesting of the group.

I always figured that the sword-knife thing (which I was taught as well), was about status and had little to do with self defense. Ie, while a sword is sheathed, the hilt is the only thing presented. Therefore, the more highly crafted and ornate sword hilt would be presented as a sign of wealth and rank. Kind of like a phallic signet ring.

Sounds a lot like modern market economy. Popular brands today will sell their products for a lower price, under a different brand, to cover several segments of the market without damaging their main brand.

From my experience with Viking Recreation the Seax was generally used a back up weapon if you lost your sword or ax. It was also used by holders of spears and dane axes for close defence. Maybe they fell out of favour at the end of the Viking age ?

so i'm curious, not to get off topic, but did you make that chair your sitting in or did you buy it? Me being a bit of a craftsman as well as history enthusiast i'd really like to have a closer look at that, maybe you can make a quick video showcasing that or PM some pics of it?

the biggest misconception is the idea that germany had _one_ law regarding swords/messer or was one unit of regulations. the messer originally *was* a burgher's weapon (although it was later adopted by nobles, too). burghers lived in the cities - which (usually) weren't controlled by nobles at all, but often only had to answer to their city council (consisting of burghers) and the emperor. nobels (or to be more exact: 'sword nobles') on the other hand usually lived in rural areas (or in castles surrounded by rural areas). the rural nobles couldn't just tell the urban burghers what to do and what not to do. so there was basically no way for the nobles to change the laws for the burghers in the cities. the nobles _could_ however forbid burghers to carry messer on their territories. the only one to regulate the basics of different weapons in the HRE was the emperor. and he usually didn't do that by general laws for the whole empire, but by specific privileges for specific cities, regions, princes or estates. in a broad generalization that means, he kept the nobles in line by guaranteeing them to be the only ones being allowed to carry 'real swords', whereas he kept the burghers happy by allowing them to carry messer. since the emperor needed both - the military power of the nobles (and technically the vote of the prince-electors) and the economical wealth of the burghers -, the invention of the messer as a burgher's weapon was a quite clever solution. as you said, people weren't stupid - and this is also true for the emperor who could come up with compromises between the interests of the different estates. you're right, that it's not a loop hole in 'the' law (which didn't exist anyway for the whole empire), it's just a simple compromise to keep as many (important) estates more or less happy as possible (or necessary) within the HRE - mainly from the emperor's perspective. the burghers were far from 'common'. the most 'common' social group were the peasants, who (usually) were the subjects of nobles, who could forbid their subjects to carry messer (let alone swords) entirely. in other cases they could even demand their subjects to be armed - depending on the regional necessities (such as hostilities with neighboring regions). and btw 'civilians' weren't a social group in the middle ages (in the HRE) at all. yes, there _were_ city councils that not only allowed their burghers to own messer, but demanded it. but that does *not* mean, that every non-noble in the whole empire had to own/carry a sword/messer - in fact the majority of the population of the HRE was *not* allowed to carry swords/messer for most of the time. and the 'guild-argument' unfortunately also isn't true. just take a look at this depiction of a 'messerschmied' and what types of weapons he sells: upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/05/Messerschmidt-1568.png or this heraldic sign of a 'messerschmied'-guild: bilder.afterbuy.de/images/52955/MesserschmiedMesserschleifer.jpg. these are not what you (or elmslie) defines as messer at all. and btw it (usually) wasn't possible to just switch the guild - so a sword maker couldn't just decide to become a knife maker to have more customers. it took (and in germany still takes) years of apprenticeship to become an artisan/craftsman within a _specific_ profession. and the 'real guild members' usually only were the masters of a workshop, that often inherited the workshop from their fathers (or father-in-laws in case the old master 'only' had daughters). so, the actual truth about messer (in the HRE) is ... it's fucking complicated (depending on the exact time, the exact region/city, the estate and much more). i know it's unconvenient to not have a simple answer (for fans of mediaeval times as well as academics), but that's just the nature of truth. if truth were easy to obtain, what would be the fun in trying to find it? :)

Great videos. The guild explanation makes a lot of sense. It is very likely a price and status thing as well, especially at early on. It's like modern day cars. People who can afford it want to show their status and by a mercedes, even if a decent, cheap car will do the same job, get you from a to b.

Hey Shad, I'm just dropping by to ask where i can find your sword design thingies, as they're really well made and I would like to use them as references.

Hey Shad, great video! Really looking forward to the rest of this series! I had a question, though. Earlier in this video, you state that the internet's usual answer for why messers became so popular - "because they were legally defined as knives, not swords, and thus got around arms-control laws" - was wrong, because, and I quote: "people aren't stupid". You made the case that, ultimately, legal technicalities do not matter, on the grounds that lawmakers would _know_ a messer is a sword, and the law would be changed. Yet later in this video, you get on the topic of guilds, and you state that, because messers were legally defined as knives, not swords, they got around guild-imposed economic regulations. Hang on, though! Would not the "people aren't stupid" objection, still apply here? If legal technicalities *do not* matter, then surely, guildmasters would know a messer is a sword, and the regulations would be changed. And if legal technicalities *do* matter, then there's really no problem, at least on the logical front, with our folksy notion of messers becoming popular because they skirted around arms-control laws (that is not to say they WERE popular because they got around arms-control laws - I think you did a great job with documenting and establishing the actual German arms-control laws of the period - but merely, that the logical refutation of the messers-as-legal-loopholes concept which you propose, is itself incorrect)

10:29 No I want to know what the town was called. It's always fun to hear someone try and pronounce German words/ names. Classic: Eichhörnchen (squirrel).

Great video Shad, wanna hear more...I have a couple of questions for you if you don't mind, I don't know if you answered this in another video or not, but technically speaking, what defines the difference between a knife, a dagger, and a sword. Ignoring the build of the hilt.Obviously it's the length, but at what certain length does a blade stops from being a knife and becomes a sword?For example, if I had a blade that was 10 inches long (again, ignoring what kind of hilt it has), would it be a sword or a knife?What's the difference between a knife and a dagger?We see in Ancient Greece and Rome that their swords were actually quite short compared to later medieval swords. Why is that? (Did longer swords get developed simply for the extra range? If yes then I would presume the Ancient Greeks and Romans would have discovered that logic too, yet we only see short swords in that period).

Shad where do you find the double edged vs single edge video?? 5:04 very interested in the advantages of a single blade vs double edged blade.

Anyone know if James Elmsie has a new website? The linked in this video description is no longer functioning.

Please, on the 11:24 image, who was the artist? Lovely painting , and i like that kind of architecture :)..

Axing video series! I love how well your research cut s through the nonsense surrounding these amazing blades!

Shad where is video about single and double edge?

I have another theory about why messer was so popular, but keep in mind i know very little about actual history and stuff - its just what came to my mind after watching these videos. I'm too lazy atm to edit this wall of text so sorry in advance for any inconvenience. TL;DR: I believe the reason to all of this is the price. Standart swords were expensive, messer was new and cheap, so it became very popular. You see, as you said in these videos a "swordmaker guild" essentially held a monopoly and controlled the prices, but in addition there was also legal requirement for citizens to own a sword. As a result people were trapped into having to buy a sword no matter the price. This naturally created a demand for a cheaper alternative. And this alternative came from "knifemakers" as the closest type of craftsmanship. They weren't able to make swords, but apparently nothing was stopping them from making "huge knives" - and even if it would come down to legal dispute they could stand their ground because messer was actually pretty different from regular swords with its one-edged blade, knife-like shape and riveted hilt. It basically was an enlarged knife created with knife-making technology, as such a court would most likey decide the case in favor of knife-makers - despite the fact that it was the same product the technology was different, and the guild owned the technology, not the market. As this new "big knife"-sword was cheaper(competition, remember?) a lot of people began buying it. This increased the interest in it leading more people to try it, even if they already owned a sword/swords finally creating a "fashion", attractng even more customers to this fresh new product! But sword-makers guild wasn't able to produce this new popular sword because it was "a knife"! Tech was owned by other guild and court would probably decide in favor of knife-makers(again). And as swordmakers were quickly falling out of buisness they did the only thing they could and started making blades for these "knives" to get at least some profit out of it.

The hilt construction of the Messer could have some benefits, especially if you have an environment where you have to own swords which would create a huge demand. A good and sturdy Messer hilt is easier to produce than a equivalent sword hilt. With a messer hilt, there is almost no way it could become loose. I own an old german blade, similar to a machete from length, pretty rusty and the bone grip panels are in really bad shape but its still sturdy and works perfectly. And from the construction it looks like its been made by a local smith. My paul chen training sword on the other hand is already loose after only a few hits on wood.

Good video, Shad! But it is a bit more simpler. As everyone knows, we Germans just never end our wars/fights rightly. And because we know that, we got rid of the pommel. But producing swords without pommel seemed weird (saber hilt was not yet known to us) and that's why we just used a knife hilt. It worked so we sticked to it. And our wifes got furious when we got home and put the with mud and blood dirty Messer on the fresh wiped floor. That's why we put a Nagel on it ("nails" are always ever used for putting things on walls here). It's for hanging the dirty sword onto the wall when we come home.

Interesting theory, and almost certainly correct. Is it also possible that the messer was cheaper? As in; the Knife Makers Guild had lower general prices than the Sword Makers Guild, either through market stratification or legal shenanigans. I don't know if that's the case, but the two things being functionally identical, I think I'd take the cheaper one.

Your use of hypothesis in preference to theory is correct.

Its no arming sword, but i have a certain fondness for the Falchion.

Can't find video one-edge sword vs two-edge sword which you refering to. What video is this?

That competing guilds theory makes a lot of sense. I already know of a case where such a "prerogative loophole" was exploited in France; the "galette des rois" - when breadmakers wanted to offer something special for the Epiphany, but were not allowed to make anything too fancy because of the privileges of the cakemakers guild, they started develop their own cake-but-not-legally-a-cake, which in the north half of France completely replaced the cakemakers' cake (which basically was a brioche). Though there might be simple demographic issues about why the knifemakers have overwhelmed the swordmakers (more knifemakers than swordmakers, directly related to the difference in the need of knives compared to the need of swords) may also be a legal issue. The cheapest workforce in medieval times were apprentices. If,for exemple, in the swordmakers guild a master was only allowed to form 3 apprentices, while a knifemaker was allowed to form 5, the knifemakers would have had a significant advantage to offer cheaper products. And larger workshops, with more workers, allow for more specialization and work rationalization, so better productivity and profitability.

Why do messers have that third cross guard part that comes off from the side but you don’t see it with falchions or swords with pommel construction?

So to be fair, the logic behind the idea that the Messer was used because swords were illegal for common men to carry isn't that illogical considering why it was always stated to me that swords were illegal. Now, I want to say, I'm not saying that I think that this could still be possible. Obviously that was not the law in Germany. I'm not trying to argue for that myth. But the reason why I was always told that swords were illegal was not because they were dangerous, but because they were a symbol of authority and nobility. It would be like making Ferrari's illegal unless you were a Congressman. Messers were allowed (according to this myth) because they allowed commoners the functionality of a sword without the status symbol that would come with it. At least, that's why I always heard the reason was. Your explanation makes much more sense, of course, and I think that it holds a lot of merit. And clearly the actual laws on record for Germany prove that the whole "Messer is a knife and thus you can carry it" is not true. But it's also not "illogical" given the reasons that I've always heard.

Could you give me the source for the gold inlayed blade please sir ?

TO be fair the idea that the messer was a loophole for swords isn't as illogical as you make it seem. Zip guns are an easy example in a modern day comparison. Yea zip guns can now be considered fully illegal but in the states that is just because of taxes and permits not because it can shoot.

The double vs single edge video was taken down for whatever reason. Why is that?

20:18 what sword? I wanna know the long one

Hmm, just had this thought after the part about the guilds. If a sword maker makes a sword, then he doesn't get paid until the sword is actually sold. If he sells just the blade to a knife maker instead, instant cash, and it's now the knife maker that's stuck with an extra messer until HE finds someone that wants to buy it. (Which wouldn't be too much of a problem since they were popular.) It might be lower profit per unit sold for the sword maker, but then again, it's also lower production costs and time from not needing to create and fit handles and pommels, so maybe not. They also might be able to get away with not refining the tangs much, since they can say "hey, we don't know the measurements you guys use for your knife tangs, so we're just leaving it in raw lump of metal form" which is even less production time. In the end, they might have ended up having a win-win situation with the sword makers still having their double edged sword market (ranging all the way from daggers to great swords) as well as a little share of the growing messer market by supplying the blades, and the knife makers making and selling much more messers than if they didn't buy the extra blades from the sword makers.

Are there any knifes constructed like a sword Or a dagger messer

Re: anti-sword law The purported law makes perfect sense as a sumptuary law. The purpose isn't public safety, but status. The purpose of the law is to make swords a status symbol, not to disarm anyone. Nobody cares if the burghers are armed. They're going to be armed and there's nothing anyone can do to stop it. The writers of the law might prefer for them to go in for non-sword weapons, but making the peened hilt a status symbol is good enough as long as there's something nobles can show off that burghers aren't allowed to have no matter how wealthy they might be the nobles' purpose is served. Making no real difference makes this law more plausible rather than less because if a sumptuary law were denying non-nobles something of worth the wealthy burghers would put more pressure against it. This sort of law may not have existed, but it is not implausible for such a law to exist.

Hey, Shad. First I'd like to say I enjoy your videos, and find your line of thinking both interesting and entertaining. I have a few thoughts on the concept of the messer and its legality. I am an American, who enjoys shooting sports and defensive firearms training. Here we have separate sets of laws for pistols and rifles. The most popular rifle design on the market is the AR-15. There is a popular version of this platform which is made to meet the criteria of a pistol. This is largely because rifles with a barrel length under sixteen inches are regulated as 'short barreled rifles' and require a tax stamp and addition background profiling. Now the reason people want these "pistols" is because they provide nearly the same profile and functionality as an S.B.R., but without the added hassle and cost. And again, legally they are defined as pistols. Weapon laws have always been convoluted. I am inclined to believe that the same concept did indeed apply to messers.

Just discovered this. Great stuff! Sounds logical. Furthermore - hypothetically - if your town only has a knife guild yet it's a legal requirement to carry swords, then the knife guild could order a bunch of blades from the sword guild -and if you have LOTS of towns in the same situation, then you get lots of them made for the population. I guess every town would have a blacksmith that might cover swords, but it may not be his specialty - just an idea.

At some regions classic swords and knife- type swords (sabers mostly) were produced for ages (Midle asia, Russia, Mongolia). The only question - why smiths prefer different types of hilt? What is the difference between them?

what about the price? i would assume a knife would be cheaper than a sword, specially if sword guilds rised the prices of the "certificated" swords...it's just an idea... do you have any info about that?

One possible reason messers were so common may have been because a larger number of craftsmen may have been more comfortable with knife making than swordsmithing and so to also help people who don't have swords to essentially have them then they would construct their swords like knives.

Hey Shad, your single versus double edged video is not available. Not sure if you knew.

since you said that falchion isn't really axe-like and said that falchion is actually very sharp, i'm guessing that it's because the blade is used just as much steel as the normal sword would, but because the blade is actually much more wider (broader), it makes a much smaller edge angle meanings it is very sharp. with that in mind, i'm becoming interested in comparing the falchion with other cut-focused sword like the scimitar or other curved blade sword. maybe you have any opinions about it?

"Disabuse." I love that word now. I need to start using it now.

Perhaps the nagel comes in to that theory, i.e. if a crossguard was part of the definition of a sword, then adding the nagel may have been an early attempt to get around that, and it got popular from there, just a thought.

Is it possible that the messer was popular because it was stronger (or perceived to be) because of the full tang?

That's a really interesting aspect of German culture. Do most feudal societies have laws concerning the maintenance of armaments amongst the population? If only to ensure ready supply for war when called upon to serve.

Wow! That took a while, but I finally understand that the difference between a falchion and a messer is a funny story businessmen!

I have a question can messers/falchion be 2 handed I see alot of one hander in the examples

this video is really going to help my rpg campaign

My theory is that the force of call where the sword Place landed happened to have a heavy Union standing and there just happened to be no sword dressers in the area so they took it to the knife maker the customer truly believing all they were requesting was that a handle be put on a blade. And as you say the union got involved and decided to change the style of the handle as they were only familiar with one style of handling a blade due to the control and quality necessary for butcher's knife that's what they did because that's what they could guarantee.

The rise in popularity could simply be that the knife makers undercut the sword makers

A Question: Were messers any easier, cheaper, or faster to manufacture than a falchion?

Plz do an Egyptian Khopesh analysis i really want to learn about it

Single edge vs double edge sword video got taken down?

Well this explains why I grew up rarely seeing high quality historic or pop culture daggers or swords being sold in nerdy shops, but instead, *knife shops*.

I might be commenting too soon but in classic Greece and Egypt they used the kopis aka falcata which was used in Gaul as well. I'm thinking the falchion developed from the falcata which developed from the kopis. They all come from somewhere.

I have seen techniques with the messer that would be impossible with falchion, because of the different handle, precisely because the handle on some messers is quite long, the end of the handle would be used in binding and for hooking and grapling, almost impossible with the falchion handle

What's the sword at 10:50?

Shad, I think there is one thing about messer popularity you didn't even touch. And that is price of such sword. Knife makers making swords is not enough to make such a mess in a sword market. Guilds regulated price of products, so it is very possible that knife makers used price regulation loophole as well as construction one. Messers wouldn't be SO popular so quickly without a price advantage on their side.

Who made the daggers? Did daggers come from the sword guild craftsmen if they had a hidden tang? That would seem like reasonable competition for a sword maker if the knife guild is elbowing into the slashy/stabby market.

Fashion, lack of armor in everyday life maybe favors cutting swords, like the Katana in Japan, and "stopping power"

Thank you for confirming my theory! I just have to disagree with your last statement: *Knife-fitting is better than a sword fitting*. Later sabres were all fitted like knives for a reason. You can come to that conclusion from looking at the market of reproductions today: There are a F-load of swords with rattly guards and rat-tail-tangs that would break or fall apart in combat. If you look at a messer, you can see immediately, that the tang is full length and maintains its thickness. It has moreover at least 3 rivets, whereas a sword has only one. You can also see, if the tang starts to rust. However, having an exposed tang, makes rusting far more likely. This issue complicates, when you add some (leather or cord)wrapping to the handle. Just one last thing on why there were both knife and sword guilds: You need a better iron quality for longer blades (similar to why there are no stainless steel swords) and you need a better furnace that allows larger objects to be heated homogeneously and you need to pay more attention to proper heat-treatment. Thus, a blacksmith might produce good horseshoes and nails, but no decent knives and *a knife-maker might not produce any decent war-blades* that are longer than maybe two feet.

18:25 How do I join the gril guild?

The messer he shows is a left handed isnt it? since the nagel is on the let side of the guard

Does the single edged vs double edged video still exist?

One thing I'd like to point out, in case no one has yet, is that the Lombardi people most likely originated from northern Germanic and Scandinavian peoples. So it's not unthinkable that they might still have had the notion of seaxes in their traditions, oral or otherwise, as an influence on the falchion.

7:15 I could see how people would think that hypothesis to be logical, oftentimes people try to skirt and cheat restrictions, it's a bit like the ”braced pistol" (it's functionally the same as an sbr) loophole in US gun law at the moment. People will find loopholes and capitalize on them, sometimes rather extensively.

btw i recently read that the word guild might come from an old word meaning drinking group (drinking in the sense of consuming vast amounts of alcohol)

As a huge fan of the falchion (I find them to be surprisingly elegant despite their brutish appearance and I prefer cuts over thrusts as my main means of attack), I enjoy this series. It also helps that falchions/messers, due to their construction, are a bit more forgiving and less expensive to produce than a quality double-edged sword (historically speaking) and thus they are more the "everymans" weapon, or at least as much as a sword could be for that time. Edited to add: I'm a bit of a brawler at heart and part of why I love the falchion is that it looks and feels like a brawler's weapon. It can be surprisingly elegant but I feel like the falchion is a more rough-and-tumble weapon than the more elegant weapons like the longsword, rapier, and so on. Just my opinions and the emotions I feel when handling a falchion compared to other swords, nothing really objective in this bit

I wonder if the reason of messer's popularity wasn't the required technology of production? isn't it simpler to make the messer type of tang? You can use the same wooden handles that you make for knifes, too. And also - if these swords were so thin, then the messer type tang would be much more sturdy than the typical sword's one.

One possible reason behind it's rise to popularity: The loophole makes sense, but price would be the key factor. Guilds were notorious for fluctuating prices, and the guilds in Germany were no different. As we know, the guild is essentially the same as a chartered monopoly company, though with much less complex systems of bureaucracy and being made up of multiple craftsmen rather than investors and shareholders. Thus, if one guild is able to sell the exact same product as another guild at a lower price, naturally the market will expand and the demand for the product won't necessarily "rise" but shift to the other company. Take Standard Oil for example (though not a chartered monopoly it serves my point). I own a gas station in a small town. Everyone owns a car because their place of employment lies miles away, and we are too insignificant to have a rail-system run from our town to the city. So, naturally, I make a lot of money. I'm the only person in town who owns a gas station, and I can simply bar others from starting one because I am the most trusted individual on the subject since I'm the only person who has ever sold gas or fixed cars (gas stations used to be maintenance stations as well). In my town, that is. One day a plot of land is bought by standard oil, and they build their gas station. Before they do so, they offer to buy mine out and possibly let me run it. I decline. So when they build the gas station, they drop the price of gas in that specific station to a penny, and I'm selling my gas for a dime. Because people are not stupid, they will naturally start buying the cheaper gas, though some may cling to my maintenance shop for it's traditional quality, most people will buy their gas at the Standard Oil station. I will be run out of business, or Standard Oil will then offer to buy out my station for a lower price than earlier. Either way, I've lost my money. Similarly, the knife-makers guild (or Standard Oil) would realize they can expand into a market that was previously dominated by another guild (or the local gas station) by exploiting the loophole described in your video. While specific historical evidence may not exist, basic economic principles that date back to the invention of currency do. And, like the standard oil example, there will be some loyal customers, opting for the quality of my service (or the quality of a specific facet of any service I offer) rather than the cheaper price. The market does not grow or truly expand, it simply shifts in favor of another service-provider. And in a time where the basic idea of capitalism may have been somewhat understood but not enforced or preferred by any political entity (see The Wealth of Nations by Adam Smith) this is huge. The sword-makers would realize that any attempts to change the guild laws agreed upon between guilds and/or the landed nobility, would instantly be blocked by the knife-makers. At least, where the practice began. In nations where the messer was initially less-popular, the sword-makers would appeal to ban the sale of knives exceeding a certain length, or at least be granted the sole right to produce said knives, in my opinion, and I'd be interested to see what further research yields.

Isn't it also possible that knife hilts just became trendy in some areas?

One advantage to two guilds (and therefore double the possible craftsmen and forges) making swords or sword sized knives is the ability to meet surge demand for swords. Every [male] citizen being required to own and/or carry a sword is a lot of swords. It is possible that the swordsmith workforce of a given region was incapable at times to satisfy demand.

Were guilds the Medieval/Renaissance version of Labor Unions? (Minus the price manipulation)

I know it's a large jump in centuries but is it more possible they're a reinvention of the spartan kopis? i love swords but I'm not a sword guy and I'm not going to pretend that I know what I'm talking about but I feel they look extremely similar, the falchion looks like a larger more advanced kopis reinvented for that time period

You might want to note that messer is not the only sword with riveted hilt. A bit east of Passau such design was centuries old an commonplace on different swords. While you might be right with the guild hypothesis it might very well be that the German sword makers simply tried to satisfy their eastern customers and for whatever reason their product got popular. One of the earliest depiction of messers show two people fighting with messer and Hungarian type shields so such exchange is not unlikely.

But there are knives with all kinds of tangs. Both full and hidden tang constructions were used.

So, in short: Falchion and Messer is similar- from the sword( and knife) making guilds in Germany. Because knife makers cannot make swords, they has to use the loophole in the law about specifications of a sword and a knife to make swords that built like knives. In time the sword making guilds is involved and supply needs with knife making guilds as well (hey I did a pretty good summary of the vid wow)

The story of the German Guilds is similar to the Laws created by London's Guildhall. If the quality was not good enough, the maker would be "Sent to Coventry", the next nearest commerce centre.

About those guilds, I think that the primary reason they existed (and unfortunately still exists in some places (taxi drivers fighting uber)) is to obtain a monopoly from the ruler of the city.