Suggestion: "Cleaver-Sword." Meanwhile, you're absolutely right that Third Edition D&D misrepresents the falchion horribly. However, the SECOND Edition was not so guilty of this, and actually depicted the weapon quite accurately. To be honest, the Second Edition game's Arms & Equipment guide (where I first HEARD of the falchion) was a fairly decent arms & armor guide for beginners, which subsequent version of the game have failed to do justice to.
Years ago, I had a sword-maker custom -make a sword for me that I designed. I never really knew what to call it, when people asked what type of sword it was. Now I feel like I could call it a falchion. It's still a unique design, but it definitely has some similarities to some of the falchion profiles shown in this series. So from now on, I think I'll call it a "custom falchion"!
Honestly I think Medieval Back Sword has a nice ring to it. Mostly since the Renaissance version is already called that so maybe the medieval one should just share the same name. Be lot more easier then coming up with a separate name for what is essentially the predecessor of the back sword.
Really love this series! I'm glad you've been doing this for us! I am about to start my new job here soon, and I think once my first paycheck comes in I'll become a patron. This content is great and educational, and I just plain freaking love swords and castles and crap! So, people are still giving out names? Well, well, prepare yourself for a list! I see all these as viable names for one reason or another, but of course some fit the bill more than others. - "Razorsword" Has the properties of the swords in question. Thin, fine, sharp, fragile, and of course, single-edged! It still sounds a bit silly and too edgy (pun intended). - "Shaversword" Ehh... eh. - "Edge/Edgedsword" It's good and flows fairly well, but.. don't all swords have an edge? Otherwise they're just kind of metal clubs, aren't they.. - "Medieval backsword/Medieval single-edged sword" It works! It's longer than wanted, but it just works. - "Occamsword" It goes along with the razor theme as well as introduces some very well placed, almost poetic, situational irony. (Or should I say steel-y?) Only catch is that it could be attributed to William of Ockham or the village of Ockham itself. God, that irony is so sweet, though! - "Seversword" It's intimidating and the blade would do just that: sever! - "Sundersword" See above, but this one (imo) sounds cleaner. Not in terms of what it would do, obviously, but in terms of being spoken fluidly. - "Cutsword" Lame, and a large portion of swords (and other things) can cut. Some better. - "Bladesword" Hate to hurt your feelings, Shad, but this just straight sounds lame. This and that everything that is exposed metal which has an edge on it, and is attached to a handle of some kind is technically a blade. Don't get me wrong, it works well, but *only* when you see it in terms of what 'blade' is defined as and if that describes this sword adequately. - "Hewingsword" It might be already taken, not sure. But it sounds cool and pretty professional, so it could work. Might be easily confused as a tool for a carpenter, though. - "Sharpsword" Please, no. - "Singlesword" I like the loyalty to the single-edged part, but it can easily be misinterpreted as a sword used by itself and as a primary weapon.
You're a gentleman, thank you for your support sir. Yeah, bladesword is lame, I've abandoned it. In regard to single sword, it's interesting because each sword name that's already established like longsword and armingsword, could also be easily misinterpreted and in regard to longsword, has been. So I'm thinking singlesword or edgesword should work ^_^
While I love these serious, it made reading the German wikipedia article on the Messer quite painful. It even states the the messer was developed because "only nobles were allowed to carry doubled-edged swords".
I am thoroughly enjoying this series. I think a little more than the katana series, probably cause I never really knew a lot about either the falsion or messer. And as always, god only knows why I love your odd of beat style and humor lol. Can't wait for the next part and then the next series, keep it up brother
I have enjoyed this series and I'm excited to see the Elmsly Typology. I think you might benefit from more collaboration Namely Dimicator (Roland Warcheka- Don't take that spelling as gospel) and others from the HEMA (Historical European Martial Arts) Community as to the use of these and many other Medieval Viking/dark age, renaissance weapons.
The Cluny Falchion, beside the conventional type tang, is how machetes would be like if manufacturing cost was not an issue. Good quality machetes already have some distal taper. Not much, usually about 0.5mm, but it still makes some difference. But distal taper is GOOOOD, because it makes the blade stiffer at the handle, guard and ricasso, and more flexible at the percusion point. And this sorts of fends the vibrations off in the tip, instead of having the whole blade wobble, so it helps keeping a more secure grip, and I suspect to also have better control of edge alignement even in less than optimal cuts. I realised it while watching Skallagrim's torture testr of his Albions swords. But machete have to be mass produced and extremely cheap, thus the flat stock and almost cosmetic grind. But if you want to increase the performances of a machete, without changing the balance much, you take some of the width at the guard/ricasso to put it in spine thickness, so you achieve more distal taper, and you actually grind the blade to a full flat grind to remove thickness at the edge which improve penetration in the cut. This removed metal can be used to make the blade wider. The Cluny Falchion is an engineered version of the typical latin machete blade. A machete is NOT a heavy chopping tool comparable to an axe. I'll keep pounding than the basic latin machete and the Cluny falchion, beside the guard, are in the same class of design, only the machete is designed for cheap industrial production from flat stock laminated by the ton, while the Cluny requires huge lot of carefull hand work, be it in forging or grinding. Regarding the curve, it makes a difference, but in a much more subtle way than you think of. Longitudinal moment of inertia, and position of the center of percussion to the axis of least resistance. I still need to work on it some more, but it's a physical certainty that for the same blade, a curved version will have a hight longitudinal moment of inertia than a straight version. This means it will need more force to turn around its longitudinal axis (tip to pommel axis, to be a bit clearer). But more importantly, the mass distribution and blade cuvature might make that the actual point of percussion is "behind" the axis of least resistance to longitudinal rotation (that passes throught the center of gravity). This means that such a sword/saber would be very prone to self-align with the cut, because the alignement would be the state of stable equilibrium.
+Shadiversity One thing I'd like to point out because I noticed it quite often in your video: The "a" in "Nagel" (which is, as you said, the German word for "nail") is pronounced like the "a" in "arm". Just for your information (and all others who don't speak German). Apart from that (which is not bad, it is only natural for an English native speaker) I absolutely LOVE your Falchion/Messer series. I learned quite a bit there. So please keep up your great work, I really enjoy and appreciate it. :) Greetings from Germany
The thing I love about your videos is the enthusiasm with which you speak. If you weren't so energetic and passionate about the subject matter I could see how this type of video could get very boring and monotonous. Don't let the haters keep you from shouting in your videos!
Regarding the slight curve on the katana and Messer depicted towards the end, it's not necessarily there to provide more cutting power. If it does, then that's great for the wielder and I suggest taking advantage of it. It's there for advance fighting techniques to sort the pros from the losers. With a figurative flick of the wrist mid-parry, you can offset the balance your opponent holds over their weapon, and send it swinging wide while you go for the victory. A friend of mine spent years going to Bushido classes, and that's something he was taught. Food for thought
I saw a program on the history channel that stated the Falchion could hack threw Maille. They clearly were testing cheap ebay butted armor. It would have wrecked the sword edge on riveted and heavy butted historical armor. Also a big misconception is that people didn't have swords/armor made that absolutely sucked in combat. I think all these variants of Falchion designs are a testament to that.
A thrust from a straight sword is very predictable and requires a specific angle of deflection from your parry to make it miss you. A curved blade can be twisted 180 degrees and present the need for a much wider parry to deflect the point away from you.
I'm a fan of the series. I was told when I bought my Cold Steel grosse messer that it was "technically not a sword" and therefore could be carried as you mention. Thanks for clearing this up! I'm excited for the typology video! Please make it painfully detailed! :)
G'day Shad, As per your request, herewith the *"Heads-Up !"* that I finally got around to doing that "Colonial & Contemporary Stone Structures, Glen Innes..." video yesterday afternoon ; and it went up last night. It took a bit over 90 minutes to shoot 15 minutes, & I haven't counted the Cuts made on the Pause-Button between Takes ; but it's not a bad bit of Shoot-In-Sequence storytelling. The whole thing was shot "Combat", from Public-Access Land, least anybody refuse permission had I asked - which would've wrecked the whole video. I'll have to get the Clergy on-side to be able to make the "Holy Triangulation" video though, to be able to get inside 3 Churches and be able to walk around videoing & narrating, all on the one Phone-Battery... Such is Life, Have a good one... ;-p Ciao !
Here's another question: Would you say that the messer/falchion and the many variations of chinese Dao play a rather similar role in their respective societies?
shad, i realized while watching this, maybe you should do an entire video or series about d&d 3.5's terrible weapon treatment. I've got in many debates because how they treat some weapons as in art or there whole sword issue
In speaking of the benefits- or lack thereof- to a slight curve in the blade shape, does the curve make drawing the sword from its scabbard easier than it would be for a straight blade of the same length? If so, that would be a benefit to a curved blade profile.
Matt from scholagladiatoria did a cutting test with a falchion design based off of some if the ones you mentioned and he specifically describes it as being a slower sword and that it is not fast and whippy.
With regards to the handle construction of the katana versus the messer, I wouldn't say that they are really so different as you made it seem when you briefly touched on it. They both use pins to hold the grip together to the tang and they both have little end caps to secure it. The handle of a messer may be heavier due to what materials are being used, but the function of the pieces are really quite similar. I am now cursed to look at katanas as oversized fancy kitchen knives. Very much looking forward to seeing what the new Elmslie typologies are like. By the way, would you be up for a video that compares the peened tang construction method to the holes-and-pins knife method? I'm sure there are some pros and cons to having a grip that is 50% hard metal against your hands as opposed to being covered entirely by soft materials, though that particular type is only one subset of possible messer grips.
Btw, what about curved thrusts for curved swords? What I mean with that is... e.g. if you thrust with a short blade (dagger) at close range, your thrusting movement might (perhaps depending on the situation etc a bit) be along a slight curve rather than being a completely straight line. I feel when the curve of a slightly curved sword matches the curve of your slightly curved thrusting movement, it would not necessarily be all that bad at thrusting when thrusting that way. Having said that, a fully straight sword will probably still be better at thrusting in general because it is more effective with a wider range of thrusting moves and such.
re: katana and messer, the handle construction is more similar between them than either is to a European sword. The geometry differs, but the topology differs only in the presence or absence of an endcap.
Sizes of the Type II falchion from the private collection: Total length: 733mm. Blade's length: 561mm. Blade's width: 41 to 72mm. Cross: 142mm. Pommel's radius: 52mm. Blade's thickness: from 8mm to 3mm. 1.19kg,
From my experience in cutting Tatami with both eastern and western swords, The curve on a sword does certainly make an easier shallow, superficial cut, but if it's too deep a curve it robs a little from the ability to make a stronger more effective cut while chopping. With that in mind, The very slight curve on some Falchion/Messers makes sense if you consider the pressing or draw-cut techniques in most styles of swordsmanship. Because the curve is not strong enough to rob from the chopping power, all you're doing by giving your sword a small curve is adding the ability to press a shallow cut against cloth or skin without any negative trade off.
Are katana and messer/falchion equivalent? Just like you answered the question of “are messer and falchion different,” I would say look at the function. What conditions/challenges were katana designed to overcome?
Thinner blades cut better than thicker blades of the same width because they have a more shallow angle of deflection. Which means (angle of deflection that due to the shallow angle of the grind material deflects away at the same angle x2. So if your included grind angle (the total deviation off the center-line for both edges) is 10°. Than your included angle of deflection is 20°. The more steep the angle of deflection is the more a material will bind. In order to get a more shallow angle you need less deviation from ultimate thickness to ultimate thinness (i.e. a thinner blade overall). Things like dispersion of kinetic energy, cohesiveness of material and hardness of cutting implement also matter towards friction generated. but these are more minor influences. Angle of deflection is the primary factor in binding and single angle/included angle are the primary factors in sharpness.
I know that this information with probably not help but I practice Chinese Martial arts and there is a basic distinction between a Jian (Mandarin) or Gim (Cantonese) which is a double edged sword and a Dao (Mandarin) or Do (Cantonese) which is literally translated as a knife which is a single edged slightly curved sword. The Dao is also commonly translated as a saber in English. The version of the Dao or Do that is commonly used today is known as the Ox Tail saber and its blade is very similar in shape to the pictures of the Falchion and the Messer that you have in your video.
Medieval single-edged sword or medieval backsword are my favourites, but the first one is much better. Or just "Falchion and Messer". Or Falchionlike sword. Or maybe Knifesword? You know, the sword that is often made like a knife. Yesss... Knifesword. That sounds great!
The varied width starting point and presence of the falchion beville is understandable from a slashing standpoint. What purpose is served by the changes in the fuller? weight distribution? personal appearance? social standing?
I have seen variations in the katana, including length, width, and curve. Though, overall shapes were similar. Of course many, many swords where destroyed after WWII, so there may have been some that had greater design fluctuations and modifications not represented in the surviving specimens after WWII.
My machete disagrees with your assertions of top heaviness, you are thinking of Kukri. In fact the machete is a smaller version of the Falchion that was carried by the spanish military during the age of privateers. It is most likely that the hammer part of the machete name is actually referring to its grip type, as opposed to saber and ice pick grips. The falchion saw a resurgence in the navy due to the fact that most soldiers were not wearing metal armor, and they needed a lightweight melee side arm that was not as cumbersome as the officer's cutlass, low profile so it would not interfere with climbing and exploring terrain, and useful for a wide variety of applications. The name machete comes from the non-naval users who would buy them from the navy for civilian use, the early machetes were called falchions by the actual naval soldiers who used them. I would say that machetes, falchions, and messers should be called falchions. Machetes are guardless falchions, messers are tri-wing falchions.
s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/57/df/2b/57df2b8772caffede6b0955ceda88c6f.jpg Strip away the guard and you got yourself a machete. Just for your interest this is what the navy swords looked like in the early 16th century.
In the Caribbean machetes were (and are still used) to harvest sugar cane. There they had no guard. Add a guard and you have a weapon used by the Cuban mambises to fight the Spanish army.
I assume the argument about sword curves has to mention PSI at some point, the idea of a smaller initial impact point which then becomes longer as you go.. can't speak to swords from personal experience, but for knives that has a really special ability.
Speaking as somone who trained HEMA and a bit of kenjitsu gross/kriegs messers(those two handed) and katana are very similar in way you fence with them compared to long swords. Mind you that difference is small, mostly in thrusts and zwerchau, a bit in winden...
The more you talk about it the falchion/messer design seems basically the same as Chinese niuweidao (AKA Chinese broadsword). Somewhat curved, with a wide tip and thin blade. Both widely used by civilians, used in cutting or slashing style and primarily used against cloth armor.
There's one thing you haven't mentioned: many Falchion and Grossmesser share some characteristics with the Kukri, Falcata, Kopis or Kora, that you won't find on any other sword or Katana: *The point of impact is shifted forward*, like on a hammer or axe, but not as extreme. It still seems to improve the cutting capacity, but I don't understand it in detail yet. Actually, there's another thing: Most blade weapons have only one center of mass, but Falchions and Grossmesser have two. Axes, kukri... have most of their mass near the tip whereas swords have most of their mass at the hilt. Falchions and Grossmesser have both centers of mass, making one really odd compromise.
The naming issue is synthetic. Falchions are swords defined by their blade shape when compared to any other sword except the Messer. Therefore the Messer is a subset of falchions defined by their hilt construction. To an extent Messer is like using Zweihander instead of Greatsword.
A thought occurs on the subject of slight curves in blades. Keeping in mind that I have had nearly a litre of rum, please bear with me. The slight curve may not be there to help cut, but to stop you from cutting too deeply. Now, it has been established that falchions and messers are razor blades, now suppose you have gotten through your opponent's gambeson or is, God save the poor bastard, unarmoured these blades will bite into flesh and bite deep. Which is where getting your sword lodged in bone may begin to become a concern. So, your sword, following the arc of a strike, the blade will only go so deep with that curve. Of course, I could be complete wrong and the whole curved blade thing is entirely aesthetic.
True, that works fine but I find it too long and it would be nice if the name fit in with the current terminology, like longsword, armingsword, sidesword and so on.
you know as you were talking a lot about why the different handle... could it be just simply they wanted for a different handle type? and they sorta exploited this rule for this?
well the slight curve must have a reason, because unlike with katana they were made intentionally. I think it has something to do with blades getting stuck in bones. if a straight blade hits a bone and stops and you continue the same motion, you could get it out, but I think you will not be as fast and it could be awkard. if you have a slight curve at the end and you continue with your motion, the blade should slide out more easily. the same problem is solved by distal taper. and that's where it starts to make sense to me, because messers that have this feature don't have significant distal taper, compared to the sword. falchions could have a similiar problem. because they are so thin there is physically no room for distal taper, so they had to compensate with this feature, because trying to pry it out with a blade that is that thin would not end well. What do you think?
I don't think the guy would drew the arms and armor for D&D 3rd Edition knew what anything looked like. The armor he drew was especially horrendous. As for a sword that's like an axe, go with another sword that starts with "falc" :)
18:34 I notice in the picture you show that the point of the sword is not (as you indicated) in line with the hilt for good point control when thrusting. However, it appears to be pretty much in line with the back of the blade. Could this be because with such a thin blade, putting the force of the thrust through the middle of the blade may result in the metal failing under that force? The way the hilt and point line up in your picture would mean the force is transmitted mainly through the strong back of the blade. Thoughts, anyone? :-)
The Falchion looks a lot like a Scimitar, which in commonly depicted as a middle easter sword. I don't even know if scimitar is a thing, but i've played many games with them. Also, the scimitar is commonly used as a "pirate sword", being found on wrecked ships in skeletons .
Actually, when thinking of a pirate sword, generally what is being described is akin to a cutlass or short saber. A scimitar or shamshir is indeed a Middle Eastern curved sword, however one that was introduced to the Middle East well after the falchion gained prominence in Europe, as Shad says in his video. It's worth noting that the curved blade tends to be extremely popular throughout central and western Asia.
The better cutting of cloth of a Falchion and messer would make it better for self defense as opposed to for war, because people would not wear metal armor around for their daily lives.
So about the nagel and side ring.... Were these somewhat exclusive to their respective design? I.e., would it be out of place to have a nagel on a falchion or a side ring on a messer? Or were they a shared feature?
Shad, love your vids. I just have a bit of an unrelated question, what software do you use to make your 3D sword designs? I have made my own swords with autocad inventor but It's a bit quirky with the way ir works when trying to make swords with it and I find it to be a bit excesive
TheFilthyCasual No, watch it from 3:30. Basically he says falchion is not like machete because a machete is top heavy cleaver like. And then continues describing the measurements of a falchion which are identical to a machete. Well a machete is not really top heavy.
Adam Koncz Well, there is a huge variety in this type of swords, and some might very well be very similar to a machete. Of course, machete-like tools also have a huge variety. But machetes aren't really suited to fighting other people, even though they have been used for that. I don't have experience handling swords, just theoretical knowledge, unfortunately, but I do have (a little) experience with machetes (not fighting with them, obviously, just clearing out brush and stuff), and they are NOT agile, so in a fight they would be quite bad both at defending and at recovering (from a miss, or from hitting a shield, etc.). Now imagine a machete the size of a sword - it would hit like a beast, but it would be very unwieldy, making it too slow in both attack and defense.
question, given that the weight is lighter than an arming sword of the same size, and the blade is thinner, could it be that it is not a forward heavy blade but more of a hilt heavy sword, basically a big trench knife as far as feeling, to give it more control?
Idk, keeping the term Falchions and Messers is fine to me. But if you have to unify them- after watching the series I learned that they're basically the same- I would follow the term medieval edgesword. Don't know why, it just fits.
I would call all these swords Falchions. The Messers also being Falchions, but if so desired, can be more closely defined as messer Falchions because they're falchions with 'messer' ie knife tang hilts. It's historically sanctioned and requires little change to what presently accepted.
