THE TRUTH! Are High End Shoes OVERPRICED? 

Yeah there are always the true high value propositions and the more name brand mark ups, but a majority are fairly charging for their time and labor.

There’s always nuances to it but I’d say within the traditional welted shoe community, the rule of thumb is different than the rule for high end fashion brands. Consumer budgets and the general consumer needs are factors for the individual but since we’re in the enthusiast world, I’d say the broad stroke generalizations that apply to the everyday consumer don’t apply. Essentially, yes Meccariello, acme, yohei, are objectively 2x 3x better than their entry level competitors at half the price. Now if a consumer, including myself can’t budget those makers, that’s obviously disqualifying them from consideration. But it doesn’t devalue the significant enhanced experience and functional benefits they provide.

If this is true, I fully endorse this 😁

I think we’re having 2 different conversations. Of course consumers can choose whatever they find to be most suited towards their needs. I’m not talking about high end apparel brands or fashion brands, I’m clearly talking about traditional shoemakers. The idea that a $300 shoe with a general likeness to the $3,000 handmade shoe means they’re of the same quality is at best being uninformed of the product and at worst intentionally deceitful to increase sales to unassuming consumers.

Haha. Lovely way to put it. But it’s true, I mean there’s no hard feelings if people think it’s too much money to budget for shoes. But that doesn’t mean the shoe should then be more affordable. I wonder how they’d react if their year end performance evaluation said they were overpriced and their boss offered them a starting salary instead 🤣

I would go for tlb mallorca 136 or cnes shoemaker. I wonder what @Shellvedge thinks.

Yeah in fairness, if they’re the wrong size it’s hard to judge the true benefits of the higher end option. But, these are 2 of the closest shoemakers in the traditional shoemaking world that could be seen as a household name brand.

Yeah that’s definitely a fair observation

Yeah I’d say when you get to that segment of the heritage brands some of the prices are merely a product of the business being as big and needing to support all of the infrastructure they’ve created. whether it’s necessary or not that’s another question

100%

Yeah and to be quite honest, most of that look is from improperly fitted shoes. None of my shell have any ripples or waves. They have a single fold like any other leather. The difference is there are no micro creases.

shell is not comfortable.

⁠@@Shellvedgeyes, yours look great. My Alden single monks ripple attractively but seem too informal for quality suit. My Vass calf Oxfords are smooth with tiny creases. Whole cut vamps tend to show the ripples. My wing tip shell Carminas have no ripples since they’re assembled from multiple pieces.

Enough said! Thank you!

Overpriced or just not enough value for you? I mean the broader “hand grade” makers like CJ are under $1,000, but a huge part of the artisanal shoemaking market is between $1,000-$2,000. These are handmade shoes but not bespoke. I’d disagree that they’re overpriced, but I’d say they’re not the exact value I’m looking for. Unless you genuinely feel these makers are charging abusive margins (which they aren’t). Bespoke shoes are traditionally in the $3,000+ range. So that’s a huge segment of the market in the $1,000+ price.

@@Shellvedge Isn't that semantics? I think they're overpriced because there isn't enough value add over companies like CJ or Carmina. At the 1K+ price point, I'd rather have 1 perfect fitting, bespoke, shoe over multiple "handmade" but not bespoke shoe. This is the end-game issue of shoe collecting. A single bespoke shoe is better than half a dozen to a dozen none bespoke shoes.

@@Adam-jr4lx not really. Overpriced would be if they charge 2x the normal margin in my eyes. I mean the implication is they should and can charge less but refuse to do so for the sake of lining their pockets. Saying for the price it just isn’t delivering the value you want, is a completely different assertion. In my eyes, the words used, whether to overtly or imply your intent is often overlooked and then you get mobs of people freaking out thinking there are billionaire shoemakers somewhere. Believe me, most shoemakers and most heritage brands aren’t in the money making business like fashion brands. They increase prices because their materials cost more or because their labor is more skilled and cost them more to learn and perfect. These aspects should not be overlooked because while many new shoemakers can make something that aesthetically looks similar, it’s far from it when it comes to the design and functional performance. Now not everyone VALUES those things, and that’s where folks disagree on whether or not something is worth the price. But ultimately, just because something isn’t worth the price to you, doesn’t mean they’re overcharging you.

@@Adam-jr4lx not really. Overpriced would be if they charge 2x the normal margin in my eyes. I mean the implication is they should and can charge less but refuse to do so for the sake of lining their pockets. Saying for the price it just isn’t delivering the value you want, is a completely different assertion. In my eyes, the words used, whether to overtly or imply your intent is often overlooked and then you get mobs of people freaking out thinking there are billionaire shoemakers somewhere. Believe me, most shoemakers and most heritage brands aren’t in the money making business like fashion brands. They increase prices because their materials cost more or because their labor is more skilled and cost them more to learn and perfect. These aspects should not be overlooked because while many new shoemakers can make something that aesthetically looks similar, it’s far from it when it comes to the design and functional performance. Now not everyone VALUES those things, and that’s where folks disagree on whether or not something is worth the price. But ultimately, just because something isn’t worth the price to you, doesn’t mean they’re overcharging you.

​@@Shellvedge Again, I think this is semantics. About ~4,000 USD is the entry point of real bespoke shoes. If you're spending ~2,000 USD for a "handmade but not bespoke" shoe then I don't think the value is there. I'd rather have 1 perfect fitting pair of shoes rather than 2 or 3 okay fitting shoes. I think ~500 USD is the sweet spot and above that you get diminishing returns.

Where am I wrong? Please tell…

Yep and no one said it won’t. But for an additional small price, you could have a pair that provides an improved experience, more support, more comfort and a pair that would last for life instead of for years.

Leica is definitely a financial decision. But does that mean I can’t have opinions? I’m going to borrow the sentiment from my friend @sharad_shoes on IG. “value is very confusing concept for people in shoes [or cameras]. When they see an indo maker charging $500 for same thing for what [Role Club] is charging $2000 they think Brian [the bookmaker] should be charging the same thing.” That’s not a fair expectation when it’s the time, the rent, workshop, years of training that account for that difference in cost. Those factors pay dividends in almost every small detail that comprises a boot. If people don’t care about the details, the wearer experience and comfort, then it’s ok to say for the price there’s more value in budget option. I’m not sure why folks struggle to grasp this concept.

@@Shellvedge Your attempt to explain it is appreciated, but you seem to suggest that a Leica justifies its price, which is not the case. A Leica, much like a Rolex in the world of watches, relies on artificial scarcity and inflated marketing to skyrocket prices without delivering any tangible added value. It's not that competitors have no operating costs; it just hinges on whether the target audience caters to individuals willing to overspend for the illusion of luxury and exclusivity, or if they seek a fair price for the service provided. That being said, I'm not claiming that the camera quality is poor; it's certainly not. However, the actual value falls significantly short of the price, regardless of the excuses you may provide.

@@ezpz2624 I think we’re getting into a different set of circumstances but sure let’s give it a shot. Leica like man high end products are not necessities. But for those professionals who choose to use them, more than likely have a different set of priorities than the professional looking for the most cost effective high end camera. Are leicas flawless? No. No camera is. But let’s do a quick market evaluation focusing on technology, build quality, image quality and user experience. Leica is behind the other main brands in autofocus and other technologies that allow the user to rely on the camera to get the job done. Build quality, canon, Nikon and Sony are all reliable brands but none offer solid metal body constructions, with the materials and robust nature of Leica bodies and lenses. In fact I owned and used the Sony A1, and have held canon r5, R3 and it’s very different button and dial qualities and the composite bodies just aren’t as rigid as Leica. Image quality, again, Nikon Sony canon all offer fantastic image quality for both video and photo. That said, none offer the same micro lens and micro contrast image rendering ability of the Leica lenses and some of the customization Leica performs on the sensors they acquire for their cameras. This provides objectively higher acuity, rendering resolution and contrast accuracy between subjects and backgrounds. User experience - Leica has a very simple tactile physical experience while not sacrificing any of the main required functionality of modern digital cameras. Without writing a book, it is easily justifiable if the differentiating factors that only leica offers are what matches the priorities of the shooter. Name another camera brand offering a modern range finder digital camera? Or a full frame point a shoot fixed lens with a high resolution sensor and internal C4k 60 video codec. Like let’s not let the outrage of the internet distract from the facts. It’s an individual choice and Leica has plenty to offer that distinguishes themselves as the best highest performing options for a small segment of the photography market.

@@ezpz2624 sorry just missed the artificial scarcity comment. When these lenses and bodies are made by hand to the high specification tolerances they are, it’s not something that can be mass produced. So yes, they could compromise and scale to outsourcing the production to a factory assembly automation, but that’s not what Leica is. They’re a small company with limited capacity, that isn’t an artificial limit, that’s the nature of the build process.

Yeah that’s an entirely different conversation. Once you get into fashion brands the price to value ratio is nonexistent