The Truth Behind Farming Simulator 25 

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Reading these comments makes my head hurt. I am a retired game developer, and i worked with Giants when I was with Focus and they were under the Focus Publishing umbrella. The majority of the commenters here have never worked in game development, and obviously have no idea how it actually works. First, it was considered to switch to Unity or Unreal engine before FS19 came out, and it wasn't feasible. The engine would require so much adjustment to make it run the game, that it was literally better to upgrade the Giants Engine. Not just money wise, but time wise as well. Unity was a closer fit for what is needed to run Farm Simulator, but it also required heavy modification to make certain things work, such as making your own fields and having the AI know how to identify them. These are things that have to be hard coded to the engine, and it was majorly time consuming. As such, the Giants engine still remains the best choice for the game. That isn't to say the Giants engine is perfect, but it takes a lot of work and time to upgrade the engine. They spent two years working on the engine upgrade for FS25, and I have had some hands-on time with the game at FarmCon24. I think they've done great work upgrading it. And not just graphically, but physics feels better too. It's easy to sit back and point fingers at the developers for not including things that a modder has added, but modders can break rules that the game cannot be allowed to do. One of those rules is keeping it accessible and simple for every user. My go to example is Course Play, while a great mod, is not really user friendly for the average player. Add to that how hard it would be to use it well on console with a controller, and you start to understand why it wasn't incorporated into the base game. Speaking of consoles, they have limited resources. That means memory and processing power, etc. Because of this you have to be mindful when making a game that features will be able to work within the specific parameters of a console environment. Imagine how bad it would be to have a console version that was missing, say AI helpers, because there wasn't enough power in the console to run it. And before someone says it, scripted mods like CoursePLay are not allowed on console due to Sony and Microsoft policies, not Giants. Low end PC's have issues because they need some of the console limitations applied to them, but the nature of PC is you need to know your hardware...so you can get bad results if you're not setting things up right on your end. It's the reason there are limits to how many things you can have on a map on console. There is also the manufacturers of the equipment in game, and they have certain rules Giants has to follow as well. John Deere is the reason there is no animal death, because they require the game to have an E for Everyone (Pegi-3) rating. Any death in a game will boost that rating up, and it's contracted by John Deere to have that rating. Mods are not rated, by the way. I'm not defending any decisions made, or the decision to not include something. But as someone who is actually a game developer, it's not just black and white. Every game has to give in certain places to get in others. They decide what they need, based on how they game can perform and what the contracts they have demand. If you like the game, play it. If you don't, move on. Sure, giving constructive feedback is always welcome to anyone in this industry, but let's be honest...how often is it constructive. To be clear, I am not attacking anyone. I just think it's way to easy to sit back and say what should be and accuse the devs of not caring or even trying and you don't know anything about what it takes to make a game in the first place. There is a massive difference in saying you don't like something, and what parts you don't like, to making accusations and putting down the people who made it. You don't get up everyday and go to work 12 hours a day making a game for people to hate. No one making games is doing that. The people who make it do so because they enjoy it. It's a boring and thankless job most of the time. Takes months to years of your hard work before you see anything from it. At the end of the day you try to make the best game you can, and you know it won't be for everyone. You know that no matter what you do there will be people who hate you for it. That's not a job you do unless you love it. You have to care to love it. Cheers.

It's also not really a simulator. It's really more of a casual game. They're never going to add anything remotely realistic like compaction. They can't even make properly working pallet physics. It's just a cozy casual game where you paint different textures on a dirt texture.

as a real farmer i love what farming simulator is doing it gives players freedom to play as eal or as arkady as they want. the graphics are good and i like the clean look ove a gritty dark more real look. anothe eason for limiting mods equally is to help with crossplay. if you treat the physics realistically you can get them to work realisticly but also some people like playing and doing stupid thisngs with the physics

They need more competition. Because theyre the only ones making a farm sim game they not going to do to badly. But if anotyer game devopler was to start doing a farming game and do it bettter then giants would pull theyre head inna bit to make sure they dont lose customers to the competition

Hold up wait a minute, they make enough money from manufacturers to cover the costs of development! What the heck are they doing with all the other money they’re bringing in? It sure doesn’t look like they’re putting it back into making the game better. That’s a lot of money just banking in from sales.

I think you are pretty spot-on with this assessment. The game engine is okay, but lacking. If FS22 was released in 2016, things would be much more on-pace with the market. What they have (still have) is a game focused around re-painting textures as you drive around doing farm tasks. Take how water is handled as a plane for example. Dirt, the foundation of what you are dealing with plays very little role in the overall gameplay. My frustration comes in the “madden effect” in their release pattern, coupled with modders making this game what it is today. Very little innovation from GIANTS. At some point, with this much money to be had in this specific market, a large developer is going to poke into this market and force change.

You know things are bad when 90% of this stuff is possible in modded FS17

My biggest concern is more over how little effort they put into the year 2 pass. And didn’t even make a statement or apology for DMI’s paid mod disaster. Seems they have got quite full of themselves.

This is the best video about Farming Simulator / Giants issue I have ever seen, Everything is on point! They don't have competition and they don't care about customers, farming simulator is the new fifa / fc ...

I was playing Red Dead Redemption 2 the other day, which is a Cowboy story game, but it has a very minor element of farming. But they do it so well. The animals look great and actually have realistic behavior. You can scare a cow and the whole herd will start running around and they can accidentally trample a small animal along the way. There is a part where you work on a ranch and you can milk a cow by hand and scoop up waste in a barn all very realistically. This just makes me wonder what a farming game can look like with this kind of expertise and commitment.

Great video. There are a lot of good points here. gets me thinking. And I'm just gonna say it. I think we need a competitor here in the farm sim category. Some one to just give us what we've (the community) been asking for but have fallen on deaf ears with Giants. If it's all about the dollar, Giants might wake up if their profits start to slip due to a competitor stepping into the market and showing them they could be dethroned!

Giants is totally just riding the lazy money wave. More work equals less profits so they just simply refresh the graphics and rely on the modders to do the actual work. There's no real competition so no need to put in the extra effort to make it an actual simulator. Unfortunately they do just enough to rope us in every time they release a new version. I'm definitely waiting for FS25 to go on sale this time. There's no way I'm paying $80 again for their lack of innovation.

I have been playing FS since FS 19. As far as graphics and physics, I see very little change between 19 and 22 which had me asking, "Why are they putting out a new version?". I got fs 22 for free from EPIC, but I had been watching 22 on RU-vid. The helpers are still buggy, and the glitches are even more numerous than in 19. At any rate, I won't be rushing out to buy 25 as I'm sure that it is allot like 22. Maybe when it comes out for free again because the next version is coming out. Seems like a good bet.

Popular option. It's a reskin with a few DLCs thrown in.

They could certainly afford it now, I've wanted them to switch to the Ureal engine. Giants engine is dated, every time they release a new version, or game engines have taken big leaps forward, while Giants barely progresses.

The current engine and them having their own engine is good because it can do what they specifically need it to do. The PROBLEM here is that they refuse to improve the engine itself and rather just expand on existing concepts and mechanics that are already in the engine like adding more crops or brands. Which is why they do that is because its easier and they just want to make money. It sucks. Because they have no competition either.

As a new player this year, I'm shocked at how poor some of the assets are in this game.

No other developer comes close to Giants' level of stinginess, it is despicable. If only they invested a little more money into switching game engines. Who knows, their new releases might leave the ground for the first time since their inception!

Interesting video, just one ting to note about changing the Giants engine after I read a post on reddit around this topic. What would a changed engine mean for modding? I am afraid we would probably lose half of them if we made the shift.

Old Engine software and old graphics has been my number 1 concern as well. Like how and the hell do we have one of if not the most popular simulator game out there, and we’re running software designed in 2007, yes it’s been “updated”, but still the same core. Really need to upgrade to unreal 5 or something even better. FS25 will be the first one I’ve never preordered since I became aware of the game, not only not preordering it, but really have no intention of purchasing it, and honestly that makes me sad…come on giants. We are OVER logging, change the focus to graphics and other things, like mining or road work, anything but more logging…

when you realize that Giants Software originally wanted to be a game engine developer and that they made Farming Simulator to show off their prowess, a lot of things become a LOT clearer. Farm Sim is still a great series though

25 is a HUGE DISSAPOINTMENT !....again 😂

After the video snippet you showed of the guy saying they want to stay "in control" of their engine a lot makes sense to me now. Maybe I am reading too much into it but I have worked on software projects before where the Boss has originally created said piece of software a long time ago (in my case the late 90s), and it can lead to some irrational decisions in the "reinventing the wheel" vs "using an existing dependency" category, mainly because the software is the Bosses "baby" so to speak. If that is the case for GIANTS engine, then the only way FS can really improve is when this person leaves or stops interfering. Maybe too much speculation I know but I have no other way of explaining how they keep praising basic engine features like Parallax Occlusion Mapping* in FS22 and Fog/God Rays in FS25** as major features of the new titles. *Invented in 2005, used in AAA Games like Crysis from 2007 onward, part of unreal engine 4 which was released in 2014 **Was around since at least the 00s, literally standard in even smaller games since circa 2014

I 1000000% agree with everything you say.

To be honest I don't think you understand the complexity under the mods. It is literally LAW in many places that the version on Xbox and Playstation must be the same and I sincerely doubt either of those devices would manage to survive the kind of load that even a reasonable PC layout of mods would place upon their little processors. Remember that the consoles are greased up 4 year old laptops when they released and they only age further and further. I have a 2014 i7-4930k with 16gb of ram and a 2013 Radeon 7950 that can handle more graphics and mods than the latest xbonk and paystation can even load into memory. The primary processing load issue with farming simulator is the data processing of the display of the crops on the ground from layers of 32bit texture files used as both textures AND data structures. The game's primary game loop would be interfered with heavily with the addition of needless physics and the game doesn't need the rule-of-cool shit that most idiots scream for online like spintires' dirt Giants and the game were actually held back for a long time by their distributor and what IT was charging them and what deals IT was making. I did actually meet Stef online with another guy in an IRC chat at Auran (Trainz, in which I was published for several releases in the boxed sets) and discussed some features that Auran had in their engine and discussed the limitations of Auran's physics and aimed them at using the texture files as data structures since a LOT of public free 32bit data manipulation and interpretation systems existed. One of the things they were looking for was literally a feature Auran created that could display clones of a rendered tree in multiple locations with near zero increase in process load. The world and graphics and engines have moved on since then. The problem with people wanting slack fill loads is they don't realize that the videos they watch _STILL_ are not real-time physics but interpretations of rules. Giants does actually have a spill feature that aggravates a lot of people with front loaders and bucket loaders. There's no point in modeling a trailer loaded with 17 billion wheatcorns but I could see modeling by divisions a load shift or imbalance in the load with a 5x5 cell system that could change where the weight point of the trailer is located and make a mishandled load more likely to tip or drag in turns. Even spintire's physics aren't realistic. When was the last time your stuck vehicle slid sideways down a mild slope because the wheels were spinning?

I love Giants engine, you can even modify the FS 20 mobile version, as a modder myself I love it, great video, super info!

FS22 really was the same as FS19 imo just you have to buy all the vehicles again sure some minor tweaks but if they dont do minor tweaks they would run out of content.

ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-MbHkgbDpZ-U.html ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-AS6k1fFPIh0.html ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-wWxCoQwabzI.html this is for Farming Simulator 25. hopefully it will be nice. Also hosting a dedicated server using AMP Coders would be nice. they need to make a dedicated server exe or api idk how it's called. but not having to have the game open to host the server

Considering they want 103.99 for FS25 - Year 1 Bundle I will not be buying it. I bought all of the DLC's for FS22 and Im not sure why when I can get everything offered through mods. NGL I will probably get a "free" version when it releases unless it's on gamepass day 1 which I highly doubt

I knew ps was holding us back on xbox

It’s just a dlc not a new game. Unless they massively update the graphics and models

Man, I've been saying this for the last 2 games. I just get shouted down by fanboys. I love this series, but it basically makes no mechanical progress between editions. They are essentially just bringing the engine up to date.

While many of your points are valid, I think that the lack of a true competitor says a lot about the quality of the product. There have been others like Agricultural Simulator and Cattle and Crops, that had better graphics and physics, but those don't necessarily make a good game. A prime example was Agricaultural Simulator - Historical Farming (iirc) that had terrain deformation and manual attach nodes on equipment. It was a nightmare to play though. As far as using another engine, why overhaul a system that is working. If using another engine is a viable option, why have so few tried, and none succeded?

Uffff giants Fanboy will throw money at any sh1t giants release I saw this coming since the release of fs22

Truth is we get very little in new titles. I play the game since 2008 each title but you simply cannot repack 2,3 mods and call it new game like last 4 titles...

At the end of the day none of this matters. Mediocre sells so there is no pressure to improve. I want a detailed farming simulator, the market does not. FS19 was the last version I bought

interesting video and research. loved it

I'm going to be honest. This video seems to be a lot of poor research and ragebait (apart from the console mod problem). Graphics and deformation shouldn't be the priority, especially in Farming Simulator. You crave more realism, but in your gameplay, you don't use realism mods like manual attach. Unity was launched in 2005, but only for Mac, which was only 3% of the marketshare at the time. Game Engines gets recycled all the time. You could create a much more constructive and well researched video. There's a lot of problems with Giants and FS, like yearly passes that don't give all of the DLC's or legacy bugs that devs refuse to fix.

8:27 dumb take on the wheat. no studio would do that. It would bring any graphics card and processor to its knees to have that many singular meshes rendered and subject to physics at the same time.

My perspective only. I don’t care. Certainly FS 25 looks wonderful. I started playing on FS22 and have all the mods that I need to enjoy the game. I have the map/s that resonate with me and I can spend my time playing how I want. I agree, there are plenty of things that could be improved; but hey, I play with a controller and mouse, and if not for autoload; I would NEVER play. FS fills a gap and fill’s it perfectly. It is what it is and I like it.

Interesting points, takes, and footage. Thanks.

Very simple reason not all PC mods are on consoles. Consoles do not have the power to run higher detail PC mods.

Definatly think the paid DLC released by Giants doesn't hold up against the free mods available. Do I think Giants is bad and ripping players off? No, could they release better content, Yes. do I agree how they sell their bundles? No, I've had some trouble not being able to get the right content on Steam after buying the wrong version and had to buy it directly from Giants as Steam purchases of FS22 are now blocked. But I still love the game and have a blast playing. It's a comapny, making money is their business, but do we really need a new game each 2 years? Or just better content and game improvements? Sims 4 and ETS2 / ATS have been around for quite sometime and just expanding and improving (mostly). I've only played the game for about six months now and I'm not ready yet to abondon FS22 for a new version, I think the game still holds up, it could be a lot better, but that would also mean a higher end graphics card. So I'm pretty happy with everything the current game already offers,

Would be fair to compare FS series to ETS 2, which also, successful, but lacking in many aspects compared to modern big studio works. But then again, would you rather have Ubisoft or EA developing this game? I doubt, as those big fat companies will dump the product the first quarter it wouldn't sell enough.

I think Farm Sim is a fabulously successful game. The first one I got was FS 13 and I own every PC version since then. I can't wait for FS 25! I think some folks want rtx 4090 level graphics which would easily cut out three quarters or more of the gamers that have made Farm Sim such a huge successful game. As far as Sony and MS not allowing script mods...that's not a thing Giants controls at all so I really don't get the grief pointed against them. Take that to Sony and MS where it belongs.

who are the people out there like myself who loves playing Farming Simulator.

Nice video, i honestly don't know since I'm not a programmer if moddint community would survive on an ipotetichal switch to UE engine..

Just out of interest have you ever used Giants engine to make mods? Have you ever used Unreal Engine? There's a major reason Giants stick with their own engine - its relatively easy to use and people can relatively easily make maps or other mods with it. The learning curve with Unreal engine is steep to say the very least. If you want lots of nice maps made for FS their engine is easy and intuitive enough that you don't need a ton of experience in game development to use it. So yeah FS would look amazing with Unreal engine but it would be closed to a lot of people. Its a mute point anyway since Giants have said many, many times that Unreal Engine is fundamentally unsuited to the sort of game FS is. Now we've seen it in action FS25 looks pretty decent anyway. Its not a AAA game and people shouldn't expect it to be a AAA game. Its impressive enough for what it is.

Honestly, I'm both hyped and not for the new release. I've gotten so much enjoyment out of FS22 so I'm hoping they can just expand on it and I'll pay my yearly subscription to keep playing the new version. (Yes I know you don't 'have' to pay that but like I said, I feel I'm getting my moneys worth ..... so far)

For my self I don't buy into the hype that Giants and you tube personality's project. It will take about 6 months to work out the bugs. and I don't like the direction that FS is going from just farming to manufacturing. Giants base maps despite the hype suck compared to map makers that come later. Giants have nerfed the dairy side of farming and caring of livestock in general. Like you said Giants have no competition I hope that the American farmer game for cell phones can someday be a PC game and leave Giants in the dust!

"ALL the cars get damaged in racing games " no they don't. Why aren't there more products in the game when manufacturers are waiting? Console restrictions, that's well known. Especially when it comes to storage on the older generation Mods.... you gave the answer yourself and unless you got some devs and testers unemployed at your house, that won't change

There isnt much you can do in terms of improving the Graphics imo, to switch to say unreal engine, it would probably take them Forever and it would likely run Even worse with higher requirement for entry to the Game. The Game already Runs Bad enough on Most Maps above 1x, and switching to Unreal or other options would lose them Money and would make Maps run Even worse. Fs25 Looks great and Theres no real reason to complain about it, it’s just a nothing Burger

3:40 am i the only one who sees this?

They were moders not farmer

The video title is incorrect, expressing your opinions does not constitute "truth". Oversimplifying the structure of a business does not mean you know all of the in's and out's of how it operates, you cannot possibly understand how a particular business operates if you've had no involvement with said business. And you can criticize their strategy of releasing a new version every 2 years and compare their game engine with other game engines, but the "truth" (as your title suggests) is that Giants is doing very well, they cater to a certain audience, and what they are doing is working well for them. A 3.7/5 rating on Xbox is very good if you consider how toxic the review culture is on that platform. The Steam review numbers are much more accurate for their games.

Farm8ng sim is one of those games that will fade into nothingness the moment someone makes a better one on UE5 they could move to the engine, it is free after all but they dont, they're going to charge you a tripple a price for a game running on a 2013 game engine, people mock bethesda for having an old engine bit my god... farming sim takes the cake for incompetent developers.

this the history of farm Sim say nothing about 25 click bait

First off, really not sure where you're going with this. Secondly, companies, all are in competition but, in this particular genre of gaming, let's face it, there really isn't much competition against Giants. Now, as for console player issues... that's just the problem with consoles period, either upgrade or "suck it up" and deal with your limitations. If you look at the video trailer, many textures have improved and yes, I'm looking forward to seeing what FS25 will bring to the table. But, there's something not being touched on but only the was mentioned by your video short clips... brands. Giants as with any other company has to abide by what the other "brand" companies want and expect. Believe it or not but, both sides of this coin pays each other now, rather which one makes more profit, that's usually the game developer. However, @georgemeyer850 has hit the nail on the head per say.