The TSR2 Story 

but the inventor didn't go to Eton

The Avro should never have been cancelled

@@lewisbrand sadly..Corrupt egotistical spineless politicians were the Arrows demise..It continues today with the current Canadian government and the F35 fiasco

Not circumstances- politics

No it was killed by the crap British economy of the post-war era. The politicians just put it out if its misery.

@@neiloflongbeck5705 No it was scrapped due to the development of missiles and anti air craft defenses - The TSR 2 became the Tornado as it was apparent that the TSR could not do all that it was required of it.

@@sichere and yet the F-111 was still developed to meet the same operational requirements? Your statement gave me the best laugh I've had this morning. The Tornado programme came out of the Anglo-French Variable-Geometry programme. A brief timeline of events: 27/9/1964 - 1st flight of the TSR-2 15/10/1964 - Labour win the General Election 25/10/1964 - balance of payments deficit for 1964 announced to be £800 Million, also announced details of the government's long-term strategy for dealing with the balance of pyments deficit 12/11/1964 - Budget Day - foreign exchange markets satrt to lose confidence in government's ability to matain the exchange of $2.80 to £1 23/11/1964 - Bank of England increases interest rate from 5% to 7% to stop further loses of foriegn currency and bullion reserves - attempt failed 25/11/1964 - Rowley Cromer (Govenor of the Bank of England) secures a $3 Billion credit from other central banks - the Pound remained weak through December and further under selling occured during March 31/3/1965 - final flight of the TSR-2 6/4/1965 - Budget Day - cancellation of the TSR-2 announced 15/7/1965 - James Callaghan (Chancellor of the Exchequor) announces that there was no need to introduce new measures to strengthen the British economy despite the published reserves and trade figures showing no recovery week ending 24/7/1964 - heavy selling of the Pound on the markets 27/7/1965 - Further measures announced to reduce public expenditure, tighten credit and to make Exchange Control more effective 3/8/1965 - Reserve figures published showing £50 million had beeb lost, but it was also know that West Germany had supplied the UKwith £41 million pound meaning the losses were closer to £100 million pounds 10/8/1965 - Trade figures for July 1965 show a deficit of only £5 million, stabilising the markets but not solving anything, the next 2 years had periods of runs on the Pound due to economic uncertainty due to the general election on 31/3/1966 and the budgets past after Labour were returned to power and other economic woes including another Arab-Israeli war and a docks strike 9/11/1967 - Bank of England raises interest rate but the Pound continues to fall in value 17/11/1967 - After further heavy selling of the Pound and no further loans being forthcoming Harold Wilson announces that the exchange rate would fall to $2.40 to £1 a devaluation of 14% 18/11/1967 - Devaluation Day Now tell me how the UK could have afforded such a high price aircraft without the benefit of foreign sales?

@@neiloflongbeck5705 You seem to have no idea of financial institutions or how much money the Government has at it's disposal if needed so here is a clue ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE--zT9pa5AOuE.html The Government did not want to continue white elephant projects and this is one of the reasons the UK scrapped it's ballistic missile projects too. Lord Mountbatten had far more sense and feel for the situation and coincidently the British had the F111 in their inventory via the back door courtesy of the Australians. The TSR 2 was the wrong plane at the wrong time.

@@neiloflongbeck5705 @ 1:14:35 I rest my case

No, a better comparison is the Su-24 Fencer, which in its initial design had similar wing platform as the TSR2. It soon dropped that design and switched to one that matched that being used by the F111, which was built to meet a similar requirement to GOR.339.

I agree entirely, I'm afraid Uncle Dickie combined with the MOD had far too much influence.

Yeah, you can all get together and share a box of tissues.

Take the Tornado, multiply every performance metric by at least two and deliver it two decades earlier at a fraction of the price and you have the TSR2.

The Arrow was cancelled as its role of intercepting Soviet heavy bombers was deemed to be less important as the future of the Soviet heavy bomber was considered to be over in favour of Soviet missiles. The failing British economy crippled the TSR2 and the other projects cancelled at the same meeting. Just Google "Sterling in Crisis 1964-1967" if you want to find out what happened and why. Nothing to do with the Americans.

@@neiloflongbeck5705 The TSR-2’s fate was sealed on that trip by an unofficial deal between Healey and U.S. Secretary of Defense Robert McNamara: Britain would cancel the TSR-2 and buy the F-111, McNamara’s pet fighter-for-all-reasons, in exchange for U.S. backing of the IMF loan. “Britain had little option but to comply with America’s conditions and cancel the TSR-2. That is an indisputable fact,it had nothing to do with the economy of the time,it was more to do with American influence and the introduction of American bases being established here in the UK under the pretense of being RAF bases,i.e. RAF Menwith hill,RAF fylingdales.Unlike you,I do not get my facts from google,I get my facts from real people.

The Avro Arrow was cancelled because the RCMP discovered that Russian spies had infiltrated Avro and were stealing the design of the Arrow, although the Diefenbaker government cited cost as the reason for the cancellation. What a fabulous aircraft. There's probably also some credence to the rumors that the American government wanted Canada to "buy American". However, the Russian spying operation story is not apocryphal - the Russians admitted as much after the fall of the Soviet Union, as did the government of Canada.

@@tomdis8637 are you meaning the spy called Gideon, who the Soviets jailed in 1955 after the Canafisns doubled him or someone else?

@@neiloflongbeck5705 Apparently there were several Soviet agents involved.

Steve Mumbling No,it only broke the speed off sound once.

@@GSP21 Thanks Tony. Perhaps there's more to the story. If it wasn't meeting the specs and the budget was blowing out it makes sense to can it.

Steve Mumbling They kept asking the aircraft to do more & more spec wise, and as I put on another TSR2 site- From a test pilot-it was like flying a big lightning.There is somewhere on the internet a full appraisal off it.Worth a read.

@@GSP21 I had heard the big lightning comparison before. I'll take a look at the full appraisal. As a kid I had a model of it, and have seen the one at Duxford. Beautiful looking aircraft. It was very slab-sided with a large vertical fin so it would have had very poor stealth capability. But I think in those days it was all about flying under the radar. I always wondered why it was white.

@@stevemumbling7720 It would had met it's specs (Mach 2.4) , if the flight testing had carried on , that's for sure .. it reached Mach 1.3 with one reheat under not full power during moving-flight (flight 14 of 24) from Boscombe Down to Warton ... Grets

I am so sorry that congress and the people in the USA were feed by General Dynamics a pipe dream. About F-111 13 of these crashed 1 of into the water and do you think 10.5 million a copy Besides 596 were built that's it. So was worth it not at all answer No!!!!!

@Firsthgyhgyhuy Lastujhujhuj which bit?

@Firsthgyhgyhuy Lastujhujhuj then you had better go and look at the original Su24 design, which shared the TSR2 wing platform. The flight profile was published on page 33 of November 2019 Aeroplane magazine. Now what do you think is drivel?

If the Tories hadn't fuck the economy up so badly that just after the 1964 election it was announced that are trade deficit was double what had been expected at £800 million.

Very high at a guess

We were messing things up long before joining the EU.

@@neiloflongbeck5705 REALLY!? :-)

Yes just look at the financial crises of the 1960s for example. This series of crises hit the UK at about the time of the TSR2's first flight. They were the real reason for the cancellation not the US pushing the F111.

@@neiloflongbeck5705 the way I read Marc's first comment was that we WERE messing things up before we joined the EU, and are now free to mess them up (on our own) again, after a few decades of cocking things up while in the EU.

@@paulqueripel3493 yes it does say that, and I was agreeing with him that we were fucking things up before joining the EU as well.

Corbyn is the most maligned politician in uk history. Look what we got instead - 12 years of lies, incompetence and blatent corruption .

They were small for reasons .

Yes it is only you.

@@awatt No it's not. The EE Lightning was a dead end for very much the same reason ( albeit in a different framework , because it was a point to point interceptor ). What is the point of a tactical supersonic bomber that needs inflight refueling to even hit it's target, many times, let alone return ? I think the World is starting to think ( I know they are ) about the "stealth" ( hopefully ) characteristics of the AWACS and fuel supply aircraft as much as the strike ones. There is much money and research currently being expended on air to air rearming for example.

@@awatt oh and without being too obtuse, where the heck do you think the performance comes from ? I don't care how powerful your car is, if I can catch it up after a couple of miles because it has run out of fuel.

@@lewisbrand ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-c9fZX6z_smo.htmlsi=oopCBpvb7dCDFL1_ 28.30

What the Canadian wing of the British Avro company

Way better interceptor maybe. TSR2 was as it's name says. Tactical Strike and Reconnaissance. And was Way better at that. The two countries had world beating aircraft which if used as a package along with other assets would have been devastating to an opponent.