The Tudors - Catherine Parr saves herself 

I'd rather be Anne of Cleves than this one, though.

​@Spencer Frank Clayton yeah she actually got on his good side and was even given her own estate or something. Played good cards with Henry too. So it's not like he just outright hated them all. Humans throughout history tend to be fairly complex in their decision making. Also the jousting accident certainly made things worse

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 True. I'd brag on as long as I lived of how I survived Henry's vicious ways.

@@Nebulasecura Catherine of Aragon and Anne of Cleaves were foreign princesses in their own right. King Henry couldn't kill them unless he wanted to provoke war with their powerful families and their allies. He also had to treat AoC well because he couldn't afford to offend her brother.

To be fair, Catherine of Aragon and Anne Boleyn couldn’t have done anything to stop him, except for having a male child.

he couldn't kill Anne of Cleaves the same way he couldnt kill Catherine...lest he want a war

The eight wives and their fate: Divorced Beheaded Died Divorced Beheaded Survived

@@dhinds5927 wtf?

What happened is he had called for her arrest and by the time the next morning came he had forgotten so when they came to get her she was able to beg and plead her case and he sent them away also Luckily for Parr he was in failing health getting sicker by the day so his mind wasn't all there and he really did forget and she was able to convince him that she wasnot challenging him but trying to learn from him which fed his ego ever so huge as it still was

Period.

She can walk on fire without hurting herself

Catherine Parr was by far the smartest and shrewdest of all his wives. Anne Boleyn might have been more educated and talented, but she was hotheaded ... And list her head in the BG athai . But this lady - Catherine Parr not only got out of a tight spot where one wrong word would make her the third queen to be beheaded, but she went on to be his trusted consort and thus she outlived him and marry her beau . Another smart queen was Anne of Cleaves, she too made quite a career out of her shortlived marriage.

No I imagine it was finding her 4th husband with his hand up very young Elizabeth's dress was.

@@janetothen2583 She sure didn't help the situation by holding Elizabeth down so he could "tickle" her. She only got mad when she found him molesting her alone.

@@HorsesIC a tickle fight is something much different, I have 5kids between 21 and 4 and we have tickle fights. I also do it for my nieces, nephews, neighbours etc. What she saw as loving banter, then finding out it absolutely wasn't would devastate anyone.

​@@janetothen2583 She is also alleged to have held her down whilst her husband *cut her dress* from her. Who was 14 at the time. *Something* must have happened, because Elizabeth was quickly removed from their care after the incident. It seems likely that she was at least aware of her husbands interest in Elizabeth, which was quite scandalous. Its also worth noting that Seymour (Who, yes, Was Edward Tudor's Uncle, and brother of Edward Seymour, the Lord Protector and Regent to Edward Tudor) did attempt to marry Elizabeth after Parr's death and when that fell through, attempted an open rebellion. He was arrested after trying to break into the Kings Bedchamber with a loaded pistol, and his association with Elizabeth was so great that she too was arrested. Whilst one might construe her interactions with Elizabeth as innocent, her husband's interest almost certainly wasn't innocent. His intentions to her were fairly clear, and only grew clearer when Parr died in childbirth a year after Henry VIII. And it seems rather unlikely that Elizabeth was naive to that. The details of his behaviour came to light in this period when they were both arrested, as it was assumed that she had conspired with Seymour. At which point she displayed massive intellect and logic, and successfully managed to extradite herself and her servants from his downfall. Its not *impossible* that she did in fact conspire with Seymour, and some have speculated that she, Parr, and Seymour were engaged a polyamorous relationship - though certainly one that we'd find exceptionally inappropriate and predatory by today's standards. There is no hard evidence, but there's plenty of rather sketchy looking behaviour and circumstantial evidence that isn't a good look.

To be fair though Catherine Parr came at the end of the King's life, after he had already produced an heir. Anne Boleyn had to deal with pressures and circumstances much different and more challenging than Catherine Parr. Both, though were incredibly smart and talented.

@@alexisgrammer6629 While that is true, Anne did make statements that could have been construed as treasonous.

Anne and Howard teen both were unable to meet the King personally before arrest, that was her advantage,otherwise she was also killed

It's a fact that Anne thinks on emotions while Catherine thinks it all through and while being cool and calm. That's what made her survive.

@@alexisgrammer6629 By the time Henry married Parr, he was already really sick and weak and needed someone he could trust to take care of him. And maybe produce a spare heir if possible.

And then died having his baby 18 months later. Poor Catherine, she just couldn't catch a break.

Didn’t her husband try to seduce Elizabeth?

@@erinchambers9 Yes, Thomas was always trying to get close to Elizabeth..

And was her downfall. Marrying for love was her downfall.

@@di3486 Poor Catherine. Married the first two times at the order of her parents, married for the third time at the order of the king, then finally when she gets to choose her husband for herself, she dies as a result of birthing their child. She couldn't catch a break, poor lady.

Only Anne of Cleaves survived Henry before her. 1/5 is terrible odds. She made it 1/3 with her own tact and abilities(and Henry being on the way out).

Supremely intelligent. She was the first woman ever to publish in English under her own name and went on to write multiple books.

If she was extremely intelligent she would never have tried Henry at all

@@jessicaphillips4542 Feel free to send me a list of the books you've authored!

@@jessicaphillips4542 She had no choice. In fact, Catherine Parr didn't even want to marry him and loved someone else. She even wanted to marry him, but the king had already set her sights on her and she couldn't say no. Besides, her family wanted her to marry him.

She was also the first english woman

When your very life is at stake, there's no such thing as "respect my achievements" or "i'm better than you", there is just you and your choice to live or get executed.

Is it because she was a women? Would you care if he would be a men?

@@Zodroo_Tint Of course not, because patriarchy blablabla something something immapoorvictim dybadyba feelsorryformeee wah wah You know, the usual refrain.

@@Zodroo_Tint well I don’t think anyone deserves to be treated this way so no it just because she’s a woman but it have something to do who she was a person again she was the most influential theological minds in Europe at the time and had become so despite all the obstacles her gender presented for the time

@@alrune8Catherine Parr as shown in this video based on historical records of events didn’t believe in living life passively and neither do I. Sometimes we have limited options (or at good ones) because the choices we have available to us. However, self pity is generally unproductive in such situation. We should just try to do what we can for ourselves and others better. Be well.

And, before bullets\firearms were even invented! Waaaaaayyyyyyyy better than any hero\heroine in Matrix.

@@j.b.9581 matchlock muskets were available during king Henry viii’d reign.

marriage was so different then

Silver Kitty I don't know recent trial saw ex wife had left great big knife husband's side of the bed Think AH rings a bell Some looney spouses those times and now it seems

And then to later die a Painful death giving birth to her Last husband's child after discovering that he'd been Sexually harassing one of her Favourite Stepchildren. Frankly, Catherine Parr deserved to be born in a Better time period than the Tudor era.

Who wouldn't? I bet everyone in Henry's court was always on edge, meassuring their words way more than is usual with their monarch just to keep their heads.

@@kezia-lemonthorne2507 we, ALL of us today, would do the SAME THING, in order to keep our head on its place......

It's not even about being a woman, it's about whether or not you want to live or you prefer to get executed. Catherine only knew that death was too high a price to pay for any ideology, especially one that has already spelt doom for many others, men included. So she took the high road, which was also the smart road.

See I think she is right in what she said, if only she were genuine, but I’m discerning to become a Nun, so this level of humility and obedience is expected of me

Actually + not all. He didn’t kill her mind at all. She knew enough to keep quiet for a little while.She is the first published female English author. After Henry’s death, when it was safe to do so in her stepson’s reign she published one or two Protestant books herself.

No he didn't kill her mind. She saved herself and her ladies. After Henry's death Catherine was free to practice her Protestant worship and published Lamentation of a Sinner.

@@brontewcat The first known book in English by a woman was Revelations of Divine Love by Julian of Norwich.

@@jatinsandis6983 Yes, and there is also Margery of Kempe. But were their works published? I think publishing came about after the printing press came about. I thinking publishing means making work more widely available than a few manuscripts.

@@brontewcat But unfortunately nowhere on the internet her name is found but the one i copy pasted to u above.

I think that Henry never loved any of his wives he just wanted a legitimate son. Which is ironic because his sole legitimate son died as a teenager.

@@andriagivens5815 It's very more ironic that his most ignored and least wanted child - Elizabeth - grew up to be the one of the greatest English monarchs !

@@andriagivens5815 By this stage of his life, that dude could no more have fathered a child than the wine goblet he was drinking out of could.

@@andriagivens5815 While possibly true, there are some scholars who believe, from historical accounts and his own actions, the only one of his wives he ever truly loved was Jane Seymour.

@@grayden4138 1. because she gave him a son 2. because she died before she could anger him in any way. By dying while serving his greatest desire, she became the embodiment of what he wanted in a woman: someone whose life's purpose was only to serve him and his wants. She didn't live long enough to disappoint him in any way, so she didn't get devalued or discarded. 3. Henry never loved anyone but himself

The creator meant for the series to be entertainment, not bigraphical.

@@gidzmobug2323 When the historical Tudors are involved, their actual history is more entertaining than anything a fabulist could concoct.

@@cathryncampbell8555 Outside of the historical inaccuracies the tiny little fellow they cast as Henry was the worst. I always wondered if he was a kid of the producer or something since everyone else was perfectly cast. 😂

@@AlexandriaSWest Oh I agree! The late, great Keith Michell was my favourite Henry (in "The Six Wives of H8"), followed closely by James Robertson Justice (in "The Sword & the Rose") & Charlton Heston (in "The Prince & the Pauper"). Charlton Heston's Cardinal Richelieu (in the Richard Lester "3 Musketeers") is likewise a masterpiece, btw.

I think Seymour was pretty good at it too, only she died ...

Sadly she died giving birth to her next husband's baby a few years later. Anne of Cleves was the truly lucky one

@@chloephillips1381 honestly good for Anne

@@babsgrayson8432 even Anne didn’t have an easy go of it. Mary stripped Anne of everything when she suspected that Anne was helping Elizabeth

@@cherrytraveller5915 they all put up with Henry better than I would've. They each has their own strengths that enabled them to survive as queen in different ways.

isn't it strange the whole country was telling him that he was sane and doing the right thing in the disposing of his wives ...and the women mad

@@silverkitty2503 The women did not have much choice if their ambitious families pushed them and who would say no to the most powerful man in the land who was also a serial killer. He had many people executed, as well as some of his wives. Thomas More, Thomas Cromwell, The Duke of Surrey, Margaret Pole, Countess of Salisbury (daughter of the Duke of Clarence). Cardinal Wolsey would have been for the chop but he died on his way to see Henry and many 'rebels' and 'heretics'..

@@silverkitty2503 well they kinda had to kiss ass or they would go to the chopping block. Nobody was safe. If a king can execute his wife on false charges just because she didn't give him a son, what does that mean for members of the court who say no to him? One actually did, Thomas Moore. We all know how that turned out.....

Probably syphillis

Can you find the source on this interaction? I find Thomas Cranmer’s involvement fascinating in this moment. I never gave him much thought in history but perhaps I was mistaken.

@@-keren- Oh, Cranmer was extremely involved. Like Katherine, he knew how to stay on Henry's good side even when their beliefs were different. Cranmer pretty much built the Church of England under Henry's very nose without Henry recognizing just how much further the reformation had gone than he intended. And Crammer was involved in every single marriage and divorce: as Archbishop he had to be. The dance it took for him to stay alive when other courtiers, like Thomas More and Thomas Cromwell, went to the block primarily for favouring a former wife or not encouraging a new one properly - Cranmer's surviving all six wives and Henry himself was a miracle of diplomatic strategy (I don't mean he actually survived Anne of Cleves; I think she may have still been alive when Cranmer was executed under Mary; I just mean he survived her ousting as queen along with all the rest.) And the political power as well as church power he wielded even beyond the grave through the reinstatement of the Book of Common Prayer and Homiles in Elizabeth I's government was more influential in the development of England even down to the modern age than many realize. The complex interweave of church and state back then is fascinating in terms of political power and influence: I'm actually writing a series on it.

@@-keren- I'm sorry, but I got no notice of your question. I have many, many books of Tudor history, & I'm afraid I no longer remember where I read this. I also read about the strong stand Cranmer took when Henry wanted to water down some of the reform parts of the Reformation. He basically told the despot that whatever it was could not be done in that wise. And Henry backed down! An amazing man. I've always grieved that he didn't follow his wife & children to the Continent when Mary I ascended the throne. He must have heard the clock ticking. Instead, he stayed & thrust his right hand, which had signed the recantation of his true beliefs, directly into his pyre, & watched it burn. 🔥

@@cmm5542 I'll look forward to it. You are very well-informed! I am a Roman Catholic & I have read his beautiful Book of Common Prayer from cover to cover. I adore it. 📖

@@h.calvert3165 It is beautiful. I am proud to be Anglican and that Cranmer didn't throw out all the church traditions and beliefs the Catholic Church had valued and preserved for centuries over their reform disagreements. I studied the Reformation for my master's degree; it's sad how many people died because they couldn't appreciate that we don't all have to worship the exact same way or take the exact same approach to reforms. As much as I appreciate our history, inter-denominational dialogue is one thing I am so relieved we do better nowadays!

Anne of Cleves had one advantage in that she was a foreign princess. Henry would not have dared execute her, not that she gave him any reason to.

Yes. The way Henry treated Catherine and Anne was unprecedented. Catherine had plenty of examples.

Catherine of Aragon was permitted to serve as Regent for a while. Henry's upset with her was that there was no legitimate son after 20+ years of marriage. Catherine refused the traditional means of declaring the marriage over (retiring to a convent).

Katherine Parr had been around the court and had seen enough to make her wary. She or her mother had been one of Catherine of Aragon's ladies. Katherine had also seen the way the Princess Mary was treated--Henry had been indulgent to his intelligent and pretty daughter, but when she took her mother's side, he spurned her, treated her abominably, refused to let her see her beloved mother (just spite on his part).

And sadly, men can always resort to brutality, violence, oppression and murder, should a woman stand for herself and assert her independence or intelligence too much. This is the tragedy of so many men, throughout history; they are so volatile and weak in spirit, and they cannot stomach a woman that won't submit to them, so they must stamp them out completely. How strong is a man if he must have weaklings all around him, to make him feel stronger?

You're right, but things are DRASTICALLY different now than they are then. Many women around the world now no longer have to 'play the part.' As a woman though I couldn't imagine living in those times where you had to hide your intelligence like that. It wasn't just Catherine Parr that was wise from the past, but Elizabeth as well. She certainly chose not to get married during her long reign because of not only what happened with her own mother, but with all the other wives too.

And she had her own money after her husband died too. She was so close to having a great life and marrying the man she loved, but she couldn't turn down a king.

@@hpr2008 She marry him, then died giving birth to his children less than 2 years later.

@@princess7jasmine They should've had more time together. How terrifying to be Queen to a man who's had most of his other wives sent away or killed. And she had to be extra careful because of her religion. Not that Thomas was a real prize either.

@@princess7jasmine Only one child was born: a daughter. No one seems to know what happened to her, though. After her mother's death and father's execution, the baby was sent to the Duchess of Suffolk (as a ward). No one knows what became of the daughter beyond that.

I envy you so much... *starts plotting a charge of treason on you*

It’s free online

Shit! Everyone around him!

Like King Donald .... But Better Educated and more Talented!

@@jamesalexander5623 Add in sneaky and corrupt and you have obama- Biden

​@@jamesalexander5623 Like king dumber than a box of fucking rocks, Trump!

GOT drew much of inspiration from source from real life 😊

Those are the Kings that people put up with the most, the nice ones usually get betrayed

Because they do not have the courage to stand up for what is right or against what is wrong (in this case) and think for themselves.

Another example: North Korea.

Actually he seems like Maegor I Targaryen "The cruel" he too took several wives because he wanted a son but all his children were stillborn or miscarried and his last wife survived him

So exciting.... I can be arrested for having a miscarriage. A few thousand miles away there's a place where women are beaten for smiling too much.

And correct

Now that makes me wish that Diana Rigg had gotten to play Katherine Parr at some point.

Can you blame her? He divorced two wives and beheaded two more!

This is the worst example. This discussion is intellectual. The man is a king. The time period is one where the law is as the king wills it. A typical example today is your woman nagging you about the trash, or if a man is financially abusive then that can start an argument.

the man we're talking about is henry the 8th. she had to submit or else she would've be sent to the chopping block !

Guy had a 54 inch waist line, could barely move, and probably smelled like a New York alley….. …creative license has been taken often in depictions of Henry.

Yeah this is just the wrong actor for him. Who tf dud the casting?

JRM with his Cork accent becoming more pronounced with each episode (Im from Cork 😅)

@@aegonthedragon7303 I envision "Fat Basterd" ( from Austin Powers ) without the Accent!

The show is extremely inaccurate with history and appearances and portraying some people as allies or enemies when they weren't irl They didnt portray Henry as his appearance as at that time he was severely obese, could barely walk and his ulcer stunk worsened by the way he tied his stockings so tightly to show his calves as it would have reduced the show's appeal. Anne of Cleaves was portrayed as the ugly wife because Henry being Henry disguised as a peasant snuck into her bedchamber and she screamt calling him an ugly man.Henry was insulted that as it was a massive blow to his ego. The portrait was made by Hans Holbien renowned for his accuracy and Hans would have lost his head if it was inaccurate. The fact Henry kept him on as court painter proves it was accurate. If the show portrayed Henry as what he behaved irl and tried to romanticise it there would have been massive backlash for trying to romantise a stalker and rapist. He stalked Anne and ruined her reputation which at that time was ruining her forever as the only way for a woman to financially secure herself was a good marriage. With a reputation in shatters and nobles knowing marrying her would mean Henry's wrath Anne was ruined. She even quit her job as a lady in waiting, a extremely prestigious position at that time and went home to Hever Castle but Henry went to 'visit' a castle nearby and stalked her from there. With her reputation ruined, she was forced to marry Henry. To people calling her seducing Henry, it was impossible to say NO to a king yet she tried for a long time but lost. There are historical records a letter from Henry to Anne in which was written you are a deer I am a hunter you cannot escape me. So it makes sense the show portrayed Henry inaccurately. Do you really think ot would have been have a hit if they portrayed Henry as ugly and as a stalker and a rapist. No it would not have

I don’t get it though. She had saved herself, he had forgiven her, therefore he had dropped all ideas of arresting her and having her executed or whatever, right…? So why did he not say ‘yes, rescind my orders to arrest her tomorrow’? Does that mean he was still having her arrested the next day?

@@meganchristinevincencciaki5081 He didn't rescind his order because he wanted to put the frighteners on Catherine and keep her in check. He also did it to show his authority and indignation at the officers who came to arrest the Queen, who were not aware that the couple had been reconciled. Basically at this point in his life, Henry was quite sociopathic and enjoyed everyone marching to his drum. It was also a way of showcasing his majesty without compromising his integrity. If he defends Catherine in public, it makes him look magnanimous also.

@@meganchristinevincencciaki5081 basically everything jmiller05 said. I would like to add that I believe Catherine liked the bishop who wanted her dead. Henry wanted to show her that the bishop was really not her friend by going through with the arrest, pretending it was an act of defiance on the bishop’s part as opposed to an order by Henry. Shortly after, he pardoned the bishop from his court and was able to do so without any protest from his wife. I’m really not sure if the arrest attempt the following day actually happened in reality, though. It might just be dramatization. I’ll have to do some research. Historical fact vs. historical fiction can fall into gray areas.

@@edwardfitzhugh7547 But Bishop Gardner was corrupt, he was embelezzing from the king, he was in charge of secret abbey's that the King was trying to dissolve, but instead of transferring the funds to the king's exchequer like he's supposed to do Bishop Gardner was keeping the funds for himself, in fact Edward Seymour's wife points this out when she notices an arrest warrant is sitting on Gardener's desk.

@@MsWiccanpriestess you are correct. I had forgotten that.

Earl of Pembroke en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_of_Pembroke

Decapitation en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decapitation

He was already a misogynistic pig before the accident.

I have read her book. It is quite good, & very sincerely pious. 📕

Even though there is a lot of exaggerated dramatization in the show, I don’t think they would have completely changed the story and killed her off LOL. I knew she was safe, I was just curious how it was going to play out on Showtime.

If you know anything about Henry then you would know she was probably safe as long as she kept her wits together and backed down. Henry was a coward. If he had decided to get rid of someone he would disappear and not be around when they were arrested. The fact he summoned her to him meant he was giving her a chance.

Divorced, beheaded, died Divorced, beheaded, *survived*

@@nicoletrudell2065 Actually Divorced Beheaded Died (in childbirth) Divorced Beheaded Died (in childbirth). Anne of Cleves was the true survivor, because Catherine Parr only outlived Henry by 18 months or so.

@@brontewcat True, but I think their point is, she survived *Henry*

Yes! They're Called Right-Wing Christian Republicans! .... Yeah, I went there!

Hello 👋 how’re you going?

He signed the warrant--but sent the Lord Chancellor packing later (the video is on here somewhere).

He was setting the queen up for a test. The following day, they came to arrest her, causing her to almost have a heart attack. The king angrily sent them away and all was well. This was a way for the king to further affirm her newfound belief that he is not to be messed with because he will indeed punish her like all the others, and it was a way of putting her against the bishop whom she admired but Henry needed her against him (he was the one who requested the queen be tried for heresy in the first place and started the investigation).

no he said "resend".

His appearance definitely wasn't. Henry had red hair (as did his daughter Elizabeth--the sandy, light red rather than Titian.. Mary had more sandy hair,. This is going by the surviving portraits; they may not be totally accurate, but he definitely did not have dark hair. And Katherine Parr wasn't a glamorous blonde. She may have had darker hair, again judging by her portrait. She was in her early thirties, I think (and twice widowed), when Henry married her..

At this point in time The Pain in Henry VIII's leg had become so bad that he was self medicating with a mixture of Crushed Pearls and Lead. That would have definitely damaged his vocal chords in my opinion.

In the show, at least, he’s staging a scare tactic performance. He’s going to go ahead and have his men attempt to arrest her. Then he will scream at them and tell them to beat it. By doing this, this does two things: 1) Show his wife not to ever try to cross him because he won’t hesitate, 2) To show his men who’s boss because some of them like to cross him, as well. Watch the next scene, Catherine Parr’s arrest, and you’ll see what I mean.

We're not proud of him but all countries have had bad rulers. We're proud of his daughter Elizabeth for being one of the greatest monarchs in history, and our royal family today is from a different dynastic family altogether so we don't have to base our national pride on a ruler from over 400 years ago!

He wanted to give Catherine’s enemies a good tongue-lashing as a show of strength and power. That’s why he didn’t rescind the order.

Actually didn’t happen in reality. Added for dramatic purposes. But on the show, Henry went ahead and had his men come to arrest her, but he flipped out on them (playing as if he was surprised) when they showed up, and he sent them away. This was a tactic he used to scare Catherine into full submission, plus it was a way of showing them all who the boss was and not to cross him.

I think he didn't remember, probably already had dementia

Those figures are grossly exaggerated!