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The TWO LARGEST Sports Venues Cause the Most TRAFFIC in Cities Skylines! 

Biffa Plays Indie Games
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Biffalo Countea: Designing a beautiful Sport Park with the 2 Largest Sports Venues is fraught with danger! But we dive right in. Enjoy😀
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7 сен 2024

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Комментарии : 296   
@RobZebedee
@RobZebedee Год назад
I think the paths around the stadiums can be joined with the extra ones you put in to link it all up.
@zofferz0
@zofferz0 Год назад
It can
@CallmeKenneth-tb1zb
@CallmeKenneth-tb1zb Год назад
Fun fact: The 4 Lane road with Wide Side Walks _and_ Grass/Trees actually has a narrower sidewalk than the standard road, because the grass/trees take up so much room.
@theorixlux
@theorixlux Год назад
If I come from a planet of organisms that walk on tree lines, then this statement would be false if and only if a sidewalk is a place where organisms walk along vehicular traffic because pavement is blasphemous Edit: political correctness
@bossfight6125
@bossfight6125 Год назад
Btw there is a stadium metro station what you can implement in your stadium district, it would fit better and you could also utilize the look of the new metros
@dmore
@dmore Год назад
I don't know if it's just me, but there's been a few times in this build where I feel like you're jamming too much into the spaces you have available. The first pedestrian area by the raised highway was the first place I noticed it (you completely ran out of space for what you wanted to do and for the rail line to continue forward as it was meant to). I thought the area looked amazing with just the Peanut Bowl in it, envisioning a pedestrian area around it, with the pedestrian plaza's and food stations around it. You could have had some park assets (toilets, info booths as ticket offices etc.), outdoor seating to eat, maybe even a funfair asset (one of the small rides) for the kids, a monument and then one of the shopping malls. At the back could have been some of the community sized fields as if it were the team's practice facility, open to the public on non-training days. With some nice landscaping it's could have been an amazing open, walkable space! I just feel like with both stadiums AND both malls, it's really cramped and you've had to maguffin things around to fit them in instead of worked more naturally with the space. Each to their own though and I still enjoyed watching it all! 😊
@tobiasalexander4491
@tobiasalexander4491 Год назад
Perfect timing for lunch. With a cuppa, of course.
@BiffaPlaysCitiesSkylines
@BiffaPlaysCitiesSkylines Год назад
Enjoy! :-)
@viktoria7366
@viktoria7366 Год назад
I cannot be the only one who giggled when biffa said "that makes me mad". He is always so delightfully positive and pleasant 😄
@flashpoint9135
@flashpoint9135 Год назад
It might be an idea to include the stadiums in your campus area to bump the university attractiveness. Thanks as always for the content.
@BiffaPlaysCitiesSkylines
@BiffaPlaysCitiesSkylines Год назад
That's a great idea! :-)
@teekayfourtwoone4686
@teekayfourtwoone4686 Год назад
These stadiums work with the Match Day mechanic, but not the Varsity Sports, so I doubt that there is any value in adding them to the university.
@bobblebardsley
@bobblebardsley Год назад
Every time I see Lafayettea I think of it as Leafytea :D I love this build, all the plazas and detailing came together nicely! One traffic-calming option could be to make the exit turn-right-only with its own lane on that horizontal main road, so the traffic lights could just stay on green at all times for traffic leaving the sports arenas. I do feel like it's inevitable that there will be a ton of cars when an event ends though so maybe just have to live with it. (Another option could be to ban cars on the road right outside the stadium, but that would make the car parks useless and just shift the traffic down the road slightly.)
@mastersuntzu
@mastersuntzu Год назад
Need to have food courts, food carts and vendors around the sports complex Love all your builds! 🎉
@Flobyby
@Flobyby Год назад
There's got to be a fish and ship place
@simongeard4824
@simongeard4824 Год назад
Indeed... a stadium district like that doesn't need a shopping mall... it needs a hospitality area. Bars and restaurants where people can go before and after the game, food trucks for the lower-budget fans, etc.
@se8214
@se8214 Год назад
Biffa, keep it up!!!!! Your cities and craftsmanship are amazing. And how you problem solve traffic is a work of art
@BiffaPlaysCitiesSkylines
@BiffaPlaysCitiesSkylines Год назад
Thank you :-)
@rudigermullins8343
@rudigermullins8343 Год назад
BIffa is good at fixing traffic - no doubt about it. But as a city designer - he is hardly better than anyone else. Look at some other builders for 'real' city design talent and "craftsmanship"
@se8214
@se8214 Год назад
@Rudiger Mullins i will, if you want to give me a list of them. I enjoy watching @Biffa because of how he enjoys the game and is beyond humble
@Walle524
@Walle524 Год назад
Depends on what you like, different content creators have very different build styles. Heavy detailing, realism, heavy use of procedural objects, pure vanilla builds and so on. Check out City Planner Plays, Overcharged Egg, Few Candy, Akruas, Imperatur, T4rget, CityZilla and Two Dollars Twenty to name a few. There are loads more of talented creators so can’t list them all. 😊
@ying520
@ying520 Год назад
@@rudigermullins8343 youre reading into it too much lol. if you find his content boring then just watch someone else - hes just playing a game, he doesnt need to be critiqued to the highest degree like some piece of literature in english class. hes just having fun. having opinions is fine but going round talking about his flaws as a creator is hardly useful
@ginge.2022
@ginge.2022 Год назад
9:04 I had the same issue, u can place it on a normal road then just upgrade that road to a walkable road and it works perfectly fine 😊
@nkreed4281
@nkreed4281 Год назад
It's too bad that there isn't a special event traffic hierarchy for the traffic after a game/match. Maybe it can increase timing on specific traffic lights or have a local police station set up for traffic movement... Oh well. Great build as usual Biffa.
@ALKBeauty
@ALKBeauty Год назад
After your poll last week, I was really afraid this build was going to be let go to the wayside…I’m so happy there’s a new episode on this one!
@jackson3190
@jackson3190 Год назад
Biffa, I would make that pedestrian plaza outside the stadiums to be more like a large park, especially with large areas where watch parties can be held. It is a tradition in America where if your team is on the road in the playoffs, you have a watch party outside the stadium with the game being broadcasted on large screens to a large audience.
@hquest
@hquest Год назад
Fun fact: you almost reproduced the layout of the two stadiums from Baltimore, the M&T Bank Stadium (home of the NFL team Baltimore Ravens) and the Camden Yards (home of the MLB team Baltimore Orioles). While the two stadiums are split by the parking lot with a road across and over it, the train station in front of the shopping stores by the Camden Park area, yours ended not too far off it. Also, the Baltimore fields are opposite from yours in relation to the ground level of the fields: the M&T Bank Stadium field is at ground level, Camden Yards field is below the ground level.
@DeanShirley818
@DeanShirley818 Год назад
Realistic parking will cut down on the post-game traffic jams because it will eliminate "pocket cars" and also push more people to use mass transit.
@TheGamingEmpireYT
@TheGamingEmpireYT Год назад
Woah, nobody can replicate those cities, they're so awesome!
@thesheq5023
@thesheq5023 Год назад
The stadium paths are connectable and unblockable with network multitool Additionally you cant place stadiums on pedestrian roads but you can upgrade the roads after the stadium is placed to pedestrian roads
@monty6107
@monty6107 Год назад
you can upgrade the normal road with the pedestrian road and it will work fine with no issues
@carstenzimmermann4435
@carstenzimmermann4435 Год назад
The city skyline beyond the football stadium looks so great. All visitors of the baseball game are jealous and sad because they could have enjoyed the same if this arena were rotated so its opening would face the city. I also like the idea of the industrial road between the malls, but imho it should connect at the other end: not towards the pedestrian area, but to the collector with perfect access to the highway. Looking forward to seeing how the grows further
@RebelPhoenix13
@RebelPhoenix13 Год назад
The sports arena area is giving me serious FOMO, I would love to spend a day shopping and catching a game. Would be cool if you added some chic standalone restaurants to end your day at. As always great work Biffa!
@BiffaPlaysCitiesSkylines
@BiffaPlaysCitiesSkylines Год назад
Thank you Corey :-)
@raistormrs
@raistormrs Год назад
i usually disallow private vehicles on the roads in front of stadiums, with a good public transport connection of course.
@lknight1266
@lknight1266 Год назад
Could you have put the stadium on the pedestrian walking path had you zoned it as a pedestrian area?
@LvckyNico
@LvckyNico Год назад
No
@BKPrice
@BKPrice Год назад
"American football right beside the zoo - not a good idea." You're right. The animals next to them might scare the visitors to the zoo.
@krasnamerah1926
@krasnamerah1926 Год назад
I initially think that you should run the 2nd metro line on the riverside there, but a Lafayettea Stadium-Station Line is nice too.
@ForeverNERVOUSZan
@ForeverNERVOUSZan Год назад
i love the idea of a grand pedestrian entrance! it's a damn shame the game won't let you stick those assets right on the ped road. UGH! haha
@buckrodgers1162
@buckrodgers1162 Год назад
I think it would be a great game; That is if Colossal Order wasn't so 'DLC happy' with essential components of the game. Because when you have to pay more for the DLCs than you do for the base game; It just ruins the entirety of it by limiting the 'Full experience' to only those who can afford it. And not all of us can afford it.
@michelanvalo
@michelanvalo Год назад
Biffa with CS2 coming up the only challenge you've never done is something with disasters turned on. It might be a good series to end on, dealing with random disasters
@BiffaPlaysCitiesSkylines
@BiffaPlaysCitiesSkylines Год назад
I've done plenty, check my playlists 😊
@juliahenriques210
@juliahenriques210 Год назад
Something to consider would be to fill some otherwise empty areas with shops and services, otherwise it'll be a deadzone at night whenever there's no event in the stadiums. ;) The transportation is already there and the land value will skyrocket, so it's a nice way to get rid of some of that pesky commercial demand.
@shaneintheuk2026
@shaneintheuk2026 Год назад
2:10 I can hear City Planner Plays in my head, “I’m just going to check the slopes”. That T-Junction is going to require a good handbrake and excellent hill start skills 😂
@JediTev
@JediTev Год назад
What I did in one of my cities, I put the American football team's headquarters and practice field behind the stadium. If you want an example, take a looke at Levi's Stadium in Santa Clara, CA. In this case, the team's headquarters has been there for years before the stadium was built.
@simongeard4824
@simongeard4824 Год назад
Putting a stadium next to a zoo seems reasonable to me... one of the stadiums in NZ has a section known as The Zoo, since it's in a university city, and that stand tends to be filled with partying students.
@opallise
@opallise Год назад
I agree that it is SUPER annoying how many buildings can't go on pedestrian roads. So much for backwards compatibility. I like the lala palms too!
@17Se7enteen
@17Se7enteen Год назад
Change the stadium color to green, then the fans will be wearing green tees :)
@ChristianB24
@ChristianB24 Год назад
Behind the baseball stadium there is some space to fit some training grounds. You usually find those around a lot of stadiums. I think that would be a great addition
@mariosconstantinou8271
@mariosconstantinou8271 Год назад
At @3:15 I see a very efficient pedestrian crossing. Well done!
@gregoriosantillan8912
@gregoriosantillan8912 Год назад
I like using stop lights instead of priority signs it adds a little realism to the city
@SportsVibesTV
@SportsVibesTV Год назад
Convert the regular roads to pedestrian roads to work around the “cannot place this building here”. Once you do that create a pedestrian zone and you’re good to go.
@nichole2757
@nichole2757 Год назад
Should jiggery pokery the busy trams to a tram only along the whole frontage road in a pedestrian only waterfront . Or not, still absolutely love every episode Biffa!
@myreness
@myreness Год назад
It's looking great! I haven't finished watching the video yet, but what I'm thinking, you should add some emergency services in the area. Fire station, police and even a clinic would definitely be needed for these huge stadiums :) If you've done it by the end of the video, please disregard my comment xD
@der.Schtefan
@der.Schtefan Год назад
The sport venue probably needs car access for deliveries, TV transmission cars, delivering the talent, etc.
@nickstarling3063
@nickstarling3063 Год назад
I would like to see them add water table elements affecting transportation options in the next one. It would really make mixed used of metro and mono rail lines more interesting.
@AlexSmith-hg5rl
@AlexSmith-hg5rl Год назад
If you put it on a normal road and then upgrade to a pedestrian road it will let you.
@Flobyby
@Flobyby Год назад
This is a nice and modern area! Maybe you could have a free little shuttle service from the train station to the different locations and metro stops. Could be nice if you find one of those electric minibuses
@lordraven2264
@lordraven2264 Год назад
I think it is the Rose Bowl in Pasadena, CA USA. It looks exactly like it, except for the peanut shape of the field. Awesome build, tnx Biffa.
@jonblair5470
@jonblair5470 7 месяцев назад
32:22 I was so proud of you in this moment. And at 36:45
@BiffaPlaysCitiesSkylines
@BiffaPlaysCitiesSkylines 7 месяцев назад
🎊
@cesarzteczohito3331
@cesarzteczohito3331 Год назад
I think you should create a tram/light rail line between University Train Station - Stadiums - Autumn District Metro Station, and terminate it in some place. It would link up all those very important destinations with multiple modes of transport
@Maeshup
@Maeshup Год назад
With the baseball stadium it would most definitely look better having the cars spawn directly at the parking lots instead of the stadium entrance.
@nekotranslates
@nekotranslates Год назад
Biffa, there's a mod called "Not so unique buildings" where you can have 20 of the same "unique" building if you wanted
@TS_Mind_Swept
@TS_Mind_Swept Год назад
14:49 lmbo, never noticed the Dapper Chirper until just then, even if he was only there for just a moment SuperVinlin
@maartena
@maartena Год назад
I believe the Peanut Bowl is based on the real life Rose Bowl in Pasadena, CA (near Los Angeles). Only the field is..... well.... peanut shaped in this one! :D
@bill_exists
@bill_exists Год назад
Biffa its just a suggestion but i would love to see u expand the zoo with the rest of the animals and add those seabed ore miners, it would help with ur income after all of these expensive additions! love your videos and i want more of Biffalo Countea, definitely my favourite city of yours.
@micheleb9501
@micheleb9501 Год назад
This looks amazing!! It looks like the traffic after the games is headed right to the highway...maybe extend the road in front of Peanut Stadium to intersect with the road that leads right to the highway interchange, and make it one way out only, right turn only. Then in TMPE set it so cars can turn right on red. That would keep the flow going I think. The parks and plazas look fantastic...I really need to step up my detailing game! You always inspire me to build better!!
@leeroberts1192
@leeroberts1192 Год назад
@biffa when you eventually retire this city, Blighty and New Tealand for the last video for each, have the Realtime mod installed with every option set to generate the maximum possible traffic and with despawning turned off, you should get some really nice traffic jams. you could then do a traffic fix
@PotatoGod6969
@PotatoGod6969 Год назад
I KNOW THIS IS A GOOD CITY BUT I LOVE NEW TEALAND MORE AND WANT MORE NEW TEALAND VIDEOS THAN THE OTHER CITIES
@yojlik
@yojlik Год назад
3:10 building on fire - 3:18 building destroyed. hmm....
@christopherjunkins
@christopherjunkins Год назад
Now I'm caught up with all 3 cities! Yea!
@markknudsen1755
@markknudsen1755 Год назад
So I don't know if it's only me.. but anyone having issues with game crashing? Or suggestions.. Great video as always Biffa!
@jonblair5470
@jonblair5470 7 месяцев назад
The circle you created around the stadium at 28:50 could be connected to the paths on the stadium asset, giving guest more places to get in and out when there is a game
@Eisofice
@Eisofice Год назад
Often when it doesn't like pedestrian roads I put a buffer pedestrian road, put the building on normal road then keep building as normal. It makes a filter so only service vehicles go through without manually doing it, and it's a nice way to control where people use public transport Vs walking
@lucaortolani2059
@lucaortolani2059 Год назад
You should have kept the pedestrian road up to the stadiums, just forbid the car in the inner roads. I like the idea of a lot of people walking from the parking to the stadiums
@rfresa
@rfresa Год назад
I think the two malls would fit better if the pedestrian roads were perpendicular to the road to the stadium.
@christophb9684
@christophb9684 Год назад
You should turn the baseball stadium, if the people sit inside they can enjoy the nice skyline rather then the railway line. But it turned out very nice.
@Villa_Cheez
@Villa_Cheez Год назад
I think it wouldn’t let you place the stadium as you hadn’t drawn the pedestrian zone yet?🤷🏼‍♂️
@e1123581321345589144
@e1123581321345589144 Год назад
0:00 so I used this hack for the space elevator in one of my builds... It kept spamming cars so I placed it on a normal road, connected to the rest of the map though pedestrian roads. and because sism couldn't now drive anywhere directly, they choose to take the train and metro from the nearby station :) a win in my book on any day
@4rkang31
@4rkang31 Год назад
Oooh new biffa video!!
@shawnd-v1660
@shawnd-v1660 Год назад
If you place the stadiums on regular roads, you can upgrade them to pedestrian and there'll be no issues
@lordmctheobalt
@lordmctheobalt Год назад
As the sport arenas are directly next to the university, I would've made a Dorm-area where you put the malls...
@Zephyrbal
@Zephyrbal Год назад
As much as I prefer public transit, I think you should use a couple of decorative car parks for the stadiums rather than open air parking
@AbsalomIndustries
@AbsalomIndustries Год назад
I believe park snapping is a result of park/building anarchy settings, which should be able to be toggled off if you want to enable snapping on the parking lots, since the game thinks that they're park assets.
@metallurgymike1568
@metallurgymike1568 Год назад
Well done! Your eye for detail is stellar. I love how you greenify (or purple-ify) the spaces between.
@BiffaPlaysCitiesSkylines
@BiffaPlaysCitiesSkylines Год назад
Thank you so much! :-)
@dustyboat8802
@dustyboat8802 Год назад
Cracking build. Added loads of atmosphere to the area, and it really seems like a place plenty of people want to be... 👍
@petersmith5624
@petersmith5624 Год назад
The Peanut Bowl reminds me of The Rose Bowl. Great use of the large venues
@MrPieguyDaBoss
@MrPieguyDaBoss Год назад
U know why the American football stadium didnt go on pedestrian roads? Because America needs the runway roads for there cars.
@scartha4040
@scartha4040 Год назад
Don't forget the stadium station
@bossfight6125
@bossfight6125 Год назад
Just a reminder that parking lots are unusable on pedestrian roads since civilian cars can’t drive on pedestrian roads to access them.
@how2pick4name
@how2pick4name Год назад
I thought it was a traffic fixer video but I stuck around and it was great. It's fun to see a master at work, no matter at what.
@BiffaPlaysCitiesSkylines
@BiffaPlaysCitiesSkylines Год назад
Thanks :-)
@edwardmiessner6502
@edwardmiessner6502 Год назад
I'm s bit late but I'll have to say, this sports district is a fabulous build! I think thst for your cimoleans' further pleasure you can shoehorn an entertainment district within. And maybe relocate the service point by the railroad track near the Peanut Bowl? If you get tired of the name "Peanut Bowl Football Stadium" you can change it to "The New Flavian Amphitheatre" after the original name of the Colosseum in Rome. 😉 And your baseball team? How does "The Biffalo Sluggers" sound?
@PlantCozyGamerJess
@PlantCozyGamerJess Год назад
It would be awesome if you went through the DLC and talked about which ones you recommend
@ZakWinnick
@ZakWinnick Год назад
Peanut Bowl = Los Angeles Memorial Coliseum IRL. Home of the USC Trojans, and the 1984 Olympics. It's also the former home of the LA Raiders (and LA Dodgers when they moved from Brooklyn in the 1950s).
@trainformerd4134
@trainformerd4134 Год назад
Biffa put the pedestrian with bus only road/Street on all entrances to the sports stadiums too keep cars out but cities services, pedestrians can come in with ease
@filzp7
@filzp7 Год назад
It's a shame the view from the Peanut Stadium is blocked by the Shopping Mall though! I know you already decorated the area but what about making the pedestrian road start from the center of the Stadium, perpendicularly, and shift everything accordingly?
@stormfire962imastarcitizen5
Biffa it all looks amazing and I was wondering have you ever thought of using a tram in the area to help reduce the cars on the road in that area since it is so beautiful.
@samtro
@samtro Год назад
Heya Biffa! You should make the road in front of the baseball stadium into a two lane _one-way_ street, leading to the _right_ (away from the four way junction)
@TheDeadmanTT
@TheDeadmanTT Год назад
Pedestrian streets/zones are super wonky. I really hope they're in the base CS2 and MASSIVELY imporved.
@simongeard4824
@simongeard4824 Год назад
The problem seems to be that assets need to explicitly support them... and most assets don't. It's not just pedestrian streets... you see similar quirks where Universities buildings can be along paths if they're in a university district, and Park Life assets can be along paths if they're in a park district, but you can't mix-and-match (even though some of the University assets are essentially parks but can't go in park zones). The whole model for this kind of thing really needs improving in CS2... districts/zones in general are a very blunt instrument in CS1, and haven't scaled well once multiple district types became a thing. I'm hoping this is the kind of thing they're looking at upfront in CS2... planning out the basic mechanisms for all the future DLC from day one, with the benefit of hindsight from CS1.
@Ben_________
@Ben_________ Год назад
What about some food trucks close to the stadium. And some taxi stands?
@engineersin
@engineersin Год назад
Monorail can be adopted to the transport system of the city, especially around the sea-side of the hi-rise area, following the sealine, both to cope with the traffic and also will keep a hi-tech panaroma of the island
@tree0515
@tree0515 Год назад
this is so cool, i know you just finished a sports vid but i would love to see the other stadiums in new tealand too now after that huge hub setup!
@paperaddict3756
@paperaddict3756 Год назад
Voting for the stadium team to be the la la lyons after the lesser tea Lyons. Or name the street la la lane 😂
@teekayfourtwoone4686
@teekayfourtwoone4686 Год назад
You added roads behind the commercial buildings by the stadiums. If you moved the truck spawn points out back to that road, will that eliminate the need for the ped area cargo/garbage buildings?
@kelvzx
@kelvzx Год назад
You can do a pedestrian road up against a stadium. I just put a road and then upgraded it to a pedestrian road. And it’s amazing after the game and you see everyone walking to the parking lot or the metro station
@davecheffie5706
@davecheffie5706 Год назад
Hey Biffa, another great video again. How would you feel about adding a tram or monorail or some form of public transport that shuttles back & forth from the nearest transport hub?
@BiffaPlaysCitiesSkylines
@BiffaPlaysCitiesSkylines Год назад
Nice idea :-)
@maartena
@maartena Год назад
@@BiffaPlaysCitiesSkylines You could do a people mover system that some big theme park and sports areas have, that will just go around that zoo down there, the stadiums, shopping mall etc..... to a local train or metro station nearby. Sometimes I do that and that is what I use monorail for. (Example: They are currently building a people mover automated system (scheduled to open in 2024) between a metro station in Inglewood (near Los Angeles) and three venues close by: The SoFi Stadium (used for two NFL teams and also used for the 2028 Olympics), The Forum (concert/small sports venue), and the currently under construction Intuit Dome that will be the future home of the Los Angeles Clippers NBA team.)
@Peter-ws8pm
@Peter-ws8pm Год назад
Not sure if your already aware of this but a great asset, if someone is able to make it for your builds, especially the British city would be the Biffa bin lorries. I often see them driving around and always think of this channel when I see them🎉
@svenraether2898
@svenraether2898 Год назад
Yes finally Mr. Biffa....the looooong time wanted sportsarena wich isn´t small like all the others...or is it just the german sportarenas who fit inbetween 30 and 60k fans each game...The NZ Sky Arena isn´t really beautiful but has atleast 20-30k capacity. Sure you will have much different traffic on gamedays.
@curtisjmurphy
@curtisjmurphy Год назад
A short monorail from the train station between the two stadiums seems very suiting.
@TheDazza
@TheDazza Год назад
Yes, and even taking the monorail over too the zoo as well!
@thadizzie1
@thadizzie1 Год назад
I just finished bingeing on this series. As usual super fun build!! And now I realize why you never came back to it... NO ROCKS!!! Not a single one! No rocks = no meaning 😂😂😂😂
@BiffaPlaysCitiesSkylines
@BiffaPlaysCitiesSkylines Год назад
😅
@billfaucett9755
@billfaucett9755 Год назад
If rotate the baseball stadium 180, it would have a great skyline view over centerfield
@skiscHans
@skiscHans Год назад
The metro seems mayhem to me. Two separate tunnels under the river for the same line that should be a line instead of a loop, two many transfers needed too close to each other. Maybe do something where the tunnel under the river splits up into two different lines on each bank of the river.
@dmc41287
@dmc41287 Год назад
I love BadPeanuts take on the LA Memorial Coliseum
@srm20320
@srm20320 Год назад
I love this, but why have another parking lot right next to the one by the zoo parking. I feel like the malls and the parking lot on the left side should be switched. Makes way more sense to have that huge lot right outside the stadium versus next to the zoo lot.
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