The Tyranny of Plot: Why Books Don't Always Need Stories 

Welcome! Glad you're on here man. Great work.

I’d include Danilo Kis’ Garden, Ashes, Italo Calvino’s Invisible Cities, and William H. Gaddis’ The Tunnel. Love Rings of Saturn. What a delight this video was.

I'm reading The Rings of Saturn now because of your discussion and I love it. I don't know if you remember a particular episode - the narrator visits his friend Michael. He tells the reader at great length about the memoir that Michael wrote. But as the narrator is telling us about the memoir it becomes difficult to remember that the narrator is telling someone else' story - not his own - because the voices of the narrator and Michael becomes so intertwined. Then I realized that's exactly what happens when we read. We slip into the book and it becomes our story even though it is a fiction that was written by someone else.

Finally got round to reading rings of saturn. Its prose is absolutely mesmeric.

Better Than Food sent me here, and he's reviewed lots of books that'd qualify as atmospheric and plotless--"Agua Viva" by Clarice Lispector comes to mind. Plot is predicated on the notion that we, as people, can change, quickly and directly from exterior events. That's really the key to almost all stories, but the more you look at it, it's probably not true. The progress, improvements, enlightenment we achieve usually happens slowly, and is an inward journey. But, even if the change that the heroes of plot-driven novels undergo is unrealistic, I think there's still a point in having it. No one ever complained about a book having a great plot, and people are more likely to keep reading. And plot doesn't sacrifice atmosphere or aesthetic merit. Of course, the typical plot of a thriller won't leave much room for introspective philosophical scenes, but still, most of the "great books" have some plot, however scattered or faint. I think fiction helps to deliver messages in a powerful way that people will remember, as opposed to pontificating on them in some philosophical essay. As the saying goes, "the customer is always right," so if the readers want a good plot, the vast majority of writers will try to give them that, along with the art.

Beautiful. It’s heartening to hear other readers espouse this view. Love the idea of literature as an antidote to some of the invisible intellectual ruts of modernity. Great video!

Better than food brought me here! Looking forward to the content.

What a piece of work this is! You talk about Prose while creating a sort of visual delight that vacillates at the boundary of prose and poetry itself. Such production is very rare and thoroughly original. Intentional or unintentional as it might be, this seems to be an attempt to look at how we talk about books in this kind of platform in a very different light. I would say, the remembrance of things past by Proust would fit into this category, it was groundbreaking in its rebellion against the plot, in its trying to use written words to penetrate a variety of sensory experiences and impressions, I feel.

thank you dear universe for finding this channel.

“We must go to war out of boredom”. I do love that Quentin S Crisp quote. As a follower of Sherds podcast which has introduced me to so many great novels, I really enjoyed this visual essay. It’s a beautifully put together video: from soundtrack, to visuals, and especially to the thoughtful essay. I would add Street of Crocodiles to the list. A novel where as a reader I just want to remain in its pages, enveloped by its atmosphere, lost in the beautiful thickets of poetic prose, under the spell of the heightened language and Schulz’ alchemical transformation of his childhood memories.

Better than food brought me here. Glad I did!!

I don’t know who you are, I just now found your channel, but that was terrific. Truly. You expressed that and presented it beautifully.

Thank you so very much for introducing me to W.G. Sebald. I just finished 'Austerlitz' and I have his other three novels on order. Your videos are very impressive.

Great video. I found this through Chris Via’s Instagram. I definitely prefer some plot in fiction because I find it can connect a lot of the investigation and create some anticipation, but I thought the points you make here are interesting and well expressed, especially how people view their lives as plots instead of experiences and atmospheres. Connecting these literary observations to real life is what it’s all about, in my opinion. Good job, and great production value too 😁

What is interesting to me is that it seems other cultures might have a more intuitive approach to this "plotlessness" in their storytelling than most Western works - many Japanese classics for example (Soseki and Kawabata come to mind, and Ozu is a smiliar example in film-making).

This is a really insightful video. Of the works you feature, I’ve only read “The Rings of Saturn”, but that book alone provides considerable validation of your argument. For me, the same criteria can be applied to cinema, as I find films like those of Andrei Tarkovsky to be much more compelling than plot-driven movies that are so often instantly forgettable once the show is over.

“I’m certainly guilty of this at times, but it also strikes me that many people I talk to, think in very goal oriented ways about their own lives. They ask themselves what they have achieved by a certain age, compare this to the achievements of others, or claim that by a certain age they want a house, a dream job, or whatever it might be. It seems that fewer people talk about what they want to have experienced in life. About the emotional awareness they want to achieve, or the moods of transcendence they aspire to enter. But this is how many of us, from our earliest days, have been taught to live and to think. To trace in linear terms, the plot of our lives.” I've thought about this idea a lot, so to have it so beautifully expressed was such a treat! I was expecting a literary rant, and instead got a wonderful, poetic video that really explored the main idea. Loved it, thank you!

This emphasis on atmosphere is all about art, my visual art at least and anything I like. You’re are right it’s connected to the mainstream way of living …the plot of our lives.

Great video, good ideas! I would add Pessoas ”Book of Disquiet” to the list of books where ambience is the essential element.

Your video editing is great. That was both soothing and yet informative. For me, plot is the least of the considerations to which I lend weight when thinking of a novel. Often in fact, plot can intrude on other elements, to the detriment of the work as a whole. Novels that I've read recently that have successfully subverted expectations of plot include A Girl Is a Half-formed Thing by Eimar McBride, The Long Take by Robin Robertson and Flauberts Parrot by Julian Barnes. Keep up the excellent content!

Back for a rewatch

Wonderful video, artfully done! The first book that came to mind, is Virginia Woolf's "To The Lighthouse"--a personal favorite. Also love Seabald's "Rings of Saturn," but have yet to check out the other books you discuss, but I will. Much Thanks!

Better Than Food recommended this channel. Spot on. Thanks for this elegant essay.

I tend to read plot-based works more often, but I nonetheless agree with the premise of your video. Literature can be interesting and stunning without a clear plot and people who are obsessed with spoilers are annoying, to say the least. I have usually come across ambiental, meditative works in film, but I have read at least one book of this kind, as far as I can remember. It was Natsume Soseki's "Kusamakura", which I absolutely loved. Great video, by the way!

Thank you for this. I have never liked plots in books, preferring the texture and intricate details of prose. I'm pleased to know I'm not the only one.

I'm glad to know that Sherds Podcast now has a video channel! I'm still catching up with old episodes of the podcast, but so far have bought several books because of it: stories of Vernon Lee, Machen's The Hill of Dreams, Pedro Páramo, and the M. Levine translation of the stories of Bruno Schulz (which I'm currently reading, interleaving it with Thomas Wolfe's first epic, O Lost) come to mind. A book that I find quite magnificent because of its atmosphere-a castle in the Hungarian countryside, removed from the horrors of war, where two old men, former friends in the waning years of the Austro-Hungarian Empire, meet after a lapse of 41 years-is Embers by Sándor Márai. The language, in the translation by the late Carol Brown Janeway, is like burnished bronze.

Great essay. You deserve more views. Greetings from Brazil

Robert Walser, Lobo Antunes, Mayröcker, Bruno Schulz, Claude Simon, Wolfgang Hilbig, Peter Kurzeck (can you read German?, your Kafka books suggested that you do), Nádas, Beckett, Barthelme, Murnane, Félisberto Hernández, Handke (of the 70's), Blanchot, Herta Müller, Woolf, Genet, Josef Winkler, Tor Ulven, R. Roussel ... I read all those authors because they write more or less plotless and one can really alter one's view of the world for a moment while reading their books. So I'm looking forward to your recommendations and next videos.

Great to see you on RU-vid love the Shards podcasts. Chasing Homer by László Krasznahorkai, Szilveszter Miklós Oct

Great stuff, looking forward to the next videos. The book that first came to mind when thinking about the unimportance of plot, was Nadie nada nunca, by Juan José Saer. I do not know if this book has been translated to English, a superficial search did not produce any results. In this novel, an apparent mystery around the unexplained killing of several horses by someone around the beaches of Argentina is an excuse to write about time, perception, among other things.

The first thing that came of to my mind after reading the title: Underworld. A fantastic book.

I found an essay by Quentin S. Crisp (I think) on gothic literature while doing research for an essay on Invention of Morel and Island of Dr. Moreau back in 2008, when I was a freshman in college.

You said ambiance? One book came to my mind immediately : "The desert of the Tartars" of D. Buzzati. Great video, thanks for the video and welcome!

Excellent video! It's been a couple of years since I read it but Invisible Cities by Italo Calvino probably fits here.

Cool to see you doing a RU-vid channel now too. The video was great. I really need to read the rest of Rings of Saturn, I keep starting it and never getting through it

I have discovered you by accident and you are tremendous! I agree with you entirely, about atmosphere and plot. I got damn tired on the old Book Country of being asked "When is something going to happen?" I'll be back to hear more of what you have to say.

A beautifully made video. I never thought about how a goal-oriented view of life is reflected in plot-focused stories and vice versa. Makes a lot of sense. "The Magic Mountain" by Thomas Mann came to mind as a story with the atmosphere of a certain place as it's focus.

A wonderful first video, and great companion to the podcast. Of books I've recently read, I think di Benedetto's Zama is an effective exercise in atmosphere over plot, and Daša Drndić's EEG has the same kind of thematic propulsion that Rings of Saturn has.

'One day I will write about this place' by Binyavanga Wainaina. Really enjoyed this video, thanks!

Great video! I think about "Life: A user's manual" by Perec, witch for me is about tension between following engaging plot and absurdly obssesive description of reality. Also Nicolas Bouvier books, esspecialy "The Scorpion-Fish" where he picture sweaty mood of Sri Lanka.

Better than food sent me here, love it, but now ADORE that you have Caradoc Pritchard’s book 🙌 You wouldn’t know I was a Welshman 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿 😆

You might already know about it, but Soseki Natsume's brilliant work Kusamakura (Grass pillow) is exactly what you're describing. I've found that it stuck with me despite its brevity and lack of plot.

One more brought by mister Clifford Lee Sargent. Really liked the video and the way you calmly speak. Subscribed and can't wait for the next one.

Your description of Dukla (which I have not read, but plan to upon your recommendation) reminds me of In the Heart of the Heart of the Country by William Gass. Totally agree with your short review of the Rings of Saturn. I'm now a subscriber. Thank you.

Insightful and thought provoking Video ...i am a regular listener of the podcast - very happy to see this vlog. I would recommend English translations of Hindi writer Nirmal Verma’s works. He is one of our major writers and while reading him - we normally forget about the immediacy of plot. For pages in end, nothing really happens - in the worldly ways I mean. Beautiful meditative writing ...his novels ‘days of longing’ and ‘the red tin roof’ can be wonderful to start from. ( I have read the originals in Hindi). Also, I guess, lot of Clarice Lispector’s writing can be considered in this category...

Fabulous video and thank you! For me, it’s almost like plot is like an added bonus in a great book. I hope to seek out ‘Rings of Saturn’ very soon... I noticed ‘The Tunnel’ on your shelf! It is a real favorite of mine. Have you read it and if so I’d love to hear your quick thoughts?! Take care

Daw-key Archive, the L is silent. Doesn't matter, just fyi The tyranny of plot is more easily avoided in nonfiction (but sometimes at a sacrifice). You would probably like Tim Robinson's Stones of Aran and Connemara Trilogy. Remarkable by any standards.

Have you read All the names by Saramago? It changed me as a reader and the ambiance is great! Just discovered you thanks to Better than food, I’ll check the podcast for sure

The adult in the room has arrived ! at last......

Malicroix by Henri Bosco. Doesn’t get close to Sebald, but it does have something going on.

I wonder whether historical fiction based on real events actually lends itself quite well to this atmospheric approach. Given that spoilers can’t really exist with fiction based on things that have already happened, perhaps real-life-based historical fiction would be better off taking the atmospheric approach? What say you, @SherdsTube?

Yup, subscribed

Fantastic video. It’s wonderful to come across another earnest admirer of Rings of Saturn. Do you compose the soundtracks to your videos yourself?

Yeah we need more real content on here. This is great. This is what saves the world!

Please add subtitles too.

Amazing discussion! I think moby dick in a way really fits as one of those books. Of course, its a plot, but just like shakespeares plays, its secondary or even less prioritized than that. In that book, everything really revolves around form and character.

engaging!

Juan Rulfo

I'm rereading "The Flanders Road" by Claude Simon. I’d really like to know what you think of that novel. Thanks. By the way, related to Sebald, we killed ONLY a hundred thousand people in Jasenovac.

Oh, wait, I thought I recognized your voice! You did the podcast on Jahnn's The Ship!

Speak, Silence In Search of W. G. Sebald By: Carole Angier

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Whats the music playing from the start?