You’re putting the cart before the horse. You can be absolutely certain SSL is creating a system of building blocks as well as a method for custom housing. I never bet against them.
Hey guys, quick question. I love this build idea and pretty much everything SSL, but what if I want to use Neve preamps? Is there now or do you think there will be a way to incorporate those preamps into my build? Thanks this is very important to me. I appreciate it.😁
Thank you! I completely agree -this is the best idea for new products since years. From my perspective as an ambitious amateur this concept would fit perfectly into a lot of amateur and professional studios. Hope SSL will take a note! ;o)
always "back to the roots" and "vintage is the best" "....the Beatles and sh...." it´s sooo true.... progress brings us further ... thanx for great video ;-)
This would be amazing!!! I would never be able to afford the whole system, but phenomenal idea, and i really hope SSL sees this video and gets to work. The world needs this idea to become reality
yes this is spot on I would buy today a 36 channel controller ssl36 digital console to use with 360 software. lets go we are close but not there yet SSL we need this.. SEE you at NAMM lets talk.
Thank you thank you Thanks!! I was just on a call with my Sweetwater rep talking about this very thing.. He tried to steer me towards multiple rack unit interfaces.. NOOOOOOO! He also stated that there was no audio advantage with using a digital mixer as the interface...I disagreed! So, he said I'd have to spend over 10 for a Digital mixer to get superior summing and AD/DA... I'm staying the course.. I'm even considering WAVES mixer..or even a used System5B ...
I was hoping that Apogee were going to do this years ago for Logic. They have so much in place with the integration as it is, but never saw the need to push it further.
I use my Soundcraft Ghost for tracking anything analog. I use the X32 with X32ReaperAutoMate for automated, moving fader mixing on the X32, using the X32 audio engines, not as a DAW controller. I'm very happy with the arrangement, especially with my low-latency Dante audio network. I can do anything I did on the old API/Studer, but better, and the automation controls every audio function on the console. That capability is going to be hard to beat for the price.
Just ordered the UC1 after looking at large mixing desks and thinking of the old school hassle of all the patching and wiring. So glad options are becoming available. Might further take the step to UA and get rid of all my outboard compressors and other gear but not sure yet:)
8 fader controller with attachable vertical gain/trim>comp/gate>eq strip And maybe a stand alone 5 encoder “sends strip” that you dan attach would be the best thing. Pretty much 8channels just like their duality console for example Maybe their own DAW too? The 2 things that keep me from buying both units are the rubber knobs on the uf8 and the horizontal layout of the uc1 (i get why they did that tho)
Paul Frindle who invented the SSL G-Series EQ and built the original Sony Oxford Console pitched this same idea to Sony but Sony lost so much money on the Oxford digital console that they sold the rights to the Oxford algorithms to Sonnox who now sale them as plugins and Sony got out of the Pro Audio business entirely except for 1 microphone that cost $10,000, I guess they are still trying to get their money back from the losses incurred from that console. But they wanted a desk with an analog front end for tracking and a digital back end for mixing with one to one control over a DAW they would build for the desk. But this was the late 90s early 2000s and no one saw the explosion of home studios even back then!
@@PresentDayProduction Sort of the DMX 100 was a cut down version of the original Sony OSX-R3 Oxford console. The DMX version was a great desk but the idea was to make it a modular system for a modern digital studio. But by this time Sony had no interest in the Pro Audio market. Paul said that they scraped the idea for a 1 to 1 control surface and the oxford DAW. Instead deciding to release a digital mixer with no real upgradability. If only Sony could have seen Paul's visionary idea for what it was we would be working in a different world. :(
Are you saying that I can’t make a bad song great by throwing ridiculously expensive vintage gear on it? How dare you gentlemen… Preposterous! I’m hitting the like button immediately!
Yes! Agree with literally everything said here, "hybrid" is laughable at the moment. It's often a room with old analog gear and a computer with no real integration. This would be a real solution.
Not sure what point you are trying to make. Hybrid is actually the future that's the industry has already been moving towards ditching the large format recording console. You see a lot of Argosy Console desk these days in large studios and Mixing rooms that are replacing the bigger foot print Neves and SSLs.
Thanks for sharing - I had these exact same thoughts... recently during the apocalypse, in my in home apocalyptic mix suite I started down the video editing rabbit hole started using DaVinci Resolve (adding video editing services to my menu ) and came across their fairlight mixing console and said to myself hey that would work great with Pro Tools in my newly minted room regrettably as you mentioned it doesn't work with anything but da Vinci resolve - back when dinosaurs roamed the earth I cut my teeth on SSL and I've been fortunate enough to have had moments where I have owned the SSL AWS 900 ... I think your proposed solution with SSL would be a game changer for me and lots of us ( across the pond) who retreated back to more manageable spaces because of the apocalypse - perhaps if like-minded folks would share your video with SSL on both sides of the pond - there might be some way to move the ball down the field -said the mouse that roared 🤷🏽... Keep up the good work !!!☕️🤠👍🏽
Yeah it’s a bit pricey, and tied to Steinberg software in the same way the Blackmagic consoles are tied to Davinci Resolve. Something more universal and affordable would be good!
I thought exactly the same about the uad/apollo/luna set up, that with the ssl or the softube console one setup would be the ultimate analogue/hybrid/simulation set up and its all so close to being a reality but there is still a compromise at the moment no matter which route you go down. But i think its definitely on the not so distant horrizon. Great video guys thank you :D
I’m on board with the concept.. I just think these type of digital consoles would be maintenance nightmares, or boat anchors if broken. Older simpler circuits are easy to get parts for and simple to repair (generally speaking). Keen to see what’s possible though, I think you’re absolutely right that there’s a gap for this in the market.
I’ve been using my UF-8 as what’s effectively a small automatable console by pairing it with my RND 5059 and the WesAudio ngLeveler automation system (which has MCU and DAW automation support). I’m a HUGE fan of this workflow, so yes yes yes yes yes please to a modular system like this that’s well thought out and supported. If SSL can take their digital soft patching and routing frameworks (from the Matrix and Origin), and apply them to 500 series chassis that integrates into a console like this, I’m all in and buying a console and 3-4 of the 500 series racks pretty much immediately.
What do you guys think about the Audient ASP 8024 line? Looks like a really interesting mix of classic analogue console vibes and hands on, motorised DAW control (especially with the dual layer control module).
They are great desks, but it’s still basically an analogue console with a DAW controller stuck in the middle of it you go for that option. I’d like to see a truly hybrid solution that you can configure yourself. A DIY Duality!
Just want to say this is a great video and even if I don't completely agree with you, it's still brilliant and all the comments have been informative and useful. Plus your style of videos always makes me laugh or cringe but I still love them haha
I think they have tried this before the module approach. I recall a company here in Texas doing something but went belly up. The biggest issue is connectivity from console to computer and then to DAW. PC vs Apple, 32 bit or 64 bit (the issue that killed the Tascam console 10-12 years back), then a plethora of DAWs and their inherent closed architecture or updates that could break a connection. IMO, the consoles are still best delegated to analog summing, and you can use a Behringer X-touch or similar to run the DAW. This is what works for me. A fully upgradeable module system that is also price sensitive AND can connect to the widest number of users (PC vs Apple, DAWs, etc) is going to be the biggest challenge. Lastly in all this is the AD converters issue. Semi-Pro and pro level studios are going to have their favorite AD converters or prefer older Analog (SSL, NEVE, etc) consoles to get "the sound" and so a fully modular design may or may not need AD converters. In the end is price. I picked up an older Soundcraft 24 channel for $300, everything works, and while not always the best sound, it provides a "signature' sound... "my sound", and I still can get crystal clear audio AD conversion through my more expensive rackmount system and 500 series modules.
Perfect concept, A "center section" module with proper transport control and audio interface capabilities would help them corner the ITB market. As you mentioned, I have a sneaking suspicion this is in the works, considering the ssl 2/2+ lacking things like adat was very strange to me. However, it makes a lot of sense when you consider the high volume sales of less sophisticated, lower priced initial offerings (2/2+, SiX modules) would be padding the development for a more complete system, like the one discussed here. It would also partially explain their renewed interest in developing for 500 series. I can only hope. It would be pretty rad.
I've seen some modular analogue console offerings from Looptrotter, Mixerblocks, and Schertler. However, as far as I'm aware, no one has taken it to the level that you discuss here. It would be very welcome, indeed! The technology exists to do so and I reckon that it's just a matter of time before someone delivers such a range of products. I would hope that companies like SSL, Focusrite, Trident, Neve, Presonus, and Icon all take note. Cheers from South Wales, NY, USA! -chaz
I think you made your video for nothing guys ;) I think they are working on that, Just bought the UC1 and YESSS it's the beginning of a new revolution and SSL started it., Thanks for sharing you are absolutely right!
I wish SSL would hurry a bit. The modular idea (if affordable) is the way to go in my opinion and many engineers I know feel the same. Note: I have been considering the SSL UC1, but didn't pull the trigger yet as the Rocksolid Audio Channel Strip 2 is tempting as well because it can map to multiple plugins. I wish SSL would do that with the UC1. Mapping! Phil NYC Area
only counterpoint I can possibly make(and trust me i think this idea of yours is wonderful) is the software. I moved hybrid for ergonomics and also because the main investment of my studio will still function if my software became unable to work anymore. Many companies have dubious reputations, and those that don't, could make a product like this and then decide one day to end support so you will buy the next thing. I don't like giving developers any more control of my spending than I have to. I would hate to migrate to such an amazing system that you have described only for it to be a paperweight in a decade(kind of like the early digital avid desks are often today)
@@PresentDayProduction an automation computer that runs on linux that can be updated with emerging control surface protocols would probably do the job for that!
UC1 seems to be the missing link that we as in the box producers and mix engineers are looking for. If SSL takes this further and listens to their customers. They will lead the way...SSL still a great pedigree after all these years.
Completely agree! An affordable modular approach is the way to do it. Everyone can just buy what they need depending on the nuances of their workflow. Other similar solutions are way too expensive for the average home/project/smaller studio.
Agreed and It's already here Dan. You can either go down a single manufacturer ecosystem such as with Behringer X series or Presonus Studio Live, complete with flying faders or touchscreen console solution or you can cobble together your own system and integrate with any desk of your choice. It's laughable that they're talking about the Fairlight system but let's not mention its price of $34000+ for it's integrated solution or individual modules for $6000+. I mean they made a keyboard which uses the same key technology as in gaming keyboards but theirs cost over a grand lol. You can put together your own modular studio solution from under $2000 which includes a stagebox, control surface and touchscreen so yeah.
I know where you're coming from, but I think your statements are pretty much what Mark & James are addressing. There are some modular systems (eg. Avid S6, Yamaha Nuage) which are too expensive for the average home user. There's plenty of consoles that are both inputs and control surfaces (PreSonus SL / Behringer X32) + stageboxes. Then there's control surfaces that are just that, but no real 'hybrid' modular approach. But they're suggesting that SSL are on their way to making a more 'consumer friendly' modular system for the audio world, where you're buying the modules you need, rather than compromising one way or another between analogue/digital. (at least that's the way I've interpreted their video). Another comment from someone suggested Waves are also half-way there, but coming from the other direction, being software driven plugins stretching into the hardware world for additional power. They already have the LV1 which is for the live music world making use of touchscreens. So, it's potentially just a case of getting the right hardware/software to go along side it to make it DAW friendly. I think the main thing is.... there's plenty of choice on the market depending on what you want to achieve and the budget you have. But consumer and pro worlds have been getting closer and closer with the advances of technology, hardware, pc's/macs resulting in a gap between cheap/compromise and the pro systems markets.
@@xMusicManDan Not sure what hybrid modular approach can be done. SSL already have a modular system albeit not a tightly integrated one. They have an audio interface, control surface and dedicated master/faderport style control surface with the UC1. The modular system I want will NOT be tied to one manufacturer. Lets not forget Avid/Digidesign have a modular system too. The problem with this video is that their benchmark is Blackmagic which is modular in a way but yeah go check the price haha. It's not that different to Protools so this is my gripe haha. Love all the ideas and I sort of like the idea but I know full well that we will be paying over the odds as there is no way SSL will cater for the budget crowd.
@@PresentDayProduction I primarily a live engineer, made many live recordings over the years an mixed them, as well as standard studio recording/mixing/mastering jobs
You guys need to talk to the people at Helios. They are taking suggestions for their return to form in the near future. I suggested to them exactly what you are talking about here. A Helios upgrade to the Presonus 64s Live (96 tracks) that is fully integrated with any and all daws. Look at API/Luna! Time for HELIOS!!!
I've been wanting an SSL L500 in a recording studio for a long time now. I don't understand why no one has done this yet. I used to mix FOH on it and it sounds incredible.
But... but... but.. NO 1073 MIC PRES?!?! And... and... and.... DIGITAL?!?! I’m sorry Jacob, FOH must have made you deaf! No serious studio bod would track drums using built in pre-amps! And what about vocals?! You’ve GOT to have a 1073 into an 1176 into an LA-2A on the way in OR YOU’RE NO GOOD AND YOUR VOCAL WILL SUCK!!! I’m being sarcastic of course. And that’s the problem isn’t it. Education. Or rather, mis-education. If you tell me you can get a great sound on an L500 and would happily use that technology in a studio situation then I love you, and you are, of course, entirely right. And that’s why we think it’s a company like SSL that need to be doing this in studio world now. We don’t need another Origin, we don’t need another Audient ASPwhatever, we need a modular, expandable L500, with the option for a bit of analogue whatever here and there if you reeeeeally want that. But, most importantly, when people like you say that you’ve used the L500 in anger and it sounds incredible, studio world needs to take notice and not instantly write it off because it’s ‘live’ and it’s ‘digital’. Because you’re right. Home studio land seem to have been told that if it’s digital in a DAW on a computer then it’s fine, as long as it’s modelling analogue of course. But if it’s digital hardware?! Oooo nooooooo! 😱🤪
I'm surprised you missed the SSLSix in this analysis. I have a six and Fusion; it was just the right answer. Most advice was to get the signal as good as I can be on the way in, and nothing compares as a single unit. I didn't intend on becoming an SSL fanboy, but after a 15-year hiatus, the thing I was most incredulous is how there were no good desk emulations with 1 to 1 controls. I still can't believe you can't just map a plugin with a controller and then work on every instance? The culture of always looking back is really holding the industry back. I hope you guys are right. A UC1 is on the shopping list next!
SSL Six channels are available as 500 series modules - so that would be an option for however many analogue channels you want in your console if they went down the 500 rack route.
I’ve been saying for years now that I want Universal Audio to make an Apollo console. I absolutely love their pres and their software console, but I really want hardware control.
Thats a truly great Idea! Have you ever heard of Stagetec from Berlin? They develop and produce high end studio-, theatre- and live consoles with a modular design. With the new Avatus series they've got almost exactly the product line you've envisioned. But the desks are extremely expensive.
Having 1 eq and comp on each channel makes for easy mixing. Tried the 360 with the new SSL EQ and SSL comp. was pleasantly surprised how clean the mix was. Used to use Harrison mixbus but it crashed so many times, half my plugs don’t or don’t work properly without it crashing ehh...anyway what was I saying again?? 🤷🏽♀️ anyway I’m picking up the new SSL UC1. 👀👀
Jokes aside, I couldn't agree more. Actually in the market for a big desk, and wrestling with the whole digital vs analogue with direct outs thingy. Your video makes me think it might be worth waiting a year or so!
Careers have been made on the ever so slight difference using an 'analogue modeled plugin'. The strides digital made for audio clarity and quality reversed by stupid dinosaur mentality. There is nothing inherently superior in analogue gear from the 70s and all their digital clones. It's all snake oil.
Alright why are people still tripping about having gear, you don't need an excuse to buy gear or plugins they both work,if you can afford it and you want it get it. I like using plugins but my set up is centered around an analog board, it's boring to Me to mix with a mouse but that's my preference
What a coincidence. I'm editing a video in Resolve right now, take a quick lunch break, and the first video I watch prominently features Fairlight. I do use Fairlight regularly for video post, but would not even consider it for music. Maybe it's time for Blackmagic to release a music-oriented DAW...
@@PresentDayProduction there is a East European programmer, a genius in my book who has written a software that enabled me to use Push as a DAW controller for Cakewalk Sonar. I am pretty sure that he can enable it to speak Mackie using an 'overlay' program or something
Those are geared towards the Live Sound market opposed to the studio market. No one is going to use the stock pres because its no different than an audio interface. Most pros use outboard pres like the Neves, API and ISA for that big sound with depth.
Hi Mark! With Apple Music being Dolby Atmos ready and going lossless, what’s changing in the world of mastering and mixing? Would love to hear your insights on that, maybe potentially even a video? Thanks and keep up the great work! 💪
Thanks Fred! Great idea for a video! As a general overview from what’s popping through my door, mixes are getting more and more over-processed and laboured, and mastering is becoming increasingly about how to fix that - and often going back to the client and suggesting they revisit elements of the mix. Which is fine, that’s what it’s about for me. If something is good it’s good, if it isn’t then I will tell you, but with an aim to work out why it’s not good, and make it good! In mastering world specifically, there are three camps now. Amateur, professional, and automated. In MOST cases, automated is doing a better job than amateur (Landr specifically) and at the very least producing an acceptable master. It hasn’t got that human element, of course, and it can’t tell you your mix sucks, and it can’t do nothing at all if that’s what needs doing (and I master a LOT of jazz albums where I literally might only tweak a db of EQ on one or two tracks because they are so incredible when they come to me). The problem with the amateur mastering ‘engineers’ (I hate that word!) is that they are generally working on consumer grade monitors in a less than ideal room, and they don’t know what they are listening to. And in a lot of cases they are mixing the music as well. And I can generally hear, especially in electronic and dance genres, what kind of monitors they are using based on how the mix sounds. Especially if it’s the oh so popular Neumann/K&H O300s! And I get into a lot of trouble over this, but when people come in for an attended session and hear their mix/master on ATCs they go “Oh yeah, wow! I get what you mean now!” And most people don’t have that experience, and don’t realise that you really can’t hear what you can’t hear, especially when it comes to cumulative over-processing, and that you are completely unaware of that UNTIL you’ve heard it. And then you know. And it nearly always blows people’s minds. There is also an unhealthy obsession with numbers in mastering world, and most really great mastering engineers I know probably couldn’t even tell you what LUFS level they mastered your track to. Because they don’t care. They just mastered it to a level at which it sounds it’s best, and if Apple or Spotify turn it down a little it will still sound just as good, and if they turn it up a bit then likewise. They’re using the software provided by these services to hear how it sounds when it’s uploaded and encoded, and if it’s -14 then great, and if it’s -10 then it’s -10 for a reason. Because it sounds better for that specific track. The amateur guys are still cranking it way too loud as a rule, and it sounds worse when it’s turned down by the streaming services. Even our own James has been struggling to finish mixing his own album for a couple of years now (in free time of course, not 40 hours a week for two years haha) and played a couple of songs through last week but forgot to plug the ilok in - so 3/4 of the plugins were disabled and we both kinda went “Err... wow.... that’s it!” So to summarise that, less is more at the mix stage, and getting it right at source always wins - I recently remixed a very big record from the 80s and pushed the faders up, panned, added three reverbs and two delays, and had a compressor on two channels and EQ on one and it sounds amazing because they did such an incredible job of of tracking it. And I think with Apple offering lossless and so many other services doing the same, having your music mastered in a proper environment, on proper monitors, by someone who knows what they’re doing is going to be more important than ever. And hopefully we’ll enter a new golden age of music! And for those reading this who don’t know what I mean regarding monitoring... listen to the original mix of Close To You by the Carpenters and tell me where in the song someone puts something down and mouths the word ‘sorry!’ You can’t hear the word, but you CAN hear the moisture in the mouth. And it’s not Karen!
better off just buying a desk with rack space to install your 500 series racks and a DAW control surface and you will have the same thing. Trying to cram everything as an all in one product is setting yourself up for planned obsolescence. If you remember the OpenLabs Niko all in one Computer, Midi Controller, Audio interface in the box. You will see what I mean. That product ended up as a flop and the company went out of business.
@@eman0828 Actually I'm building my desk with rack spaces, and with some 500 racks for the six channels I'm planning to buy. Just saying it would be cool to have an 500 rack from SSL, maybe with faders and digital routing. I don't know how could such a thing be obsolete.
@@sanc85 SSL does make 500 series outboard gear. They just recently put out a new eq, pre amp etc. Digital products become obsolete as technology changes and the software or drivers may render the hardware obsolete once out of support. It's also not cost effective cramming all that into one unit. Argosy Console and Sterling Modular are replacing a lot of those traditional large format analog recording consoles as Hybrid is taking over. Very few people mix on an SSL or Neve anymore. Dave Pensado owns an Argosy Dual 15 while Tony Maserati owns a Sterling Modular desk. They both use to mix on an SSL back in the day.
SSL stuff is just too expensive for the average hobbyist, which is at least 90% of the recording market. They've understood that with the SSL2 but it's not enough.
What the SSL Live gets so fantastically right is its setup smarts. The software team at SSL is running on a whole ‘nother level from just about everyone. What you are looking for replaces the very best bits of that setup intelligence with lots of panel space, and I just don’t see them thinking that’s the way to go. It’s too much hardware commitment and I can just hear the bitching about the choices they make. I’ll bet they’re justifiably afraid of that inevitability. I like your concept but believe they would do much better to keep that brilliant drag and drop software screen design thing going. Lots to think about for sure.
On the money as always guys. Happy as I am with my Presonus series III (as an interface, live mixer and control surface) It's not perfect and It certainly would be fab for company such as SSL to come up with a really well-thought out solution (pretty much as you outlined). Imagine if the Avid S6 had pre-amps. You'd literally have to sell the wife and kids for scientific experiments to get the readies. (Don't get me started on analogue. Is anyone seriously mixing on an analog desk anymore?)
I’ve been wishing this for years. I bought a Mixed Logic M24 15 years ago, which never really worked properly. Nowadays I have a Faderport 8 and a Console One which is as close as you can get at the moment. This idea is definately missing from the market. Hopefully SSL are listening 😉
@@officialWWM I have, but the integration with Studio One is much higher with a Faderport 8 or 16. Control of plugin parameters and macros etc. I use the Faderport 8 and Console 1 in tandem with a 40 channel Soundcraft Spirit large format console for that one knob per function speed and muscle memory, but also have the automation and control of the DAW with the controllers.
@@NoQualmsTheArtist Sorry. If you're not British, and didn't watch the show Line of Duty, then you wouldn't get that, well, attempt at humour! (It was that part of the mystery revived round a criminal "mastermind" who consistently misspelt 'DefinAtely' rather than DefinItely)
Hey guys, love your video here. Where could I get more information about a complete build with all the components you talk about here? Also, do you know if a build like this would allow me to use Neve preamps? Thanks!
Hey Doug, it doesn’t exist yet! We’re hoping this is the direction in which SSL are heading with their UF8 and UC1 controllers.... and if it is, it’s LONG overdue!
And yes, the analogue options would be based on 500 series racks, so you could populate them with whatever mic pres, EQs and other 500 series modules took your fancy. If we had our way with it, anyway!
I really don't see the point of this. You can already do all this stuff with a DAW control surface, analog outboard and an ergonomic desk like the Argosy Halo as a Hybrid console. The desk its self is the console with everything installed and integrated. Argosy Console is actually the original creator of the Console Enclosure desks that allows you to integrated an existing mixer or smaller format cut down console inside the desk with side bucket modules to drop in your analog outboard. They make them for large format DAW control surfaces like the AVID S6. The largest format console desk that Argosy makes is the 64 fader Eclipse.
@@PresentDayProduction Hello. I think he meant Cranborne Audio with this: www.thomann.de/fr/cranborne_audio_500adat.htm?glp=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjwnueFBhChARIsAPu3YkRgDTCTTulbmmvqmz-KUTpr264rtU8lki1kClAkWTtcv7A7pDK6C2oaAnb8EALw_wcB
It’s this one. Audio interface, analog summing with 500 series modules. www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/CA500R8--cranborne-audio-500r8-usb-audio-interface-and-8-slot-500-series-chassis
