Great casting over all, Mr. Schwimmer earned my respect as an actor in this series. It is hard to play bad guys in movies/series and not fall into clichés
apparently the casting of david schwimmer was criticized by some at the time, but having him in from the start would have got a lot of people watching who might not have otherwise.
In the BOB series, the scene where Sobel is re-assigned to train another unit just before D-Day is heartbreaking. Schwimmer played it perfectly. He made us see a guy who tried to do everything right, but was blindsided by his own shortcomings. Not being able to read a map is a big problem for a military officer, but it was his inability to improvise and adapt that was his biggest fault. That tripped up Sobel in later life too. Like a lot of WWII veterans, he was surprised and confused that his children rejected everything he had ever valued and worked towards. Sobel's inability to adapt to the shifting social landscape of the 60s cost him his family. That's truly sad.
@@BroadswordsYup. In the many interviews and behind the scenes documentaries it has been stated that the producers and staff tried casting people who were similar to the real heroes. Even the real WWII vets remarked on it.
I like to think Sobel and Winters did an unintentional "good cop-bad cop". "Sure, I'll parachute into France, as long as I don't have to run up that fucking mountain anymore."
Capt. Sobel , was a petty tyrant ; just what was needed to train soldiers. He was a nitpicker, but that made his troops attentive to details, necessary for success in combat. A good training officer does not, and in Sobel's case, did not, translate into a good combat leader, and that's exactly where Easy Company was going. He couldn't read a map, and his tactical abilities were lacking. In the modern corporate world, Sobel created what we now call "a hostile work environment" which was bas enough to spark a mutiny by his NCOs, whose job it was to make sure Sobel's orders were carried out. For that to happen the commander must be pretty bad. Major Winters, in contrast, proved that a commander does not have to be dirty, mean and nasty to his men. Every combat leader should be like Winters.
Neither Sobel nor Winters would make it far in today's US military. They were both far too hard on the troops. Sobel especially would've gotten booted out after forcing them to run up the hill and yelling at them by making racist jokes at people's names or fat shaming thier figures.
David Schwimmer did such a great job, portraying captain Sobel, that it was a significant period of time before I could enjoy his work again. That is the mark of a truly gifted actor.
@@slowery43 That's the whole point of being a great actor. We all know they're acting, but if I'm being reminded of it while watching the movie then someone has done a piss-poor job on or behind the camera.
And private nursing homes are just as shit. My mom suffered it for less than 4 months and died due to severe dehydration, she was only in there to regain ability to walk better; and go back home with dad and my brother. It only takes 2 to 3 days to become lethally dehydrated. The hospital she was taken to after her personal doctor examined her and questioned the sanity of the manager of the nursing home, that hospitals phlebotomist said he had never seen such high sodium levels. Our medical in the USA is probably among the worst in the world, only propounded by the rich oligarchs as the best in the west because they have unlimited money bags to pay for in home nursing, and or the best surgeons and gang surgeons waiting on them hand and foot. Rest of us, get the scabs.
@@jmitterii2 Sorry about your mother but, I've been overseas and socialized medicine is not the way to go. Just ask our neighbors up north what they think of their socialized medicine and how much it costs them in additional taxes. Ask them how long it takes to get anything done.
Band of Brothers is a series worth watching, not once or twice but many times! Stephen Spielberg did a wonderful job of highlighting the efforts of E Company, from its inception to the final days of the wars end. I have much respect to those brave men who fought and died.
They did Norman Dike dirty though and I can't forgive that. Dike was awarded a Bronze Star for his action at Uden, Holland, with the 101st Airborne Division between 23 and 25 September 1944, in which he “organized and led scattered groups of parachutists in the successful defense of an important road junction on the vital Eindhoven (sic)-Arnhem Supply Route against superior and repeated attacks, while completely surrounded." Dike was awarded a second Bronze Star for his action at Bastogne, in which "he personally removed from an exposed position, in full enemy view, three wounded members of his company, while under intense small arms fire" on 3 January 1945. In preparation for the 13 January 1945 attack on Foy, Belgium, E Company was attached to the 3rd Battalion, 506th PIR. Division Headquarters ordered the attack to begin at 0900 hours. During the assault, Carwood Lipton, at that time the company's first sergeant, described Dike as having "fallen apart." Clancy Lyall stated that he saw that Dike had been wounded in his right shoulder and that it was the wound, not panic, that caused Dike to stop. Dike survived the assault, and eventually returned to the rear in the company of a medic. Afterwards, he was transferred to 506th Regimental Headquarters to become an assistant operations officer. Dike then moved on to become, as a captain, an aide to General Maxwell Taylor, Commanding General, 101st Airborne Division. He later served in the Korean War.
Your right, I have it on now. If the film represented a fair illustration of Sobel, then he was a problem, some say the end justifies the means. For the first time I noticed that while he was busting balls running Currahee he didn't break them like he thought he would in fact the men rose above it and broke out in song. Sobel's face expressed surprise and fear. The fact they jelled and rose above pain, and mind games is a tremendous accomplishment and reflects on Sobel. He looked like a father that wasn't able to cause pain by spanking. No disrespect intended. He helped make the world free for democracy. That expression still gives me chills.
I had a First Sergeant like this. He liked to yell and threaten people with Article 15's. It wasn't leading, it was throwing a temper tantrum. The CSM and CO had finally had enough of him and relieved him of command. He disappeared never to be seen again. I have no idea what happened to him, but everyone breathed a sigh of relief that he was gone.
takes a man to lead men not some homlets who got their ranks with connections..my dad was a good officer because he was one of them, in his mountaineering units they were all farmboys as he was, his platoons master sergeant became my sisters godfather, in my country we were over 8-10 years in the same units being reserves doing 3 weeks every year after military-NOC and officer school which was 4 months each national service was from age 18-55 for us..
Sounds like my last 1SG. One of the shittiest ones I ever had and he thought because he had jump wings, is shit didn't stink and he was God's gift to soldiers. He was an ass. So much so I can't even remember he name, but can remember all but one other from my 8 yrs.
@@paulcook3275 Then why are they called Command Sergeants Majors? I know the ones I had sure ran things. The Colonel rarely got involved unless it was necessary. And in the case of this particular 1SG, it was.
As someone who graduated from Infantry Officers' Candidate School (OCS) and spent a year as a platoon leader and convoy commander with the 4th Infantry division in 1968-69 the importance of being able to read a map and land navigation is of the utmost importance. Land navigation was the most important skill taught and given the most time during OCS.
Believe it or not, I learned it in the Boy Scouts in the early 1960's. It was called "Map Reading and Orienteering" back then. Those skills have served me well over my lifetime, and not just during my years on active duty.
I personally believe that, given his highschool, college and OCS scores, he had dyslexia. That's why he was so good at and focused on accounting. Most dyxlexics can count their numbers better than they can read their ABC's. There were also reports of him getting turned sideways on a map, like he couldn't tell the difference between east and west. Well, to a dyslexic, E and W would do that. He always got the numbers right though, he'd just lose direction every now and again and get lost. I also believe he had ADHD. He was extremely high strung and reports state he was also very gung-ho. No patience. Couldn't sit still. He would rather charge right into ambushes and take his chances instead of setting up his own picket lines then waiting for the enemy to probe. He shouldv'e commanded an air cav unit to go tearing ass around 'Nam with, actually.
In a time before modern special forces, Sobel essentially created his own version of BUDS or SF selection. He was a hell of a training officer but just lacked the instincts and quick thinking of a capable combat officer. It's unfortunate that either the US didn't recognize this at the time, or Sobel himself didn't recognize this. There is a role for everyone in the military and there was certainly one for Sobel... an extremely important role that could have yielded a very proud and long service history.
Terrific, very mature analysis, but I'm not sure I agree that there's a role for everyone in a combat unit. In fact, I know there isn't. The failure of the programs of Robert MacNamara in Vietnam to integrate marginal I.Q. draftees into combat units is one proof.
@@flparkermdpc Or the waivers that were introduced in 2006 for the Army to cope with the troop surge in 2007-2008. We had meth labs in the barracks, stabbings, heroin overdoses, and other shit that I can't remember. I mean, at least those guys wind up getting kicked out and don't deploy. But the ones who just squeak by and DO deploy can be just as bad, especially in an infantry company. We had some real all-stars in my 07 deployment. Fortunately, we didn't take much contact because we were basically paying the militia leaders to leave us alone
My father (a 20-year USAF Air Policemen from 1948-68) talked a bit about one of his favorite Overseas Commanders. He had been an Airborne Officer who didn't do well in his first engagement in Normandy in 1944 due to issues in making critical decisions under fire during the confusion caused by botched Airborne landings. After some discussions by higher ups, he was transferred to the MPs and turned out to be an excellent Military Policemen. He switched to new separate Air Force Service in 1948 and eventually became a senior ranking Air Police officer. Some people just aren't meant to Combat Infantry Officers. Dad said the man knew the regulations and laws and how to apply them fairly with his men and suspects. He also he got along well with the local authorities to maintain discipline and prevent problems on both on and off of Air Force bases. He wore his Airborne Wings and his one combat jump on his Air Force uniform, in addition to a bronze star and a purple heart. He wasn't a coward or a bad leader, he just didn't adapt to Combat very well as a leader. I believe Captain Sobel had the same issues. He got flustered during high pressure situations and wasn't great at making critical combat decisions.
I agree 100%. The problem is that the Court "Marshal", refusal(s) to salute Winters, making up false Infractions, andvassigning his best squad leader to Kitchen Patrol looks like it was something _more._ He took things too personally. I still think that we who didn't serve are in less a position to be causality condemning him, like so many do.
This is a very good point, that it takes a certain kind of person to be able to lead troops in combat, but that doesn't mean they can't serve well in a different capacity.
I'm a former Staff Sergeant who became a Regular Army officer. One First Sergeant of mine summed things up more simply; he said there were two types of leaders in the military... "People Pushers" and "Paper Pushers." Both types are necessary, but putting any leader in the wrong job was always a failure.
Please remember that the only source for the Court Marshal and look away/non-salute is Dick Winters. Also remember that Winters admitted that he relayed the worst possible image of Sobel to Stephen Ambroes he possibly could. I read Guarnere and Geffron's book and they did not seem to have the hatred of Sobel that Winters & Ambroes would have us believe. There is also the issue of men who served under Sobel later and seemed to like and respect him.
Wisdom on the part of that First Sergeant. I was lucky to serve under officers that were well placed leaders. I used Band of Brothers techniques on my troops to create a unit mentality, they "removed" those who did not fit in. There is no shortage of reassignment options. It was better for them and better for the Corps.@@mnpd3
I'm a British veteran. We had two troop sergeants that were a Sobel and a Winters. The one with Dick Winters skills got far more out of us than the one with Sobels lack of skills. Officers like Sobel cost lives.
This is an attempt to whitewash a bastard. Anyone with rank can force their men to jump through hoops 24/7, there are thousands of examples of that being done going back hundreds of years. Are we to believe that Easy Company was head and shoulders above every other company in the US Army? They obviously were not. More to the point, the men who made up the majority of the Company a year after D-Day were probably not under Sobel's command at any time in their service. They would have been trained by others. Others who were complete soldiers, not jumped up gym bunnies.
Reading a map, and assessing it quickly, is vital for all military leaders. Several Cadets I served with were bounced early because of failure in Orienteering. People like that are the kind that call Arty on their own unit.
And in life, how often do we discover the difficulty of putting people into one simple box, only to discover, upon reflection, nuance and subtleties we initially overlooked. Good piece!
It is a sad story, he gets starved to death at a nursing home for veterans. My cousin, not a veteran, did not want to go to one of civilian nursing homes because he said in Polish: "I rather die than to go to one of these concentration camps." Why do people who try to kill themselves put the gun in their mouth and blow off their jaw? In his case, he did it wrong beaus he aimed at at a shallow angle. He ended up blind. Sad story.
Back in the 1990's I got shot in the abdomen. The bullet entered on my left side about at the 5 O'Clock position and 3 inches from my belly button. It went through both intestines, clipped my bladder, fractured my pelvis before exiting my right rear thigh. Yes it took the scenic route, so needless to say I made a trip to the hospital. I was put in a two bed room by myself which lasted one day. They had put an attempted suicide in the bed next to me. Like you said, he put a gun ( .357 mag) in his mouth and pulled the trigger and blew his lower jaw off. So he was awake and aware and they had him on some machine ( something to do with humidity with tube running in his mouth. Since he could not talk, he wrote on paper to his mother who visited all the time. But when my wife and daughter visited, he would reach over and change the setting on that machine filling the room with the smell of rotting flesh. After my wife and daughter left, he would turn it back down. He would not touch that machine if his mother was in the room. One day my wife came to visit and he did his thing with the machine and it was so bad we had to leave the room. So wife helps me out of bed and helps push my 2 IV poles and 3 catheter bags. To get out of the room we had to pass his bed by the door, I can walk but very slowly and with pain. I stopped at the foot of his bed: Wife: " Are you ok?" Me: " Yes. Are you coming tomorrow?" Wife: " Yes, why?" Me: " I need you to bring me something." Wife: " What is it?" Me: " Bring me my .44 magnum." Wife: " Why do you need that?" Me; " If this bastard keeps messing with the machine when I have visitors, I'll shoot him between the fucking eyes and finish the job he failed at." The look on what was left of his face was priceless. Next day my wife is visiting and he did not touch that machine. His mother came in and he started scribbling on his pad and showed it to her. She looks over at me with the most hateful look/scorn on her face. " Yes I said it." then told her what he was doing.
How ironic that Lt. Winters indirectly saved his life. Had Winters just accepted Sobel's petty punishment and not requested a trial by court martial, then there wouldn't of been the rebellion so to speak, by the NCO's that subsequently opened Col. Sink's eyes and forced him to take action himself and transfer Sobel from Easy Company thus it would've been him and not Lt. Meehan on the plane that went down.
Or if sobel stays, Winters doesn't become a battalion commander with a drunk for a staff officer that probably subsequently got men killed due to shit planning. Lots of variables to determine a different outcome positive or negative.
Nice approach. I knew a handful of junior officers in the Viet Nam buildup, that were reminiscent of Sobel. They believed discipline and regulations would compensate for lack of experience. I too was overmatched, but was fortunate to be “adopted” by a grizzled crew of senior non coms, all WW2 and Korean vets. They let me lead, but we’re there to keep me from getting over my head. It’s my belief that this tradition is what American Armed Services predictably stronger.
This is precisely the approach often taken in the British forces. A newly commissioned Lieutenant work with an experienced Sergeant Major who will say "Good morning, Sir. This morning, Sir, you will order me to do this, that and the other, and that way we will have no foul-ups, Sir." "Very good, Sergeant Major. Carry on".
NCO's aren't there to lead men (that's the officer's job), but to maintain the integrity and cohesion of the unit and educate both the enlisted and their leaders. But in a pinch, they can lead, if the officers are incapacitated or killed. My great uncle (A WWII Marine NCO) had to take over several times during the war, when his unit's officers were wounded, killed, or just mentally exhausted. He was offered battlefield promotion several times and refused as he wanted to stay with his men. If the war had continued after Okinawa (his last battle) he would have been battle promoted for Operation Olympic as part of an expansion of his Marine Division (whether he wanted it or not.).
Many company commanders eventually had to learn, although some never did, was that the company was 'owned' by the First Sergeant, and the officers were allowed to lead the unit, within limits. If they [officers]lost the confidence and support of the NCOs, the company would spial downward as things weren't completed on time or crisply enough and all of these little flea bites were soon noted by senior leadership and often reflected upon the company commander in the form of his Officer Efficiency Report [OER].
@@marks1638 think what you like....the army will run fine without officers but will not run at all without NCOs...I'm speaking from 12 years in the australian infantry
Sobal is a good example of 'trying to put a glove on a foot'. Although he wasnt meant to lead soldiers, he was quite capable of making them. A good enterprise recognizers a persons traits, and uses them accordingly.
Believe it was in an interview that Stephen Ambrose, author of the book "Band of Brothers," gave in which he called Sobel a "bullshit officer," the type to punish the smallest infraction with an overblown negative retaliation. I think another word that pertains to that sort of leader is "martinet."
In my organization when I want to think about how to handle an underperforming subordinate I start by asking if it's an ability problem or a motivation one. How you handle them is very different. Sobel's situation after the training was over, as we understand it, was ability (he had loads of motivation) and in that case it's actually their leaders fault for putting them in the wrong position or not getting them properly trained.
I knew many of the Band of Brothers men personally. I was an Army Paratrooper in the 82nd (2/504), enlisting in the early 90's. After my medical retirement I even went to the same VA Hospitals that Bill Guarnere (Philadelphia) and Major Winters (Lebanon) went to. It's been very sad to see them passing on over the years
I'm glad they were able to speak to a'many Infantrymen before they went to The Great AA in the Sky. 25th ID (Hawaii) hosted a few of the E/1/506th guys back in ~2007. They were treated like rockstars (and deservedly so!).
I learned good leadership skills from excellent NCOs. When I got commissioned after having been an NCO for 6 years, it was a smooth transition. You can have high standards, but having witnessed some officers who had poor leadership impacted me positively.
Sobel is a divisive character. If he had had a personality (and the ability to read a map), imagine how powerful a character he would have been in that period.
Being the 506th's Supply Officer was very suitable for him. And he probably did a good job. Having and getting the right kind(s) and quantities of supplies (bullets, beans, bandages, commo equipment, etc.) is a vital part of the entire system!
As a young man the thought of dying in combat as opposed to dying alone in some dilapidated nursing home doesn't sound quite so bad.. The fact that MANY men of our troops from ww2 ended up this way is an unforgivable blemish on our countries history.
That's the business of war. Our esteemed leaders are more worried about sending hundreds of billions to the ukriane rather than spend a fraction of that nursing our veterans. Richest country in the world and we have veterans going around hat in hand begging for donations through charity groups like wounded warrior. Don't mourn the dead, they're in a better place now. Mourn guys like 40 year old iraq war veteran John Unkown drinking himself to death and unable to sleep due to his "PTSD" or the 80 year old vietnam vet sitting alone waiting to die in some nursing home that nobody comes to visit.
Yeah,great thinking when your alive covered in your best friends remains on a battlefield maybe you’ll think a little harder about such ignorant statements
My time in the Army in 18 month period we had 5 or 6 different CO'S , and the only one we had that worth a darn was an infantry captain and he knew what was going on .
For the record, On D-Day, Sobel parachuted into Normandy with the rest of the 101st Airborne Division as commander of the 506th's service company. Immediately after landing, Sobel assembled four men and destroyed a German machine gun nest with grenades before joining the rest of the division near Carentan.
I,too, was a soldier; After the war, no matter who you dislike and after that was said and done, The most honorable way to is to say good things about your "enemies"................
Hating your training officer or NCO is the bedrock of bringing a group of civilians into group bonding. The tougher the training the tougher the soldier and the bond. A failure of leadership does not make a fine trainer any less important in the military.
All I’ve read indicates to me that he was an excellent training commander because the Soldiers he was responsible for became arguably the most hardened Soldiers of the time. But he couldn’t inspire people, except for negative inspiration (“I don’t want to be like that guy”) and he couldn’t adapt to changes in the mission or challenges along the way. Edit: It’s truly unfortunate that he met his end the way he did. Nobody deserves that.
not me in training all our company ncos and officers were top guys yes they could be tough on you in training but they knew how to wind it down so we knew it wasnt them personally it was just to toughen up. i was gutted when i left basic i never got the tough treatment strangely probably because i was a reserve before regular so i never messed up. my sergeant was the best sergeant ever and this was way before the army went woke.
@@andymiller6661 I agree!! But it seems he served well after he jumped into France. Or that's what was reported by one person. I'd like to know what his full combat experience was.
He could've realized the world keeps getting progressive and being stuck in his ways wasn't worth losing his whole family, so, if I was his son, I could've asked for him to be a better dad. Also, did you know the generation before "The Greatest Generation" didn't think they were all that great? Look at what was said about them. “Parents themselves were often the cause of many difficulties. They frequently failed in their obvious duty to teach self-control and discipline to their own children.” - Problems of Young People, Leeds Mercury, 1938 “We defy anyone who goes about with his eyes open to deny that there is, as never before, an attitude on the part of young folk which is best described as grossly thoughtless, rude, and utterly selfish.” - The Conduct of Young People, Hull Daily Mail, 1925 “Cinemas and motor cars were blamed for a flagging interest among young people in present-day politics by ex-Provost JK Rutherford… [He] said he had been told by people in different political parties that it was almost impossible to get an audience for political meetings. There were, of course, many distractions such as the cinema…”- Young People and Politics, Kirkintilloch Herald, 1938 “The Chairman alluding to the problem of young people and their English said his experience was that many did not seem able to express or convey to other people what they meant. They could not put their meaning into words, and found the same difficulty when it came to writing.” - Unable to Express Thoughts: Failing of Modern Young People, Gloucester Citizen, 1936 "I heard somebody say the other day that everybody was getting too darned lazy and nobody wants to work anymore. That's the truth if I ever heard it." - 1952 Alabama newspaper The Evergreen Courant "The trouble is everybody is on relief or a pension - nobody wants to work anymore." - Wisconsin Gov. Julius Heil 1940 "What is the cause of unemployment and hard times? The manufacturer and business men say it is because nobody wants to work anymore unless they can be paid enough wages to work half of the time and loaf half of the time. The working man says that hard times are caused by the determined stand the employers have made to beat down wages. Now why is it these things exist during a Republican administration?' - 1922, The Mulberry News in Kansas "Faced with a shortage of labor when unemployment is widespread, peach orchardists in York and Adams counties are complaining that, 'Nobody wants to work anymore.' There is work, it is reported, for 15 to 25 peach pickers in every orchard in the two counties, but only two to five pickers are at work because of the unavailability of labor." - 1937, The Gazette and Daily newspaper in York, Pennsylvania “Probably there is no period in history in which young people have given such emphatic utterance to a tendency to reject that which is old and to wish for that which is new.” - Young People Drinking More, Portsmouth Evening News, 1936 “How to bring young people into membership of the Church was a pressing problem raised at a meeting… Sunday School teachers in the audience had found that children were apt to leave Sunday School when they had completed their day school education. They were not following on into the church.” - Why Do Young People Neglect Religion?, Shield Daily News, 1947 “…in youth clubs were young people who would not take part in boxing, wrestling or similar exercises which did not appeal to them. The ‘tough guy’ of the films made some appeal but when it came to something that led to physical strain or risk they would not take it.” - Young People Who Spend Too Much, Dundee Evening Telegraph, 1945 “It’s an irony, but so many of us are a cautious, nervous, conservative crew that some of the elders who five years ago feared that we might come trooping home full of foreign radical ideas are now afraid that the opposite might be too true, and that we could be lacking some of the old American gambling spirit and enterprise.”- The Care and Handling of a Heritage: One of the “scared-rabbit” generation reassures wild-eyed elders about future, Life, 1950 That almost looks like what people say about kids today, huh? It's the same narrative, parents not doing a good job of disciplining their kids, kids are rude and selfish, no one wants to work, younger people leaving the church, technology is making kids dumb and lazy, lack of men taking part in combat sports, kids not caring about history, etc. It's all the same rhetoric that seems to just get kicked down from one generation to another in order to point fingers as to why things aren't perfect. Some of those comments came after WWII, so, they didn't even care about the vets then. People really thought what we now call the greatest generation was gonna be the downfall of society and now boomers and gen-xers are doing the same to the youth of today.
He was, in the eyes of the people that he commanded, a real SOB -BUT - by commanding the way that he did, he whipped Easy Company into a real Band of Brothers. He trained them to survive, and, in my opinion, he did a damn fine job.
We all had a Sobel. Maybe they drove us to try harder, could be. In my memories as a crewman those tyrants made us tighter by making us take care of and watch out for each other. We became brothers on mission and at play. Could be the Sobels showed us where the lines and pushed us to be better.
At 11:07 there are two photos side by side. The photo on the right is David Schwimmer as Sobel. The photo on the left is, I believe, supposed to be a photo of the real Sobel during WW2 but it appears to be a German officer instead. Wondering if anyone else noticed that!
My dad was with the USMC 1st Division in 1942 on Guadalcanal. He always said he trusted his XO with his life more than his CO. He never talked about his combat experience, but seeing this story of Sobel and Winters makes it easy to understand.
There's discipline, and hard training (as a retired US Marine I think I can say I've experienced, and dispensed both) but there's also "to much". In basic training, turning raw civilians into basically trained/qualified troops pushing hard and being exacting has it's place and use. But post basic training is mostly about obtaining knowledge and refining skills, for that you need to teach more then demand.
When I served in the army, we had an expression dealing with officer like him. We would say, "Mind Over Matter.. they don't mind, and we don't matter..". Most men like him were vain glory Seekers, think General Mark Clark. His attitude wasn't for the benefit of his men, it was for the benefit of his career!
@@thomasbest8599 the survival of Easy Company depended on that Sobel wasn't in command, he would have been finished off by one of the NCO's if he would have jumped with Easy.
@@thomasbest8599 the Germans had a word for people like Sobel in military training, they called em SCHLEIFFERS =Grinders, you can't be a grinder and then being part of the troops in war situations..the chances you get finished off by the soldiers you tyrannized especially whn you are as incompetent as Sobel are great.
Mark Clarke should have been sacked and court martialled for opting to 'liberate' the OPEN city of Rome, thus permitting a large body of German troops to avoid being cut off and captured. The Germans then established another defensive line, which cost lots of allied lives. Clark put personal 'glory' and boosting his own ego above professional military duty. He was a disgrace, but was never held accountable for it.
Ill never forget Band of Brothers. I was on my way to combat training and got as far as Houston Texas when the airlines shot down because they were under attack. A Marine family saw me in uniform and took me in for a month! I watched the whole HBO Band of Brothers series. By the way my plane ticket was 09/11/2001.
my sisters ticket been on the same day, but she stood just 1 week longer in the USA before flying back to Europe.. i stayed a few more weeks, been wondering why the Americans wondering they got attacked... been from Europe, best of my class in History, i knew a lot of stuff the USA did wrong the last 200 years and also well informed what the USA did after WW2, so i just wondered why it took them so long to strike back against the USA! i understood their motivation, while no supporting their methods! i am sure, you will not know how the USA and UK destroying the Iranian democracy to replace it with the emperor wich got replaced by the mad religious you have so plenty in the USA, too!
That is how I remembered when it aired. Sept 9, 2001 was the premier, only to be delayed for part 3 due to 9/11. I think it took almost the better part of a week to get back to airing it.
He was a complicated individual, his tyrannical leadership style more than likely saved lives , but was his undoing, unfortunately the VA of the era failed him , he probably wasn't an evil man , just misunderstood, at this point only God can judge him, my own thoughts are I myself , while im uniform, ive encountered this type of officer, most are wanna be dictators , others are assholes with a purpose, theyre hated but force you to conform , which could save your life , RIP Capt Sobel, you saved lives
Im a Veteran myself and heard he was in a VA Facility in Illinois and died of malnutrition???? How did happen?? Now I understand that the VA was very different from today, but still dying of malnutrition in the late 80s like he did??? Im a disabled Vet myself , live in a VA facility also and we are treated like family by staff, Thank God.
He wasn't a leader. Easy Co. had great platoon leaders, NCO's and soldiers. Had not the men under him been great, Easy Co. would've been and unmitigated disaster.
@@ffjsb You are missing something. So let me point it out to be a devils advocate. Sobel did not push those men so hard from the sidelines. His physical training was harsh, but he also did it, beside those men. He did not stand on a grandstand, or drive alongside them in a jeep, he pounded the ground at the same time they did. That is worth remembering. Would Sobel have been a good combat commander? I do not think so, but that does not make him a bad trainer, if if you personally do not agree with his techniques. The men of Easy Company were amongst the fittest troops anywhere in the world when they went into action. That physical fitness was one of the things that helped keep the survivors alive. Physical fitness is not an inconsequential thing on the battlefield.... A modern army needs a lot of different types of commanders, obviously you want good combat commanders, but you also need good logisticians, good trainers, good staff officers. You can be an excellent Logistics officer and a terrible Combat officer, a superb combat officer and a terrible staff officer, but that does not remove the very simple fact that you need ALL of them.... Sobel was not a good combat officer, he was however a very good training officer, and most likely would have been an absolutely superb logistics officer....
@@alganhar1 He didn't really "train" them, he just punished them with physical workouts. The vast majority of training is done by NCO's, NOT officers. Sobel was also a student at jump school, not the trainer. How can you train men for combat when you're terrible at tactics, and can't read a map????
Having been in the USAF, I came away from Band of Brothers with the conclusion that Sobel was a good trainer but lacked the skills for field command. As hard as he was, combat was harder and if a troop couldn't handle his training they had no chance of surviving combat. The Airborne was was going to be the toughest job in the Army so the men had to be tough. My training was relatively easy, and the TI's in basic said it was be cause most of us were going to be in tech jobs not battle field, so we spent most of basic in class rooms. He trained them for their mission, people who didn't serve will definitely come away with a different outlook.
David Schwimmer’s acting skills were incredible. From Friends to Band of Brothers , such totally opposing roles, he was excellent. One could not despise Captain Herb Sobe as he was portrayed. This video does a great job explaining his successes and failures and his impact on Easy company. I hated Sobel as his character was perceived in the docuseries but with all of his failings he was certainly instrumental in the development of Easy Company. He seemed to find peace in his family after the war, let’s hope so.
Very well done. Good to know the rest of the story. CPT Sobel and the rest of the greatest generation, thank you for what you all did to protect our freedom.
Sobel could train them, but he could not lead them...remember Lincoln's problem with McClellan & how he solved it with Grant...Winters was a natural leader...that is why the men gravitated to him...
Watching David Schwimmer in this role gave me a whole new respect for him as an actor just as Robert Vaughans role in Bullitt did.Superb acting on both accounts.
I have mixed feelings on Sobel. He was the perfect man to train young men for what they were about to encounter. He was just the wrong man to actually lead them into battle. I had a CO in Germany in the late seventies early eighties who worked our butts off, didn't have a day off for over 3 months in one stretch. I hated that man. Later in life I realized I loved the guy. If not for him I may have never had the career I had. FYI I was stationed in the Brigade that was a a direct descendant of the 506th in the eighties. The most rewarding part of my career.
There are people who are very good in some ways in the job but in other areas totally out of their depth in other areas, particularly when under pressure of a highly volatile environment. Combat requires a leader who is able to quickly adapt and adjust to the challenges that combat throws up. There are people in other professions who are the same as Sobel
It is sad that he wasn't the total package ..With the legend of what E company has become he would have gone down in history as one of the best of all time. Imagine if he drew from other line officers instead of alienateing them.
Watching the series,I always felt that while he was hated, he was probably exactly what the unit needed during trainup. The hard assed, drill to perfection and physical training to the point of exhaustion, helped prep the guys for the task ahead. He was a GREAT training leader. Now, with him being relieved right before heading to war, it was also the BEST thing in the world for the unit getting a leader they trusted to be a good battle leader.
I do believe that the skills needed to lead people in battle are not necessarily identical to the skills needed to train people for battle. It is possible to be good at one and not the other.
In basic training, there's a teacher and a group of students. While Sobel had some positive traits for teaching, the students had to have a POSITIVE WANT TO LEARN. The men of Toccoa actually had a NEED TO LEARN: do your job right and you continue to LIVE. What's the alternative if lessons for war are not learned and put into practice? Death and/or defeat. It's definitely a PARTNERSHIP, teacher and student.
I agree, he might have been good during training, but he would have been terrible as an actual combat commander. While Winters was just as good as Sobel during training, but a much better combat commander.
Despite Captain Sobels differences in his combat readiness capabilities, he was an honorable US paratrooper with the 101st AB Division...and he served his country honorably. My deepest admiration for him. RIP Captain Soble 🕊 506 PIR 101St ABD
Thank you for that perspective. As a veteran of the USAF watching Band of Brothers I did not like Sobel but I KNEW he was doing military training in, probably the most proficient way possible to be understood in that era. He was ahead of his time.
Sobel was an expert in ability of training. He was also a boob in his ability of command. The first became indispensable for the men of Easy Co.. The other could have led to great disaster for those same men. History has the last say.
There are many lessons in his training. Many lessons in his life and many lessons in his passing. He left a legacy few of us will match, and I personally believe there are many people alive now because of him.
I'm a retired Air Force training officer. As portrayed, Sobel engaged in some stereotypical mal-training. But I have to think there was more to the guy.
I was a army map maker, a topographical surveyor. Had he asked someone to teach him we would have. Maybe the fog of war may have still been to much for him, but it's a thought.
Having served in the active Army for 21+ years as an NCO, I can tell you that Dick Winters was spot on. Sobel was the perfect training officer for E Company. Those types will take you to your limits, both mentally and physically. They don't have to be competent combat leaders to do that. In fact, you don't know who's going to be competent under fire until you're under fire. That kind of stress is completely different than anything you can simulate in a training environment. It's not something you can control any more than the color of your eyes. You either have it, or you don't. I've worked with guys that I thought were top notch, only to find that they came up with bullshit excuses to get out of deployments, or get sent home early from same. Conversely, the same guys you want along side you when the doo doo hits the fan are often not the guys you want to invite over for Thanksgiving dinner or socialize with in any other way. It's a different world. Starting off with a strict disciplinarian like Sobel is a great start, though. This wasn't an admin unit. These men were quite literally, the tip of the spear. That takes special troops with special training. What Sobel gave them was a solid foundation to build on. That alone is worth a salute and a raised glass.
No man is an island, neither was Sobel. To say he was layered would be an understatement. Time allows us to take the good with the bad, maybe even room for understanding.
Those who knew him best (his family abandoned him in the end. Classic narcissistic tendencies - he was never gonna change, and it is just plain exhausting living in their world.
@@CorePathway , There is no denying that he provided the best possible training and it kept a lot of guys alive. Airborne was still a relatively new concept and this man pumped out some hard soldiers. Dick Winters would know and said so himself (as well as many others). I don’t doubt that he was crazy but the results speak for themselves.
@@ffjsb Way to pass judgment based on how a movie portrayed him. You are right in that he deserved what he got ... a Bronze Star and the knowledge that his tough training saved lives. You could only hope to get what he deserved.
You don't have to be the best leader, you just have to know where the talent is below you and use them to get the job done. And then acknowledge their contribution. Sobel never gave his men any respect.
All who serve deserve respect. He drove his men to focus thier anger on one point.........Himself. Thus hammer forging them into one solid fighting unit. Thats the primary goal of leadership. When real bullets start flying, that unified focus will turn on the enemy keeping unit cohesion together.
Even watching the Movie, I was convinced that Easy Companies effectiveness on the battlefield was due to the efforts of Captain Sobel. A Drill Instructors job isn't to make friends with his recruits. His job, first and foremost is to prepare them for combat. They had to learn to think, act and organize as a team in the midst of extreme pressure. They were so well prepared that when combat came, they were well prepared and barely flinched when they had to face their first blooding. Captain Sobel had his shortcomings. One thing he should have done is tell his men, when the training was over that he was proud of the way they handled his deliberate abuse. When the war was won, he could have expressed that he respected them for their performance on the battlefield. It would have gone a long ways to heal the wounds he had as a consequence of losing the command over his inabilities to read maps or lead on the fluid battlefield. David Schwimmer is a divers and talented actor. He did a very convincing job properly representing the part of Captain Herbert Sobel.
Whoa!!! what in the "H" is Werner Moelders being shown next to David Schwimmer at 11:08 !!?? Moelders is a German Fighter pilot ace in the Luftwaffe?! At 11:18 you can see the eagle and swastika on Moelders cap not to mention the Iron cross at his neck. WTF!
A very nice presentation of the life of Herbert Sobel. A lot of back story and context to process for sure. It makes sense that Easy Company was so successful due to Sobel's relentless pursuit for perfection it is sad to see such a man fade away in a sad epilogue of death with no honor at his contributions. Thanks for sharing.
I have to wonder if Sobel had received adequate training in Map Reading and Land Navigation before being given the command of Easy Company. As it turned out, him being relieved of command just before D-Day probably saved many lives but his harsh discipline and strict training had sharpened Easy Company into one of the better fighting units in the ETO. All part of an amazing story of Easy Company.
At the time the part for David Schwimmer, must have been just another job. Having known him from 'Friends', it seemed to be a big change for him, but perhaps in many of our minds he was typecast as 'Ross'. I thought at the time what a difficult role it must have been to play, because he came across as unheroic. I wonder what Mr Schwimmer thinks of that role some 22 years later?
I've watched many interviews with the actors who played the men of Easy Company. The overriding message is they were incredibly proud to represent those heroes. Even the British actors portraying their role with incredible pride.
There's a scene in the series where Sobel walks by without saluting Winters. My dad (who was in the same area of Europe at the same time) was watching the series with me. Before Winters replied, my dad said "You salute the rank, not the man", and then Winters said the very same thing. That made an impact on me.
Uncanny how much David Schw[mmer looks like the real Herbert Sobal. I just rewatched the series, BOB. Took me two days to do it, but it's well worth it.
The problem is when NCO's and Officers are promoted out. We have had several reach 'flag' rank that rode on the skills and work of their subordinates. One factor, creating problems now.
I heartily wish peace for Sobel's soul. Its a tragedy that the man never lived to see the change in sentiment about his role and leadership. Rest in Peace and admiration, Sir.
He might of been an arsehole but there was a method to the madness, intentional or not. Meticulous attention to detail is a skill that must be learned and practiced. As far as his physical training regiment is concerned "Fatigue makes cowards of us all" was a banner hung in the 82nd gymnasium.
The portrayal of Captain Sobel by the Hollyweird producers of 'Band of Brothers' struck me as VERY UNflattering... and I always wondered if his family ever sued them over it?
One of my uncles parachuted into France on D Day. I don't know if he was 82nd or 101st Airborne. I wish I could find out but he died in the late 1990s. He said very little about it despite my prompting. "Just doing our job", he would say.
Some say, he roams the British landscape until this day, trying to make sense of map and compass. Others try to pacify this grim spirit by putting cans of spaghetti at his headstone instead of flowers.
I knew two great officers in my 23 years of active duty. I knew many average officers and a few really incompetent ones as well. The two great ones were able to know their limitations, strengths and how to overcome their shortcomings. They also knew those same things about the men they led and never set up their soldiers for failure.
