@@AB_ATT Yes, I am looking forward to how they will actually frame this. You know - a secret is only a secret when it is not revealed... Or do you beg to differ? :)
"Monkey Island 2"'s tragedy is the commodification of child imagination during the transition from the real-feeling world in the beginning to the fake theme park at the end. A child's imagination is truthful in the mind of the kid, but the industrial theme park is manufactured and only a pale shadow. Still IMHO the best representation of childhood wonder on any medium.
Monkey Island 2 has a few more clues about Guybrush & Chucky's past: -When you try to take a bone from the skeleton of Guybrush's mom, to make the voodoo doll, Guybrush will instead take one from his dad. So this only proves that the person Guybrush calls Dad is related to Chucky, not necessarily to Guybrush as well. Otherwise, you should've been able to take a bone from either skeleton. I mean this is a game that did NOT shy away from programming in a ton of optional actions. -When you examine the quill inventory item Guybrush says "Just like the pen from Mom & Dad's wedding!" How would he remember his parents' wedding? ....unless his mother (re-)married after he was already born... This, coupled with the "orphanage" comment by LeChuck makes me believe that his real parents really DID abandon him as a baby, left him at an orphanage, where he then was adopted by his new Mom, who then married his new Dad, which brought Chucky into his life as his new stepbrother. Maybe his biological parents really did die after that, which would explain them being skeletons.
"Game 1 feels like you're on the ride, and 2 feels like you snuck behind the scenes' Thats the best way I've heard it described. Now Return feels like returning with your kid, and telling them about the fun you had there as a kid
@Hermes I did too. I was very young, though. Like eleven. The jokes landed because I was convinced that anything referencing grown up stuff out of my grasp was funny. That's what happens when you teach yourself to laugh at postmodernism when you're way too young to comprehend the humour. I played MI 1-3 after when I found that CMI with the "Monkey Island Madness" CD-ROM of the first two. The big white edged box. Since then I've interpreted the series as being two different game series in one with CMI being a sort of reboot, and I was about twelve when I got that. Shouts out to the SCUMM Bar website too. Loved reading that back then.
I started with 4 as well. I liked it a lot when I was little. Even as a 9 year old or so, I would then go on the internet and.. **clears throat** PIRATE the other three. And while I obviously think the other 3 are superior, 4 still has a place in my heart. Something about its depiction of the world captivated me, though I can't quite place what. My biggest gripe with it, both as a child and as a 23 year old dude, is that fucking Monkey Kombat. I swear to God it's so annoying, and time consuming.
Even as a kid playing MI1, I had a vague understanding of how the special effect was done on Stan's jacket. It looked cool back then. On the 3D versions though it looks like he's floating in the fucking matrix!
This video really hits the feels! Whenever I remember MI1, it's all about wonder, joy, adventure, discovery! In fact, I can say most of my videogame playing life has been trying to get that feeling again. But MI2 it's just... Sadness, melancholy, a deep longing for don't-know-what. Even seeing that ending again just feels me with sadness. It's just weird. My guess is that the "secret" is not that it was all a dream, but at the same time it was a kid playing around. Ask a kid playing super-heroes, and they'll tell you they are not playing, they ARE the super-hero. They are seeing the world one way while adults see it another way, and both are correct.
Gilbert's Guybrush is a mysterious and deeply troubled hero that your can't wait to watch and help progress through his quest. Like Star Wars, like Indiana Jones; iconically Lucasfilm. You uncover bits of the mystery as you go, including the mystery and hilariousness of Guy, and you can't wait to peel another layer off and take a peak. We never learn what's haunting Gilbert's Guybrush or why, but by the end of MI2 there's no doubt he's fallen hard, and might have gone too far with voodoo spells. There was a plan for this characters arc, and what we got in curse, as summarized *perfectly* in this video, was a "wacky pirate romp". Perfectly fine, but not MI3. The art in Curse was incredible, but the humor hit wrong for me because the formerly deep, developed characters were saccharine, flat and soul-less. Without the mystery or depth, I remember wondering when I was 12, if Curse was written for much younger kids. I'm glad so many commenters loved it, but just understand why some of us refuse to accept 3, 4, 5 as the same world, it's because they're just games. Guybrush is gone and there's no deeper story, just a mug with a hole in the bottom.
That ending gave me chills up and down my spine. Monkey Island was my first point 'n' click: I watched my friend's dad play it on their PC (I think.) I played 2 on the Mac, and literally remember nothing about it other than the library card catalog, the beginning, and that ending. Never even played 3, 4 or 5. Replayed 1 again last year and it blew me away with its wit, humor and charm. I've considered myself a super fan of this series forever, even though I had legitimately played only one of the games. Now I'm looking forward to Ron Gilbert's Return to Monkey Island more than any game since Phantasy Star 1, and still consider myself a super fan.
At one point In Monkey Island, Guybrush gets a dialogue option to ask the lookout if it is possible they're all just fictional characters in a novel. That always stuck with me... like they were trying to tell us something from the get go.
MI 1-3 are still favorites of mine. And admittedly the inclusion of it in the lore of Sea of Thieves, as in the Pirate’s Life you can find journals from Kate Capsize detailing how LeChuck and Threepwood had made their way into the Sea of Thieves and how she is still seeking revenge for framing her, has rekindled my interest. Honestly I am now just hoping that whatever “continuation” it could see would be jumpstarted by a Sea of Thieves expansion.
Very insightful video on one of my favorite game series. Ron Gilbert still wants to make his Monkey Island 3, but sadly Disney refuses to sell the license, even if they're doing nothing with it.
As someone whose always had Monkey Island on my list to get to but kept putting it off, this thoroughly convinced me to get to it sooner than I would have otherwise. Also, I always find it challenging to give a critical eye to comedy-centric things I love, so as always I’m impressed at the level of dissection that explains the appeal without actively undermining it or underselling/overselling it. Good work. Proud of u.
@smylexx Monkey Island is like any relic in that warehouse that appears in the first and fourth Indiana Jones movies. Disney got a ton of franchises and brands that are useless for them and they will be resting in dusty piled boxes in some huge warehouse forever. Nobody will ever make MI see the daylight again.
As an old fart who actually played MI1 and MI2 at times of their release, I must say that anything beyond MI2 didn't really gel with me. MI always had this underlying of darkness and surreal insanity beneath the surface, delightfully goosebumps-inducing, further exemplified with the infamous MI2 ending which back in the day I've found genuinely disturbing but also fascinating. Will the story continue? CAN the story continue? Will it even be a pirate story anymore? Then Gilbertless MI3 and other sequels followed and the series morphed into a wacky pirate romp. No more mystery, no more insanity, no more darkness, just silly cartoony fun. I did play them all but... no goosebumps. :(
MI3, 4, and Tales are great simply because they introduced everyone to the series. MI1 and 2 probably would have no where near this following and appreciation if the three never followed. Having said that, while they may be worse than 1+2, they are still amazing games in their own right.
Same here. Afaict it's also next to impossible to - purely in retrospect - recognize/appreciate the unparalleled atmosphere and immersion the first two installments provided. At the time there essentially was nothing as intriguing and 'vacation-like' as playing MI1/2 in all of (i.e. even non-interactive) digital media...
Interesting, because I agree that that’s a major element of the series but I felt Curse and especially Tales did incorporate that discomforting undertone.
I am just showing the games to three of my friends, starting with the first one, talking them through some ideas behind this and that (without revealing any twists beforehand). Two are having fun for now, one is kind of feeling that this fun-pirate story with anachronistic tendencies ist sort of dull - "what is the point?" So I'm looking forward to the end of LeChucks Revenge. And if that won't catch the third friend, CoMI certainly will: that friend, weirdly, also loves Disney. So if it is whimsical enough, very cartoony and also has some singing in it, they are generally bought on that... There is a Monkey Island for everyone, guys! BUT looking at CoMI: Did you ever notice how this game doesn't know how much Cartoon it wants to be? Through the whole game, the characters' hands sometimes have four and sometimes have five fingers... almost like a symbol for the series slowly turning into a kids show, while being still a bit confused what it wants to be a that point. Look at the hands, you can see it even in this video!
Played through all of the Monkey Island games for the first time this week, after staving them off for years. Your experience and impressions of each of them are so similar to my own. This video was practically therapeutic. Subscribed, thanks so much for making this. I love it but am tortured by the phenomena of a series dropping something so cerebral and serious right in the middle and never quite finding that footing again, often because a real auteur gets in the middle of the corporate, safe choices made to establish it or recover from said auteur. As the fan you are left with an open mystery that is really invigorating but somehow kind of traumatic and, as you put it, sad. This series in particular, in that it’s about a “ride” took me into a very narrow and dark corridor of thinking for all of its fun reputation. So many years after everyone I suppose processed this Monkey Island business, I’m glad I’m not the only one heaping this series onto the list of 2020 to-dos.
This was interesting to watch because it's the first time I've heard an in-depth assessment of MI from someone who didn't play them as they were released. From my perspective, the first two games were the only real MI games. I played (and most others who liked MI played) Curse because it's all we had. I wanted more, and I knew that Lucasarts was still in charge, so it was the next best thing to a *real* MI game. Don't get me wrong, your assessment is spot-on, but nothing surprising. It's a good summation of what most, if not all, MI fans went through with the series. Perhaps the one less-oft talked about point that you touched on it the sad tone of MI2. Despite the popularity of the game, I think the tone of the game echoed the imminent fate of adventure games in general. The fact that a *real* MI3 never got produced is closely linked to the fate of Indiana Jones and the Iron Phoenix. Yes, I know the official reason was that Germany wouldn't release it, but it says a lot that they thought they couldn't recoup costs on an Indiana Jones title in the US alone. Ron Gilbert is a smart cookie. The first two MI games were really great, artistic works that played with a very restrictive game genre in ways that people had not yet seen. They also had a wonderful sense of intelligence behind them, as though there was someone there in the room with you, playing the game with you. There is a sense of interactivity, both playful and warped. You are literally there with Ron Gilbert as he hashes out childhood demons and contemplates the death of the adventure genre that he helped to create, as he plans to leave a sinking ship while he still can. Because he was so smart, he knew it was time to go. Now, if we are really lucky, he will finally get another crack at the game he always should have made, but couldn't because the world wouldn't let him. If Disney is smart, they will dump some cash in his lap and tell him to hire as many of the original dev team as he can and go with it. Or just return the rights to the game to him. More MI games without Ron Gilbert is just going to piss people off.
Nice read, mate. I just have to say one thing: Gilbert will never do it. The risks will be too high. An MI3a would be his Star Wars sequel trilogy, his Indiana Jones 4 (film), his 2nd Blade Runner. He needs to find a story that won't piss people off. Also times have changed and players with them. Ironically, the whole MI series pokes at nostalgia in a lot of ways so that will be hard too. And we should be honest here: Is Gilbert such a genius? I really don't care about all the other games he made oost LucasArts. I never found them interesting, I played some of them and they were simply boring. Maybe I'll give Thimbleweed Park a chance.
@@SisterRose I am very happy! And I'm also ok with being wrong. I do noticed though that my post upthere has a typo. I wanted to say that DISNEY never allow it. And I was sure about it because they were so anti Lucasarts for *years*. Never say never I guess. Not sure if I enjoy the new graphics style that you can see in the trailer but it's deffo better than the Tales... look.
@@Tototoo88 I thought it was good. It could have been better, but it checked most of the right boxes for me. The ending is left up to the imagination of the player in the world of Monkey Island, and it's played out as a pointless McGuffin in the "real world." It's a bit confusing, but it works. My main criticism is that there isn't enough freedom for the player, and there are too many loose ends and story elements that just don't go anywhere. It feels like they tried to make a much bigger game and couldn't cram it all in there. But that's really an overall minor issue to me because I had fun playing the game, and that's the most important thing to me
This exactly why Shigesato Itoi, the writer for the Earthbound series or known in the native Japanese release as ‘Mother’ stopped with Mother 3, the final game in the series. After that whatever goes on behind the scenes decided not to continue it as that's the end, the 3rd game of Mother is a unique experience.
The announcement of Return was what really got me to replay the first two Monkey Island Games, but this video is definitely what started me really wanting to give MI2 another chance. The ending really didn't work for me the first time, but hearing your defense of it helped me appreciate it much more on the second playthrough. I had also completely forgotten what was at the top of the elevator by the time I reached it, so seeing it hit so much harder knowing what was coming.
Finally someone who really gets it! That‘s exactly what Monkey Island is about. It’s not just some silly pirate story… It’s much more than that. Weirder, darker, though-provoking… I’m so excited about Ron Gilbert finally making his version of Monkey 3. If it goes the way it should be going, it will be a masterpiece. I’m sure a lot of people will hate it, but that’s ok, because it will be something unique, what Gilbert truly wanted to tell. And I can’t wait to play it!
This is a really excellent video. I've only ever played the first two Monkey Islands, partly because the sequels weren't as readily accessible, and partly because I felt wholly satisfied by the ending of Monkey Island 2. You absolutely hit the nail on the head re: the melancholy feel of Monkey Island 2, though my lack of familiarity with theme park imagery and mentality didn't allow to pick up on the more subtle flourishes you expertly articulated here. The analogy of it being a game set "behind the scenes" is very apt. The playful relationship both games have to reality has always felt refreshingly honest about how childlike imagination actually works: so often media presents kids' imaginary play as a delusion, a total break from reality, but in actuality, the illusion is conscious and willingly maintained: kids don't actually believe they're pirates searching for the lost treasure of Monkey Island, they know they're just pretending but that doesn't mean we can't still have fun and *believe* in it while we're here. Monkey Island 2, to me, has always felt like a game set at the end of summer, when everyone else is a bit bored of the pirate game, less willing to play along and put up with the kid at the centre of attention until eventually, the willing suspension of disbelief breaks, and we're left back in reality, but still with inklings of that old imaginary adventure dancing around at the edge, waiting for the next time people want to play Pirates again. I'm rambling now, but it's just been great to relive my love of these games through this video. Monkey Island 2 is probably my favourite point-and-click adventure game of all time, and I think I forgot that until now. I think this might actually be my favourite video of yours, and that's saying a great deal considering how much I love your output, generally. Well Done!!!!!
Something that you didn't mention is that Ron said that Guybrush isn't really a child in an amusement park. Which led many to believe that he's an adult in an amusement park who's just insane, Elaine is his psychiatrist he's in love with and Le Chuck is his brother who wants to help him return to reality and he perceives as a threat ("I'll send you to a new dimension of pain!"). Another one I remember is that some voodoo artifact they brought straight up turned the park real, in which Elaine is the owner, Le Chuck is an employee that plays the villain and his brother he gave tickets to for the opening is Guybrush, which is why he's a newcomer to this world. Good video though, you really put well what I like so much about MI2, and thinking about Curse trying so hard to distance itself from MI2, now reminds me of the Last Jedi/Rise of Skywalker situation, in which I also much pefer the former. It's interesting that even so, those MI games without Ron did a pretty good job save for Escape. What I'm trying to say is that Star Wars sucks ass and Monkey Island is the best franchise Lucas ever produced.
A question for the author of this video. Are you excited for RoN Gilbert's Return to Monkey Island or do you feel that it is too much? I'm personally hyped for the MI2 real conclusion very much! I agree, that MI2 feeels somehow sad and melancholic and the mysterious, bitter-sweet ending just reinforces these feelings. I'm very curious to see how Ron Gilbert will follow it up...
This video is very well done. It's a hallmark B-Mask video, talking about older video games, theme parks, childhood, and legacies (the one I'd probably recommend to my friends if I'd want to introduce them to B). My biggest recommendation would be to elaborate on the purple feeling within the second game and the empty opportunities. I think the best phrase for describing your attraction to the second game is "morbid curiosity". An argument for the idea that not all games have to be fun and happy to be worthwhile. There's something engaging about watching something, at one point full of life, decay and fall apart. You talk about the second game being a bit like growing up and becoming disillusioned, which I can agree with, but I think the idea that this realization is tragic is a bit disingenuous. Sure, sometimes we wish we could be a kid again, but sometimes we don't. While anybody is allowed to like any game they want, I think a theoretical third game elaborating on this "inside a pirate theme park" would have been grand.
Excellent retrospective. You really hit the nail on the head how you broke down that the games after 1 and 2 lack subtext. 1 and 2 have such a eerie mysterious quality that the series lost when it became more cartoony and literal with its story.
Just wanted to say you got me into so many new things due to your videos. And made me think about my games in different ways. You even made me think about the Fantastic 4 in new and interesting ways. Nothing related to the current video, just wanted to say thanks for all the great content!
I used to be eager for a final Monkey Island game by Ron Gilbert, but that changed when I played Thimbleweed Park. That game goes out of its way to insult not only the very conceit it's built on, but also the idea that I as a player might be attached to it. I lost any faith that Gilbert would write an even remotely satisfying ending to the series.
Curse is a fantastic game. I've played it more than 20 times already and never got tired of it. I also played the other titles more than once, but everything about it is just perfect.
What do you think of the theory that Guybrush had some sort of horrific trauma as a child and his rich adoptive parents built a theme park with actors purely to keep him in a happy lucid state while he hallucinates?
Had a rough day today, seeing the notification for this made this day a 1000x better. I love your overall execution of these videos and puts a better perspective on some of my favorite series. It’s also so fantastic to hear someone’s opinion so close to mine about some of my favorite games and series.(Sly, MI, Sandiago, Sam and Max, etc... Either way, Thank you for making my day and being my favorite content creator. (P.S.: Plan on supporting you on Patreon when I get my next paycheck)
I hated the MI2 ending when I was a kid but as an adult I get it now and it kinda explains the surreal atmosphere of the games I loved MI3. I think it even works as a standalone story and for me it removed the bitter taste of MI2
I bought MI1 around when it came out in 1990ish - and played it in French. Because at the time my dad lived near Dover and we’d get the ferry to Calais. Picked up a Lucas arts compilation of games in a french supermarket thinking it would have multi-language support. Nope. So I had to, for example, do the sword fighting training section by a few hours of using a process of elimination to find the right responses. And then another chunk of time fighting the Sword Master. I think I finished it though.
I had never seen the interview with Bill Tiller before, and it has blown my mind. The secret was just out there for 17 years, and I never saw it. You're the first RU-vidr to reference it, as fast as I'm aware. Tiller's revelations--that the ending of MI2 was originally planned for MI1, that its implementation in MI2 was a last minute decision, and that it was hastily tweaked to allow for a sequel--are kind of heartbreaking. It lays bare the fact that Gilbert never had any grand vision for the games. He had an actual secret planned for The Secret of Monkey Island but allowed himself to be talked out if it. He used it as the twist in MI2 out of desperation, then chickened out and changed it so that no one had to seriously commit to it. There was clearly never going to be a Gilbert trilogy. He's full of shit. That was the secret this whole time.
That's a little bit of an uncharitable projection. Tiller had a vague idea of what Gilbert was planning, and it's consistent with the blocks of what we know, but the story is from second hand sources and is more illustrative of the attitude people moving forward had with what they were left with, which is why it was necessary to include. It's definitely difficult to get to the bottom of Gilbert's true thoughts, but if you piece together all the interviews and conversations out there, it's clear Gilbert was aiming for a theme park allegory since the start and wanted people to notice the clues (my quote about jokes not actually being jokes is a direct gilbert line). It wasn't about hastily or cowardly doing anything, it was about being realistic about a project he knew might not be in his hands, and getting at least aspark of his concept explicitly in there while he still had a say (from what i've heard, the caveats at the end still fit into his metaphorical take on the first two games.) It's very consistent with his decisions up to that point - again, if you play through enough of one and all of two, it is riddled with allusions to theme park imagery to the point where it's unavoidable, I was very explicit about a lot of them, I didn't assemble the swiss family robinson tree comparison for nothing haha Eventually, Tiller and Gilbert spoke about his plans many years later, in another interview that Tiller did. In that piece, he explained that they did in fact discuss Ron's idea, and he found it really funny and was hoping he got to make it happen. You can find that comment in this interview here : mixnmojo.com/features/interviews/Bill-Tiller-Chat-07/2
@@BMask Thanks for the reply and for the link, I'll definitely check it out. Yeah, maybe I overreacted a bit after I first read the Bill Tiller interview. Perhaps I shouldn't be that hard on Gilbert. It's not like I could have done better.
@@DirtiestDMusic It's okay, I understand the reaction, you're definitely not the only person who feels frustrated with just how difficult it's been to get a real answer, especially from Gilbert. I do think he has a rough plan however and have faith that at the very least it would be SUPER interesting to see pan out.
Good video. Curse of Monkey Island is my childhood and I still think it's a great game. I played it before I played either of the originals, and I enjoyed it for what it was. I loved the lush settings, the music, the puzzles and, yes, the *funny* conversations with characters. I admit the ending falls flat, but the journey is worth it. A bit later in life, I played the first two games and appreciated them in a different way than I did Curse. They're so gleefully, sometimes disturbingly, irreverent (especially 2) that I *loved* them, even when I found the puzzles frustrating. I wouldn't say they hold a higher or lower place in my heart than Curse, but the absurdism of the 2 Gilbert games definitely appeals more to my adult brain than my kid brain, while the reverse is true about the (mostly) straightforward swashbuckling adventure/comedy of Curse. You are absolutely correct that Curse and all games that came after it fail to really pull off continuity with the first two games. I think of the post-Gilbert games as reboots by new creative teams rather than sequels, even if they try to be otherwise. And that's not a total defense of them: I haven't played Tales of Monkey Island at all, and I found Escape to be a real failure of inspiration - even though the creative team on Escape was clearly trying. So, I agree more than disagree with your take here. What I ultimately took from your video is there's probably no satisfying way to either end or continue the Monkey Island franchise. That's probably true. And, honestly, I think Ron Gilbert set it up that way. The ending of LeChuck's Revenge permanently breaks the narrative and you can neither retcon it convincingly, or keep the story going in such a broken state. It's like a toy monkey that punches its own wind-up mechanism out of its chest whenever you start it.
I started with MI3, and loved it. I went back to the previous two later, but I think I watched playthroughs online first. Anyway, the thing that strikes me as odd with the transition between 2 and 3 is that 3 follows up on 2's ending, whereas the intention seems to have been to... not do that? After the scene with Chuckie's eyes flashing, it cuts back to Elaine hoping LeChuck hasn't cast some horrible spell over Guybrush. That's *two* indicators that the scene with them as kids is an illusion. Three if you count Chuckie taking away your dialogue choice. The theme park ending is thematically appropriate, and yet they go out of their way to instantly invalidate it. It's kind of mind-boggling.
Mostly, as mentioned, for the sake of potential sequels regardless of whatever would happen to the franchise. But Ron had an ending in mind for a third game, and there's no indication that the discussion of what's really going on is truly over. It's just getting started. Until MI3 said 'lol nah' anyway
@@BMask I'm more interested in how he was intending to *start* a third game. MI3 had Guybrush "somehow" escaping the illusion with some minor memory loss and ending up at sea, and I wonder what Ron would have done differently, if he'd retcon the ending to 2 or something.
I believe Ron has said that he's start MI 3 where they left off - in the Carnival. If that doesn't get your hear swirling, I can't wait to see what 3 would have been
Another fantastic vid! I have yet to see a video of yours that doesn't have me wholeheartedly appreciating the nuance of something I've not yet taken the time to explore. Plus, I like how you deliver the comedic bits of your scripts. Keep making these awesome videos about whatever catches your fancy! I enjoy the hell outta them.
I was only 9 when MI3 release, and my dad bought it for us to play. I remember how long we took to even leave the Le Chuck's ship. So, I literally grown up playing it. Out of the 5 games, it is the most beautiful one. And I guess you are right about everything, but... MI3 is so deeply carved on my own child memories and I love it so much that even now, at the age of 32, knowing everything, I can't avoid treasuring it. My interest on piracy culture was born with it and I'll always remember it as the greatest experience of my early gameing life. I also bought it on Steam really recently and it did lived up to my expectations on almost everything.
Yeah I mean if you think about it, the signs were always there pointing at B-Mask being one of those plastic carnival horses, all the REAL fans already figured that out months ago. New character design is trash though, sign my petition to get this hack fired
Play the games as if MI2 is the last one. The Sequels, put then between MI1 and 2. Even the clothes makes sense. In Curse, he starts using a blouse on top of his shirt. In Tales, he uses a blue jacket. That looks more beat in MI2. AND, he grew a beard.
It was a different time dude. Back then the biggest twist known to mankind was empire strikes back and there wasn't so much weird crap around as nowadays. Back then this series was one of a kind and people were way less critical about plot inconcistensies and so on. Also the playing time seemed longer since MI2 came with 12 or 14 disks which you had to switch every screen ;)
Since you mentioned Empire, you know, I played MI2 before I ever watched Empire. Although I was aware before about Vader being Luke's father, I had no idea that the Chucky "brother" scene was based on Vader and Luke's dialogue, so I did a double-take when I watched the scene!
It’s hard to imagine what a sequel that followed Monkey 2 directly would be like. Are we done with the imaginary pirate setting for good and have to engage with Guybrush’s life as a child, or would they have some way to reinvoke that dreamworld again?
The first two monkey island games were some of the first games I played (I played the remasters). I also liked the third one, but found the plot a bit too generic. I never actually finished the 4th and 5th games, due to the PC controls being abysmal and finding them to be a bit of a slog. I do hope that in the future, Ron Gilbert does get back the rights, and make a true monkey island 3, with all the charm, wit and controls of the originals and the retro style of thimblew3ed park, so that we can know the true secret of monkey island at long last.
While i love your perspective on the matter i would have liked that you give a little bit of context behind the point and click genre and how the popularity and rivalry against sierra made the second monkey island different, going out of it's way to be unique and turn the convictions of the genre upside down even with cheeky reference of how sierra games where often very punishing and had points of no return (a.k.a. the phone booth gag) contrast this with the later games that had almost no competition (the 2 last entries were more of a love letter to the genre than anything else really) and very little interest in the public and that is how you get Monkey Island 2: LeChuck's Revenge. Otherwise great video.
Honestly, I wish I knew of this before making the video too. Sadly was too young and too disconnected from other fans/sources of information to know this was the case, so thank you for the input, makes a lot more sense knowing the context.
I started with three, and it'll always have a soft spot in my heart, but going back and playing the rest of the series the disconnect after Ron left is pretty apparent. I really didn't like all the retconning 3 and especially 4 shove in; and I'd love to see his idea for how the series would have continued, through it seems very unlikely that'll ever happen.
I found myself being inexplicably interested in what you had to say despite never playing any MI games...Even though I feel a bit bad that I lack proper context, I feel like this speaks a bit to the quality of ideas that you bring to the video. a lot of time editing, planning and speaking your mind was still worth it even when the cards are against you in my situation, and I think that's pretty cool. Don't be too down on yourself, cuz I'm glad to still stick around whether I have context or not. You still make 30 minutes feel like hardly 60 seconds, so thanks for that.
Huh.. I guess I always just assumed people picked up on all that stuff. I played MI1 and 2 with my mom (along with loads of other adventure games) and we had caught on to a good bit of the 2nd one so I guess the ending made sense to us as the proper and correct ending. The "it was all a dream" thing isn't even the real point, as you so rightly explained. It's about that moment you come online and realize you are constantly being advertised to, your data is being collected and sold, you got a degree and have a salary but were better off financially as a line cook, you're wasting your life working for someone who doesn't appreciate it to pay for things that you didn't need and didn't fill the void even slightly. It's not haha funny, it's if I don't laugh I'm going to cry funny.
playing the origional monkey islands are more fun if you're a reader, i like imagining the voices of characters, guybrush to me was westley from proncess bride, then the remake with voices came out and the picture in my head was destroyed < :(
When MI1 came out I loved it. The simple reason was you couldn't get 'walkthroughs' or look online for solutions. I had to work everything out and the sense of achievement was huge, especially when you thought of something a day or two later. It was the right game at the right time. Now it wouldn't last 2 minutes because people struggle with a problem for a whole minute - then look up the game solution and go through to the end in a few minutes. You don't sound old enough to remember that. These kind of games are not suited to exist in an internet world where the average concentration span is about 10 minutes or the length of a tiktok video.
That was a problem back then too, people didn't have that many games like today, so spending more time on one didn't feel like time lost playing (or doing) something else. It eventually lead to adventure games' backlash too.
Excellent episode, very informative and entertaining. Having played mostly 1 and 2, I'm not sure if I didn't know about the theories around them, or I had forgotten them. Thank you!
I might be superficial, but the humor is all I care about the MI series. So no, I personally have no interest in a sophisticated allegory of theme parks if it means that the whole first two games only happened in Guybrush's head and I cannot even begin to tell how pissed I was when I finished MI2 back then - and up to this day I think it's for a good reason.
I remember playing MI2 through for the first time as a kid and my first reaction was "wait, what" with the sudden unsettling realization that this world wasn't just an innocent computer game after all. Love this series.
Amazing video. As a life long MI fan this really struck a chord with me. Love how you put your finger on MI2's melancholic feel, something ive never been quite able to pin down. MI3 will always to close to my heart as the first i played and i think i do prefer 3's take and progression of the story, but felt 4 and Tales watered down the feel of the first 3, trying to hard, cheap shots, poor jokes. There's always talk of 3a... im not sure how i'd feel about this.
Wow.... I heard rumours about the depth of MI2 Story, but this is insane. Bravo on a very thorough and insightful analysis on something I was never really convinced by. I'm still not fully convinced, but you have given me something to think about...
This is an interesting take. I started with CMI as a kid and I love that game. I played a lot of adventure games but for me the only game that comes close is Larry 7. I think that MI1 and MI2 are great but I got to play them much later in my life. The second game from that series that I played was EMI and I remember how disapointed I was with it... Part of me wonders if MI 2 was my first adventure game would it be my favorite of the series? Would I hate CMI if I had played them in order from the begining? I like Ron Gilberts sense of humor in first 2 games, maybe even more than CMI but I just can't accept the theory that it was all a dream. I like to think they were zany characters in a zany world.
The whole time I played monkey island, naïve 12 year old me thought its black light atmosphere felt very much Disney World and it’s rides. Of course I didn’t draw the immediate parallel to the Pirates of the Caribbean ride. So the ending of MI 2 being a kid in a theme park was no surprise. The anachronistic, tropical theme park world is very much in line with this.
This was a very well put together analysis. Any plans to examine other point-and-click series similarly? Deponia, Space Quest, King's Quest... there's many options out there
