The Value of Building From Lower Receivers When It's Time for Amnesty Registration 

NEVER submit to the amnesty registration, IT'S A TRAP! ATF does NOT have the authority to waive the $200 Tax. It's the Law.

They just love telling us what we can or can’t do!! Lots of us are tired of this over reach!!

1 do not register for amnesty 2 always start from a lower receiver 3 you have a RIGHT to PRIVACY 4 you have a RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS 5 never tell criminals about you 6 never tell criminals about your things 7 you have a DUTY to PROTECT the US Constitution if you are not in law enforcement that is they are exempt as are all traitors

“When it’s time for registration” Nope, Nope, Nope!! I will NEVER register any of my lawfully obtained firearms.

Yea I won't register anything. Try to take it and you will learn why I have it.

screw the ATF, I will not give them amnesty

A few other important things to note regarding purchasing and building from a lower receiver in Washington state: 1. No proof of I-1639 training is required! 2. No waiting period is required, if the 4473 background check comes back immediately! 3. No $18 "Semi-auto" fee! An additional further benefit is that building yourself means that you have a better idea how your firearm works (and breaks).

We cannot comply our way out of tyranny.

It’s amazing how many FFLs don’t understand this. If you have an FFL try and do anything other than this on a stripped lower, stand your ground, and make them contact their ATF representative. I questioned my FFL, he contacted his ATF rep, and they schooled him in a nice way.

Exactly! Even greater is the value of building from 80% lower receivers. The ATF Demonstrated their lie that 80% built firearms CAN BE TRACED when they seized Polymer 80 sales records and made 2 known raids on "kit" buyers. Theoretically they took every individual name from that sales data and run a background check upon each one to come up with 2 out of thousands. THEREFORE, Why would anyone have any doubt that the ATF here and now would not miss any opportunity to prosecute such a pistol or pistol build at all. This is after all oppression.

Get a 80% lower and finish it, then transfer the parts over. Take your S/N receiver to an FFL and sell it.

“The closer the collapse of the empire, the crazier it’s laws are.”

Everyone talks about the AR platform pistols but very few if any cover Pistol Caliber Carbines with braces like CMMG banshee Sig MPX CZ Scorpion etc etc etc

I wouldn’t be surprised if some cases arise that a lower came to the ffl from the manufacturer as a complete rifle. The rifle parted out and pieces sold separately. The lower is then sold stripped as an other to an individual. That individual then builds a pistol unknowingly on what would be considered as a rifle receiver. This would be discovered by either a chance encounter with law enforcement, or an audit when they are checking for missing commas and misspelled words.

Exactly what I needed to hear. Now, I can do what I will, with my receivers.

If you have purchased on on 4473 as a pistol, but also have purchased “others”, it’s likely that if they come to “investigate” your pistol they will also have cross referenced any purchases on record and investigate those also.

Registration is for confiscation. Keep your home made lowers fully assembled, and buried. When they tell you to turn in your commercial guns LATER, keep the uppers to put on the home made lowers

Among the interesting aspects of this ATF "dust up" about AR pistols is that I've built every one of my AR15s and AR10s by assembling from a receiver. Also, I never found the "stabilizing brace" attractive. Instead, I've always installed the Thordsen Customs AR pistol buffer tube system with "cheek riser" attachment. Fortunately, cheek risers on AR pistol buffer tubes appear to be, at least for now, completely off ATF "radar".

If a tree falls in the woods and no one is there to see and hear it fall, did it make a sound? Yes, the tree lying on the ground. Yes, it grew from a seed. No one has a record of it’s growth. All we know is it’s currently on the ground. What is of importance, the tree or the sound?

Valuable information. I'm sure they'll figure out a way to sneak in something arbitrary and change 4473 when this revised "rule" comes out in December.

Thank you for making these videos. Has really helps to try and understand the anti-2A atf.

Always put a pistol upper on your self built lower first. Then, you can put a rifle upper on it and you can swap anytime. I wrote this in their last video as well I really wish Washington Gun Law would respond to this with an explanatory video.

Good stuff Bill. No value for caliber. It could be a 22, 9mm or 450 bushmaster.

Dope info. I build all my rifles from stripped lowers. It gives me options

Ownership of firearms is a "right" under the Second Amendment and therefore by law cannot be taxed as it is a "right", correct me if I'm wrong here 🤔

Good information, I'm glad I'm a mechanical inclined person and can take that information and actually use it to build whatever I want out of the receiver.

Keep in mind also that it is also completely legal to assemble a .308 caliber AR10 pistol, so long as it only has a pistol buffer tube, possibly with an optional cheek riser, and without a controversial "stabilizer brace".

Give no quarter

Im very particular about my parts so always built from blank lowers. After hearing this, Im very glad I did. I guess my only concern is the feds start collecting data on all the uppers sold too.

Registration is confiscation. What does it matter how you configure your government "approved" AR when you are just going to surrender them anyway?

Reading about Carbine Williams "I remember when I was 14 years old, I decided that I wanted a real pistol, so I got up $16.75, somehow, and ordered a .45 caliber double action colt revolver...I ordered it from the Colt Factory...and picked it up at the post office". Then we have the fact that you could buy a 30 carbine mail order and it had minimally a standard 15 round mag possibly a standard 30 round mag. Now maybe the Grand was the assault rifle and the Carbine was just a personal defense tool? Heller is great.... History suggest a handgun can be bought by a legal 14 year old, and a semi auto with a 30 round mag used by the military has been accepted into common private use. OK so maybe Heller doesn't get into the age question ;-)

Just some ⛽⛽⛽ for the algorithm. -CCDL member from CT

My friend owns an FFL in Washington, he sells AR rifles and pistols but he on paper only sells the lower receivers. He supplies all the parts and then has a guy assemble the AR into a complete gun. This way you get a complete rifle but your paperwork only has it down as a lower. I understand now why he does this. With a 24-48hr urn around time you beat the 10 day waiting period and need for the 'assualt weapons" certificate you have to get to buy an AR in WA.

It's way past time to call b.s. on all these regulations .

Thank you Bill for expanding on the lower receivers. However, if I were to purchase an assembled receiver I would ask the FFL how he is going to fill out the form when you purchase one with a pistol brace. Be aware. The ATF sure wouldn't mind if they put pistol somewhere on the form.

I've had Dbag FFL holders tell me they aren't comfortable filling out the paperwork as a receiver. I explained the legalities of it all, and they still were unsure. It ticks me off when I am face to face with a dealer, and my only option is to refuse the receiver and pay return shipping to the distributor, then start all over again, with more shipping fees, or to just eat it and take the receiver knowing it will have to be a rifle.

ALL of my ar's with the exception of one, I built from stripped lowers. It's more cost effective, you don't have the extensive background check like buying complete AR and I can build it the way I want it with the barrel and bcg I want

As an FFL dealer I can tell you that the ATF usually looks at receivers as pistols even though they are listed as receivers on the 4473. For instance, I was instructed by the ATF that I could not sale a receiver to an out of state resident at a gun show or at my shop due to the potential of that receiver being turned into a pistol.

In California it is IMPERATIVE that the FFL inputs SEMI AUTOMATIC HANDGUN on the 4473 DROS form. Don’t let them trick you. I’ve caught FFL’s on two occasions, specifically Turner’s Outdoorsman, trying to sneak it past the buyer during a PPT. Many of their employees are incompetent. I had a buyer drive several hours to purchase two of my AR pistol lowers. He chose Turner’s Outdoorsman against my recommendation to do the PPT. I called the store in advance asking if they’d be willing to transfer an AR pistol lower and was told they would. On the day of the transfer, I met up with the buyer and halfway through the DROS, the employee said that he messed up and couldn’t complete the transfer because it was two handguns and at the time California’s 1 in 30 rule prohibited him from doing so. He suggested that the buyer register one as a handgun and the other as a rifle to which I objected and said absolutely not! I informed him that the 1 in 30 rule only applies to new firearm sales and Private Party Transfers (PPT’s) were exempt from that rule. He informed me that in certain cities, specifically Los Angeles, Sacramento and San Diego the rule also applied to PPT’s. So I had him call another store outside of the city of LA and ask the manager if they’d be willing to do the transfer. He was very apologetic for wasting our time and potentially causing me to lose a sale. He called another location and spoke to their manager. That manager agreed to do it and told him to send us over. We drove another hour to that Turner’s Outdoorsman. As we walked in, we were greeted by a female employee to took the two plastic firearm cases containing the AR Pistol lowers and carried them to the back counter. I explained what had happened at the other store. She replied “I don’t understand what the big deal is, we transfer AR lowers all of the time.” I explained that it was a big deal as I showed her MY DROS form from when I purchased them and pointed to the block that said Semi Automatic Handgun. She insisted that they’re the same Anderson lowers that she’s transferred in the past. Once again, I told her that the difference is in their value, about a thousand dollars each and if registered incorrectly could mean several years in prison, hundreds of thousands in fines and legal fees and loss of one’s 2nd amendment rights. We proceed to fill out the forms, she takes the information, inputs it into the computer and prints out several copies for us to sign. She places the first one down for the buyer to sign and right before he did so, I stopped him and said read it over and make sure everything is correct. I inspect the form and sure enough, she imputed “Semi Automatic Rifle” on the form. Extremely frustrated at this point, I said “Please tell me that you haven’t submitted anything yet.” She rolled her eyes at me, so I asked to speak to the manager that the employee from the previous store spoke to on the phone. I asked him to either explain to his employee the importance of filling out the form correctly, or process the transaction himself personally. He then proceeds to tell me what I already knew going into this whole fiasco which is the reason why I didn’t want to use Turner’s Outdoorsman in the first place and why I will never give them my business ever again. He said “AR pistols are “gray area” firearms and Turner’s policy doesn’t allow them to transfer them, so he wouldn’t be able to complete the transfer as pistols.” At this point, every other FFL in the area was closing. It was a Saturday and most FFL’s are closed on Sunday’s. The buyer was equally frustrated, but expressed that he really wanted to buy the lowers from me. He offered to pay me to hold them until Monday, to which I declined and assured him that they were his already and I wouldn’t sell them to anyone else. I did plenty of research and found an FFL halfway between us that would do the PPT. We met up that Monday and the PPT went smooth as silk. Two things to take away from this. 1) Always keep your DROS forms and receipts for firearms that you’ve purchased AND SOLD in a physical file. Make copies and keep them in a separate location in case one set becomes lost or destroyed. If something happens with a firearm after you transferred it, you need a record that releases your liability of that firearm. Don’t depend of an FFL or government agency to hold onto documents. They lose stuff all of the time. 2) Don’t do business with companies who employ incompetent people, have policies that go against your constitutional rights and are only in business to take your money. Support your local businesses that invest in your community and freedom as an American citizen.

I have no intention of reconfiguring any of my weapons. They were purchased legally and will continue to be used as such. Please come and get them.

This discussion brings to my mind the question that is, when will they try to make us file a form 1 for any frame or reciever we purchase?

All mine purchased with 4473 were simply "receivers" The uppers were all purchased separately.

Thank you as always! Love my stripped lowers. Hope ya had a good Thanksgiving!

And how is that they will know what it was ran through the 4473 as if there is no (legal) registry?…🤔 and if they know, how can I know (or any private citizen), say in private party sale to ensure your on the right side of the law?

Mr. Kirk, Excellent information as always although you are incorrect on a couple of points. A stripped lower and a completed lower minus the buffer tube are as you stated considered “Receiver” and “Other” type of firearm. However, if the receiver is originally sold with a pistol buffer tube on it with or without a pistol brace it goes on the 4473 as a “Pistol” and “Handgun”. If it is originally sold with a carbine or rifle buffer tube attached with a buttstock then it goes on the 4473 as a “Rifle” and “Long Gun”. An assembled lower receiver is a stripped lower with the fire control group, mag release, bolt catch, safety, and take down pins installed. A complete lower assembly has the buffer tube, buffer and spring, and either a straight pistol buffer tube, pistol brace, or buttstock installed. As an FFL dealer if a customer was purchasing a stripped lower receiver and a pistol brace or straight pistol tube I would err on the side of caution and list the receiver on the 4473 as “Pistol” and “Handgun” and explain to the customer why. I would rather lose a sale than lose my license. Thank you for all the information you provide. I am glad you care enough to spread the word.

I know an FFL who, when selling or transferring a completed receiver (buffer tube & fire control parts already installed), will list it as "pistol" if it has a brace, or "rifle" if it has a stock. They don't use "other". I'm not sure what they do with a serialized frame. There may be some inconsistencies among various FFL holders.

I live in WI. Bought a stripped receiver from an FFL. When he did the paperwork he asked me if I was going to use it to build a pistol. Claimed it was part of the paperwork. When I get home from work I am going to dig up the paperwork and see exactly what it says.

You just instructed AFT on how to modify their 4473 for completed lowers

"-V- Cargill" was effectively nullified by the 5th CCA, which limits what the ATF can enforce against Lowers; thus, setting firm precedent for the other CCA's.

I always been an advocate of buying the lower The gubmint knows I have this block of alunimum But its more difficult for them to know what plastic parts I bolted onto it

this is how we are able to still have AR's in Connecticut Build as other 12.5 inch barrel or longer (over 26'' over all length so it doesn't fall under an AOW) and pistol brace and mandatory foregrip. basically an AR pistol with a foregrip, and yes this configuration is legal in any state that allows AR's

The question I have is how are they going to know who has what unless they go to all the FFLs and copy their 4473. In order to do that they are going to waste a lot of man power to do it unless they are creating a de facto gun register.

$590 is what i paid for two of my stripped receivers before the california ban took affect. They used to sell for 80 bucks.

WOW !! When you started I was thinking oh shit, I have only bought lower recivers, glad you mentioned those also.

Imagine if "lawyers" actually took on unconstitutional "laws" instead of giving tips on how to compy with them

This absolutely answers the question I asked months ago ,

No, all the thanks go to you, my friend.

There is no law that says you can't take your legal firearm apart to clean it. You can store the lower and have it ready for collection. Completely stripped and legal. Maybe you can sell the other expensive parts or save them for a rainy day?

Next episode: The value of drilling the third hole😂

I wonder how many criminals follow these outlined practices that the ATF lays down for law abiding citizens? We, as law abiding citizens, have to jump through so many hoops yet the average criminal defies all these hoops. I find it odd that we have to follow the law under the threat of prosecution for something as arcane as pistol to rifle or rifle to pistol conversion where criminals just steal or illegally obtain weapons with very little recourse, especially in Washington state. There are countless reports of people being shot or killed by a person with a long criminal history and the weapon was illegally obtained by the repeat felon. Gee, why isn't our Federal prosecutor getting involved in these cases? Oh, I forgot, criminals own Washington state and prosecutors offices are just extensions of the public defender's office...

So many people are confused about when a firearm is listed as a Rifle or Shotgun. To be a Rifle or Shotgun, it must have a barrel and stock attached to it. This also comes into effect on age restrictions. 18-21 can buy a Rifle or Shotgun by Federal Law. They can not buy a stripped receiver, or one that does not have a barrel & stock, as it is an "Other". BATFE sent a notice to FFL's in the late 2000s because many were listing stripped AR receivers as a Rifle on the 4473 and selling them to people under 21.

This isn’t an issue with scary ghost 👻 guns

I was under the impression that it was illegal for BATFE to keep a "registration" of firearms. It seems to me that if they keep the 4473 forms on file, paper or electronic, or both, they are keeping a "registration" of firearms. What am I missing?

In California a state form is used as well. Dealer Record of Sale (DROS) and I don't believe it doesn't allow just "receiver" to be entered.

It’s been a long time since I’ve taken a con law class. Can somebody explain how this isn’t the passing of ex post facto law? How is a firearm that is legally purchased and then it’s ownership after the fact not illegal? Someone please explain

My guess is that if the ATF were to actually do a search (in the digital database/registry of 4473s that “doesn’t exist”) they would search for both handguns and other so receiver only transfers would still end up being flagged and you would then need to report/justify to the ATF what you actually manufactured.

Great content very educational info: I am glad you went over that because I have asked I guess now to be the wrong people, about buying completed lower receivers, and they could not give me the answers I needed to know whether I could build either or being a pistol or rifle without breaking the law.. So therefore I am glad you covered that area about completed lower receivers being just that a lower receiver that "can" be converted to either or.. Thank you

Where is the word"amnesty",or the term"atf approval"found in the 2A?

I always build my AR's from lowers for the soul reason that I want to be able to configure my guns any way I want!!!

I purchased an AR pistol in like 2015 and it just came with the pistol buffer tube (no brace). But I guess ATF will not know that because the model I bought isn’t even made now and hard to find.

Some FFLs used to ask what you're building so they could put rifle/pistol on the form

Pistol Buffer tubes are about to be popular again..

This makes a lot of sense to avoid their first wave of investigation, but wouldn't it be possible (though far less cleanly targeted) to investigate anything categorized as a receiver as well?

Good information to have. I like starting with the complete lower receiver and then having the ability to make it whatever I want ....

It would seem that if the gun is listed as a pistol, that via the serial number and other information they can determine if the gun was sold with a brace or not. If they can determine it had a brace that does not pass form 4999 worksheet, you may have an SBR. I am not sure if there is any other course but to go amnesty and get it registered. Below is the information that goes on the 4473 and that information may be enough to determine that not only was it a pistol, but that it came with a brace and they may know if that brace is compliant or not. If you buy a stripped receiver, there is no information about a brace or pistol status. 1, Manufacturer and Importer (if any) (If the manufacturer and importer are different, include both.) 2. Model (if designated) 3. Serial Number 4. Type 5. Caliber or Gauge

Where will the 2nd shot heard round the world be? Lexington and Concord was the first.

Super Excellent video very informative. Thanks again WGL!

Registration?, I think not .

what happens if you buy a complete lower from a private owner ….and you don't know if the lower had a 16' or 10' upper on it...

You are correct, but in that scenario, they will ear mark anything listed as a HANDGUN or RECEIVER.......especially from big name AR company manufacturers.

"Shall not be infringed" it's pretty simple..

There is nothing stopping the ATF from going on a fishing expedition of all "others" purchased and doing a knock and announce to check to see what configure out currently have the recovers in. This will never stop until SCOTUS strips them of their power to change law by changing wording in regulations. There needs to be another landmark ruling like they did with the EPA and coal industry

Except the AFT isn't supposed to be mining 4473's for data....

Thank you. I appreciate all that you do!!

Most will comply they will take you 1 by 1 you were warned years ago!!

Please review SOCUT RULING - WEST VA vs EPA and its effects on gun laws

Glad I watched this video! What a great source of information! Thanks for sharing!

It is interesting that silencers are listed on a firearm form, but the ATF is trying to say they aren't. Hmmm?

I bet Black Friday sales on receivers was a hit this year!!!

Hummm, so is there a registry or not? Sounds like there is a registry!

The problem is that if you build a pistol from a striped lower you have to register said pistol with local law enforcement. So FFL didn't record it as a pistol but as soon as it is a complete pistol, in my state, you have 10 days to register it, or you are a felon. So now there's a record of said pistol for the ATF to look up.

Having not been able to afford an ar in one swoop and always having to start with just a lower is paying off now haha

I'm not sure if you'll get to it, here in Washington state you can buy complete upper, lower, bolt, and charging handle and walk out same day without paying your $30 fee.

Hard for the ATF to search for documentation that doesn't exist. Mill your own receivers.

I was just unsubscribed from your channel. Just subscribed again...

The FFL putting handgun, long gun, or other on the 4473 has no legal meaning as far as the owner of the firearm is concerned. The only thing that matters, is how it is initially built.

Wonder why all the new IRS agents??? He said I less than 2.5 min in. TAX STAMP. I bet everyone on this channel watching and creating is 100% above board but what about the guy who’s got a few he bought 2-5 or even 10 Years ago? This is a gun grab

You got me hooked on you'r videos, now how about a 80% AR pistol built to be a pistol with parts that will not accept a pistol brace or adj. stock but will accept the blade style brace as shown in 1:14 and 6:16 of you'r video .

All my ARs are built on “other” lowers. Fortunately I am in a state that has allowed that designation . Some, I think like CA, other is not permitted. Form must be declared. I can change it at will. More than likely, though. As this travesty continues, the most likely conversion will be from pistol to rifle. The other option will be from semiauto to straight pull or bolt action.

Thank you very much for this wonderful information.