The Villages Construction Update #138 Golf Course Update 3 17 24 

This is news to me. When was the closing of Red and Gray Fox golf courses announced?

@arniev7633 the course south of 44 are all still owned by the developer and under their total control for maintenance, as Mitch said, they have no involvement in the course maintenance south of 44 nor the championship courses. We (Mitch & I) discussed some of this before we recorded the interview and since he wasn’t involved with those courses I made the decision to not discuss them (south of 44) as it would not be appropriate. I will gladly interview someone knowledgeable from the developer’s golf maintenance company to discuss with them also the course south of 44 and the championship courses and bring that information to everyone also, once I figure out who that person is. I agree with you, Red & Grey Fox should be in good condition, both are only 8 years old (since start of construction).

@@GoldWingnut I live in Fenney and FREQUENTLY (all the time) see people playing golf at night via the light of the golf carts at Red Fox and Grey Fox - particularly on the greens. So that might account for not being in top shape. I think they look beautiful- perhaps people are spoiled here with the usually pristine courses- i drive by other community’s golf course conditions- we are blessed that we have huge group of people working on this.

@@GoldWingnut I can only assume even though the courses south of 44 are managed by the developer that they share best practices with the district that manages courses North. It's just many people watching your video where it was mentioned that the main cause is the age of the greens. And Grey Fox and Red Fox are the youngest. It might have been good to mention that it was a developer issue that could not be address in the current video.

Saturday They told us at the golf course@@derkster2002

I didn’t discuss the Championship or south of 44 conditions as they are developer controlled and maintained, my discussion was only with Mitch and it was inappropriate to discuss the developer owned courses without their representation.

Go to Brownwood, take the path to Eisenhower RRC, after coming out of the tunnel under 44a the path turns left towards Shooters World and 7-11 and ultimately to the Citizens First Bank office and the TSG office building, park there and walk across the street to the park.

@@GoldWingnut great!!! Thanks!! Can’t wait to attend your wonderful event!!

@5150skb I will address this topic on the 3/24 broadcast as it would take too much typing here.

@someguy95376 While I don’t play the championship courses as much as I’d like, especially in the high (cooler) season, I’ve not had much difficulty in getting a tee time. Yes, Priority members get first choice on tee times, hence the “Priority” membership, and non-Priority members may have to settle for tee times that pay through lunch or in the hotter afternoons, but tee times are usually still available. It’s unrealistic to think that someone who hasn’t committed to the championship course (with a Priority Membership) should expect to get first out or other prime tee times when they do finally decide to play one of the championship courses. Remember, the Championship Courses ARE NOT AMENITIES, they are a private business entity that receives no funding from the amenity fee paid by residents.

No neither Pitch & Putt nor Putt & Play courses were included, only the Executive and the Championship courses were included in the calculations.

From what I've heard, they too have problems with their greens. Interesting as the district staff says the problem is due to buildup of plant matter in the greens due to age, but these courses are only about 7 years old.

I never have a problem getting a tee time though for the executive and I travel off campus to play better conditions for considerably less fee on Championship courses in the surrounding area during our busy season.

Not complaining just an observation…

Red Fox and Grey Fox closed until….

The overseeding with the rye was adding to the problems, that's why they stopped doing it.

@@edgaluski9414 absolutely no argument on these points. I don't really understand why the championship fees are so high.

@jamesdreyer602 the pitch & putt courses were NOT INCLUDED in the calculations, only the executive and championship courses, and these too were separated for clarity of the discussion. The developer includes them when they talk about 747 holes, but I did not include them in my discussion.

Based on some conversations we have had, I feel your thought on Pitch and Putt is similar to mine, so I was thinking that they were omitted. Thanks for verifying @@GoldWingnut

Exactly The villages does the same thing because they count the pitching puts executives

@@bobpanunzio9935once again, the home per hole ratio DOES NOT INCLUDE Executive courses

It's the ration of the number of homes per hole, as the number of homes increase the line goes up, as the number of holes goes up the line goes down. You are misinterperting the graph. There are a total 17407 home south of SR44 (not including Moultrie Creek area), and not all of these are sold yet.

Ah, OK - so as the graphed line goes up, it gets worse for the golfers. That's the opposite of what I would expect (and the title "H/H" does not make that clear). Homes per course would be better since I cannot get a tee time on a hole basis. Courses per 1K homes might be even better so the graph going up would show as good for golfers. Nonetheless, thanks again for digging into the facts and presenting them.

Yes, I understand Pitch and putt courses are not executive courses and I did not include them in my calculations. There are many more executive courses coming, but as with everything there comes a balance.

@@GoldWingnut South of 44 we have Richmond, St John, Hawkins, Bradford, Chitty Chatty, St Catherine, Cason Hammock, Citrus Grove, Newell, Lake Denham and Dabney. They built 2 pitch and putts to accommodate all these houses. What else can I say.......??

And a championship course was built. It's all a balance.

I know, unfortunately once updated it can’t be changed.

@derkster2002 Pitch and putt courses were NOT INCLUDED in the calculations that i did for the number of homes per hole. While I’m not a great golfer (very poor in fact by most all standards) I also do not consider the pitch & putt courses or the miniature golf course as real golf courses.

Relax buddy

Awe gentle arrogance so sweet

Would you perhaps be more qualified?

@BRodgers-22 I do not consider myself an expert on or very knowledgeable of the care of the golf courses (any any other grass for that matter) which is exactly why I went right to the top of the organization that is responsible and most knowledgeable about the topic to get the facts. Unlike many of the keyboard warriors that have become “experts” via the university of google, Mitch is actually an expert, this has been his life’s profession and what he studied in college and what he deals with EVERY DAY. Having read a considerable amount of the online commentary from these many “experts”, much of which has become comical in their ignorance, and then dealing with the true experts on the topic, yes I will become a bit derogatory in my comments towards their ignorance. As far at the number I presented goes, I will stand by my knowledge because it is only simple math and the ability to read a calendar to come up with these numbers. While there are some inherent inaccuracies in the presentation of the numbers, they are factual. The inaccuracies are the result of working on a year by year basis instead of a day by day basis or even a month by month basis. The graph depicts all the holes in a given year and all of the houses in a village in that same year being present on the exact same day. In reality the date of the establishment of a village does not mean 100% occupancy, which takes several months, but that was the date and numbers used; nor do the numbers account for course opening and village establishment at different times of the year. The results of this lack of granularity of the data results the low points of the home/hole ratio being too low and the high points of the ratio not being higher, both of which would have only made my point that much stronger. While it may have been possible to get the higher granularity of the data down to a monthly basis, the current granularity still remains proof positive of the point I was making. I seriously doubt that there are more than a very small handful of “knowledge” people with more knowledge than Mitch living in The Villages or surrounding area that can comment on this topic, but I am most assuredly open to that conversation. These knowledge people may have masters or doctorate degrees in turf studies (or whatever this line of knowledge is called), but would likely not comment on the current conditions without looking at the facts and empirical data, unlike our many internet experts. I think the viewers were best served by being presented with the actual facts here and not the opinions of the many “experts” in social media. Some may disagree with the information because it doesn’t match their opinion, that doesn’t make the facts wrong or incorrect, only their opinion misinformed.

@@GoldWingnut BRodgers-22 (AKA J. Ferguson) sounds like he wanted to grill him with harder and more detailed questions than he perceives you did. Sounds like he considers himself quite the expert, maybe he should go and talk to Mitch himself. Congratulations on not only arranging and scoring the interview, but by going out of your way to present a topic that is of common current discussion and interest. Thank you for working to keep your viewers informed of relevant issues! PS- there are always PIPs who still think they are the boss.

Perhaps pay attention, Mitch does not do anything with the Championship and courses south of SR44, they are developer owned, as he said in the interview. Sorry if the facts don't meet your misguided opinions.