Taking inspiration from JJBA's Funny Valentine's D4C Make it so that you can swap your clone with a key on your keyboard This allows for a more aggressive/trickster-like playstyle where you can use your clone as an approaching/setup tool Y'feel me on this, Aga?
@@ArkhamVEVO wym the same thing? link gives 20% damage boost and 15% dmg reduction and opposite when used on enemies heal gives heals leech is free 10%
I just wish vision shaper was actually based on making illusions, not this clone bs, old illusory realm and mirage from the deep were awesome whyd they get rid of them
@@megagames4989 exactly bruh, like that was one of the coolest and most unique things in the game and now we just got smthn that's really name and generic :/
NGL this rework is really boring in my opinion, it doesn't do ANYTHING with the idea of it, pretty much being reduced to some strong mantras, and m1ing with visionshaper isn't skilled, this is too basic.
imo the issue with actual illusions is that stuff that fucks with the player's visibility is always trash to play against I think itd be pretty tough to find that balance between an illusion mantra being obnoxious like a blind / distort move or being just completely useless in the grand scheme of things so when rag told me that visionshaper's image rn is clone based, I agreed and thought itd be much easier to stick to something like a puppet character vs trying to make illusions not broken or trash tho i do miss being able to spawn in illusion monsters that was pretty cool
Honestly, I think that it would be cool is it was like, an add on to moves. Like if you crouch it would send a shadow, maybe a clone to uppercut, it wouldn’t travel far, but if you hit them it goes in stun. But really I would want the clones to be able to swap your position by tapping the button again after it’s out. I would really remove the counter, maybe rework it into idk where is you hit it you get teleported backwards a certain distance and a shadow swings from where you used to be. Idk I think that would be kinda cool. What you could do with domain is allow you to have basically double clones, like you can have one out and then use the move extending version as well. Or you could use two enhanced versions idk. I think that it should be like a puppeteer, but puppets are frail so the clones should just kinda fall apart if they are parried a certain number of times or hit a certain number of times. That would stop the party trading bs.
Clones are so ass bro. If they haven’t disappeared yet in the 3 milliseconds they’re active, then you’ve used one of 3k multi-hit mantras in game to insta-kill it 💀
Ain't no way bro is complaining about the most nerfed oath in the game. If you're complaining about Vs, you're actually just trash. Most of the time, the clone is either free ap frames or it goes away in 2 seconds.
im ngl 30 second domain feels kinda short for full bar if the only way to build bar is while your clone is out and m1ing Like it should be a massive reward if the prerequisite is that hard to meet.
ngl aga didn't cook with this one basically u would have to pray for your opponent to even have a true stun move to be able to use the evasive clone variant, and for the rest u would have to give away whats ur clone about to do by jumping/crouching/etc while also losing pressure by doing some weird shenanigans and honestly illusory counter is one of the most fun and actually an illusion-like move from this oath, but at the same time it's already kinda requires u to know what u're doing and not just throw it out whenever u can since it's punishing to use against multihit moves just as aga said, so removing it would be much saddies!
there's p much no point in going this version of visionshaper when u can just go dawnwalker that's straight up better this rework is honestly kind of balanced but like whats the point of going this oath if u can just get another one that's just better?
fr illusory counter is my favorite mantra bc It's the only mantra that I can bait my opponent into which makes visionshaper an illusion oath. now the devs want to remove it and add more moves that remove the point of the oath being illusion based and more combat based it's stupid.
@@graybarron7695 yeah i feel you but i can also see why the mantra might be a lil too strong since u're not only reflecting the damage but also spawning a clone (let's ignore the fact that it'll die in 2 secs)
I personally agree and enjoy most of the ideals here, but illusory counter shouldn't be removed as an entirety. It has its own supreme uses, one being able to keep a consistent amount of illusory clones active, and to swap out or exchange hits from what would potentially hurt, like an eclipse kick, to an immediate counter with servants hurting you aswell. I dont feel like counter should be removed outright, as it has its MANY uses, not being just exclusive to combat, like how it can replace what would be thunder stun onto your opponent, giving an advantage of their stun, to you.
@@HeroicPhroghe’s saying it shouldn’t be removed outright because of it’s versatility, so therefore it could still be adjusted or the changes could be not so powerful it needs the counter removal
I think your character should go invisible and gain control of 1 of 2 clones and that one clone being the one to do damage while your real body is invisible with like 2 slashes worth of shielding
Honestly? I'm a bit disappointed as it just seems like we're going even more down the clone rabbit hole. You'd think with how much creativity liberty you get from being able to make an illusion based moveset, there'd be a lot more uniqueness to it, but there really isn't.
Pretty lame tbh, the coolest and most original part of VS (mirage from the deep) goes straight on the chopping block. It really hit that monster oath fantasy
Seems mind numbingly tedious and pointless to an already weak oath Just make clones have the ability to cast mantras that you last used and replace mirage of the deep with a talent in illusory realm that turns your clone into a deep monster so that illusory realm is actually powerful and make it so your clone auto assassinates your opponent when using illusory counter Bam. Visionshaper is now good.
Here's my idea: Illusionary counter: When this procs it spawns 2-3 clones around your enemy that DONT DEAL DAMAGE, but instead copy what you do. Similar to Mirage's ultimate from apex, but the clones will be angled around your enemy instead of the activation point. Illusionary clone (out of realm): It repeats a selected action (after a delay where you can do an action) and does an action depending on what you're doing. The best way to explain this would be, 1. You press clones (0.5s timeframe where you can select an action by doing it eg: m1, mantra) 2.The clone and you tp to your enemy at a random offset and you both perform the action that you selected. (You do 1.5x damage of that action while the clone does 0) 3. The enemy can negate all damage by parrying the real you (their will be an indicator to which is fake by an incorrectly coloured visionshaper eye) Realm (can only be done at 30% hp, 3min cooldown, and lasts for 1 min max): In the realm all clone cooldowns are tied to your dps, and only visionshaper mantras can be used. (U can spam visionshaper mantras if you go in to brawl, but the more mantras you have active, you get a dmg cut) (Realm)Clones: act like current visionshaper clones, but you can switch places with them (you switch with a random clone if you have multiple out, but the more you have, the less dmg you do) (Realm) reality shift: If you cast realm while in realm it changes its layout to a random chime map (can only be done twice per realm)
@@polaris-klepsky I wanted to make the realm less of a place where all black avatars thrive, and a place where your illusionary abilities ate enhanced. How would you improve it?
@@polaris-klepsky I wanted it to be a Hail Mary, so people dont enter fights with an insane advantage, while letting people have a chance to turn the tides of battle. 1 regular clone is strong and more than that is insane.
Other clone ideas: Flourish Clone: immediately after flourishing, using clones will spawn a clone at the enemy and kick them back towards you with a 15 second CD Aerial attack clone: Using clone while using an aerial attack will cause a delayed clone (0.5-1s after) to spawn and also do an aerial attack. 10 second CD Mantra Clone: Using a mantra and clone at the same time will cause your clone to do the mantra at the same time alongside you. Will copy your mantra CD + 10 seconds. Clone fakeout (could be a seperate mantra): spawn a fake clone whilst turning you invisible. If the enemy hits your clone, you tp behind them or they get judgement’d or smth idk
Visionshaper should be more of a passive ability like how aelita uses it, to confuse people. It shouldn't lack offense of course but if we could use it to confuse opponents and npcs alike for openings it would be better than the current "use clones and run" playstyle that isnt fun for both players.
i will miss mirage... why not make it so when the bar is full, you can choose to spawn a mirage that acts as a real mob. or if u wanna nerf it, once u spawn a mirage the realm time gets cut
The clone variants Idea are a thing I really like it actually sounds fun to use it like that and have a variety and I do agree about using your clone to get more pressure into your opponent is better but about the realm I think its still as weak as it is now and no I don't mean damage or physically weak I just mean its a weak idea Ik this is such an unpopular opinion because people think old realm was so trash personally I always loved how the domain worked as it had multi uses and not only the gutted pvp intent that is now and don't get me wrong new realm its way better pvp wise but the monsters always were my thing As a rework idea for the realm I would like this: to bring mirage back but not as it was before (even tho I loved old visionshaper as it was) How my ream would work is similar to what you say but instead of being a bar to get extra duration it would be a bar that u gain while fighting in your realm this bar would let you enter a mode once its full and only once its full and the way to fill the bar is hitting while you are on realm and your clone is alive making it harder to fill out the duration of the realm would be around 1 minute or so Now once you fill the bar u can extend the duration of the realm while your bar is loosing amount but u would get a different variation for your clones now being the monsters we used to have The Crouch clone variant would spawn an owl that would make the owl move that raises u in the air and drops u and the owl would maybe attack for a bit then dissapier a few seconds afters (and also be killable and if you parry the crouch it would not appear) Evassive variant would be pretty much the same but u would make a explosion (That does no damage) of owl feathers and it would give you Iframes and a slight speed boost for 2 seconds or so (Sorta like when u downed someone with vision it would give u s) Critical variant could be either the owl drop or spawning the croc mother to make her stomp attack (this would not spawn neither of them js do that and dissapier) normal variant could spawn a stronger clone version or could be a squibbo My reason to this is that currently the connection with the hivemind is not really showing off as it used to be, visionshaper should still have a strong connection with depths and this would punish players that do not know how to work against PVE Once the bar is drained totally your domain shatters and you would go back to your normal variants
+ extra To indicate other players that the visionshaper has the bar mode it could make the user have like a purple outline and extend the eye's trail The user should have also the option to sacrifice its domain (sorta like you could leave it before) But not it would make anyone inside leave (And maybe give them a short stun)
Soooooo you made it weaker then verse 1 vision shaper and, this is such a boring ahh suggesiton. Like who let this guy make a suggestion, get back to balancing
How is it weaker than verse 1 visionshaper you sound dumb asf 😭 verse 1 visionshaper legit did no damage, this version at least gives u some tech potential and set up for good damage Ik niggas want a magey ass playstyle oath or shit with hella illusions but all that stuff will be used for hella cheese and be annoying to fight be real with me here
could also have a thing where at the owl you talk to you can spec into skill trees for the clones where theyre base is weaker than currently but you could make really tanky clones that do low dmg but last a while or parry more often but arent as tanky. stuff like that just a few ideas obviously would have hella potential.
They nerf visionshaper 2 time's and not bother trying nerfing 0 skill mage builds. Visionshaper is the least cheesy out of the cheesy madness this game has become. Rags just wants to promote 0 skill mage builds (Manta spamming) and 0 skill broken ahh builds
If we're going the clone route I'd think it'd be much cooler if we had 3 mantras alltogether: -vs realm -passive for the gb/frozen/ironsing that clone tanks it -maybe a kind of afterimage where like 5 clones of u spawn standing around the enemy and when u move the clones dissapear -dash attack where you rip through air and teleport next to your opponent, kinda reality breaking
it would have been fun to use the clone with the new multiplying spark swap but its not that good cause spark swap stop working below half health for some reason
They should make clones not die by you getting elemental effects or damage, the colone's cooldown should remain the same as it is now but if you get hit they should extend it by 2.5-5 seconds, increase the ammount of hits the clone can get before death and make it so if you run away from the enemy the clone should simply be 1 shot or despawn.
pls dont remove illusory counter, i've been using this oath for 2ish years and that mantra is the only consistent one of the entire oath. it's also the only mantra that justify's visionshaper to be an illusion oath as the others are just combat based that don't trick the opponent at all
in my opinion if the visionshaper clone could get a variation where you would dissapear completely and summon a clone and if the clone lands 1 hit on the enemy the clone would dissapear and you would appear behind enemy i feel like it could be really good
Visionshaper should rework Charisma Charm to empower its mantras and passives; As a result, Charm will no longer increase damage dealt or reduce damage received. Where Charm would be applied after mantras, crits or unnecessary theatrics, Strain will activate instead, manipulating your opponents by making them more susceptible to your vision. Strain is a slow burn at victim's mental posture bar, that--once broken--will charm the opponent; Buffing Visionshape Abilities and making Strain deplete the sanity of opponents for its duration. As an opponent's sanity depletes through the tiers, Strain will gain a variety of effects. Strain works indefinitely only at close proximity; Applying posture, blockbreaking and landing spits apply definite Strain. Opponents can both stop and heal Strain ONLY by landing attacks and or splits. Parrying will only stop the burn effect while holding block outside of close proximity heals Strain. Visionshaper abilities will peak within one's Illusory Realm; Opponent's who're caught inside are charmed for its entire duration. Strain no longer effects opponents as they are now in reality; Charm regains its intended effects.
I'm unsure about the "get damage in to use realm for longer", because then you would have nearly no idea how long the realm will last instead of just modifying it and choosing how long it lasts. It's supposed to be a move that is used when you're starting or finishing a fight. I think the realm as of now is good as it is, the clones i do agree they should be reworked cuz oh my lord is the range on this so jank. The counter getting removed seems bs, the whole point of visionshaper is to play with your enemy so like...why?
I feel like it shouldn’t all be clones. I know it’s the “clone oath,” but it’d be cool to have a couple more kinds of illusions. I know mirage would go away, but that stuff is really cool. The counter also makes sense because that’s the simplest fun illusion to hide your location. It doesn’t work very great right now, so I think you should make a clone and turn very briefly invis. I think farther back mage style should stay, at least mostly. It should encourage running in more, but making it need close up fighting makes it way more like every other oath. It’s extremely unique right now, and it’s great that way. Not everything should be making people get up close. It also fits with charisma in general, and landing mantras is how you apply charm. It does need a big rework, and the separate meter for the realm is a great idea, but it’s important that the oath keeps its identity as this playful trickster using illusions to keep the opponent guessing.
Isn’t visionshaper supposed to be a caster oath and not a 1s oath? Why make literally everything a 1s oath, where’s the love for mages? The whole thing that makes this game fun is its customisable, with the updates that’s coming deepwoken is cooked. Imagine telling the monster hunter in rouge lineage they can only summon their monsters for 5 seconds💀💀💀
That rework sounds horrid. Taking away counter would make close rang no longer a play. Keep coubter but it doesnt spawn clones maybe give it a different affect instead The clones being close range tho souds good . Realm bar sounds horrible tho
They should make it so clones don’t have health when you are right next to it but say you go too far from it it regains the 3 hit hp mechanic coz it SUCKS rn it would also then reward people for fighting up close than spamming mantras with it out but I like agamatsu’s idea of the clone focusing on uppercutting or using it’s critical but I feel like these should be spark variants so that you don’t know what the enemies clone is going to do until it attacks
just add sparks to illusion servants reverse spark makes it so the clone will not move or attack but the caster's taken damage will be transferred to the clone, causing the caster to take no damage but hitstuns in 3 hits. The clone itself can be damaged by any forms of damage, destroyed in 3 hits magnet makes it so the caster will swap place with the clone once the clone hit someone. The clone will disappear immediately after the teleportation completed particularly, the only downside of the spark variant is that they will not be buffed in the illusion realm
instead of completely removing counter, make it a spark for the new illusory clone if this does get implemented since the counter was still pretty fair in my opinion (had just enough windup to be an actual counter while not lasting long so it took good timing)
if they want people to stop standing back and spam mantras then they need to make clones not dissapear after *one* hit because why would i risk losing this free pressure by going into melee
instead of all of these ideas being shoved into one mantra, they should be separate mantras instead. 4 crits in one weapon is bad enough, please dont add those to mantras
