I (a terminally floor 7-8 player) left bedman after getting to level 103 to try out some other characters for a while (notably Asuka, ABA and Slayer mainly) for a pretty significant amount and something quite interesting came to mind as i came back to the bed. It was always my general theory that ARCYS were terrified of how much potential Bedman theoretically has due to how strong his looping pressure with error in the corner CAN be, and it seemed loke the buffs that the Bed did get were dealt out quite cautiously, because especially at these mid level game You could basically keep player from being able to play for at least 2 loops without much in terms of execution, and if the opponent got antsy and hit a button they essentially have death at their doorstep. That was the theory... but with these other new characters its almost comical how strong their win state is. ASUKAS zoning and 3rd deck winstate is hellacious in spite of his fireballs not being real, ABA's rage mode is zipping her all over everybody and is literally a stray 2p conversion away at anytime, and SLAYER is a 100 tension and 2h away from killing ANYBODY, so now im sitting here with bed like.... no way my guy doesnt deserve more than what hes got
I’ve heard this take quite a bit and I don’t trust it when Nago, HC, Asuka and May exist, all of which can do really nasty looping pressure in the corner but who are also strong mid screen. I think this is just a case of someone has to be low tier and Bed got the short end of the stick, it is what it is. I think it’s ok to ask that Bedman, the most interesting character in the game, to get some buffs to finally get him out of the low tiers. I’d like to be as consistent as the rest of the cast AND have fun.
i love to complain about him being bad all the time but deep down i want him to stay this way (or just a littttle bit stronger) and tone all top tiers down a notch since im not a big fan of "bottom tier this patch, top tier on the next" and vice versa. but that's just me being bad at the game. anyways, i hope there will be more bedmains after the update i think he is genuinely fun and worth picking up regardless of how bad he is.
The latter half of this video really reflects quite a bit of my experience as a low f10 bed lol, it's a bit like im fighting for the scraps of health they let me have at times. Not a fun wall to overcome but i must preserve for the bed is the best
a lot of the complaints you have about current bedman were the same ones we had about season 1 faust. big hurtbox with low health, terrible midscreen confirms, complex gameplan in a two-touch game. they slowly improved him over several patches, improving his confirms and playstyle, so I'm sure they could do the same to bedman.
From your analysis, I can see a few possible buffs they could give Bed: - Make 5HS slam the enemy to the ground on hit and groundbounce on CH to let Bed follow up with an actual combo. - a higher highjump that could help him in his air game and getting around some of his big body weaknesses, maybe giving him some better air neutral tools aside from projectile spam - give him more health to make him a proper big body. If that would prove to make him overpowered, MAYBE you could add a mechanic where utilizing his errors would deal a small amount of self-damage? Or even just triggering them early would. It'd make him more similar to Nago and Asuka in that way but hey, it's not a bad mechanic. - To encourage Bedman to actually wallbreak, I'd add a new mechanic to his reversal super: once used, it would trigger an error state just like all his specials, and once triggered, would create a SECOND explosion! This could give him a really scary threat post wallbreak even if his oki wouldn't be all that strong, though just like all his other errors, he'd lose it if he blocks. - I wouldn't touch his midscreen conversion ability though, since if he had that plus all the other buffs from here, he'd just become a big body with zoning and crazy damage and good movement, which would be a bit too much IMO. Instead of getting far Slash conversions I think Bedman should focus more on finding a chance to get in close with his air options while poking with projectiles and hand explosion.
I think the error self damage is umnecesary, that would punish him for using his main mechanic which activates after using any special and you can't stop once active, asuka can choose not to spend resources for mana or losing health to keep up better presure, and nago only loses any health if you mess up blood management, even making it only on early activation would hurt him since now his P error zoning hurts him more than the opponent, same with his H error corner shenanigans, it would also make him much more vulnerable to wake up dp since he can't S error on wakeup or safejump with H error because he gets punished for that for some reason, that would also make bed install trash unless you negate self damage while it's active
One of the main reasons I even picked up bedman in the first place is because he was a low tier and the feeling of beating someone who has a objectively better character feels incredible, but after about 250 hours and attempting the celestial challenge twice facing off level 4000 Leo players I'm starting to grow a little tried. Not because I lose, I do that all the time but simply put some of the inconsistency of the character and my internet has made this journey quite rough. Edit: just wanna say Yoshi if it wasnt for you i dont think i would have ever gotten past floor 5 when i first started out and you have been my absolute Goat with so much useful info. Been taking so many combo ideas and tech from your high level gameplay clips. And till the day i die i will hit spin on corner into safe jump.
And when you win Celestial, you'll fight the "best" Goldlewis's, HCs, Sols, Leos and Potemkins, you are going to lose and get sent right back down to floor 10.
i still feel pretty meh about how his fireball plays out. if someone is zoning me, i can spam fireball and it ensures neither of us has fun. But it feels very opposed to his normal gameplan. at certain times the only viable option is to play like a degenerate and just spam, because bedman has very little approach tools
One thing that makes me sad is when 6p pushes the opponent too far away for 4b3 to combo off of :( Pretty much agree with everything you said. On top of that, he's really hard to pilot and you need have different game plans and offensive sequences depending on the character you're facing and what the opponent is doing. It just discouraging to play him when you mess up and eat 80% damage. With that said tho, he's for sure the most fun character I've played in this game and that all that really matters and people get hyped as hell when you do good with him :D
Strive is the game that made me decide to really focus on fighting games as a major hobby. My character of choice at that moment... Bedman. I had no idea the life of pain I had chosen for myself. I play Slayer now and it's so much fun. It's this crazy thing where I'm like "oh my god this is so much fun instead of just losing literally constantly, wow!"
While I'm not a top player, or an Xrd veteran; I wanted to share my thoughts about the character too. Fundamentally, his weakness is that it feels better when your opponent is blocking than getting hit. Looping explosion in the corner, chipping the opponent and going for throws oftentimes feels like the optimal strategy. Hitting the opponent feels like you have to desperately cashout before the wall breaks and you return to neutral. Being so fragile healthwise and defensively also means resources feel more precious. Break the wall with super? Can't save yourself from a bad spin, or a wiffed 236h. Use wild assault? Hope you enjoy dying in one combo because you don't have burst. The one change I feel he desperately needs is more options on hit. Even close slash has barely any reward midscreen without counterhit. Give me the option of what kind of reward I want on hit and Bedman instantly feels better to play. 236h for a knockdown, 236s for corner carry etc. Make install easier to route into, it usually only gets used raw in neutral or right before an error comes out. If they wanna be crazy, make install change his non error special moves on hit as well, 236p launches on hit, 23s hard knockdowns, 236[h] is an overhead. That kind of thing. I love Bedman, he is easily the most fun and interesting Strive character, maybe even my favorite fighting game character period. As much as I would love crazy top tier bedman, that wouldn't be healthy for the game. Bedman with too many buffs is just goldlewis with zoning and looping 50/50s. So I'm genuinely interested in what kind of buffs they can give this character to make him feel more in-line with the rest of the cast.
I like when you work your ass off to get your opponent into the corner and think "party time" only to remember that the damage you're gonna get before the wallbreaks took twice the work and is still comparable to a lot of the cast.
really good video ;o; i feel like i couldnt clearly articulate bedmans issues further than "i wish 236s was more consistent" i really hope beddy gets more love in season 4
in the wake of the season 4 initial patch, it looks like bedman got a lot to help address the issues described with his midscreen pressure and reward on hit! His forward jump just straight-up goes farther, so it should be easier to chase the opponent in situations like post-wallbreak, and both far S and jumping S had their pushback decreased to allow them to more consistently be followed up on at any distance - jumping S's new vacuum effect in particular looks *disgusting* for enabling combos after air-to-air situations. And to boot, they made jumping D launch the opponent for combos so it has more value as an option in aerial mix-ups! Shame about what happened to White Wild Assault, but really, it was probably too strong anyway. Considering its old broken state was basically the one saving grace to the Bed's defense, though, here's hoping the full patch in October does something about his effective health or gives him something else to work with defensively...
Hey so if the buffs they're promising with this minor patch end up being... Subpar... I would love to see a video from you on how you would like Bedman? to be buffed
Great video! Thanks for the character crisis! Serious now, when I saw the clip from xrd I was dumbfounded by how much mobility Bedman had there, I don't really see why arcsys couldn't give him better mobility in Strive. It now hurts that I start fantasizing about probable upcoming buffs or reworks only to realize they probably won't affect mobility.
Bedman can superjump? Oh my god I've been playing him since he released and after 300 levels I only find this out now? Guess it is very similar to his normal jump
Doubt Johnny will get a dashblock. He has other strengths I’d rather they focus on improving, and dash blocking is the safest and easiest way to approach, which kind of goes against his entire character. Could just be me, but I’d rather they buff his offense than his defence. It seems fitting.
Presentation and script for this is fire. Very concise explanations while being as brief as it needs to be and very entertaining. I don't even play Bedman and I never will though 👍
I play bedman despite him being trash because once you get that perfect situation of the opponent having no resources in the corner he is possibly the most fun character in the entire game
100% agreed. As a primary Pot main but still playing multiple characters you mentioned in this video except Zato and Chaos, he has all the "feels bad" of big bodies without the unga bunga benefit of one. He feels like he should be Strive's version of MVC sentinel, but just does not feel good at all
Great video and very well put together and shows what’s wrong with bedman in a really easy to understand way for people who don’t play him, I only have one question… What do you think about Elphelt?
I haven't played Elphelt since her launch, but my take is that her tools aren't generally interesting and didn't handle the transition from Xrd to Strive well. Her fireball just doesn't matter for the most part. Her offense was designed in a way to hinge on an RPS involving the opponent's 6P and fuzzy mashing/backdashing because it's unreactable otherwise. I don't think she's good, but I also just wish she was more interesting. They kind of just separated parts of her Xrd kit and haphazardly moved it to Strive which left her with a lot of tools that doesn't feel worth using (fireball, command throw super).
Amazing video! Though I am not a good enough player to really complain about character balance and such, the stated weaknesses are quite noticeable, for the most part, even to me. I can't even count the times when I caught the enemy by a good counterhit in the corner and then had a wallbreak because of the !S error. Still, love Bedman? to bits, there truly is not a character that is like this in this game, even if I have to work around the shortcomings.
Always thought that a cool change for bedman would be to give him negative guts. Take less damage when at higher health, but take more damage when at lower health. Feels in theme because it’s a broken bed that is degrading during the fight. Also sorta works lore wise because guts is the will for someone to live and well… that kinda explains itself. Idk what defense multiplier is needed to actually make this a buff, just a thought I’ve had in the back of my mind when I first learned about guts.
I was excited for the BED when I saw his neat tool kit with the old replay function (i love a 2 step setplay character) but neutral with bed feels stupid and his defensive options feel stupid and his combos feel stupid and he is stupid in strive and that makes me sad
Strive was my first game in the series cause i lost a bet with a friend, i didn't know who to pick at first, but then i saw bedman... he wasn't in strive yet, but my friend always kept telling me, "Why do you want bedman in strive? He sucks as a whole" then he dropped, and i picked bedman? Up and got better than my friend at the game. Then i discovered you, and man.. i just love bedman so much as a whole.
I really appreciate these videos you make if not just because Bedman is the only other gear character I’ve ever had an interest in that wasn’t Baiken. That and your points are well thought out and explained
what I’ve noticed maining bed for nearly my entire playtime as the most comfortable option for me to play with is that the supers are quite lacklustre and I rarely ever consider them, Bed Install ends way too early to get value out of out unless it’s used in the most optimal circumstances while The Circle is feels so hard to find a situation where it would work better than a Red RC or where it would hit as a reversal/punish due to its range
I dropped my 2,000 game Bedman for Slayer, surpassed my Bedman rating on RU the night he came out, and haven't dropped back below my Bed since Man this game is real fun of all sudden 😎
I love bedman to death he is like my favorite character in fiction period but i still am very disappointed at how arcsys is handling the character, ever since xrd it almost feels like arcsys just kinda wants bedman to never be a good character again, probably because they believe bedman being good wouldnt be healthy for the game, which on paper sounds right but when you factor in the way they designed bedman in strive it makes you wonder if theres anything at all that could make him top tier at this point, because he is just so flawed from a basic design standpoint that even if you gave him a lot of broken tools but kept his effective weaknesses he would still be a low tier Ever since his release to even the s3 patches he just kinda felt...lacking, we know that his release was delayed and all, but it makes me believe that they were so focused on hackerman that they didnt really tested bedman to its fullest before releasing him or else we wouldnt be in this situation Everytime a new dlc comes out, i check all of their options and capabilities to see what cool stuff they can do, and i just cant help but think "okay cool but why doesnt have like something like this?" Even simple stuff like ABA 236K CH conversions, where she gets multiple close slash dash cancels in a row, or slayer CH mappa linking into 5K into another mappa, this is all stuff they gave to every dlc basically except for bedman, which just kinda makes the character feel incomplete in a way, like they forgot to code him properly And while i know this is reaching quite a bit, and i still love bedman, i totally agree to everything you said in the video, and in fact i think this character is holding me back, theres even more stuff to mention, like his insane meter penalty on install, horrible frame data that makes stagger pressure a pure gamble rather than an option, the insane blowback distance on every single move, its a bit of a mess, i hope the micropatch and s4 fix him, because i wanna keep playing him without feeling like i lose out
I love this character, easily my top 2 pick after Jack O. As of Season 3, with the addition of Wild Assault, nn my opinion the Bed's biggest weakness by far is that you cannot consistently convert from winning interactions into rewarding situations. TL;DR: Pretty great char for Floor 10, A tier :) * How does this happen (Assuming you're fighting against decent players): - Your defense sucks, yes, you have White Wild Assault, but you also don't have a meterless reversal, some stubby normals and weirdly low defense modifier for a furniture. Blocking with this character can be very stressful. - Sometimes, your well timed 6P AA will push the opponent so far away that you cannot do anything but run and try to make 236Hs hit meaty... this is seriously not okay. - You score a counter, but you cannot convert into a favourable OKI situation. - If you manage to hit your air-to-air jP or CH j.S, half of the time, you have no chance to set a respectable OKI - Because most characters can outpoke you, meaning you will lose your follow-ups most of the time (losing te Error follow-up setup) and if they manage to hit, they don't net into anything significant for you, meaning you'll have to play neutral again. - Your blockstrings aren't respectable. Your "best" blockstrings can just be FDd or interrupted: 1. cS -> 236Hs [you can get hit by mashing (@ 6:12) and you're far away if FDd] 2. cS -> 2S/fS -> 2Hs [jumpable gap] 3. cS -> 6Hs [reactable OH] 4. 6K -> 2D -> Beyblade [1f ~ 2f gap, you can get thrown/DP/supered]) - You are losing when you trade (even on CH 5Hs @ midscreen, "bottom tier" Zato can convert from this). - You "can" lose the advantage of strike/throw because the follow-up will trigger mid throw animation, you might get DP'd once you start your OKI. - Bomb OKI is very strong, yes, but IBFD, FD and DS are stronger. You are guaranteed to lose the Error follow-up (@ 6:14) or die trying to use it because other characters outpoke you or punish your Error calls/delays. - If you didn't use install and loaded an Error follow-up, you have to forget everything you did before after you get a wallbreak without HKD and play neutral again, at this point go back to the 1st bullet point. - OKI after super is... decent at best, laughable for the most part. ---- If we got the "Kid Buu" special from Xrd back with the added benefit of getting a HKD on hit, that might give the char more chances to win rounds.
I have said this before in another video and I'll repeatedly say it again as a Xed Bedman player, Bedman's main strength was his flexible mobility almost all of it which can now be achieved with RC. Not to mention his air dash is just too slow at start up. None of his pressure is DP is safe the literal reason why no top level player even touches Elphelt even though she was better RPS than slayer. I can understand they not wanting to bring back Dejavu but why ruin his normals? 5K isnt low invul for being a 8 frames, why? 5H isnt active,double hitting or doesnt hit back why does it send the opponent so far? 2H is at not point plus or hell it aint even safe, what is the point for getting close to the opponent, so they can dp or c.S me, inexchange for 1H/2H/3H one of the safe frametraps he had. Both of Task A and Task A' worked as a boomerang aka it was never a projectile, it was a pressure starter. 6H isnt a rekka anymore how do I stay in my opponent's face then? His whole kit is shooting himself in the leg and Idk how his error dont persist as he gets hit unless he is in Install(Which was also added later lol) Arcsys didnt outright didnt want this character to be good, as the sales dropped progressively as the season pass went on, they released Slayer because they wanted the sales. They ofc realized that Cool character only wont get them the sales with Jhonny(Jhonny players worked around and made him a zoner), Elphelt got dropped fast like in Week 1, ABA retained most of her kit to prevent that exact reason yet she is still a niche character who locks fastest 5f characters, Slayer is released that good so that people would drop their main for it. I always buyed the pass day 1 for this game because GG characters just always happen to be something like Jacko,HC,Asuka, but this season feels very monetarily planned. I will wait to see the 1st character of seasom pass 4 or even the 2nd character before buying this time.
It's kind of hard to say, because a lot of these changes would need considerable testing. Some ideas that others and I have considered that aren't complicated changes: - 2H accelerates faster and is 1F faster. This makes throwing it a bit more consistent for the opponent, but reduces other weird counterplay and increases consistency off of Bedman's routes. - !S error no longer obliterates wall life. Vertical launch on each explosion higher and horizontal launch is less. - Certain air normals need higher launch, primarily jS. - Bedman's air hurtbox is slightly shorter - Bedman's forward air dash is a bit farther - Bedman's super jump is a bit higher - Bedman has slightly better life (maybe more guts) Not all of these changes have to be implemented, but those are some low hanging fruits and won't exactly make him busted as they fall mostly within QoL territory.
I dont play bedman but hes probably the only character in this game i can outright choose as worst character in the game because hes the only character i always feel like i can win against even with my 2 main choices being elphelt and giovanna Losing to bedman feels like i lost at genuine fault of my own for playing wrong because if im in the corner against bedman, thats my fault I should never be in the corner against bedman cause thats like his one win condition
