The West Wing: Toby, Russia & The Free Press 

Toby is a asshole

@@scallen3841 an* "Toby is an asshole." With a period. -Toby Z. lol

@@Isaic02, absolutely. Punctuation is important. There’s a difference between “Let’s eat, Grandma.” & “Let’s eat Grandma.”

@@Isaic02 Thank you for using proper grammar. It’s rare these days.

No, Toby is principled.

​@Bri Ba Interesting point, actually. On the one hand, it's not a violation of the first amendment, because it's a private corporation suppressing the news, not the government. On the other hand, by owning exclusive rights to a story, while refusing to publish it, and yet using the legal system to enforce that right, the same result is achieved, perfectly legally.

@@derekweiland1857 LOL. God you people are stupid.

@@derekweiland1857 This is sarcasm right? Sometimes it is easy to miss on the internet

@@alexmacgillivray3095 if you had actually been to qmap.pub you would see that its true.

@@derekweiland1857 Well it must be true if it appears where again? I mean all the worlds law enforcement offices must go there to find out the real criminal acts I guess. Or is it just people who lack any kind of evidence or proof? You are better off with sarcasm.

This has never been true, the press is there to make money only the 0.0001% of news is reported without bs, the rest is basically click bait before the Internet.

Blank disappointed stare, pause, "do people roll their eyes when my name is mentioned?"

There *isn't* one. The point is: being ridiculed, even by the worst of people, doesn't make you right. And those who find themselves targets of such ridicule are accustomed to it and even roll their eyes at it. We should not judge people based on who loves or hates them; we should judge their ideas and arguments on their merits.

The acting is so good, I can't help but believe that it's not acting. Richard Schiff must be a real bastard, lol.

@@loganirwin1123 ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-rLj1uDZL1Ok.html

He was always sour though (in general). It was too much imo.

Please do write back when you get that opportunity. I think I speak for everyone here when I saw that we'd love to hear about it.

Not so kind to the real ones either

What do you mean? Trump doesn't love CNN..

@@SuperMathewson The "real" journalists don't work for propaganda rags like CNN or MSNBC. Those "journalists" are nothing more than left wing activists. Real journalists should have no affiliation or at least bury it so deep that no one really knows which way they lean. Mind you, I'm not talking about "opinion journalists", aka political talk show hosts like Sean Hannity or Don Lemon. They have every right to their opinion, though I do tend to think that calling them "journalists" is a bit much. I don't think that there's anything wrong with calling ones' self a political talk show host is such a bad thing, as it is a pretty honest job description. But when you have people like some of those working in the White House press room who are clearly activists for one party, it's pretty offensive to think of them as actual journalists.

@@crucisnh The problem with Hannity is the fact that he fully embraces lies and conspiracy theories and presents it as actual journalism. And while I have issues with most media outlets like CNN or MSNBC, there's no denying the fact that they are a lot more fair in their reporting than Fox, and yet I see absolutely no Republicans criticizing them for their obvious and blatant right wing bias.

You mean Russians, right?

True...CNN, MSNBC, CBS, NBC, ABC, NPR, Etc., have been DAH TOVARISH for years now...👎

@@rafibenavi4772 Absolutely comrade. Nothing in the free world has ever compared to the partisan nature of totalitarian government controlled press with the single exception of American rightwing media. Limbaugh, Fox, OAN, Praeger U, CoupAnon, etc have never been anything more than the propaganda arm of the Republican party -- and as the good propagandists they are, they never fail to attack the credibility of all legitimate news sources.

@@reidflemingworldstoughestm1394 Your issue with one sided politics is blinding you to what is ACTUALLY going on...Sad...

@@rafibenavi4772 You issues with conflating anything happening in the US with what the Republicans are doing isn't blindness as much as it is active attack on reality that can only come from a desire to destroy America... Sad...

@@reidflemingworldstoughestm1394 No genius...That's a really bad ASSumption on your part...My trust is in YHVH Elohim Adonai Tz'vaot...Yours is in men lined up on a particular political discourse instead of GOD ALMIGHTY...And that's why, it's sad...

He ate a salad, once.

@@loganirwin1123 Correction: a bowl of weeds

He grew up w/a father who was a murderer. He aged.

@@richarda29 Working at the White House probably does him no favors either. Stressful job, I hear. Makes one's hair turn white even.

In Toby’s case his hair fell out. That seriously is a man who needs a life…

Right - lets take a scripted scene with actors...multiple takes....and then relate it to real life with regards to a free nation with over 350 million people in it......fantasy was about the only thing refreshing in this post...

@@gyleake, all true. But I should remind you both that C-SPAN actually showed what was going on in government for years before failing because nobody would watch anything so boring. To paraphase Nicholson, people can't handle the truth. The truth is what Lyman said it was to Hoynes during their jog: we have two corporate parties, one pro-life & one pro-choice. The last 18 months should be all the evidence you need that neither the Democrats nor the Republicans give the first damn about anybody not lining their wallets.

@@gyleakewhat you described is the exact sentiment of the show. Idealistic, but not realistic. 😅

It’s on Netflix in the US-for now at least.

Come to my house or any of the millions of other people who bought the box sets DVDs I have the whole series in my library.

I'll pay the postage if you could have them sent over!?

You can buy the box set on Amazon for 50 60 bucks.

Use a free vpn and watch it on us Netflix

Well that fool is former KGB. A spook!

The show is kind of referencing that. The apartment bombings was a reference to an actual event in the first year that Putin became Prime Minister under Yeltsin.

Apartment bombings were real. Many still believe Putin ordered them so he could start a new Chechen war and become President. And you know what - that newspaper exists. But it is not some "yellow" media - it is the last true independent media that had a lot of their journalists killed in the line of duty.

The actual Novaya Gazeta has had its journalists assassinated for years; they won a Nobel Peace Prize for continuing to persist in their journalism in the same year you posted this.

It’s 18th in season 3 “regular” season episodes. It would be episode 19 if you include Isaac and Ishmael. It’s episode 20 if you’re counting the Documentary Special as an in-season episode.

If she is on the plane, that is diplomatically considered US soil, and the credentials stand, regardless of where the plane is geographically. Toby 100% did the right thing, both in giving her the credentials, because if you are an honest believer in the 1st Amendment, you have a moral obligation to provide them, and also in confronting her so that she understood the circumstances under which she was being granted them, not as a favour, but as a matter of principle, despite his moral objection to her standard of journalism. He's holding himself to his own moral standards, one of the reasons we love Toby.

It's on the description......

It's not about shutting anyone down. It's about ignoring the hell out of people who do those deplorable activities.

Toby is a asshole

The LIST of things that make Toby angry doesn't bear thinking about. He's a depressive whose father was a murderer. But for what it's worth, I'm angry about journalism, too. These guys hype the ratings for advertising dollars. They'll show every plane crash but not car crashes, even though plane crash deaths are a fraction of car crash deaths.

Mark P No, but the government denying access by failing to provide credentials would kill its spirit

In fairness, Toby says that more or less word-for-word.

Enter the hitman,Trump.

@@samkaplan5467 - So, how far would you extend this. Should everyone who runs a blog be able to get these press credentials?

Mark P it should not be denied for political reasons. Full stop.

No, she "worked" for one of the best Russian independent newspapers. Still is, people who work there are not afraid of Putin or his goons. I am not sure the time of this episode, but most likely when Russia was seen as a friend. You would close your eyes on anything our corrupt politicians would do, And their critics - a big problem for our oil and gas

🤡

No FOX News or Newsmax

It was a product of it's time. People don't realize but the Russia of today is not the Russia of 20 years ago, they are very different places.

This episode came in may 2002. Our relations with Russia were much different then what they are now.

I think Toby had considered all of this; he understood that Russia wanted to make an example out of these journalists, and despite her body of work, Toby wanted to turn the tables and use her as an example of American press freedom in kind - by making her wear a funny hat and putting her in the front row. He accepted the diplomatic risk of offending Chigorin because he thought it possible for Chigorin to understand just what the Americans were doing.

It's about Russia then, not the dystopia it is now

It came down with a fictional, far more democratic government than exists now. And, of course, it came down in favour of a free press - warts and all.

I can't believe people could miss the point of this exchange that badly. It's precisely because politicians (whether Russian or otherwise) MUST be ruthlessly scrutinized, that the press agents doing the scrutinizing must do their work honestly and legitimately. If they're nothing but muck-raking ambulance-chasing sensationalist slander-merchants, they won't be taken seriously by anyone. Then no one will take any notice of their analysis or criticism of the government when they ever do raise a legitimate alarm about real problems.

The point is that her reputation had nothing to do with the way the Russian Government treated detractors, and maintaining a free press is the most important thing. Toby literally said this.

P.W how the fuck did you miss the point so completely?! Your failure is stunning in its magnitude...

@@peterformaini7723 The Chigorin government had to have been based off of the early days of the Putin administration; Toby mentioned rumors about the Russian President's involvement in bombings of apartment buildings. This is Russia's "Bush Did 9/11" in the real world, as many believe Putin did the very same thing in the late 90s.

@Tessa Rossa facts really are not the MAGA strong suit. Plus when the president commits crimes...well , they honestly don't care.

@Tessa Rossa 8 years bitch

@@John-Adams - how's that taste now? A little on the expired side?

What is her name? What does she write?

@@kevincarroll3914 Why are you assuming it's a "She"?

I don't think the intention is to acquit the Russian Government of suppressing free speech, I think the point being made was more about the importance of free speech, which we can see in Toby's disgust that in a nation with so little free speech, this reporter chooses to use it to spread lies. I like the subversion of expectation. We're inclined to unquestioningly side with the reporter who we as an audience are told is being suppressed because of her opposition to the Russian Government. When Toby later finds out the real reason, he's even more insulted, giving the story two layers. First, that the government suppresses free speech, Toby doesn't deny that - and second that despite how little free speech there is in Russia, rather than championing it this reporter and her paper choose to lie and libel. He wants to side with her, that's obvious in their first encounter. He, like the audience, want to believe she represents an voice of truth in the face of an authoritarian government, and as story and writing goes it's brilliant, the audience instinctively root for the democracy and freedom - so when Toby finds out she's a liar he is deeply offended. For a b-plot that only covers a few scenes, there's layered writing at work - the sort of writing that made The West Wing brilliant.

Putin is a garbage autocrat.

And he DEFINITELY did those apartment bombings.

@@LabradorIndependent Yeah, Sorkin should have chosen another newspaper. The one she works for is an actual independent newspaper, one of the last ones, who extensively cover the corruption, wars, oppression and social inequality in Russia. They don't do "yellow" journalism - that is not what this newspaper is famous for.

Perhaps in your right wing fantasy world.

@@gheller2261 Facts, truth, and reality are concepts in which they aren't very well versed...

You're violently stupid

“It should stand for everybody in USA.” that’s what Toby’s saying especially as he asserts that she is “already credentialed to cover our [aka the American] President.” But they are flying to a foreign country and thus the right to extend that same freedom is not absolute as it would be within the US. As much as Toby would like to “enforce US law around the world” (Though I don’t think he’d enjoy retirement nor scuba diving that much if you ask me)

An undocumented man was killed when cops went to the wrong home. The city claims he had no constitutional rights. www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/09/27/ismael-lopez-southaven-mississippi-police-shooting-constitution/

@@VC-Toronto The city can claim all it wants, but the supreme court has been absolutely clear on this. If you are in the US you have US Constitutional rights. Otherwise people in the country illegal or otherwise, would be fair game just like they are in China.

I think he was saying in a broader sense that it doesn't apply outside of the USA