@@akshaynatu1084 Its true unfortunately Colvin being ghood was the only reason why they get away with it. If Colvin did not have heart he had, he would put this whole thing public and trial and fuck everybody up.
If anything, I think Stringer might be the more underrated, at least amongst fans of the show. Lot of comments under The Wire videos claiming Stringer was a fool for trying to change the game; Colvin was trying to do the same thing from another angle, and also failed.
They say on the show repeatedly "your only as good as your CI/informant" so what does it say about Colvin's policing skills that Stringer's his informant
It says that even among those who are the top of the game, he has their respect. It's never personal with him. It's like that episode of Looney Toons with Sam the Sheep Dog and Ralph the Wolf. Off the clock, they're just normal as can be, but on the clock, they have a job to do. All the shit Ralph tries to do to Sam, and all the shit Sam does to Ralph to prevent Ralph from stealing sheep. Then at the end of the day, they're back to normal as can be. Showing that it was never personal, just business.
@@FreePlayMode I've heard that in reference to this show, quite a few times, that's an amazing way to look at this show.. There's so many nuances that go by casual viewers eyes
the fact that Stringer said Hamsterdam was the reason why he contacted Colvin, the way Colvin's face lit up, it validated his whole philosophy of policing, that there is merit to his cooperative methods, that even a guy like Stringer can eventually open up and try to help an honest policeman
^ Stringer could have went to any person in law enforcement to snitch on Avon, but he went to Colvin because he trusted him enough to carry out the deed. And why would Bunny turn Stringer's request down? He's police at the end of the day
Mr Bell went to Mr Colvin because who else in power would be so desperate to make something happen for the sake of his name? The part about "Hamsterdam" is an appeal to his ego. It's a manipulation. This is Brer Rabbit going to Brer Fox, "oh PUH-LEEZE, don't throw Brer Avon in the slammer and leave me out here in the Brier patch all by myself!"
@Derrell S Not necessarily, The Wire did produce a number of mini episodes showcasing the origins of several characters. Prop Joe, and Omar are two to check out, RU-vid has them somewhere.
@Derrell S Yeah definitely get what you mean, as each season of The Wire features a different issue within the city of Baltimore. In this way the city is the main character, and each season is an in-depth look into the consciousness or mindset of that city. There is a lot of sociology behind the show, and as you said a deeper understanding of the characters individual mindsets is second to that of the city's. Breaking Bad is a great example of individual character development, but I would also recommend The Sopranos. Despite my own personal disgust with the behavior of Tony Soprano, he is just so fascinating to watch as you want to just pick apart his brain to see why he does the things he does. Also, the show is literally built around exploring the deeper meaning behind each of the characters actions and worldviews (Tony has therapy sessions after all). Thus, even 20 plus years after having been introduced, these characters can seem richer than similar characters in The Wire; this is despite Sopranos feeling less realistic compared to The Wire.
@Derrell S I struggled with The Sopranos as well, as I had just finished The Wire (this was a few years ago) and the tone and structure of that show hit me differently. It's for sure an excellent show once you get into the meat of it, and I enjoyed my time with it. Another TV show I would recommend for great character development would be Bojack Horseman. This is a show that, despite the zany and outlandish misadventures the characters get up to(it is a cartoon), and the hilarious comedic situations they find themselves in, it is ultimately a show about the mind. Bojack Horseman explores the deeper causes/meaning behind childhood trauma, societal expectations, and how we deal with living on with our own issues. I know it sounds heavy, but Bojack manages to balance these themes with an air of comedy and self-awareness that few others accomplish. The show just had it's series finale, and I can definitely say that it will go down as my personal top four perfect TV shows. I absolutely loved it.
"It's just business". Same thing Avon says to him the last time they see each other on top of the building at Avon's place. Damn the writing on this show was amazing.
Yet Avon was also the one trying his best to destroy String's Co-op scheme by relentlessly pursuing war with Marlo and 'Mo corners' bs over safer business with less police scrutiny. The sad truth was that only after String was dead did Avon realise how right he was all along. If he'd listened to String to begin with he would've dodged jail and probably retired with tons of property and legit business prospects. In fact if there was more Stringers and Colvins on both sides you'd ultimately have safer streets and community revival in Baltimore.
@@dylanmorgan2752nah stringer messed it all up by going behind avons back. Had he not betrayed Muzone he wouldn’t have had placed a target behind his back. He shouldn’t have had told Avon he had D killed. Had he allowed Avon to eliminate Marlo they would’ve had their corners back and war would be over, with Marlo gone they’d still get their coop package since Joe wouldn’t be able to sit down with him. Ultimately it’s on Stringer for not respecting the game, he snaked out Avon, had d killed, snitched, setup Omar and mouzone. Had he not gone off the reservation they’d all be good.
@@user-nh6oq8ut2t They both represented both sides to the game. The business and the street. Ultimately as Prop Joe said their main problem was a conflict of leadership. Stringer definitely made mistakes leading to his demise, and one of those was going behind Avon’s back. But equally Avon made the mistake of going straight on the warpath before the ink had dried on his release papers and immediately jeopardising everything Stringer built. This was despite the fact that Stringer literally handed him waterfront property in his name and security in knowing he’d never have to touch the streets again. But Avon couldn’t leave that life behind and still needed to act the soldier. It’s a tit for tat argument. You can say Stringer should’ve taken care of Marlo before he became a problem or that Avon would’ve done differently. But equally if Avon had just left Stringer in the driver seat their problems could’ve been resolved with minimal violence and police scrutiny. Say what you want about Stringer he might’ve been overly idealistic but he was miles ahead and truly the brains of the Barksdale crew. Avon basically admits as much after he dies and he realises how right String was all along.
@@dylanmorgan2752 The thing is Avon knew Marlo couldn't be reasoned with because he saw him for what he was. Guys like Marlo aren't interested in honour, or respect, hell even money, they're only interested in power, and will do anything to get it. Once they get that power, they maintain it by being as ruthless as possible, ruling through fear and reputation (you respected him, but he didn't respect you). Marlo is two-faced and devious by nature, alliances and relationships are purely out of convenience, once he no longer has a use for them he gets rid of them by killing them. Avon and Slim both knew Marlo was dangerous and couldn't be trusted, which was why Avon was adamant about having his corners and getting rid of Marlo. The corner is at the end of the day where the drugs are sold and the bulk of the money from the dealers is made. You abandon the corners, you'll get someone else who will claim them, then you have territory disputes and eventually gang war. Stringer was out of touch with the realities on the street, he was making his move to become legitimate too soon without realizing it.
I love the way Colvin says, "speak your mind Russel", as if to let us know in the audience that those two characters probably had a lot of history and run-ins back in the day. Probably even went to school together like Bunk and Omar did. In the end, after all the paranoia about snitches, Stringer turned out to be the biggest one.
Nah Colvin was much older than Avon and String so I doubt they attended school togehter. They're about 31/32 and Colvin was nearing retirement( maybe late 50's or close to 60) However I agree that the two definitely had some run ins from back then,💯💯💪🏿
@@brandonethereal1084 i think its possible they would be classmates. Colvin did hamsterdam not bc he was already retiring, but bc he had the security of a major's pension. I reckon Avon/Stringer were a little older than that. Hell, D'Angelo seemed to be around that age and he was Avon's nephew. I guess the casting is a little misleading
@vladkonstantinov16 @BrandonRedPill @@jacobb5625 Just finished a rewatch. Avon was mentioned as being 31 when the show started, so Stringer could only be a year older or younger realistically as they grew up together. Colvin mentions to Namond that he and his wife have kids that are grown and have moved out of home so surely that put him at the very least 40 years of age, but you would have to guess he is probably older given his rank and pending retirement. There is also a mention of him joining the BPD in 1973 on Wikipedia, but I don't recall seeing that in the show. I'm only confident of this because I JUST finished a rewatch last week. Not trying to blow anybody up!
"Speak your mind, Russel." That explains their whole extremely unique relationship in one sentence. Two people respecting each others role in the current system, accepting the reality and trying to work out a solution that works in the interest of both sides.
2:20 - Classic Colvin: "He must have done something to you..." He didn't have to say it, but he did and it worked. Colvin was a good read of people - especially the guys on the street and those in his unit. You sensed he cared, which was surprisingly why the guys on the street trusted him, even if he was going to lock them up. Colvin was one of those type of guys, if you got in his presence, he would pick up stuff about you, yet you sense he cared enough to notice. He was sort of like a 'Dad'..
avon got judicial justice at the hands of stringer, the legitimate business man. stringer on the other hand got street justice from avon, omar and mouzone. just shows the difference between how avon and string operated, they were coming at problems from two different worlds.
@Ricky Homan Great TV show and you don't got to be from Baltimore to repeat lines about it. Btw I'm from India originally and grew up in the hood in Jamaica, NY.
Both of these men are so similar, an awesome thing The Wire did was at the two scenes where both men fell, they had them say "Get on with it motha-!" Also, awesome foreshadowing in this scene, they meet at a graveyard...I don't think thats a coincidence.
@Jesse Brennan at this time they were both trying to change the culture of their respective hierarchical systems. And both got spat out/destroyed for doing so. It's a parallel, rather than a personality comparison
The Wire is too smart of a show for it to be a coincidence. If you think Stringer is no more complex than "just a disgusting rat" than the show is wasted on you, frankly.
Kind've funny how Stringer and Avon spent a lot of time in Season 1 & 2 trying to silence people who might talk to the police and snitch on the Barksdales, yet in the end it was Stringer who would actually be the one to talk to the police and inform on Avon which ultimately got him arrested. After all that talk about D'Angelo talking to the police and Stringer believing it was necessary to kill D in order to make sure that he didn't talk and that he was a liability, it just makes Stringer having D'angleo killed harder to take in.
This scene definitely shows a slightly more human side to Stringer. He shows it in certain other scenes, but when Colvin stops to just take a look at him, he could tell how truly hurt Stringer was at doing all of this. Despite being a business man first and foremost, this was anything but 'just business'. Stringer more or less had been digging his own grave since S2, but I'd be lying if I didn't say that he and Avon, and their relationship was one of my favorite things about the show. And also why season 1 is still my favorite to this day. I can't begin to put into words how life changing and how brilliant this show is. There will never be anything else like this. Ever. Probably not for a long time at least.
@Realjayrome then why did he make sure he only got the paroke violation and not the serious years that the guns would of gotten him....stringer was clearly (although snitching like a bitch) doing it for a strategic reason so he could set shit up his way and nukriple years and by then he believes Avon would be down with it....he was visibly upset about Colvin not knowing if he could keep the charge to a parole violation
I find it interesting that even though Stringer wanted Avon outta the picture, he tried to get Colvin to book Avon only on the Parole Violation (the five years he mentioned), instead of getting caught up in the weapons charges what would entail considerably mor ejail time. Shows that even though Stringer's setting up his man Avon for time behind bars, he still trying to do minimize the damage.
What would have been crazy, as Stringer was walking away from Colvin, Stringer seen D’Angelo grave mark and just pause for a second and look back at Colvin, knowing his time was almost up.
People like comparing them because of how they tried the change drug distribution dynamics. But they couldn't be farther apart. Stringer was motivated by greed, power, and money. Bunny was motivated by his caring nature and desire to make a positive impact on the community.
Stringer actually did the right thing trying to get Avon sent back to Jessup, since he knew the war would cost them everything, maybe even their lives. It wasn't worth it, they already had enough legit money plus their drug income, it was Avon's pride obviously. They both had flaws, they both turned on each other, but the game is the game, so obviously Avon comes out on top even though you can see he was very upset about having to give up his 'brother'.
Adam Apex #TVN #DVN That's the point though, Stringer did NOT beg or plead. He made a half assed offer about giving them money and being a better friend to them alive, but he saw in their eyes they wanted him dead. Brother Mouzone doesn't even say anything because they all 3 already know. Stringer was too smart for his own good. He went out like a man, not a sniveling little bitch who shits his pants like Andy Krawchek I HATED that fucker, him and Clay Davis make everyone else look like altar boys.
Adam Apex #TVN #DVN He wasn't acting. He briefly tried to buy them off but quickly seen they didn't care about money so he swallowed and took a deep breath and took it like a man.
I love how Colvin correctly asserted that Avon hurt Stringer. Stringer had time to back up on snitching, because the first time it was just informing that Avon had gotten shot. Stringer tried to say it was business like Avon not compromising with Marlo was the reason, but bro was hurt that Clay played him and Avon called him out on it and wouldn't hit Clay.
I don't know which scene is more heartbreaking: this one, the scene with Brother and Avon, the scene with Avon and Stringer, or when Avon found out String snitched
You know what’s so ironic about Stringer? He eventually came around to D’Angelo’s ideology of playing the game. D said to Bodie, Poot and Wallace way back in the beginning of the show that police weren’t concerned about the poor communities getting high on drugs, just the violence and murders associated with it. D was a hustler and could play the game and could be violent when he needed to be but his heart wasn’t with all of the violence. He always said the game don’t gotta be played like that. He was wrong in his thinking because the game has to be played like that. There has to be violence, there has to be bloodshed and there has to be death. This is an illegal enterprise and the only type of “regulation” and system of checks and balances is violence. There’s no governing council or entity that you can go to when you get robbed or jumped or whatever. Even the co-op would have eventually failed because there’s always going to be a Marlo type of person who will upset that balance and re introduce the violent nature that this game is built on. Stringer was all for the violence and beef in season one but slowly he came around to D’s thinking of playing the game with no violence and just profiting. I understand why he chose to have D killed but if he actually ever sat down and really got D’s thoughts on the game, he would have realized his own philosophy was very similar to D’s. I wonder what D would have thought about the game if he were alive to see Marlo’s reign.
Stringer probably left and started asking people in the crew who is snitching lately. Dude was an absolute perfectly written slimy businessman thug character.
When I first watched The Wire, the connection between Bunny and Stringer Bell for some reason led me to think that Bunny was some drug leader hidden in the police.
naw. bunny use to work the beat, on the same corners avon crew grew up on. It was pretty much said in the scene with colvin and weebey talking about namond
Love the nuance of Colvin being cautious about taking the address piece of paper from Stringer, almost like he feels bad for Stringer like giving him one last out of giving his lifelong friend up, even though both were on opposite sides, Colvin knew the ramifications of what stringer was doing.
By far my favorite scene in the wire. In one scene it captures the political maneuvering of a criminal (for the greater good of his people), and the actions of natural police (for the greater good of his). I love how Colvin calls Stringer by his actual name, showing how in depth he knows his district. I definitely could see a resemblance between Bodie and Carver developing into something like this too. BEST SHOW EVER MADE
@DreadfulControversy They likely knew each other for years prior, similar to how Carrver and McNulty had a relationship with Bodie. In season 4 when Colvin talked with Weebay "I use to bang up on ya'll all the time" basically showed they knew each other from way back. Considering Weebay Avon and Stringer all came up together it fits
Yeh exactly right, beauty of the subtlety of the show. It is clear that they know each other from previous interactions, and once more a testament to cops like Colvin and Carver who know and understand the people they are chasing.
@seekisforme5 Did you not watch the show? Stringer the "good dude" was the guy who had D'Angelo killed even tho D was cool with doing his years, then hid behind Avon's back. He then went behind Avon's back and took the package from Prop Joe, despite Avon telling him not to. He then set up Mouzone to have him killed, further damaging Avon's rep. He messed up on so many different levels. Avon had to give him up or else he was gonna lose his NYC connection. Like Stringer himself said, it's business
Everyone assuming the retired Colvin went to school with the mid 30s Stringer and Avon? Did yall miss the Carver/Randy/FayetteMafiaCrew parallel here? Colvin straight up admits he used to chase Wee Bey when he was really young to his face lol.
Amazing how he in a graveyard and says its just business and Avon had him killed for the sake of business love when a show makes go in different emotional directions
The way Colvin and String’s meeting alternated with Avon and Brother in the barbershop only showed me how String was veering away from his path as Avon’s #2. He was attempting to be “normal,” or as normal as he could. In my opinion, normal, everyday people would do what String did. Meanwhile, Avon was “just a gangster, he supposed,” and set up Avon how gangsters would. Out of line? You’re out.
Definitely the most horrifying dialogue in the Wire is the one they have just before that. - He knows what he knows, but he only knows my name... and my name is not my name. And you? To them, you're only "the Greek". - And of course, I'm not even Greek... Compared to them, even Clay Davis and Andy Krawczyk were playing with a laughable amount of money. Plus, they were uncatchable, untouchable and had the FBI in their pockets.
I always liked colvin. He was a good guy who really tried to make things better I always thought he mirrored stringer they were similar just on opposite sides they both tried to reform their respective institutions and were punished for it
If anyone was truly evil it was Marlo. Stringer wanted to treat drug dealing like a business. This approach could have led to a drop in the murder rate. So he was working towards a more noble end than Marlo, even if he was doing it for purely selfish reasons.
It's so crazy that they don't spell it out Colvin policed them when they were young. But you can see it in the hate and contempt on Colvins face when he first meets him
@Itsasony thats why i put "in their grave." He doesnt literally die like String but him not getting his major rank when he retired and Hamsterdam falling apart, that symbolized his "death."
@Shack83 thats my thoughts too. The Wire always showed the revolving cycling of "the game", so this scene could've predicted how carver and bodie might have played out, just a thought.
@@MichaelJordan-xp3yb And Stringer bought that on himself. That's what you get for being devious and not having a code. Avon had a code which is why he gave up him up.
Avon didnt sell stringer out...stringer sold himself out...he played away games like avon said..he played the street game wrong..bad moves, and avon tried to save stringer but he couldnt
Can’t say that Avon sold him out. If you look at it, they both actually tried to save each other from their fates, Stringer was much closer to his goal of trying to get Avon just the five years in prison, but Avon couldn’t save Stringer even though he really tried. Everything Stringer did from season 2 forward caught up to him, all the things Avon warned him not to do that he did anyway caught up to him and that’s why Avon had to let that happen. And it actually hurt him to do that as you see after with his interactions with Slim Charles.
He meant that Barksdale was going to end up serving atleast 5 years. I think String only intended for the cops to hit Avon with the parole violation and he was just going to serve his remaining four years from his previous sentence. I don't think Stringer wanted Avon gone forever, maybe just long enough to keep them from going to war and long enough for him to legitamize his business ventures....(real estate and whatnot).
The fact that Stringer actually thought he could get away with snitching on Avon and live afterwards shows how stupid he really was. He actually thought he could give up Avon and it wouldn't get back to him or he wouldn't figure it out who betrayed him. Stringer problem is he thought he was way smarter then what he was and in the end that what got him dead, even if Mozzone and Omar missed him Avon or someone in the crew would have figured it out and killed him, Stringer was dead either way.
This was the beginning of Stringers downfall - he was desperate and out of touch with the street vs his idealogical "businessman" approach to the issues and I also feel like he secretly wanted Avon's spot. Avon starts to see through Stringers shit but keeps shrugging it off in the earlier episodes/seasons until Brother Mouzone shows up and confirms that he knows String tried to get him killed/have Omar killed and that he never told Avon about the double crossing he was doing behind his back.
I think its the other way around. People in the game so caught up in the gangster shit couldn't see the bigger picture. It almost worked, but Avon destroyed the co-op. Literally.
How can this be the beginning?! The beginning was what happened to Brandon. He went beyond necessary. Later examples include telling Avon about D'Angelo when Stringer's pride was hurt after Avon said he wasn't "hard enough for this shit right here", and setting Omar on Mouzone. Avon even tried to save Stringer even at the last
Can’t really say that’s true because Stringer actually did that to himself. He let Prop Joe get into his head and turned against his own brother Avon. I wonder how Stringer would have felt doing business with Joe if he found out Joe set Omar on Avon to have him killed. Stringer did a lot of foul things, many of those things were exactly exactly the opposite of what Avon ordered. Meanwhile Avon, who built his reputation off of honor and respect, he had no choice but to give Stringer up or lose all he built up. Stringer brought that Omar and Brother Mouzone heat on himself by going against Avon’s wishes and allying himself with their worst enemy. Stringer was breaking every rule and it caught up to him. Then he snitched on Avon to get him out the way so he could establish the co-op which was no guarantee it would work and with Marlo in the picture we see exactly why the co-op wasn’t going to last. He snitched on Avon, the same thing he got D’Angelo and Wallace killed over.
I kind of agree with this. Stringer I've seen as a Michael Corleone type, someone trying to turn the business legitimate, but there's always one person who needs to fall or get murdered before that can happen, and ultimately it never does happen. He gets "got" for trying to change a game with hard and fast rules, as does Colvin in a manner of speaking.
That man is NOT your brother if you set up his own nephew to be killed, making it look like he hung himself… That man is NOT your brother if you go to the police and give them direct information on how and where they can arrest him….. Avon even after learning what happened to his nephew, he STILL tried to negotiate for “Stringer’s” life…. What happened to “Stringer Bell” was everything coming full circle, and he was the cause of it.
Looking back on this series a lot of people say Stringer was out for self but I truly believe Avon is who fucked it up. When Avon got out of jail, Stringer has a good thing going for the whole crew. He had Prop Joe package and he had a seat on the New Day Co-op. Avon came back home with his street nigga mentality bullshit and wanted to go to war with Marlo right away. I liked Avon but in the end Stringer was right when he said if Avon don’t give this shit up, everything they built was gonna turn to shit and that is exactly what happened. Not to shit on Avon or nothing but he was a short term thinker and Stringer thought past just the streets, which is why in the end they wound up stepping on each other’s toes. Avon and Stringer tried to step over each other and in the end they didn’t lose to Marlo or Omar and Brother Mouzone but themselves. Avon lost to himself because of what he was and Stringer lost to himself because he was too much a business man to understand the street but too much of a gangster to understand business. Kind of fucked up when you think about the fact that had these two put their heads together they could’ve easily beat Marlo.
I'd love to see a show of young Colvin walking his beat, but I know that (in today's media/entertainment standard) it would suck. At least we got The Wire.
