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Angela Vorpahl in your opinion, do you think it’s better to go to a T14 school and go into debt to pay for it, or go to a lower ranked school (maybe around rank 50 or above) but not go into debt?
@@kierstenvandervelde6646 Great question, and the answer is (very frustratingly I know), it depends. A Top 50 law school is still a Tier 1 law school so you're still going to get a shot at BigLaw jobs during OCI, and depending on the law school and your LSAT/GPA you could potentially get a lot of scholarship money (or a totally full scholarship) to go to a lower ranked law school if you have the LSAT/GPA to get into a T14 law school. I would say that the factors to consider if I were making the decision are: (1) the strength of the legal market in the city where the non-T14 law school is located, (2) how much scholarship money you're being offered at the non-T14 law school, (3) where you want to live and work after law school, and (4) (if you happen to know) what legal sector you'd like to enter when you graduate law school. I put together a video and free download to help you guys work your way through this decision, if you want to check it out here: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-_eTI6K76fds.html And if you have already know all the details above and are still struggling with the decision, send me a DM on Instragram (@angelavorpahl) with the specifics, and I can give you my thoughts :) Angela
Hey Angela! I’m an incoming 1L. I’ve watched your videos and talked to some friends in law school about how to best study. I understand the concept of pre-reading, outlining, then making your CAN. This will seem obvious to you, but I’m wondering how many cases per lecture we will go over. Do we go over one case per lecture for every class? Or is it more fluid and some days we will go over many cases? I’m curious because the number cases per day will dictate the amount of time I’ll be able to spend per case. Thank you so much for all your help on this channel! :)
@@vollyballchick002 Hi! So you will usually be assigned to read 3-5 cases per class. Some cases are short (like 5-10 pages), others are longer (like 30-40 pages), and so overall you will likely be reading around 100 pages per night. I would say that if you are reading the cases line by line and creating case briefs on each case that you can get through about 15-20 pages per hour, so that would translate into about 5-7 hours of reading per night. So it's definitely a lot (which is a big reason why law school is so overwhelming), but you will get faster and more efficient as you make your way through the semester and through law school :) A tip I always tell my students is to read a case overview summary before actually sitting down to read the case (which you can get from Westlaw, Lexis, Quimbee, or sometimes even Wikipedia), because then you'll have a baseline understanding of what the case is about and what the important takeaways are before you dive into actually reading the case word for word (which can get extremely overwhelming).
Interesting perspective. It just shows that everyone's experience is different and no one's experience is necessarily the right one. Law school is definitely a journey!
Yeah this video definitely came out a bit strong, I have to admit. I have since heard from people who used some of these study tactics in law school and said they worked for them. So it's tough sometimes to draw the line between trying to give the best advice I can and not discount other people's experiences. I'm have no doubt I'll continue to struggle with that line going forward, but always with the goal of giving the best possible advice I can... Just checked out your channel by the way! I love the content! Just subscribed!
I start 3L next week and I really wish I had this advice my 1L year! There's so much advice out there like study groups or waiting to outline that never felt quite right for me. It's helpful to hear different perspectives so you can figure out what works best for you.
Congratulations on your final year!! That's so exciting! Agreed, there is a ton of advice out there and it makes it really hard to sift through what is "good" "bad" or "neutral" advice. I know I come out swinging kind of hard on this video, but I really wanted to debunk some of the advice I'd been hearing that I really didn't think was helping law students. And the good news is that everyone will eventually find out what works for them, but hopefully it's helpful to hear advice that resonates from the outset :)
Agree with you on your points! There’s no way I could’ve taken notes by hand! I know people who tested and took the bar by hand, though! Crazy! Very few of my law school exams were open book, so I guess it depends on school and professors!
Oh interesting! I started having closed book exams, multiple choice exams, and take-home exams my 2L year, but it's good to know that some law schools do it differently! Were all of your 1L exams still "issue spotter" exams, or were they all different styles?
Angela Vorpahl yes they were! All essays at that! Essays were my strong point so I didn’t mind it at all and i was good at memorizing so i was able to pick up extra easy points lol
Thank you for your video again! I wonder if this would make a topic on its own, but I'd love to hear about what kind of relationship we should have with our professors, 1L and beyond. During 1L, instead of going to study groups for clarification of the study materials, should we go to office hours instead? Are professors willing read over your practice answers to practice exams? etc.
Great question! YES. You should definitely go to office hours to get your questions about the material answered. I recommend once every 4 weeks during the semester, ideally after you've done a practice exam question. Now, keep in mind, there are generally going to be 100+ law students in a class, so you generally can't go to your professor and ask him/her to read over your practice exam answer (because they would then have to invest the time in doing that for everyone), BUT you definitely can (and should) make a list of pointed questions about things you don't understand as you are outlinining and doing practice exams --- questions like, "how do these two legal concepts fit together," or "I have in my notes that this factor analysis is X but it doesn't seem to conflict with this other analysis," or "I did a practice exam question about contract formation but I'm not quite clear on how the parol evidence rule applies here." Show the professor that you've put in the work, that you've made an effort to figure out or understand the issue on your own, and they will be SO much more open to helping you and answering your questions because you're showing that you respect their time and are not giving into the temptation to just dump 50 questions on them without thinking them through. The problem with study groups is that you could present these same questions, you theoretically could get answers to your questions, but it's going to take a lot more time and energy to wade through the other discussion and unknowns, from people who are trying to learn the material for the first time just like you, to be able to pull out a few nuggets of helpfulness. A much more efficient and direct approach is to go to the source (the professor), get your questionos answered in 30 minutes, and keep going with the study steps. :) P.S. And the bonus is that you're going to be building a relationship with your professor :) I hope this helps! Angela
@@AngelaVorpahl Thank you so much Angela! The examples for what to ask really help, and I love the recommendation for when and how often to visit professors too!
@@Kiuraish great tips. You definitely don't want to keep bugging the professor every week (or every other werk) or emailing them with open-ended questions. Good luck!
How does law school change your speaking skills in terms of speed and agility? How does it change your brain chemistry? Please answer these questions for international students.
As far as public speaking skills, you don't get a lot of practice in the courses themselves, but you can absolutely participate in extracurriculars that can help you develop those skills, specifically moot court, mock trial, and litigation-oriented clinics. As far as brain chemisty, I have zero idea if any changes are made there, but law school does help you identify critical facts to craft an argument (i.e. "think like a lawyer").
M in last year of my law school and i totally feel what u say. About study groups and patrern of exams, hwz it not limited only to memorising certain facts. 🙌
many people see law school as a potential networking opportunity. Do you think such opportunity exists in law school, and if so, what do you recommend as an alternative to “study groups” that would still allow students to form those peer to peer relationships?
Definitely! Networking in general and interacting with your 1L classmates in particular is super valuable! Every law school does it a bit differently, but many will divide 1Ls into sections, and you'll have all (or most) of your classes with those same people either all semester or (like us) all year long. So you'll get to know those people well just by physical proximity and seeing them all the time. But all law schools also organize 1L social events, the most common one being "bar review," where they pick a different bar each week which is the designated place for 1Ls to hang out and get to know each other. Now that we're in COVID-19 times, I assume your law school will organize some type of virtual happy hour event. Some law schools also have 1L Facebook groups, and if they don't you can definitely start your own and I have no doubt everyone will join it because everyone wants to get to know and connect with everyone in a low-investment/low-stress way. Once you reach 2L year and start focusing on particular extracurriculars (law review, moot court, mock trial, etc.) you will get to know those people even better because those groups will be much much smaller and you'll be working together every week. So, yes, definitely network and connect and follow each other on social media, but I just wouldn't recommend sacrificing studying time (especially 1L year) to do it, which is what study groups usually wind up doing.
@@AngelaVorpahl I love this question and your answer! Yes this is definitely a fear of mine, that not studying in groups all the time would make me come across as "stuck up" or "gunner," but that is perhaps not a rational worry!
What is your opinion on going to an unranked law school? I am considering Southern University in Baton Rouge,LA. I had a low undergrad gpa (2.78) but not because of lack of ability, I just had a lot going on during that time. My diagnostic LSAT had me in the low 150s and I haven’t even studied yet. I know that with a high LSAT there I could get a good scholarship. Also I can live with my parents and not have to pay rent. I could leave law school debt free or with minimal debt. The problem is I’m concerned that job prospects will be too low. Im interested in employee-side employment law. I’d love to work for a firm like Outten & Golden.
*Interested in a firm LIKE them that does the same type of work. I’m pretty sure they wouldn’t even look at someone from Southern. I looked at all their associates’ backgrounds today and they were all standouts. Maybe if I got a clerkship somewhere great... I also looked into the Peggy Browning fellowship, that would really help me.
That doesn't sound like a good choice of a law school. Try to score higher on the LSAT and go to a decent public school. I've never heard of Southern Law School, & I practice employment law in NC, btw. Good luck!
Hi Ashley! I would definitely look at the law school's Bar passage rate and employment statistics to see how many graduates are finding jobs and in which sectors. This information is something the ABA requires every accredited law school to provide, so I would definitely check that out so you can see what types of employers are hiring from that law school and how many law students they're hiring.
@@ashleypatterson1867 For sure! I also wouldn't discount other Louisiana law schools just yet. A somewhat accepted estimate of how much people improve from their diagnostic LSAT score to their actual LSAT score after taking a full-blown LSAT prep course is 10-15 points. So if your LSAT diagnostic is 150, you're looking at a possibility of scoring in the 160s, which is a really great LSAT score. So I would definitely expand my search a bit to other law schools you may possibly be considering, check their median LSAT/GPAs (google "XXX law school median LSAT"), and start getting a sense for where you may be competitive. And keep in mind that a high LSAT score can make up for a lower GPA so don't count yourself out of the race :)
What do you mean by reading the case and go over the supplements online? Like what are the supplements online? Also when should you outline like after each class or? Also wow I didn’t realize that law exams are open book.
Good question! My recommendation is to always read an online case summary before you sit down to read a case because the online case summary will tell you exactly what the case is about, the most important facts, and the most relevant takeaways, which makes it SO much easier to understand the case as you read it through it because you already know the basics of the information you're looking for. These online case summaries can come from Westlaw, Lexis, Quimbee, or honestly wikipedia does a really decent job of summarizing cases too :)
Mike Watkins Sr. I could be wrong, but some lower ranked schools are closed book because they try to get their bar pass rates up by being hardcore on their students..... but, I could be wrong.
Hi Angela, I’ve watching your videos and find the content extremely useful so thank you very much for the time. I’m about to turn 39 years old, I have a MBA and will be going to law school part time next year. What are your thoughts on a newly 44 year old lawyer? How difficult will it be for me from your experience? As of now, I will be applying to T14 schools but unless I get accepted to one of them, I will mostly likely attend a regional university law school (ranked 94 full time and 24 part time)
Hi Michael! I'm so glad the videos have been helpful! Your question is so timely because I just reached out to my network to hear more about the experiences of attorneys who had attended law school as a second career later in life, and I received SO many fantastic and helpful insights! I'm going to be compiling them together to make a video, but to give you a quick overview: 1. Your experience is actually very powerful in the law school admissions process because law schools really like the diversity that prior experience brings. 2. Your experience can also be a great asset in interviews with legal employers, especially if you have experience in a particular industry that could be useful to the clients they serve. But keep in mind that there will be some legal employers that may have questions about your ability to start back at zero taking instruction and direction from professionals much younger than you, so you'll want to assure them that you are eager and willing to learn and contribute and work your way up just like everyone else. Or skip that experience entirely and start your own law firm right out of the gate :) More to come soon! Angela
What's your opinion about international students practicing law in the USA (especially during today's weird and uncertain times due to the pandemic situation)? Which states would be the best for them? I'm about to start an LLM program at USC and I was thinking about where should I apply for the bar exam given the fact that I'm willing to practice law in the US. Thank you!
USC (Southern California not South Carolina, I assume) sounds like a good choice, because LA is very diverse, with people from many countries and cultures.
Hi Bucur! Many LLM students decide to sit for the New York Bar both because it looks good on their resume but also because New York is a UBE state that may qualify you to practice in other UBE states as well. That being said, I would definitely talk with USC's LLM career development office because they can tell you the strategy that most of their LLM students use. California has not currently adopted the UBE, but if you're thinking of looking for a job in CA after graduation that might be the best move for you!
Hi Angela, is it possible for someone to transfer from a lower ranking law school to a top tier law school? Considering they weren’t competitive enough to get in a top tier school applying directly from undergrad.
Hey Marcus! The short answer is yes! There's not a ton of spots open for transfer students, but most (if not all) law schools have at least a handful of spots open to transfer students after 1L year, (and in the 2017-2018 cycle, Georgetown law admitted 105 transfer students). These spots are reserved for students who rank at the very top of their class after 1L year (at least top 10% if not higher depending on the rank of your law school and where you're trying to transfer to). That's not to say that ranking at the very top of your class coming from any law school would allow you to get into Harvard (for example), but you could potentially jump rankings by 50 or 60 spots (or in some cases 100 spots!). Here are some other helpful articles to check out with more specific numbers and law school admits: www.usnews.com/education/blogs/law-admissions-lowdown/articles/2019-07-22/data-based-tips-for-law-school-transfer-applicants blog.spiveyconsulting.com/which-law-schools-had-the-most-transfers-in-and-out/ lawschooltoolbox.com/ahead-of-the-curve-so-you-want-to-transfer-law-schools/
Thank you so much for this reply and the resources! This helps so much! I really appreciate this!! Love your channel and videos. You’ve helped me more than you know!
Great question! The 5 Step Study Plan that I teach in my course is: (1) reading notes, (2) class notes, (3) outlines, (4) canned answers, and (5) practice exams. The biggest mistake that law students make is spending a HUGE portion of the semester on reading notes (usually at least 2/3rds or more), and either never make it to the other steps, or start them way too late.
