The WORST Top Tier I've Ever Seen | War Thunder 

The only thing good about the F4F ICE, is its cold AF wallpaper.

Mfers when a jet from the 1960s upgraded to modern standard isnt good: 😮

If there's anything we've learned from the past year... if we REALLY put the pressure on Gaijin for the crap they refuse to fix in their game, they will attempt to fix most of what we complain about. We need to put nonstop pressure on them for BR decompression, lower player counts, revamped air gameplay and more nuanced maps, and potentially new game modes... because otherwise, nothing will ever be changed. Their motto seems to be little changes combined with shiny new toys to keep the majority of the player base happy so that they never actually have to change much. This needs to stop.

And if you thought the F-4F ICE was bad, wait until you try the Sea Harrier FA2.

90 counter measures at top tier is ridiculous and when you run out you can’t even hide at ground level anymore this jet is terrible.

This is one reason why I wanted the Eurofighter Typhoon to be added to Germany or just a Swiss F-18 Hornet. There is actually a Typhoon variant called Tranche 1 where it only carries AIM-120 and AIM-9, and has Captor-M radar which is just the same as the F-16C radar. But everyone denies and hated my idea. Eurofighter Typhoon Tranche 1. Service: 2003 Radar: Captor-M (mechanically scanned array radar) Air to Air Weaponry: AIM-120, AIM-9.

They could've at least add some BOL pods to justify the BR it sits at. A lot of planes need BOL pods actually with this update.

cant believe germany just does not get any top tiers anymore since 3 updates

Poor German Mains. They have been asking for the ICE for years. When they finally get it, it's DOA.

still don´t know why gaijin put that thing at 12.7 absolutely stupid

Well that's maybe your opinion, I like it. Flank the team, try to hide behind terrain to get medium to close distance, then hit them from the side, attack the idiots returning to base when running out of missiles or attack runways without spaa with mavericks. Just focus on your RWR and it will benefit next update when ECM pod arrive.

Germany should've gotten the benelux tree instead of france cuz they already got the mirage and the MICA-EM

Gaijin trying everything Not to add the Eurofighter to the game

Move all 13.0's to 14.0! LMAO F this crap. Just make 13.0, 13.3, and 13.7 'banned' BRs and give us a space!

I genuinely hope that if they add the F-18 they give Germany the Swiss F-18.

I see alot of "Nah mate, sea harrier is worse." in here. 12.3 and 12.7 are eons apart when it comes to pain atm...

No matter how low to the ground I get this patch, missiles still hit me square on, it feels like multipath is just straight up not working anymore.

I think this is one of the best updates in WT. Aircraft have finally stopped crawling on the ground like a fucking shrews

After flying this and the other F4F something that helps me conserve energy and keep my self somewhat quick in turns is dropping combat flaps when you go just below mach 1. It'll pull less AoA and conserve your airspeed way better than just straight turning without them.

ICE should've been added a bit longer ago tbh, probably together with the Su-27, F-15A and F-16C to combat the R-27ER spam And the F-4F ICE would prob be fine at 12.3. You have the F-14 spam happening and those are mostly in downtiers now without anyone being able to fight back against them on their terms

12.3 is a BR this thing should be in, aim 120s are so easy to evade it is not even funny, It is an F4F airframe that can get murdered by everything, it has no HMD, The F 15A which is at 12.3 is straight up better than this thing is almost every other way other than the fact the ICE get's AIM 120s which is a missile that get's kills only if the enemy allows it, 12.3 should have been the BR for that thing should have been added in.

75% of the problems with top tier ARB could be solved by making teams smaller and adding bigger maps

I just finished researching mine this morning. I see im in for some fun when i got home

I know it's irrelevant and very niche... But since that thing in GRB is 11.7 that means if you are very lucky you could get a 10.7 Downtier, and chuging AAMRAMS at this BR would be hilarious.

Interesting info about the 75m tall trees, you are the first youtuber to bring this up!

Yet everyone says skill issue which is the biggest cop out in this game, die to friendly fire “skill issue” 500 deaths to 250 kills in the m1a2 sep “skill issue” 15 missiles flying at from planes that carry 10 missiles and you have 30 counter measures “skill issue” dieing to an 11.3 plane in your 10.0 plane “skill issue” mind 0 countermeasures this game is the most unbalanced non sense I’ve ever played in my entire life with a community that is just a toxic and ridiculous as COD players that actually believe skill is how fast your mouse travels to a virtual target lol

This is probably the best update because the fact the not a lot of people hug the ground any more it’s become a lot more realistic and it requires more skill of bvr fighting than just hugging the deck

I really liked reading Gaijin's reasoning for the multipath change. Like it's been the way it has been for so long up to now and they're just like "yea it's too good it was made for heli's no planes... nerf. Fire and Forget radar missiles are here :D" Like fr? But it's been the way it has all this time for jets? Alright snail lmao. On a serious note: I've enjoyed the change and found myself flying at altitude most games now... once I got the Active's. The obvious caveat: this is probably the worst stock grind ever, combined with using anything within that 13.0 bracket (to grind out your new top tier) that simply doesn't have any of the Active missiles, and semi-actives are practically useless against the Actives. I'd say the ER is still decent simply because of its insane performance but you may just find yourself doing 1 for 1 trades more so than with Sparrows or other Semi's. It's extremely double edged. Good for the top top since it kills the ground hugging and creates a more dynamic battle, but awful for the just below top because that is simply their most reliable way to defeat these missiles. I had an Su-27SM hugging the ocean and I was behind him firing AMRAAM's... they were getting multipathed into the water... I had a teammate kill the guy with his own AMRAAM because he was higher altitude and was able to get the top down shot. Not only does the effect kick in at 60m now... but it's also nowhere near as extreme because 60m is the equivalent to what 100m was: That's the point it starts to happen. Basically the maximum strength you can get from it is nowhere near what it was since it only starts kicking in at a much lower altitude... it's effectively 40% weaker.

We need top tier enduring confontation

You grind the German tech tree, only to get funny'd for a few extra Months

I'm a PS4 slim player, and right now trying to play top tier is like a slide show. My FPS drops dramatically fairly often. All of the missiles and separate radars are wreaking hell on my poor old PS4. I suppose I ought to stick to 11.7 and lower for now

I agree the f4f ICE is awful but dont like modern tactics? Dont play modern jets, simple as that. Yea we need smaller team sizes but dont act as if every game if you bvr you're stuck in an endless loop of fire at 30km - turn away - recommit - repeat. 9 times out of 10 both teams push closer and closer while bvring until one side dies, and then whoever is remaining dives on the people who went low.

I was all in for lowering multipathing height but only for sim gamemode. After getting amraams on f16c im playing only in sim and i'm having a blast with it but im not gonna touch RB for a while.

The F4F ICE should have been added as an introductory aircraft to Active Fox 3’s After the Grippen got its last FM change. It should have been top teir with the SARH aircraft AND THEN they should have started adding the ARH supporting versions of the top SARH aircraft. Truly another Gaijin moment. That’ll be 70$, Petard. It’s just insulting tbh.

Also Gaijin saying that this has good flight characteristics compared to other Phantoms is simply a lie. It is the heaviest Phantom empty, and just has a smaller maximum fuel load. All the other stats are exactly identical to the F-4E in the flight model. Its only advantage is weight distribution when loaded with fuel, but I don't think anyone is going to bring max fuel in any of the Phantoms.

Totally agree with you this update is only making the glaring issues of top tier even worse

Honestly just swap the the aim 9l/i for regular 9 L the aim 120 for for aim 7m and make it 11.7, it would be mutch better

activate ur windows bro

The F4F ice would be a perfectly fine plane to add alongside a competetive top tier aircraft for germany like dutch f16 or swiss f/a18

They only made that so that they didn't have to give the Mig-29G the R-77

Yeah, for a PS4 player that has 70-1 games on 10.7 getting uptiered often to SARH missles it's already painfull to fly just above the tree top and I activated the 12vs12 from when it was added, still every single game was 16vs16 so yeah.

I usually agree with you guys but im loving top tier right now its kinda nice not having everyone hug the ground. I do wish there was smaller lobbies though. I think they are scared of a situation they created of the the premium bombers destroying smaller lobbies

the f4f ice is definitely painful to grind it doesn't get amraam until you reach tier 4 and during the entire time, you are struggling to get kills i highly recommend to get the rockets and bomb bases until u get the amraams which will take u quite a while then after u get the amraam continue to fly low, carry rockets and just keep going at it and use the amraams to get an occasional missile kill for maps that don't really allow for terrain masking, recommend to stick to your team and hope for the best if this aircraft got gbu's it would make this a pretty nice ground attack aircraft, but it doesnt so dam

5:02 I have to disagree. This is the most fun I’ve had playing top tier since I got it October last year. I think this update is a massive step in the right direction for top tier, and this is the most enjoyable it’s been for me ever. BVR is much more fun than deck hugging and the IRCCM clusterfuck that top tier has been since October, it’s more tactical, and it takes skill. Now before people say, “oH bUt tHesE miSsiLEs aRe bRokEn it’S jUst pOiNt aNd cLiCk”, yes, it does take skill, not to kill, but to stay alive to get more kills. Everyone has a good missile (the R77 is meant for close range not 35 miles stop whining russian mains) and everyone can get a lot of kills, it is simply a matter of if you have good awareness and positioning. It’s not very enjoyable for some, but me and a whole lot of other people are stoked about this update. Remember, this is just my opinion, and I’d to hear more peoples that don’t agree with me, I want to see your reasoning, I want to see both sides of the playing field, not just my own

Gaijin couldve done the Japan move and added the EFT DA1,in fact is more real than the japan F16A since it actually existed and flew around 300 tests...had tornado engines,4x9Ms and 4x AIM120A and 0 ground ordnance...

I just got to the F-15A before the patched dropped and I cannot stand to play it since it only see's jets with Fox-3s.....

I just stoped playing planes above 11,3 since the update. My bf and i dont have the nerves for this chaos 😂

Why tf did I grind Germany

The thing that gaijin needs to change is putting some new low tier plane (if they find one).

The issue isn't multipathing or 16v16, the issue is, that we've got a sandbox, which can only accommodate the strongest fighters. There is absolutely no place for any other planes in AB, if you want to have a fair game. You could make it 1v1 with multipathing set to 1km and the F-4 would still loose most of the time against a F-15, while still dominating an A-10. Enable each plane to actually fulfill their intended role with proper game mode(s) and have an equal impact on the outcome within their role and you will see, that multipathing or 16v16 was never the real problem.

It feels like pure SB plane

Those trees are only for that specific map and it was a bug, they're fixed now

Top tier is just aweful. Idk how tf Gaijin thinks this is acceptable.

Trees don’t stop missles. Trust me…..

i dont really understand why this thing is 12.7 when the F-14A is 11.7

I think we can all agree that War Thunder has to get to this point eventually. The reduction of MP and addition of Fox-3, REALLY highlights the fundamental issues top tier has and have had for a long time. Fox-3 and 60m MP made the problems worse and the game is not ready for it when the teams are still too big (12v12 makes pretty much no difference), maps arent meant to support the large scale BVR experience, the poor management of BRs, and ofc the terrible stock grind that is also not optimized for top tier either. If ALL of these issues were fixed, some bigger maps, more AF spawns, more objectives, 10v10, stock radar missiles + chaff, and a better BR system, MP and ARH missiles would be ready for the game

Also if the Ice does go down to 12.3 one of the main enemies the mig-23 just got a massive nerf to its radar basicaly making it almost impossible to use the PD modes if you want to avoid missiles

17 story trees.. lol

F4 Phantom didn't perform well in Vietnam? I think it is the only US plane that I have heard is bad even for its time. I'm surprised Russian bias would put it in top tier.

I bet the devs laughed their ass off releasing an f4 XD

Germany (and of course the UK and Italy) will t probably get a Eurofighter typhoon next update because we already have those cringe missiles in the game which those jets are using

We just gonna forget when the Javelin was added?

This plane and the Tornado Late are easily the worst planes to stock grind at 12.7. They could go down to 12.3 and be perfectly balanced vs. F-15As, SU-27s, and F-16s.

This type of gameplay would be so much better in highly co-ordinated 4 v 4s, its just too many players as usual. The whole going cold and re-engaging to fire off an amraam is cool, but not when you have to account for 12 to 16 players and your team is highly uncoordinated. Might be better in squad sim I guess...

When I see a f4f I just let hem live... They have it rough and i dont need a free kill that bad. Just letting them grind

While I do agree with the sentiment, as far as breaking the everyone rush in on the deck furball meta. This has completely deleted that, yes it is annoying. Also though I do believe this has changed the gameplay loop for the better in the mean time. Games actually last more than 5 min if you can defend properly

I am really not a fan of the ge for war thunder ads that are everywhere now, those are there to sell all your information, and they encourage gaijin to make ge even more required for grinding because of how people can get a good chunk of ge for free.

As someone who just spaded the F16C, the only way to spade top tiers now is turning them into useless bombers

30%? Ive gotten 1 small match total, and its not like I havent been playing

As someone who has to fight f4-fs in my su-22, they are super annoying to play against.

Smaller matches 30% of the time? My dude, where are you pulling this stat out from? I have the switch on and haven’t seen a smaller match the entire time

Just like how Rank eight tanks got a stock apfsds round. Rank eight jets should not have to research chaff.

12.3 harriers and j8f already have 2-4 ARH's so it really wouldnt make any difference, yeah playing 11.3 is pretty horrible at the moment with the viggen with f15's f16's and now ARH carriers are pretty common sight. im just gonna play 13.0 in sim now that i got gripen c and f15c grinded and not gonna go below that before they bump up ARH carriers.

Just move this thing to BR11.7, then everything will be okay

that thing should have been released withe the f14 back then

Seek I can’t find my previous comment to reply to it but I tried what you said about using the touch pad on controller and still doesn’t work, it shows the HMD interface and follows the cursor, but in free look, the cursor doesn’t move, so it just points forward. If you have to get your cursor (mouse aim mode) on the enemy, making your plane move (even just a bit) kinda defeats the point of having HMD in the first place

Id just make it so each plane starts with 2 aamrams default just like how they start you with 2 9ms or 9ls then unlock them fully. Pretty simple cut and dry solution

Team deathmatch 16v16 is not fun at this point. It’s just a dice roll most matches. Need 8v8 EC maps with multiple objectives and airfields.

I will just comment about the end about the modern jet combat and how it works. In fact it's quite opposite, people who wants these 16v16 and fox three missiles at same time wouldn't have interest into modern jet combat as it's most of time BVR only and usually without shooting down a plane. If you want modern jet combat just put them in 4v4 and death from enemy or by crashing = no rewards no matter what you do (to prevent just yolo firing all missiles and getting shot down). You would force teams into teamplay and strategic play which is how you use modern jets. Not just 16v16 mess in middle of the map. Would it be realistic? Yes. Would it be boring? Also yes but that is just how air to air combat works with fox one and fox three missiles. And how would you win the 4v4 if people would avoid shooting down enemy planes? Just do more objectives than enemy team in the 25 minutes timer.

Nice vid, also am I the only that actually prefers the current meta over the IRCCM furballs bs we had before? I haven't gone through the pain of a full stock grind so I might hate myself for that comment later

if you want to play a good f4 there are some many options like kurnass 2000 and f4ej kai

the russians only have 96 but those are large caliber so maybe a slight difference

i also think the F18 radar is underperforming

He gets 5 kill games every game man

1. 16v16 should be 8v8 or 6v6 2. On the f4f ice it should have aim 120 stock. 3. I wish gajin would make different changes for other game modes instead of just copy pasting code, sim is fine rb is not. The whole thing about sim is simulation and the multi pathing right now is pretty sim ish. But but when gajin makes a rb update to missles and multipathing sim has to relearn everything. Not to mention the tip br bracket for sim some days is 11.7 to 13.0!

i play dcs for quiet a long time now and bvr engagements and all the tactics involved in it esspecially with other people with communication is alot of fun... in war thunder not so much it feels kind of bad imo its lame since so much of the flying is gone you have in dcs... idk... i thougt would have more fun with the fox 3 missiles but getting my jets decked out or god forbid picking one without it is a direct ride into tilt...

Ok so how is it worse than FA.2 or F3 Late?

Wait till you try the Sea Harrier, now that is a piece of shit. Less manouverable than the earlier Harrier GR1/3 and AV8A/C.

bro forgot about the sea harrier 2 💀

I hate the fact that Gaijin balances on individual things a vehicle might have rather than the overall performance of the vehicle. For example, the F-4 in the video is only at its BR due to AMRAAMS. The XM800T is at 7.7 because of the stabilizer and APDS. There are several more vehicles that get balanced based on one or two things and it really makes the game at certain tiers worse. BR Decompression can help, but Gaijin really needs to rethink how the balance vehicles.

Relevent to the video, it really stinks that the F4S ICE is this way... and it sucks because I literally ground to Germany top tier air the last few months :(. It also sucks because these planes are incredibly hard to balance... kinda like the Maus tank. Also, is anyone else experiencing freezes in battle after the update, or is it just me? I haven't been able to play. First, because I'm on Mac, it wouldn't let me log in, until they fixed that... now, it just freezes mid-battle in air RB... can't figure out what's causing it.

People keep crying for more and more modern stuff but they don't want to admit it's not fun to get clapped by a weapon from 20+ km away. Modern combat is designed to be unfair. It's not going to make for good gameplay.

Those AIM9-LI's look kinda freaking godly

Stop playing Modern Jets if you don't like Missiles, WVR or BVR simple as. It's not Broken it's Working as Intended and that's what people need to come to grips with when thinking about Modern Fox 3 jet combat.

If you think the F4F ice is the worst top tier then ya have no idea about the tornado F3 Late

Multipath is not the real problem tbh, it's the dumb ass team deathmatch really

Gimme 6vs6 more research and lions added to the low amount of players were all good, or or hear me out 6vs6 ranked for 4th gen jets and above

They should just put it at 12.3

I liked the video before watching it because regarding the title I 115% agree..

I haven’t seen a single person besides cc’s Unironically grind and play this.