@moabite sounds it absolutely did. The first one was by common consent a missed opportunity. TWOK was, eventually, well written, beautifully plotted and had all the best elements of Star Trek TOS. It had a discipline, a tension, the best interplay between the three leads, and a seemingly invincible villain. It didn’t have a lot of flab, and apart from the attempt to humanise the main characters it stuck to its strengths. It was literally TOS on the big screen.
@moabite sounds If there's ever an award for MVP-Most Valuable Picture-for the movie most important to the future and success of its franchise, Wrath of Khan wins it going away. If Wrath of Khan had been bad, or even just average, there never would have been the sequels, or The Next Generation, or Deep Space Nine, or the other sequel series, or any of the Next Gen movies, or probably even any of the current NuTrek series. The JJTrek movies probably still get made, since the original series was so popular decades ago and Hollywood likes nothing better than a blatant nostalgia grab based on a popular older property, but even that "obligatory Hollywood remake" would have been radically different without the basis of what came out since Wrath of Khan.
I just took my wife to the 40th anniversary showing of this last night. We had both seen it on DVD and I had seen it as a child in the theater. She was too young to have seen it when it first released. It was and remains the definitive Star Trek experience.
Strong villains are the hallmark of successful Sci-fi films. I'm so glad Montalbán came on board to make this the best Star Trek movie of all time. The movie that saved the franchise.
I actually think it’s more like this: 1. First Contact 2. The Undiscovered Country 3. The Wrath of Khan I have TUC at 2 because, not only is it a great movie to me, but it shows the series of movies after taking a terrible downturn with The Final Frontier and then coming back to finish with a bang. They returned for 6 with a compelling story, great music, and fucking Sulu as an efficient Captain❤️
Abrams do so good. The movie was okay. Not good as Star Trek the motion picture, wrath of khan all the way up to Star Trek VI undiscovered country. Those were good. Star Trek Chris Pine was confusing. But now we got political identity crisis and political agenda being pushed on current movies. 😞😔. For a disabled guy who’s seeing it on the big screen and on DVDs. It’s a sad state of affairs. In the 1980s. They did this. By making other movies without touching originals like Star Trek or Star Wars. Hope things improve when Trump is defeated in November. Now theres hate on the internet and political correctness going on in the entertainment industry.
He didn't do anything to this movie. This movie still exists. He made a new movie that borrowed some beats from this, but it's completely different. The new Trek movies, love em or hate em, have to be more complex and layered than the old films. It's just how modern filmmaking is. It's what they felt the audience wanted. Into Darkness was not a "remake" of Wrath of Khan. At all. Nor was it pretending to be.
I’m a massive Trekkie, particularly TOS and TNG (I’m 33, grew up with it) and I recommended this film to my friends recently, on the notion that they were not Star Trek fans as such, they all said how much they thoroughly enjoyed it. To me it’s one of the best films ever made.
I frequently recommend Star Trek II : The Wrath of Khan to any friends that like science-fiction *or* big screen movies in general. There is enough action to even keep some of the younger fans entertained, lol. Nice comment, thanks. ☺
What is it with this movie.....it’s almost 40 years old and I’ve rewatched it so many time and I still get goosebumps and edge of my seat reactions to its thrilling moments. It’s a valuable lesson that a brilliant story full of heart, humour and intelligence, doesn’t need a gigantic cgi budget to be one of the greatest sci-fi movies ever made.
I'm glad I was able to witness seeing this film in the theater. It was quite a departure from the first one in the budget but instead we got our friends back and their chemistry that made the characters work . Also James Horner's magnificent score as the two Starships battle with each other was awesome . Though Khan and Kirk never met face to face , the film was like a submarine film and a battle of wits .And the way Kirk uses his wits to overcome the highly intelligent Khan who is solely bent on vengeance to kill Kirk as he uses every bit of his experience to beat his enemy though its Spock who uses Human empathy to save the Enterprise in the end . Then the small things as Kirk age , the glasses him finding out he had a son makes the story . Its too bad they never made a film that established McCoy's background other than he mercy killed his own father in ST5 . This was the best written Trek film .
Great comment. I think a lot of fans can say they had some similar feelings when leaving Star Trek II . James Horner's score was amazing, I bought it right after seeing the movie. Shame Nimoy is no longer with us, after being in so many Star Trek films. We now morn Nichelle Nichols, r. i. p.
I'd definitely say out of all the OG Star Trek films Wrath of Khan, Voyage Home and Undiscovered Country were the very best of the bunch and were just stellar sci-fi\action films in their own right.
I had just been told my marriage was over and I went to see Star Trek, The Wrath of Khan at early afternoon show right out of work. I sat there as Mr. Bennett describes when Spock dies and the whole theater went silent. I just started to weep, and wept some more, so much that my vest and suit jacket were soaked. I was in my chair until a usher asked me if I was alright. I don’t know if I was, the loss of my marriage and now the loss of Mr. Spock. Truly the loss of Mr. Spock was more devastating to me than my marriage. I have not felt that bad over a movie since the train wreck call Avengers Infinity War. I was so angered that they killed the icon of my youth Mr. Spock. I am sure I missed the nuances of the ending and Spock’s move to give his soul to McCoy because I was already over the edge with the marriage news. So I missed that clue and walked out into the night just leaving the funeral of my friend, Mr. Spock. I do know that as Mr. Bennett described, the whole crowd left in a hush and the true Trek people were mortally injured at the loss of our hero.
Βασίλειος Φίλιπποu - As mentioned, it is often behind the scenes... acting and/or character fatigue, compensation negotiation, personal animus... that kills or otherwise removes an actor.
You wept so much your vest and suit jacket were soaked? Soaked! Maybe you're a squirter. You're not Rick MansBerger. Change your name to Wimp TransTofu.
Sad. I saw "ST: Wrath of Khan" at my college's student centre theatre one weekend in '84 (they were playing both 1&2). I cried when Scotty played the bagpipes for Spock since a member in the Scottish Rite Oriental Band played them for my dad's funeral that Feb. so I was crying for my dad and Spock. Now, when I see repeats of the film, I cry for Leonard, Jimmy, and De too.
I met Leonard Nimoy in Trukee California. We had a short conversation in Safeway. I told him my father and I bonded over his character Spock. My father and I didn’t have Baseball we had Star Trek. Leonard asks me about my father and we talked about books. I’m grateful that it was a slow line before the time of debit cards.
This is great. Star Trek 2 the Wraith of Khan, was the Empire Strikes Back, of the trekkie movies, Spock dying, "the needs of the many," really very beautiful.
This movie was a masterpiece for fans especially.. I was so mad and hurt when I left the theater due to spock's death.. I did not pick up that he would be resurrected instead thought they gave fans a special place where spock would always exist but not be in future movies.. Glad they fooled me lol.. Also, sorry to have lost Leonard in RL..
I always got the impression that Nimoy just had to "kill" Spock on paper, if you will, for him to come to terms with the character and finally accept and embrace it. The script death and even filming was a catharsis that allowed him to settle any grievances he had with his attachment to the character. Perhaps that is why he had a change of heart about Spock.
In College I wrote an essay comparing different philosophical approaches to the "Trolley Problem." When I got to Utilitarianism I actually used Spock's quote "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" as a way of quickly summarizing the basics of Utilitarianism. Needless to say it was the only essay I ever got a 100% mark on.
What a bummer. I just found out Harve died. Strangely it was on Feb. 25, 2015, just two days before Nimoy. R.I.P. Harve Bennett. May the wind always be at your back.
@@speedracer1945 I believe that was more around the time Star Trek VI was being pushed and he wanted to do a Starfleet Academy prequel story versus another film with the TOS crew. He was overridden and he left the franchise because of it. His wish was more or less granted with the 2009 Star Trek film though.
Bones is my favorite character out of all the original cast. Deforest Kelley his acting is flawless the way he can switch from angry to happy sad funny sympathetic to even cranky we all know Deforest nailed cranky every single time on camera Lol he's a master. It's 2022 now he left us years ago and I miss him very very much still to this day without ever even knowing the man I feel somewhat like I lost a family member btw i of course have all the films on Blu-ray and I also have the movie posters framed up on my walls I don't collect figures model ships etc etc but I do need to get my hands on a autographed Deforest Kelly piece or 2 and display it definitely 💯 👍 👍 one last thing if U guys get a chance to be in Seattle Washington do yourself a favor and go to the Science Fiction museum and check out the Star Trek museum that they have there it is awesome ! ! they have just about every important piece's from Trek that U could think of
No Mr Bennett you did do a noble thing!!! This film like Empire Strikes back, is the film the entire franchise stands on!!! Like bedrock, there are no additional Star Trek films, no TNG or DS9. This film is a classic and whenever life is kicking my ass, I watch this film and it gives me hope again!!!
Leonard Nimoy says in this interview that Star Trek 2 is probably going to be the last Star Trek movie so killing his character off would be a good thing I'm glad to say he was wrong on both
I still to this day I cannot watch the end of the that movie without a tear coming to my eye. It is that powerful of an ending. You care so much for these characters it's like loosing a family member.
Probably still the best of the Star Trek movies. Like someone posted earlier, made by people who took the time to understand Gene Roddenberry's dream and take it to the next level.
@@cruman87 How is his comment close minded? He's absolutely right. JJ has gone on record stating he was not a Star Trek fan but liked Star Wars and with his films it's obvious he tried to turn Trek into Star Wars. A perfect example of his lack of creativity is Into Darkness aka a ripoff of Wrath of Khan in so many ways it's not even funny.
alucard624 Being closed minded cause apparently you and others think that there is only ONE way to make Star Trek television and movies and that is the old way. I guess it never occurred to you that the Star Trek brand and it’s relevance and popularity was pretty much on life support until JJ breathed new life into it with 2009 Star Trek. How did he do it? He did it by trying new things, shaking stuff up. Sure “Into Darkness” had a few too strong callback moments with Khan, but its not like it’s an exact carbon copy of Wrath Of Khan. It disappoints me as a Trek fan growing up in the 90s to see this unwarranted disgust toward one individual.
@@SJHFoto That's what makes it so funny. Shatner is very aware of his reputation, so he's totally playing off that... WHICH goes to how good an actor he actually is.
"Wrath of Kahn" let them correct the time elapsed since TOS. In TMP it was supposed to only be a year or so since the five year mission. TMP was the PhaseII TV project of 1972 resurrected from a scrap pile. Shatner still trying to be a 39 year old man. He sorta pulled it off in 1979, but the others couldn't. By 1982 he had full on hit mid age look so they had to embrace it. Meyers, a young man knew that the cast was old. So the B plot was On Golden Galaxy. So to rectify it the audience has to assume ten years had passed between TOS and TMP, despite what they said in TMP.
I see it more as maybe a year or more after their last episode of TOS, and then the ship goes into spacedock for refit, which takes 3 years. And then after the V'GER incident the ship is properly recommissioned and has another 5 year mission. At the end of that, she is relegated as a training vessel, being pretty much the oldest of her class as most of the original 12 ships had been lost and replaced with newer ships. Give maybe a year or two of that before Kirk returns to her on his inspection tour. That's where 10 years fall. Not between TOS and TMP, but between TOS and WoK.
Enterprise goes home after Turnabout Intruder and is decom'd. Same time, Kirk is promoted to Admiral and takes over as Chief of Starfleet Operations. A year later, Starfleet approves a redesign/refit of Enterprise and Kirk recommends Willard Decker for the Captain's chair. 18 months after that, refit Enterprise is built, but V'GER shows up and Kirk rushes back to the chair. And that's all just from the convo Kirk has with Scotty in the shuttlepod.
See this is why Star Trek 2 worked so well. The characters who knew the their roles so well had input on the script and story idea. Opposed to say the Last Jedi lol
Such a classic, powerful film that has everything. As great as Empire Strikes Back was, at this particular moment in time, Star Trek was bigger than Star Wars with this film.
Even though the ending was changed and wasn't to everyone's liking, particularly the director, I am thankful we had Horner's alternative score to close the picture because I think it is so beautifully done where we see the planet and the coffin. Always enjoyed this documentary.
Nicholas Meyer - can he be declared as the one who saved Star Trek? He mostly wrote II, IV, and VI which were regarded as the best of the films at the time (and some still think those were the best). I personally liked II and VI: The Voyage Home. They were very old by that final film, but it was well done.
Upon first seeing it in '82, when Spock said to McCoy, "REMEMBER", I honestly thought he was just saying goodbye-- And when I saw the replay of the scene in Search For Spock, I thought it felt very contrived, even though I was only about 17--
Harve Bennett was a class act. If Roddenberry was the Great Bird of the galaxy, then Bennett was the Falcon flying high. Imagine if you got to work with this guy! He even seemed to fight back tears here.
I really like Shatner, but he often seems petty& diva-like. Montalban & all others in the cast were flawless in this Star Trek series, in this fan's opinion.
Both Nicholas Meyer and JJ Abrams were two directors given the opportunity to make a Star Trek film without knowing anything about the franchise, the difference is: Meyer actually bothered to watch the fucking source material
and respect it... while Abrams continued to boast about how he wasnt a fan and was gonna make it into something else entirely because what he really wanted was to get his hands on mucking up Star Wars.
Ahhh, back when films relied on stellar acting, killer writing, a powerful story and expert direction and cinematography. Nowadays blockbusters are mostly CGI, random fight sequences and explosions after every scene lol. They don't make a lot of classics like this anymore, very few movies now are on this level story and acting wise.
I could watch the ending to this Captain's Log part of the BTS for Star Trek 2 a thousand times. There's so much pathos, and so many brilliant people working and fighting for their vision, but willing to compromise when appropriate. A great story with a cliffhangar. The fact that we have to trade Spock's life for the Enterprise 1701 makes the ending bittersweet, but Star Trek IV carries on well. [I still want my ship back, though]
I have nothing against Robin. She did what she could, probably as best as she could. It's hard to be hired on the spot as since Kirstie's agent wanted more money and the studio was perhaps trying to save money, they hired Robin who was more used to do soap operas. She really wasn't into sci-fi. Now, she does real estate. (Can't knock that; so do.my brother and sister-in-law). I just believe Kirstie's Saavik was more believable then (Maybe not now perhaps). For some reason, I thought that maybe the Romulan Cdr. had given her own DNA to the one baby who was abandoned on Hellguard. The father didn't necessarily have to even be Spock, but on Genesis, she became quite defensive about an issue she could only guess about since she wouldn't allow McCoy to do an antigen scan.
I saw this when it came out in the theater, as I did its predecessor, Star Trek: The Motion Picture. The latter was good in that we got to see the characters again, but it was a disappointment. Cranky Kirk, no humor, long, boring. I literally fell asleep for a few minutes watching it due to its leisurely pace. We walked out of the theater and said, where were the Star Trek people in this production? This wasn't Star Trek! It really was bad. So I had no pre-conceived notions for Khan, but within a few minutes one just knew this movie was on track. I remember when we left the movie this time I said to my friend Dan, "you know what happened? Someone said, based on the outcome of the previous film, that "we had better get our act together and do a REAL Star Trek movie!" and they did. Bennett looked at the old series. He got it. He super binged and let it sink in. He accepted what "it" was. He put the foundation in that allowed Montalban to do something rare--resurrect a character from years before, keep him consistent with appropriate changes that were in line with what the character had been through. Truly marvelous stuff. The best Trek movie, simple as that.
I cried when I watched this. I still miss Leonard sooooo much! When I got the news he'd passed, I cried nonstop for a week. No matter what people may think of him, I will mourn when we lose Shatner, too. I still weep for De Kelley. He was my favorite. It's so hard to get older, and face your mortality. And all we're left with are these inbred idiots who think they're all that, and are constantly trying to shove their ill informed political beliefs down our throats. They couldn't act their way out of a paper bag! I miss Jimmy Doohan terribly, too. He was a WWII hero who survived D-Day. We've lost too many good people. Requiescet in pace, De, Jimmy, Leonard, Gene, Mark, Majel and June.
@@rays7437 Lol, that's pretty funny! I loved that show so much. We warched it all the time when I was growung up. Tim Conway's death was pretty hard to take. We are losing so many of the good ones, and we're being stuck with a bunch of inbred, selfish morons who couldn't act their way out of a paper bag!
I remember this as the first movie that made me cry when a I was little. Took a decade or two to admit that 'cuz, 'yeah, I cried when Spock died' was still a little to turbo geek to ever dare confess then. Yet, here we are now, still singing this flick's praises; a work of fantastical fiction. The next best Star Trek memory? Billy Shatner giving me my diploma when I graduated from my program. Sitting in the front row of the auditorium, across from The Captain himself on stage, and as everyone else came up to get theirs, all the while, my buddy Diego, Shatner, and myself kept trading looks as we rated the gals that were walking onto stage for the diplomas. Kirk, you saucy bastich. Sweetheart of a man; but still had that cavalier mucho machismo to slyly rate the chicks with us young bucks with only but the most subtle looks and fraternal, coy smiles. Gotta love ya Billy boy.
What is very interesting...and I only learned this recently...Nicholas Meyer also directed the very frightening movie, 'The Day After' (1983)...a very serious movie about a hypothetical nuclear holocaust. To this day...'The Day After' remains one of the most watched movies made for television ever...if memory serves...
In all the various runs of Star Trek through both series and film, for me it peaked at Wrath of Khan, and never managed to get that good again. Everything was great. Everything. We had an aging Kirk struggling to come to terms with retirement, and reconnecting with a family that he had frankly sacrificed for his career. He was forced to weigh up his decisions and had a chance to self-reflect. In his moment of doubt, when Kirk is wrestling with his past, a part of it comes back to murder him played masterfully by Montalban. Khan is not a villain doing evil for evil's sake. Here he has 'something' of a legitimate grievance against Kirk. We understand the rage that's driving him to get revenge for his dead wife, although we recognise a lot of that hate is misplaced, and Khan is equally, if not more to blame for it than Kirk. But, that emotion is important because despite Khan's intellect, his rationality is impeded by that anger, that hatred for Kirk, and that is human and relatable. Here is a character who has in his possession copies of both Moby Dick and Paradise Lost, both of which are relevant to his character, for indeed Khan very much believes that it is better to reign in Hell than serve in Heaven, and Kirk's Enterprise is very much the white whale that he is utterly bent on destroying. Nestled in there is the ethical quandary of Genesis. Sure, it could revive dead worlds, but it could also be used to eradicate all life on a planet in moments, so there was that topic to wrestle with and how the best intentions of scientists can be warped into terrible purpose by the military minded. Then of course we had, for my money, the best Starship duel ever put on screen in terms of visuals, the way Starships are used, the chess game between Kirk and Khan, but also, because from the moment the duel begins, the countdown to Kirk's Kobayashi Maru begins and it looms threateningly over the rest of the movie. Kirk's great talent is that he can produce victory out of nothing, or as Bones would later put it, turn death into a fighting chance to live. It's something he does time and time again to dodge death, but death does not like to be cheated. At first it seems like Kirk will manage it. His knowledge of Starships lets him counter Khan, save the Enterprise and level the field, though in a warning of things to come, at some cost. His ship is crippled, and there is a cost in the life of some crew members, notably Scotty's nephew. Later he manages to beat Khan by a combination of Starship command experience and manipulating Khan's psychological state into making a critical tactical error. And this is where most films would like to end, on a good note with a jubilant score to take us to credits. Instead, Khan activates Genesis whilst quoting Melville, choosing to trade his life for one last chance to stab at the great white beast in mutually assured destruction. Genesis and the Reliant are moments from detonation at a range which will destroy the Enterprise and everyone on board. The only options are to retreat out of range, or deactivate Genesis. Unfortunately, Genesis cannot be stopped once it has begun, and Enterprise isn't fast enough to escape. There's nothing Kirk can do to make it faster. He's out of options, and there's no way he can win. Kirk's much delayed Kobayashi Maru has finally arrived, and with it, a price to pay. The cost of Kirk's Kobayashi Maru is not his life, but the life of his best friend in not only the saddest scene in Star Trek, but one of the saddest in movies. The moment Kirk's voice cracks at Spock's funeral is absolutely heart-breaking and a testament to Shatner's ability to act when given good direction and material. This is a well crafted movie about facing the inevitability of death, accepting mistakes, and about recognising that decisions come with a cost that at some point, must be paid. Despite on the surface it being a film about Starships and exciting combat, it's a film about the human experience, and a damn good one at that.
I forgot how fun it was to see this at the time. How it exceeded my expectations, especially after the first one, which I liked. But this was I think every trekkies moment... "No one will ever make fun of us again. Wrath of Khan is the most entertaining movie of the year!" And it was true. The next movie sucked, but #4 was great again. Good times! But looking back this was most satisfied I've ever been walking out of a Star Trek movie, but I have to say to some of the Abrams haters here... "JJ's first movie is truly great and gives this Khan a run for its money, and the first 10 minutes before the credits is the best intro/10 minutes in Trek history.
The death and funeral of Commander Spock was, by far, the best moment in the 50+ year franchise. I enjoyed Nimoy in the later chapters, but I also wish they had left the character dead as they originally thought this was the finale. The best moments in TOS were Kirk watching Edith die, Kirk watching the Romulan Commander die, and Commodore Dekker lamenting his crew. The show was about confident men and women solving impossible problems. The joy of the show was the cast chemistry and the three way flippant humor men actually do IRL. However the best character moments is when a cocky space cowboy gets a friend or respected adversary killed because of some stupid mistake or because it was fated. Same is true in the other series of the franchise. The lead character is best when he or she just looks at death and is humbled. That's where Shakespearean actors shine. Star Trek needs Shakespearean trained actors.
@@nickb9718 From what I read Trek was dead in the water after TMP. Ironic that Meyer and Bennett had no idea about trek but were responsible for saving it. Don't think TMP was bad - just overlong.
I hadn't seen "Wrath of Khan" - not when it came out and not for many years after. All I knew about it was that my mother o.b.m. had seen it and HATED it. "They killed Spock!" was all she could say about it.
my fav. ricardo and shatner never shared screen time ironically. ricardo had limited time to film due to the fact he was doing fantasy island. there was supposed to be a fight between kirk and khan that never happened.
God how I miss the classic Star trek. Really. Even the Star Trek community, you go on some of the message boards these days and you are met with militant hostility towards anyone that has critical of the new Trek series. I look back on the 80s and 90s of Star Trek fandom and how COMMUNAL it was. Sure, there were disagreements. Kirk vs Picard, etc... But we were a very strong and dedicated fan base. We loved our show, and the show loved us. The spirit of the original six Trek films is unparcelled, too. Wrath of Khan is one of those early 80s films that is simply lightning in a bottle. Look at that era in which it came out. hit after hit. Blade Runner, Goonies, The Thing, ET, Aliens, Indiana Jones, Terminator... The list goes on, but Trek was riding a wave of seemingly endless great movies that came out between the start and middle of the 1980s. When people talk about how great the 80s were, the pop culture is one aspect that is almost second to none compared to the 70s and 90s. People think it's just nostalgia talking, but if you really go back and look at the decades and the way things played out, in terms of pop culture there was never another decade that hit quite as hard as the 1980s... And Star Trek III was a trend setter for the entire Star Trek series.
Hay "Markis5150", You are absolutely right about Shatner being offended. When ever he talks about that topic of Nimoy and the Director leaving him out... he make me laugh my ASS off! I swear to God it is so funny how much that bothers him! Have you ever seen the "Captains Summit" with Spock, Kirk, Riker and Picard, Man oh man will you get kick out of how worked up he gets when asking Nimoy to finally tell him the "truth" that it was a set-up all along that Nimoy had planned the "remember" whisper as a contract negotiation trick! I'm so glad someone else gets a thrill out of it as well!
It doesn't bother him. William Shatner was trolling his good friend Leonard Nimoy knowing he'd see it, and fooled a lot of people in the process, including you. Now THAT's acting. ;-)
Love shatner h is a hero of mine, but he is such a narcissist he instantly suggested that nimoy was hidden behind frosted glass when Spock died..hilarious
Erik Leung is it though, there are plenty of cast members who report very real and unsarcastic spoilt, self important and mean spirited behaviours. He has form
One thing Shatner has about him I've liked is that he has a horse farm in Ky.(Versailles? I have friends who live there.) Where he has had hypnotherapy for special needs kids. Hope it's still true. I used to work with special needs kids-I have a LD too-and have friends with disabilities too, some of whom graduated from college as I did.
Was I the only one that picked up on a huge hole in the plot. Khan didn't meet Chekov. He wasn't in the first series that "Space Seed" was part of. Worm can now opened.
