Absolutely loved this film. I never understood how it was viewed as some sort of justification for school shooters or right wing politics or other weird stuff like that. I really loved how it portrayed class struggle and how Arthur inadvertently becomes a symbol of the uprising by accident and rolls with it, partly because it benefits his ego, and partly because he doesn't understand what's actually going on outside of his own perspective. A perspective that never gets fixed due to failing systems not giving him the help he needs. It portrays this feedback loop of neglect really well in my opinion.
It was never any of that political bullshit. If anything, it was left wing political messaging like "eat the rich" or whatever, but the powers that had already decided that they needed to politicize Joker had made up their minds as to why it was #problematic and that was that.
@@KnuckleHunkybuck Uhm... the movie is definitely very political. That's partly why I really like it. I just don't agree its leanings are right wing as it's intentionally calling attention to class struggle and austerity politics.
@@buriedstpatrick2294 To be perfectly clear, I agree. It is political, but it was never _that_ political bullshit, meaning it wasn't a bunch of MAGA propaganda or whatever, but CNN decided that it was, so it was. By the time the movie actually came out, the facts didn't matter as much as the story that had been woven around them, as is usually the case.
@@KnuckleHunkybuck Oh gotcha. I don't watch American news media so I'm not completely familiar with the context there other than some online discourse.
So true. He never sets out to be a political figure mainly because he can't see past his own suffering. He displays a certain type of narcissism, an almost childlike type, where he does what he does for validation and views himself as a victim. And don't get me wrong, in a lot of ways he IS a victim, but that doesn't justify the things he does by any stretch.
"The worst thing about having a mental illness is that people expect you to act like you don't." For that sentence alone this movie is one of the greatest works of art i've ever seen..
I'm not gonna lie I read the dance in the bathroom as a calming act. When I'm alone if my anxiety gets too intense I start into the most serene act I can think of, slow dance-like movements very similar to those in the bathroom dance scene. I think the feeling of power is just one aspect of that moment.
It was at that moment he lost most of him self and became more the joker ! BTW that Dance on the bathroom was unscripted ! Jaquelin just improv that ! he was purpose to walk in wash his facepaint of leave the gun there and walk out but he made the dance insted hinting that Artur is leaving him and the joker persona is setting him free ! Even the scene where he walk of after telling who gave him the gun ! he walk back and says ! ohh i forgot to check out slamming the checkout machine was totaly unscripted ! The actor is by far my favorit of all time ! He went and lost a ton of weight since one on set said "would it be nice if joker was kinda skinny?" he said yep and took on the challenge ! he lived on a apples and smokes till he lost all that weight !
Hey, old comment. Since I made this comment the majority of my neighbors went from electing a man who fought to make sure that gay people died alone at the height of the AIDS epidemic to electing a woman who called trans kids "a spoonful of poop in a batch of cookies" (cis kids being the cookies), and has taken all access to medical care I needed after being bribed by industry, much like the plot of Joker actually. It seems like you were trying to suggest that my opinion is alarming. How exactly do you anticipate people reacting to you taking everything from them?
@@BlueButtonFlyhey, even older comment. From my understanding this initial response you received usually means the person agrees with you or thinks that what you said is important
I really love the point of him dancing after killing the 3 guys in the subway being an expression of him feeling empowered, as opposed to disgusted, because that dancing is always an expression of him regaining an emotional sense of control (also done later right before him going on stage before Murray, when his jokes at his expense make him feel uneasy). An often unstated part of killing another human being, apart from the shock and horror during the first time one does so, is in that exact sense of giving someone power/control over another life through death that nothing else can. Alongside the negative feelings, that part has been stated to feel incredibly intoxicating and is likely a huge component of what makes serial killers not stop with just their first. But unlike with serial killers, who usually kill primarily for the sake of aggrandizing their own ego with that power, with Arthur Fleck this sense of power through killing is what gives him a quick way to control and use his mental illness, rather than let it use him. In this way his world can become something more than just laughing helplessly out of control, and getting beaten up (as usual) in the subway...it can also lead to him regaining control through that killing and through distancing himself from it, as he would later say in this video: "I used to think that my life was a tragedy. Now I realize that it was a comedy." While this does give him more control over himself than he had ever known before in his life in a much quicker way than any amount of therapy probably would, it's also what leads to him completely distancing himself from both, his own pain as well as consequently all human empathy he could feel towards others. It's probably why I find it a scarily believable way for how a 'supervillian' like the Joker could come about - someone who felt that the only way he could continue existing in this world is to, internally, pervert personal tragedy into comedy and then share that madness with the rest of the world, which is what you see later in the comics.
The dance was unscripted ! he was surpose to wash his face paint of throw the gun in the trash and walk away! It was the actors interpretation of losing was little was left of Arthur and becoming more the personification of the joker he felt released of that pain ! That scene was totaly unscripted ! Many more scenes are unscripted! The smashing of the checkout machine was to ! Jaquelin takes this role to the extremes ! one on set said would it be nice if the joker was skinny? he said yep and took on the challenge to lose all the weight with a apple a day and tons of smokes ! The actor is known to live and breathe his roles to the fullest ! thats why he is my favorit actor of all times ! you dont see Jaquelin you see the role he plays thats what so damn good about him !
This is also why you see him stop on his medication ! he feels at home in the joker persona ! he was told his laugh was a condition ! you hear him say " you told me my laugh was a condition there was something wrong with me! Well there isn't ! to his mother when he is about to kill her ! his whole upbringing was a lie ! his "mother" has lied to him because she is the one thats sick and he was adopted ! his mother was found guilty of mistreating him ! He shows it early on that he got the taste of freedom by accepting the joker persona in that dance ! he tasted what it was like to become free and thats nail in the coffin finding out he was adopted just put forth the joker persona even more =)
Very interesting discussion to be had for sure. I’m not really sold on there being a sequel for this film being made as I think the film itself is good as a stand-alone, but perhaps if done right we could see more things with Arthur that could perhaps explain his condition even better than what the first film has shown us. I’m glad you’ve made this video, keep up the great work!
i would love an origin story of batman that is like joker. A reveal that batman is also delusional and finds comfort in his actions with his code of “i don’t kill” to justify his actions
Hope you all enjoy! This was a fun video to make. Not sure if I prefer this one or my Heath Ledger/Dark Knight video...let me know! ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-nerMoc-51WM.html
is this a re-release? I am positive you had a video on this a week or so ago. Maybe I'm confusing this with "Analyzing Evil" at The Vile Eye channel. For the record, I enjoyed your video
I really enjoy all your videos and just have to make a note that the director in different articles has stated that he didn’t kill his neighbor. I initially was surprised when you said he had in the video because I assumed he hadn’t and left her alone. I just wanted to point this part out about the litmus test: “He doesn’t kill her, definitively,” Phillips said. “As the filmmaker and the writer I am saying he doesn’t kill her.” He further explains that the scene is a “litmus test” for the audience to ask themselves questions about Arthur. “We like the idea that it’s almost like a litmus test for the audience to say, ‘How crazy is he?’ Most people that I’ve spoken to think he didn’t kill her because they understand the idea that he only kills people that did him wrong. She had nothing to do with it. Most people understood that, even as a villain, he was living by a certain code.” He added, “Of course he didn’t kill this woman down the hall.”
I think that he didn't also might have to do with the difference in how he sees her mothering her child. She is very loving. She acts the way he wished his mum had been with him.
This was a fun analysis. I'm not sure I can imagine TW constructing an entire adoption proceeding. But I can imagine that he had a relationship with Arthur's mom and then covered it up. That was too painful for her, so she retreated into delusion. A continuing relationship with him in which they share a son.
I can see TW constructing an "adoption", purely because no one will let a single woman of meager means adopt a child. And that's not even counting any background checks into her mental state. If she's known to be his biological mom, there will always be questions about who's the father. But if TW really was the father and didn't want any kerfuffle, he could easily have forged documents drawn up to show Arthur was adopted by her instead of born to her. Given her mental state, even if she tells the truth, no one will believe her. Then again, Arthur's an unreliable narrator, so it's hard to know what's true and false anyway. Him believing she's not his "real" mom would make it easier for him to justify murdering her.
@@lunacouer I think there's a simple answer to that, in the movie she has a boyfriend, they both adopted Arthur, he starts abusing Arthur and she (perhaps starting to show signs of being mentally ill) does nothing to stop it, her boyfriend is arrested and goes to prison and she goes to a mental institution. I don't understand why people love overthink everything, especially if the movie already give the answers, like, my theory may even be flawed, but it makes more sense than the "covered it up" conspiracy theory.
It legitimately hurts to hear you echo Mmy own ideas about Arthur's psyche. I cannot even begin to explain how much I resonated with this character. I literally avoided the movie, because the claims that it might rouse "incels" to violence wasn't entirely false; I used to be a crazy "incel" as a teenager, and this movie would've fucked Mmy head right up! That's another story though, but the Erotomania(delusions about being in a relationship) and the: "devouring mother" are things I've had to overcome. They were unbelievably hard to get through, but through perseverance and self-awareness, I have claimed Mmy personhood.
I have never judged this film as one glorifying violence or making excuses for it. Rather, I see it as a demonstration of how monsters make excuses, and how making excuses is a form of self-deception which can take you to a very evil place. Arthur is the protagonist because people need to see what Arthur does, and learn to not do those things. We're all victims, we've all been lied to, humiliated, belittled, neglected, rejected. Watch out for self-pity, for excuse-making, for resentment, for retribution disguised as "justice". Those are the urges we all have, and they're poisonous if we give ourselves to them. They're the ingredients which turn us from Jekyll to Hyde. This film is a tragedy, but it was brilliantly acted, and quite well written.
Yes but the only difference is you understood that.... many people dont or never will ... thats like being angry at someone for not being able to speak your language but they were never taught that language to begin with ..
@@mambak9 Then this film is a mirror. Less attentive people who aren't reflective wouldn't understand the film, but they are also the ones more likely to fall into the same traps as Arthur. Those who are reflective and attentive would understand the message, but would also be more alert to such behavoral traps. Perhaps rather than a mirror, the film detects "those who could become jokers" by being those who judge too quickly and without depth. If someone says the film is just glorifying violence, then they are someone to be concerned about.
The story of Arthur is well told, I find it has causality - a person can only be what all these events make out of him - Arthur as I see it can be nobody else but the person he turned out to be in the end - Arthur is not what he made out of himself Arthur is what society made out of him - Society always seems to be surprised when something goes wrong - bad people are not bad they are made bad - and who makes them bad? Maybe society should be prepared to ask itself why are there so many bad people in our society waiting to go off.
That's what makes the "murders" so hilarious, because it's actually suicide. Lol "please don't kill me!" Reply: "haha! I'm not killing you, your commiting suicide, I'm just the killing instrument you chose! Hahaha! But, you don't get to hear the punchline, because you are the punchline, BANG! BANG! Hee hee ha ha hoo"
your emasculation point was PHENOMENAL. as someone who really connects with this film (i don’t know how to say that in a less worrying way but i promise i’m ok lol) but is a woman, i greatly appreciate that perspective as i’ve only previously gotten to pointing out the devouring mother and emotional suppression “just put on a happy face” bits. this film never ceases to amaze me, honestly. it’s so brilliantly crafted, and gives the viewer a sort-of yard stick for their own morality, what they deem as excusable vs not, etc. LOVED your video (especially as a fellow house rabbit parent!
I think that this movie works very well on a class level. The Wall Street guys are particularly poignant. Because 2 out of 3 of them are almost definitely acts of self defense. Horrible horrible people killed by a horrible horrible person. But because of their status in society, Their deaths got the limelight. If it was the other way round, Arthur’s death would quickly be forgotten.
@@Anon1gh3really have to disagree, saying that is so reductive of how people "work", and "think". There will always be degrees by which people order themselves mentally.
@@Anon1gh3 no, it's not. Just because you can read and think critically doesn't make you correct. You know that people aren't de facto agents of reality with no actual agency. If you just wanted to make a one off line to feel validated or whatever - just say that. The word horrible isn't a fact of reality, it's completely subjective to each person bc of their place in this "reality". To say my disbelief is irrelevant is fine, but I'm not wrong. You are.
I never thought that the film was glorifying villainy. I always thought that this was a film about the failures of society to take care of its most vulnerable, that the desperation that came out of a failing social structure, the loneliness that came with it, the uncertainty, the lack of social and familial support, the widening wealth inequality where the rich drained everything from everyone and left nothing for us to fend for ourselves. I always saw the film as a testament to the self-destructive western ideas of hyper-individualism, and if anything it criticized the glorification of self-aggrandizement, selfishness and self-centered that are so prevalent in western society, especially in America. It's not only Arthur Fleck that suffered from this hyper-individualism that alienated him but also many characters like his idol-turned-enemy, and his own father. I always think the film is criticizing the underlying pyschopathification of society by capitalism that ultimately created the conditions that might spawn someone like the Joker. Perhaps someone like Arthur Fleck is violent and that most people even when pushed to the brink are never violent. But there is a lot to be said about the rampant mental illnesses like depression, stress, BPD, bipolar and a whole host of problems in the west and it cannot be solely attributed to better reporting and diagnosis and more people seeking treatment. It will be dishonest intellectually to not suspect that much of these social ills in the west has to be brought upon by the dominant economic and social system. Capitalism atomized society into disconnected individuals and scorn community, common good and prosperity, common understand and empathy. When the individual is left with itself, the only thing that makes him feels safe is power. It's probably why guns play such a critical role in American culture too. It's probably why the US establishment cannot tolerate the rise of another power and why it can only operate on the ideology of full spectrum domination. I think it is very telling why a lot of westerners first reaction to this film is that it glorified the Joker's villainy, and the aversion to Arthur Flecks frustration and eventual war on the status quo. That aversion I believe is the result of decades of capitalist cultural hegemonic brainwashing and social engineering that even when the obvious themes of the film were staring right in our faces - criticism of social failures brought upon by capitalism and its cultural domination - most westerners' programming is to switch that part off and went straight for the largely irrelevant theme of glorifying violence. Never blame the system, always blame individual. It's not the fault that the billionaires sucked up all the value produced by society, leaving us with barely enough to survive on, it's your fault for not pulling yourself up by your bootstraps. The cult of "personal responsibility". Westerners really are the most propagandized people in the world.
"Projecting innocence isn't exactly the same as projecting goodness." This sentiment is explored in a pretty dark way in the anime Hunter x Hunter through the first protagonist we meet, Gon.
Great video, lots of interesting theory. I feel the paranoid Schizoid (all good/all bad) nature of his perspective is very prominent in his viewpoint and would lend to his severe mental health issues, I don’t like to label people. Ps. If your looking for ideas can you do Encanto, great film around family dynamics and how external pressures can force people into playing out certain roles ect.
Great video. I think the film is a commentay about what happens when you cut funding for a psyiatric funding for the mentally ill. I think most of your analysis is very spot on.
I actually cried during this movie.. which I don't often do. This touched at a very sore spot for me. I once watched a movie/ documentary in psychology of criminals who needed to be on medication going around in circles by the system. They would be broken, go to jail/ prison, get out and have enough medication for only a month and then have to figure it out... and ultimately end up in jail/prison again. It such a heartbreaking circle that some people live in for the rest of their lives. This movie is a strong reminder that our system for mental health is broken. Treatment is for the rich.. and everyone else has to suffer.
Only saw it for the first time recently and honestly, came out conflicted about whether it was exploitative and shaming, or kinda deep. Appreciate your vid, I really enjoy your perspective.
The depth of the potenticy in heightening mental ill health and hallucinations, to despondency in how the world can be viewed through one's mind and its experience of the world were astounding. I've lived the streets and experienced the cruelty of the streets and suffer from mental ill health and hallucinations, this were exceptional in capturing exactly that and Joaquin should receive an Oscar for his understanding in how he delivered it in his brilliance x
I’m pretty sure he is Thomas Wayne’s son. I think the picture his mom has has his initials with a heart maybe, something like that. Been a while could be wrong
I had gotten obsessed with this movie and watched it over and over. I had a feeling that it was somehow special to me. After a few months I had an awakening and my past trauma that I had been blocking out for 40 years came back to me. Turns out I've had complex PTSD that turned my life into a living hell. This is a powerful movie. I had been damaged to the point that I didn't stand a chance for anything but destruction. I am eternally grateful for everyone who had anything to do with the production of this film.
I never really got the stigma about living with ones parents as adults, especially when one is a caregiver. As long as one is contributing there should be no problem with it. I had a friend who inherited his fathers home at the age of 19. A year or so later, his mother lost her job and needed a place to live so she moved into the house with her son. My friend was very down one day after breaking up with his girlfriend. Why would any woman want to be with him, he lived with his mother for goodness sake? But I told him, you don't live with your mother, she lives with you. You provided her a place to live when she was in need. You're not dependent on anyone.
This can happen to anyone when you see a person walking down the street that looks down on their luck just say hello ask how you're feeling and when it's all said and done tell them have a good day because a lot of that just talking to another individual could save them from themselves could make them feel better yeah sure I've been alone all my life been treated like an outcast but the same time I see it as me not being like him that makes me more powerful in a way but again you see a person that's down on his luck that seems that depressed and miserable again say hello how are you how's your day going and when all said and done tell them have a good day you may actually put a real genuine smile on their face
i remember when this came out there was a lot of "be your best you" kind of talk trending and I remember when arthur fleck did his dance and everything that that was the pinacle of his self actualization / true self / best self journey. so proud that he cane out of his shell, overcame those obstacles and was just out there being himself ... but also, let's get him in jail forever now
I'm not really sure about your statement that the mentally ill are not the ones doing violent crimes. I don't know about you dude, but i wouldn't call violent criminals that murders or beats up people "mentally well".
I wouldn't call them "mentally well" either, my point is that most people with mental health issues are survivors of abuse or trauma, that the vast majority aren't committing horrific crimes and there is a danger in aspects of society for people to glorify or romanticise it, often also excusing the behaviour on the basis of mental health. But we can empathize with someone without excusing the behaviour, only people don't always do that
This is one of my favorite movies of recent years I need to give it another watch thank you for doing such a great video on it. Analyzing the therapist scenes would be interesting.
Lot of good points, really well said. I think the child-like elements you mention are one of the biggest reasons why this Joker is a more sympathetic character. He's still a thrill-seeking, violent narcissist obsessed with fame and power, but he seems way less composed than most other Jokers. Most of the time the Joker seems to have a carefully crafted flamboyant persona which he uses to act out his violent, narcissistic impulses, but even when Arthur is on Murray's show it seems like he could break down and cry at any second. Of course, the trauma of his upbringing is another way he seems more sympathetic, since most versions of the Joker are seen in a way less vulnerable state, and any tragic backstories they claim to have are treated as possible lies.
Mostly commenting for the algorithm. While I'm here - I watched Alias Grace on Netflix yesterday. It's a limited 6-part series. I'd love to hear your thoughts on the sessions the therapist has with her to determine if she's faking amnesia and if she should be released (if you ever have time to watch it). It's soooo good. I enjoyed every minute of it. I enjoyed watching this video. The Joker / Batman aren't really storylines I take much interest in, but you cover them so well and make sense out of them in a way they never have for me before. Thanks! :)
I use a wheelchair to get around. There's a joke in the movie, that goes "girls are like parking spaces. You take whatever one works, if you get a handicapped spot, you just hope no-one sees." In a movie about learning to embrace the most marginalised of people (the mentally ill) a joke is made at the expense of the second most marginalised of people (the disabled). The irony... my question is, was this deliberate on the part of the film-makers? On one hand, I did a bit of digging and the person who delivers the line is a stand up comic who actually uses that joke in his set on stage, indicating that the director just told him to use his own material and didn't see an issue with the joke. On the other hand, the only person Arthur shows mercy to is Gary, who is a dwarf. Not because he is disabled and unable to defend himself, but because he was nice to Arthur. Characters make "short" jokes towards Gary, and he reacts with a pained face showing he doesn't enjoy them- meanwhile Arthur laughs along with the jokes. I wonder if the use of the "handicapped" joke, much like the use of Gary as a character, shows that Arthur doesn't notice cruelty when it's levied towards others, only when it's against himself? Anyone else have an opinion about this?
He laughs at things he DOESN'T find funny. That's the whole point, he covers his pain with laughter. The codependent relationship he has with his mother reenforces this when she says "you've always had a nice smile, you were put on this earth to bring people laughter". He feels obligated to find the humor in life, but his life is terrible, there is nothing funny about it. That's why he's always laughing.
@@Claremore-Man I think Arthur does just chuckle along with the other guys to fit in, as he was conditioned to do, certainly. But what I'm wondering is- is the irony deliberate on the part of the writers? Did they try to write him as being oblivious to how he's taking part in the mockery of someone else, as part of his character? Or could it be that the writers THEMSELVES are oblivious to how that joke about women in wheelchairs would be really hurtful and offensive? A lot of people DO think that way. Having a romantic interest in a physically disabled person, especially a disabled woman, is considered really disgusting by some people. If the person has developmental delays then consent might be a question, but the joke was about physically disabled women. As a disabled woman it doesn't feel very nice. I get that not everyone will be attracted to me, that's fine, but to be laughed about and considered disgusting and embarrassing, it's not a good feeling.
What I love so much about this film is that it took the story of the real-world inspiration for the Joker and ran with it. For those who don't know, the Joker was inspired by Gwynplaine, the main character in Victor Hugo's novel "The Man Who Laughs". Like "Joker", "The Man Who Laughs" follows a poor clown who's just trying to care for his loved ones when it's revealed he has a connection to the aristocracy, but the differences in how the two characters react to that same situation is absolutely fascinating. Unlike Arthur's connection, which may or may not be true, Gwynplaine's very much is: He's the son of a rebellious lord and, by orders of James II, was disfigure with a permanent grin as a punishment to his father. Once all this is revealed and Gwynplaine is whisked away to be reinstated to his father's titles, he at first tries to plead with the aristocrats, telling them about all the suffering he's grown up with and witnessed because he believes they genuinely don't know about it. And even after he realizes they do know and just don't give a shit, Gwynplaine is still able to pity them, saying the psychological stunting they grew up with in their palaces might be a worse fate than his physical disfigurement. In contrast, Arthur reacts . . . well, if you're watching this video, I'm sure you've seen the movie. :)
4:52 "Arthur's in fear if this guy gets away he'll tell the police." Could it be "He's a threat, if I don't eliminate him he'll attack me again"? However, the way you went about rationalizing it like a "normal" human rather than as an animal is just more proof why therapy will never help me. Mind you I'm talking about animal as in the physical being. For some reason every psychologist I've met can never wrap their head about this.
For real! After murdering someone you'd probably release tons of adrenaline. No way would a person be able to rationalize and problem solve, at least without extensive military training, which is all about learning to control our animalistic nature, as to not die in war due to fight or flight. Maybe if therapists stopped sugar coating (AKA lying) we'd succeed.
I really love listening to these kinds of breakdowns covering this movie. It should be pointed out that they confirmed that he did not kill his imagined girlfriend in her apartment, though.
Actually, there's a theory out there (and I'm not precisely quoting it) wherein it is Bruce Wayne is the mental patient in Arkham Asylum. Two-face is the orderly who is nice to Bruce when others are around and is vicious to him when they are alone. Poison Ivy is the nurse who keeps injecting him with medication. The Joker is his shrink. Something like that.
yup pretty much lol Arhur/Joker is an unreliable narrator to this whole movie we can't trust a damn thing about his story xD because in essence its just the delusions of a madman who likes to imagine the "what if" scenario an thats why at the end of the movie he's laughing his ass off cause he pulled your leg and tells the shrink "you wouldn't get it."
23:30, when he gets in the fridge, it's more likely the cold and quiet that he's seeking. When I'm feeling at my lowest, I'll seek out the cold because the cold helps stop racing thoughts. I once sat outside in a tshirt and shorts when it was in the single digits Fahrenheit for an entire lunch break at work as I waited for the racing thoughts to end.
Is Penny a Narcissist? Because she always dangling love over Arthur’s head but never let him reached it. Poor Arthur. And love sometimes is, really is, supposed to be unconditional.
This idea that you can't argue that society had a big say in school shootings etc. because not everyone who was bullied becomes a school shooter etc. is frankly ridiculous and a total strawman. No-one is saying that every bullied kid is a potential school shooter - What people are saying is that you can't predict which kid is going to snap or when that snap will happen and that we should think more about how to proactively stop the bullying itself rather than being reactionary after each seemingly inevitable incident as they get more and more common. - The Left likes to concentrate on the guns but that's a band-aid not a solution.......Taking away guns might do more to stop suicides than murders but that's an argument I rarely see made by the Anti-Gun lobby. The Right doesn't help by implicitly condoning bullying as "strengthening" and expecting every bullied kid to somehow magically become stronger because of said bullying - Fighting back is not always an option and bullying doesn't have to be physical in the first place. - The real problem is that children don't have empathy and lack understanding of others' pain but they do know how to inflict pain and will do so happily to anyone they see as weak or different. Concentrating on the more obvious differences only sets aside protected groups - If you bully this kid you're going to get punished for it BUT if you bully that kid over there that's fine! Children need to be taught that bullying is wrong full stop, not just when the victim is a member of a protected group! Teachers need to do more to involve all kids and be taught to identify when one kid is being shunned so that that kid can be helped. Shunning is a badly ignored form of bullying today but it's probably the most prevalent form because there's no explicit act required from anyone, many kids may not even realise they're part of it and all it takes is for one kid to lose their particular friendgroup and not be invited into another. Teachers should know which kids would be willing to step up and help a "shunned kid" if only they realised it was actually happening.....The teacher could then gently let those kids know that another kid was finding it hard to fit in.
I don't remember how I worded it but I don't think that was my point. It's more that people romanticise and glorify the Joker and just say "well it's all society's fault, you can't blame him" in a way where he's almost worshipped as a symbol for our vitriol towards the world's flaws. Ofcourse society plays a role, this isn't a choice of one or the other, everything has tonnes of important factors and you shouldn't overlook any of them. That's pretty much my point: to not glorify killers nor excuse them. They are hurt people who also did horrible things. Both those facts matter
@@mylittlethoughttree " That's pretty much my point: to not glorify killers nor excuse them. They are hurt people who also did horrible things. Both those facts matter" Some people will obviously always try to excuse and glorify killers BUT the problem is that modern society is refusing to accept reasoning as anything other than an excuse. And people are seemingly not allowed to talk about the reasons behind these acts for fear of being accused of excusing these acts. The argument I was arguing against is this modern idea that you cannot point out the background reasons behind one person's descent into madness and evil because of all the other people who those reasons haven't caused a descent into madness and evil. Correlation and Causation are two different things yes BUT some people are more likely to descend into madness and evil than others given certain triggers. Of course not everyone who gets bullied becomes a school shooter but if you look at school shooters the vast majority of them were Bullied. Just as smoking marijuana doesn't guarantee you will become a psychotic terrorist but there is a definite correlation between being a psychotic terrorist and smoking marijuana, a correlation that the mainstream media ignores due to the current push for legalisation of marijuana! - We fully understand that alcohol is both a trigger and an inhibition remover. But banning alcohol has been proven to be more trouble than its worth and the cat is already out of the bag. The argument that alcohol is legal and therefore marijuana should be legal is a stupid argument - It's basically two wrongs make a right! And that cat should not be allowed out of its bag! Then you have the denigration of tobacco by people pushing for marijuana legalisation, to which I have to say "Uh....WHAT!?!" Marijuana may not be as addictive as nicotine but that doesn't mean it's not addictive and also resin is sprinkled on and amongst tobacco when rolled! - But talking about alcohol and tobacco - Not everyone gets addicted, nicotine is much much more addictive than alcohol but still you have some people smoking 5 a day and some people smoking 60 a day. Alcoholism is actually pretty rare considering almost everyone except for teetotallers will drink alcohol on a semi-regular basis. - People are all different, some are vastly more affected by alcohol, cigarettes, marijuna or bullying than others. We need to look at helping those people who are more affected BEFORE the effects go too far. And the answer isn't psychologists and social workers, it's convincing children to be more empathetic and quicker to render help and friendship to those who are left out. It's convincing teenagers to NOT peer pressure other teenagers into smoking/drinking/shoplifting etc. etc. It's convincing adults to be more flexible when someone who is hurting is late for work/gets into an argument at work/cannot come into work due to personal issues etc. And laws to cut down the ability of employers to constantly go through employees that cause people who are hurting to become unemployable because they know that even if they do get a job it's a near certainty they won't manage to keep it long enough to get their lives back on track.
@@franohmsford7548 then we pretty much agree 😂 it is probably my wording, it's one issue that comes from mostly unscripted recordings for my videos, and you're certainly not the only person in the comments to take issue with my point there, so I can't have worded it great. That probably stemmed from all the comments I've had in the past excusing the Joker of everything on other videos and me trying to highlight the other side too, I'd guess that's the case but I don't know, sometimes I say things that aren't properly thought through in my videos, only to regret them later
I Have Tourette Syndrome He Probably Was Acting It Out Our Symbol For Tourettes Is A Child. An Tourettes Has Anxiety Ocd Adhd, PTSD, An A Iceburg Of Other Condition We Are 1% Of Human Population.
Arthur is a perfect exemplar is a VERY unhealthy Enneagram type 4 and his mother a type 9 who completely dissociated (probably a borderline). That is such a sad and plausible scenario IMO😢.
18:27 Tbh, it's really hard for me not to be that sort of mother. Because of my appearance, everyone was afraid of me, men lusted after me, and women were jealous of me. I never had many friends, and by the time I'd had my son, I didn't really have any and I was a single mother. So, letting him leave to do his own thing was- is- hard for me. It's like, "Well, what now?"
So is the joker an "incel?" I'm just confused because I know a lot of people said he was but the way how I view it, is this: were his murders because he couldn't get laid or because he couldn't have romantic relationships? I don't think so. That's not what was shown in the movie. From my understanding, he had enough of society pushing him around, kicking him on the ground and treating him like dirt. He wanted to regain some form of power in his life by "striking back", hence him killing Robert DeNiro's character in the movie. Again, my opinion. What do you guys think? I just wanna know
A clown's role is to display society's shortcomings in a comical way. A violent criminal is moulded partly by society, and he too is displaying society's shortcomings. This movie isn't glorifying the Joker's actions, it is exaggerating the devastating consequences of the actions of society, just like a clown/joker; the whole movie itself is doing the job of a joker. The joker isn't making excuses for his actions, he is just finally letting out his repressed feelings. If what you are saying is true, then one could say you are blaming him for society's neglect of people like him. You see, finger pointing doesn't help anyone.
The US had a summer of rioting and violence over a single violent felon who died of a drug overdose while being arrested, and a another who resisted arrest while violating a TPO, kidnapping his children and attempting to steal his partner's car... he was shot and wounded for having a knife in his hand during his attempts to fight off the police and escape in the vehicle with the children... This was enough to make not just one city, but the whole nation, and even cities in the UK and Canada descend into rioting, property destruction and killings. So a clown killing three bankers.... followed by the shooting of a clown-demonstrator by a police detective in a subway train, and then the killing of Muraaaay on live TV..... sure, why not, sounds like a good reason for a riot in comparison. Some people just want an excuse to watch the world burn, and will sacrifice all reason to get to that point.
To be fair to Arthur, those guys in the subway straight up assaulted him and could've easily killed him. When you gang up on on a man and beat him within an inch of his life, you've not exactly an innocent victims anymore. Granted, he took things too far by chasing down that one guy and shooting him in the back, but still...
I feel like i am slowly becoming the joker. I have bipolar/borderline and severe social anxiety. I am constantly discriminated against for my health issues. I was actually angry at robert de niro in this movie FOR arthur.
The subway scene and scenario was inspired by Bernie Goetz, the “Subway Vigilante”. That actually happened and there was a movement of people behind him calling him a hero before and after he was found and arrested. The riots in the streets may have been dramatized but it was not far from reality. Which makes it even more fascinating especially when you came to find that after Bernie was arrested that he had a lot of racist points of view which blurred the lines even more since it was a group of black teenagers that he shot and people were forced to question themselves. Those who once supported him turned and some unfortunately doubled down. This movie does a lot of things brilliantly and I think playing with this idea is at the core of it all. Great video.
Hard disagree with the segment about his mom. I don’t think she feels guilt at all. Every action she takes, every word she speaks seems to be only in pursuit of getting money and services from other people. She was diagnosed Narcissistic Personality Disorder among other mental illnesses if you read the paper he steals from the mental asylum.
You never shoot in the air with a gun. No warning shots. Also subway scene. First couple rounds were self defense. Transitioned to pre mediated as soon as he decided to chase the last guy down
You think Batman always been good? He has broken the no kill rule ! As i said watch matpat explain the jokers true intent ! its been under your nose ! The joker wanted to make the city great again he took down the mafia and burned all of the money they had where batman could not ! Batmans single focus is to get the joker down! Joker is to make the city great again ! Thomas Wayne was a bad guy and is speculated to work on the side with Bane not yet confirmed =P ! Bruce is the reason why the city keeps getting more bad ! Go watch matpat explain it its really a great video!
Batman has dispatched many men and a few women around a dozen for sure possibly a few dozen I’m not aware of if you’re familiar with his comic books going all the way back to issue 1 you will see he does indeed put brains to sleep on purpose and some premeditated
this was a film that only very damaged men can truly relate to i suppose watching videos like yours truly makes me believe the normal folks simply look down on the film and judge it from a normal pov for instance there was a line in this film that goes The worst part about mental illness is that people expect you to act normal may not be the exact words as i haven't watched the film in a while but thats the concept basically this is a story about a man who has had a shit life sandwich and is just done with trying to stay on societys hinge he isnt trying to fit your ideology of right or wrong bro is just doing as he pleases
Movie was very relatable 😂 main reason I can’t take meds or smoke weed my delusions that help me cope go away and when you use delusions to solve your problems and they go away and you experience true reality will be crippling panic attacks and intense feelings of fight or flight but I would think bipolar and sociopathic or at least ASPD Arthur was weak Joker is strong once he crossed the line he gained power and confidence his first grandiose delusion was after the shooting but once you see reality it’s crippling you have to either delude yourself or destroy the truth
His stance inbetween the audience is not childish, it is child-like. Childish carries the weight of judgement of his actions, while child-like means he looks like a kid, without judgement. You of all people should know the difference.
i never related so much to a character than him and i’ve been saying that since years. Being the Scapegoat and being constantly betrayed kills you over time inside and all that’s left is contempt and anger. And then you snap.
im going through walking on egg shells i get screamed shouted at put down dehumanized that now when i get shouted at i burst out laughing and i even said to myself im becoming like the joker only so much i can take
The Channel "Cinema Therapy" also has a very concise analysis of Arthur, and diagnose him with Bipolar Disorder. This makes sense, with his aggressive mood swings and delusions, and his desire for a male role model.
im not sure if this is ever gonna happen (i mean probably) but it would be very interesting for this Joker to have a Batman to interact with, they left it open for that with Bruce's parents getting killed. I just think this Joker's philosophy is really interesting and I think you would get a much more morally ambiguous batman in this world, its also interesting as they would need a fairly young batman and or an old joker, usually they're roughly the same or at least fairly similar in age and i think it could be really interesting to see a batman who's in like his 20s starting to be batman
Huh? That's been done over and over again. What would actually be interesting is if the Joker inhabited a world without Batman. I got the impression (pretty sure it wasn't my fault) that this was what Joker was going to be, and of course it wasn't.
