Follow: lisleg.com/follow Please help me. Let’s start some sort of movement. Tell me how you feel and if you have any solutions. lisleg.com/blo... #ambientstories
OMG I did not expect this. THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH for your honest comments. I really appreciate them! The video and blog is not super polished, partly to keep the conversation open enough for different angles, partly for not steering the conversation too hard, partly because of naivety. I am currently busy playing some shows, but I will go thru them all and read carefully. Thank you!
Since watching your upload, I’ve worked on a solution - also checked out your website… …be your own platform Will email you once I’ve thought through the problem/solution well enough to make & upload an example to illustrate the solution/s. The problem is a platform problem, and it’s a platform problem nested within a culture-conflict problem… …platform users are ‘of benefit’ to certain groups (eg commercial), but the conflict is in how community-culture conflicts with (say) commercial interests… …musical communities will consume product, which is of benefit, but what’s more useful is a ‘controlled platform experience’. For example, an experience that promotes marketing campaigns over community culture & development. Shut up & consume. The real issue is search ie discovery, which is more about navigation than it is entering search terms into an engine that is programmed to benefit others - it’s like using a map designed to get you lost, but also motivated to do stuff, like: buy this, think that, don’t develop meaningful human connections. Will edit this comment with a relevant link, asap 👍 ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-_7c4ZbBzqK0.htmlsi=PhCboU62g24jagHU
Well, I'm just now getting back into music and have been collecting a few synthesizers/sequencers/ drum machines and recording gear (it's addicting lol) to be able to make some music and stuff. I was thinking about making some videos or something about everything involved but wasn't sure anyone would care to watch... I guess I came across this at the right time huh? Give me a couple weeks to get stuff set up and I'll let you know when I upload something. (Just a heads up I'm just now figuring out how to use some of this stuff so bear with me)
Some ideas come to mind: I’ve seen artists on RU-vid open up Patreon channels where the “good stuff” can be found. I’ve seen artists start on RU-vid and shift the “good stuff” to their new web site with a pay wall. And still other RU-vidrs point their community to a Slack channel to chat it up with fellow community members. Maybe that could help you achieve what you’re speaking of? RU-vid is in business to make money from your videos in whatever way that will make more money for RU-vid, not you. Yet they let you post content for FREE. Finally, I feel the ambient community you speak of is well represented by a lot of talented people across many RU-vid channels. Maybe you could reach out to them to unite into something new on RU-vid that could take advantage of the algorithms. I hope this helps.
I've tried to send you a message, I'm an Autistic Journalist/Podcaster/Musician and I'd like to discuss these themes more with you. I also have a video that you might enjoy :)
Haha yes. But that is of course because I made it as "RU-vid as I could possibly stomach". Like, the thumbnail is insane. Red letters everywhere with words like BROKEN etc. and the title with some words in caps lock etc. It is terrible, but I did it party to prove the point. This is what RU-vid is pushing.
I think it's easy to blame RU-vid, but they have responsibilites. They're running expensive server farms and they need to earn money to keep that tech running and feed their employees, and they also need to make a profit, and all that stuff. So they will shape their algorithm to promote videos that get clicks and then hold the attention span of their viewers. If you take a look at your video feed, there's always stuff you like and there are some "odd one out" videos in there as well. The not-so-easy solution is: take your time, be willing to watch something you started to the end, listen to something that does not immediately appeal to you. This will slowly change the "system" for you. ;-)
Pop media runs RU-vid simple as that, for example Piers Morgan makes a RU-vid channel and in less then 1 years has nearly 3 million subscribers, nobody whos just a normal RU-vidr can never compete with that. Thats the problem with RU-vid, its full of people taking advantage of the algorithm and the ones who do that the best is pop corporations.
@@mr_floydst there certainly is truth to that mr Floyd. What RU-vid has accomplished is a true marvel of engineering and I'm sure that keeping afloat economically is an equal marvel of economic engineering. However, there has been a trend the last 5-10 years among the online giga platforms where the interest and wellness of the users has been down prioritized with regard to the interest in growth at any cost. Maybe this is due to bad management, maybe we're just approaching a hard limit of what the advertizer model can support with regard to the sheer size of these platforms. :)
RU-vid makes perfect sense. It's totally fine that there are ads. They are needed. Think of them like traffic lights or something. They slow down the flow a bit but we still have the infrastructure to continue to drive. Look how successful this guy's video has been. We are all here within a few days of him posting. Why? Because it's relevant to us. I'd say that's not bad considering we are literally all over the globe. Don't focus on the numbers. That shit don't matter. Focus on the quality of the community and remember why it is you are here.
I'm all over the spectrum. From very experimental to techno to house to ambient to melodic synthesizer and I release enough of my stuff on all the streaming platforms as well. It is my outlet, my love, my hobby. I don't care about the results, I do me. Understand your narrative completely. This space here is soiled by synthfluencers and promoters, which is to be expected, unfortunately.
I'm happy this video found me. It's truly spot on. Even when Spotify feeds me with new underground music, often times there is no face or any trace of a human beeing in the artist profile. No Image (or just some blue texture), no bio, no additional info to be found anywhere.
Why would you want to see a photo, seriously? Never having been what's commonly known as "attractive", lol, I for one don't want people to prejudge my music because they saw a photo of me. What's happening of course is that if you're not young and hot, that counts heavily against the art (or whatever endeavor) you make, even if your physical appearance has nothing to do with the thing being created.
@@SongOfItself Hey, I absolutely respect your opinion on that. For me, attractive or not, it's big part of feeling connected to artist. I guess it's human nature to want to know more about the human beeing behind the music and feel the connection. Beeing rather photo-shy myself, I understand your view. However, I disagree that you have to be attractive to make an artist image work in your favour. There are million ways of presenting yourself creatively.
@@SongOfItself beside what the other guy said, a lot of stuff feels AI-generated or made in quick succession as filler or something. It’s very strange.
Well said. The amount of videos that are thrown my way about how to 'score' on RU-vid after just 1 search how to optimize thumbnails these days (and I hate that that's a thing), is insane. What I learned is that it's all bs. Stuff I made and really like gets barely 100-200 views, 'mwah' stuff with a popular tag or something gets an instant 500-1000 views and then dies off instantly. But I do it because I like creating music and videos. Views are of no concern.
this i dig. very good thoughts and values! haha it still hurt my soul when i look at the title and thumbnail of this video, but i just HAD to do it to make a point this time, haha! my regular videos will have less optimized thumbnails and get much less views, but i guess that is ok, hehe! anyways i thought the video was a good way to contribute a little bit with awareness and share with people who often ends up alone with feelings of being screwed by the platforms.
I love that you're bringing this up because the landscape did change drastically and we lost a lot of the accessibility we once had. I've personally never let go of the whole SoundCloud groups era. It still bothers me that they got rid of that, I don't know if you remember.. they had groups on Soundcloud, any one could start a group and the group could be any genre, you could make up your own genre and start a group. Anyone could search the groups for any genre and find all the groups with that tag, and anyone can post in any group, and anyone can comment on any song posted, or directly message anyone. So basically there was this massive opening of the flood gates of anybody being able to find people to listen to, to work with, a place to share their own music where the right people could find it instantly. It was hands down the best space for musicians and music that has ever been created. This is where the entire "SoundCloud era" stems from and why It ended, and this is also why whole new genres were able to pop up around the same time and create an entire musical renaissance. RU-vid was also in a very good sweet spot algorithmicly at the time too, which was another great resource, but SoundCloud groups imo was the main source. Anyway, they scrapped the groups immediately when they switched to a profit model. I'm still bothered tbh. They gave us the ocean then they closed the beach. Sad. We need something like that again.
Who else is exploring the comments and visits the channels, happy having found a source of people whose channels seem to be "stuck in a rut"? I am a producer-granny - synthie-loving - trying to make the most of my DAW :-) simply do this for doing what I love. :-)
Your premise might be wrong. RU-vid's algorithm suggested your video to me, even though I've never watched anything of yours in the past. Your video is just you, telling your story--exactly the kind of video you say you want to hear--and YT served it up to me, even though you only have 680 subscribers and 243 likes (as of now). And I watched it all. What I'm getting at is maybe people just aren't making as many of those types of videos anymore. I appreciate your sentiment though, and I like those kind of videos too.
I agree wholeheartedly with everything you've said and I can even answer why this happens: What we do is pretty niche, so people who just want to listen to ambient music are rare creatures much alike to unicorns. If you only target people like that as an audience, you're intentionally limiting your reach to a tiny fraction of who could be watching your videos and get something out of them. If you make a synth video that features ambient a ton of people are going to watch that because ambient is fairly non-intrusive and everyone always wants new toys. These people might get into your music, start watching your other videos and voila you might have a new fan, even if they never listen to any other ambient. If you put the same music in a video just about process it's going to be much less of an audience, because not everyone wants to make the music for which your techniques are relevant. And if you then focus mainly on the intentions behind your particular music rather than the gear / process, you're going to lose everyone who isn't already a fan of your music. Personally I compromise. I make videos that might focus on a single piece of gear, a plugin, a synth, a DIY pedal I built, but no actual review content because I really dislike recording those kinds of videos - so tedious. Instead I focus on how I use the gear in my music, usually showcasing all the behind the scenes of a single track with all my intentions behind it and leave clear chapter markers so that people can skip ahead if they're not interested in the nitty gritty of random ambient stuff they might not click with. They might find a plugin or a synth they hadn't considered yet for their own music, they might check out my music, they might even subscribe. Either way, they get something out of it, even if they're not into ambient. And in this way the wider reach will make sure the people find my videos who I actually want to reach, people like you who wouldn't be finding it if I hid it behind some cryptic non-searchable title that doesn't make anyone click except people who are into obscure music. To say that I make gear videos just because the gear name ends up in the title is a stretch though because I focus far too much on process for that. I just know how to game the algorithm in my favour so that people actually find my stuff. Gaming the algorithm like that is a bit like a trick we used at school to pass exams without having a clue: What is the primary habitat of a hopping mouse? A hopping mouse has a tail that almost looks like an elephant's trunk, Elephants live in diverse habitats including ... At school we passed with a D because we made the teacher laugh with that nonsense, but the algorithm doesn't even understand how we tricked it and will simply push the video further. As for synth jams / music only content, it's probably the main reason why people stop making process / BTS type content. Synth jams are fairly easy content to make, but they have only a fraction of the reach. 9 or 10 of 10 each time for me. Many who post their music will find the low numbers frustrating and assume that nobody is interested in their music, so why bother talking about the process or the intentions behind it? They don't realise that it's just a matter of the algorithm favouring videos with words in them because it's easier to interpret as data. The YT algorithm has now fancy tools with which it can analyse videos for what's on the screen or music for its genre, but it's so resource heavy that it will only do that for videos that already have a wider reach anyway. We're too niche to be favoured by that sort of fancy stuff. Anyway, I could go on about the algorithm and its intricacies because I actually have an AI related degree - especially why the algorithm likes all sorts of conspiracy nonsense, hokum and controversy - but this is already a wall of text, so I'll spare you 😅But hey, the algorithm isn't all bad, it showed me your video among a diverse selection of camera videos, how to grow your youtube channel in 2024 and ... eye tattoos. I stumbled on a really wild tattoo channel yesterday and now YT is all like, hello there, why don't you do something so stupid that you might lose your eye sight 😱 It should really be called AS for artificial stupidity. Thanks for coming to my Ted talk 😄
Great response! Absolutely the algorithm favours controversy, one of my recent videos used stock footage from a cheesy model shoot, all slow-mo and blargh... it was a deliberate choice as the music evolved into more distorted tones so did the video, ANYWAY, my point (there is one here 🤣) was that I initially got quite a few thumbs downs on the video, which I rarely get, so I thought it would tank... but to date it's been one of the most watched I've created in recent months. So my rather quantum extrapolation of the small data set evidence is that YT loves controversy 😁
I MOSTLY agree with things you are talking about but when you say, "They might find a plugin or a synth they hadn't considered yet for their own music", you lose me. We don't NEED any new plugins, etc, to make our music. That perpetuates the notion and switches the focus to the idea that a piece of gear is needed to accomplish our vision. And that the whole root of problem and vicious circle. The only thing you NEED is creativity and perhaps a little inspiration. And to be a unicorn :)
@@GrootsieTheDog Oh, 100% agree with that sentiment. However, most people tend to think that they can solve their musical problems with more gear when the actual problem tends to sit in front of that gear. New gear is the bandaid for lack of inspiration and creativity. Usually only a temporary fix, so you need more and more to keep going. I always try to get the message across that you don't need much to make interesting music, but most people are thoroughly stuck in the need-new-gear-to-create mindset. I don't mind it when they get their fix on my channel. Whenever they stick around they tend to realise pretty quickly that what I do isn't about the gear.
@@LillySchwartz Well, im a bit confused because you seem to contradict yourself with your statements "They might find a plugin or a synth they hadn't considered yet for their own music" and "New gear is the bandaid for lack of inspiration and creativity. Usually only a temporary fix". So which one is it?
@@GrootsieTheDog Oh there is no contradiction there. Just because I myself try not to use new gear as a bandaid to fix my creative challenges, doesn't mean other people don't do it. You make a video with gear in the title, you're gonna get more views, because musicians are always creatively challenged, it's a simple fact that I see in my RU-vid analytics. And who am I to judge other people's solutions for their creative ruts anyway? Other people might find a new plugin or synth by watching my videos and I don't have any problems with that whatsoever. Everyone wins, I get more views, they get whatever temporary fix they need and maybe it inspires them to make new music. Who cares how they get there, when music comes out at the other end? And even if not, even if they just play around a little and never release anything but constantly buy new gear, I'm not judging that either. Whatever floats their boat, man.
Clicking on the "subscribe" button when you come across someone whose stuff appeals to you is about the only effective means I've found to combat YT's increasingly baffling algorithm choices. That, and ad-blockers. And yes, I've just subscribed.
yeah same. also the extension unhook has some really nice features. but it is really a shame that we have no real good browsing features in this amazing library of videos. thanks for the sub, that warr guitar looks like a lot of fun!
Wow this is profound, you know we live in a “content” oriented social media world and it’s so odd because as a musician I want to make music but I hate making content, this just made me realize something, this is what we need to do as musicians, not be sales people always and instead just be ourselves and show why and how we made what we did, thank you for this video, amazing!
Thank you for bringing this to attention. As an ambient youtuber, I feel really involved. Few months ago I started growing my channel with a more serious commitment and got monetized. Some of my videos are quite successful n terms of views, but I'm still struggling to see a pattern or a clear direction, and how to do something I enjoy but be also appealing. I watched tons of videos on how to improve on youtube. I had to extract maybe 1-5% of all those information that are actually working for me. RU-vid is hard.
I very much agree on the fact that it is really hard to be seen as a musician on RU-vid. I feel a bit at fault as well with focusing on showcasing gear via synth performance videos and selling sounds and samples for the devices alongside my music. But I also have to say that I do not like to talk about what I am doing very much rather than doing it, thats just my personal nature... So I try to put a little bit of story context regarding the composition in the comments section. I also don't think RU-vid is the best place for musicians to be seen in the first place, cause it is a video platform. I wished I would have an answer for that algo problem wich is huge and a major reason why people go down pretty dangerous rabbit holes and get into the conspiracy spiral. I hope when more people get aware of that issue RU-vid will sort it out since I actually like the platforrm a lot🙂.
I feel I’m part of the problem - I’m on an unfamiliar channel looking at what videos they have, and there’s a video on tips on a synth I have, another video might be a hot take on some new gadget… sadly I’m more likely to click those (which have way more views already) than a video titled (to make something up) “sonic horizon” which has a nice thumbnail and looks like it’s a track the person has made. I see a lot of songs people upload, not do so well. So the song has to be a performance made with gear and that’s a lot more effort to film and edit etc. Unsure of the solution.
very spot on points, especially regarding musicians contextualising their own stuff. There's a silly idea floating around that being cryptic or vague about your music is cool, but hearing about intentions, creative thoughts and processes (not gear) is much cooler!!
Yeah, I'm one of the people that really likes that lol, but I never thought about it enough to dissect it. I respect that I might have a rare condition here🙃 I really love listening to music and having the music do 100% of the talking, I love things to be abstract, and I love when a face isn't associated with something. It means that I can project myself as I am in that moment into it and later I might hear it differently I also hate biographies and they're super popular, so I realize I might be the crazy one🤣
I used to do the "white guy with an acoustic guitar" scene in bars and coffee shops. I can confirm, if you have a story to tell about a song before you perform it for people, they connect with that, and it makes the song more memorable for them.
I honestly enjoy less words and less of the person more - there's a reason I love Death Grips so much, for example. Their lyrics aren't only very cryptic and create more of a mental image and setting instead of telling a story, they are also extremely silent about their own music, barely interact with fans and never talk on stage. That way I get to enjoy their music without a trace of parasocial relationship, they put it out there for others and let anyone do as they please with their tracks.
It's very simple. The dreaded algorithm is designed to do one thing: give people more of what they want to watch. The reason song explainer videos don't perform well is because people typically don't watch them. They're among my least successful videos, but those who appreciate them, appreciate them a lot. Example: - 6:40 this isn't "half of RU-vid", this is half of YOUR RU-vid because these are the videos you're engaging with. Half of my RU-vid is people fighting in McDonald's. Half of Rick Beato's RU-vid is people performing Stairway To Heaven. Ambient RU-vid is fine as is. It doesn't need to outperform any other area of the platform. In fact, I kind of like that it exists in a bit of an undisturbed dark corner. Otherwise every video would be filled with forced content and ad reads.
Kristoffer, thank you so much for sharing this. I wholeheartedly agree. I have been working away on my own music and the concept of sharing it within a digital community. There is this almost unspoken feeling that these videos need to somehow feature gear, or explain how I produce a sound, or in some form or another *market* something. This is all the opposite of what I hope to do. I simply want to share with kindred spirits. Such great thoughts here to which I have no answer.
I widely do agree. That said there's many reasons for people not showing too much of their personality on YT any more: I've seen many "smaller" artists entirely leave or just resort to the aforementioned videos because of toxicity and hate they'd experienced in comments on YT or other connected channels. I'm in cinematic/minimal music and wouldn't dare to make personal videos as I'm a trans woman - I tried once and stopped forever.
this reply is so spot on. I was hesitant to create any content because of the Toxicity on this app. But i recently had a desire to just create and hopefully find my tribe. I've even contemplated turning off the comments. But i've heard that could actually do more harm than good, especially with the RU-vid algorithm. I don't know how much truth there is to that. But at the end of the day i decided to bite the bullet. I guess we will see what happens. By the way, i visited your channel. I love your music! "A Mind's Tale" truly stunning.
Yes, toxicity is a major problem - but (oh, today I'm really defending RU-vid, haha) - I think YT, while still having it's fair share of problems here, out of all the social media platforms is a relatively moderate place. One factor that might contribute to what OP observed is that people are slowly learning that posting personal stuff on social media for the whole world to see might be a security problem. 10 years ago or so, we happily shared family moments and our kids' photos on social media, but that has largely stopped (and perhaps rightly so).
If you don't want toxic comments, then you should make an effort to not be a toxic person.. maybe dress and appear like a normal person and save the dress-up for the bedroom where it belongs?
This is a refreshing video on several levels. I agree that there is a lot of stuff pushed on us by the ever-desparate algorithm, and it's super-hard to break free from that. Also, it's comforting to hear that I'm not the only struggling ambient/experimental artist out there. YT makes it tough to get your content into the ears of folks who might actually enjoy it. I wish I had a quick answer, but I will say that there are a number of commenters here with great insights. I'm assuming that they have content created that falls into the class you are speaking of, and I plan on visiting as many of them as I can to find out. Maybe that's a start...
Social media platforms became a disease and the algorithms are not in our favor at all. It is getting harder to find relatable content even trying to filter all the junk and noise. I've been on the same path trying to find that home where I can create and share my artistic work. Now with all this AI stuff, the divide is human vs machine. I would love to continue knowing that the work presented is from human artistic values and with intentional human interaction behind it but we are getting buried and becoming less relevant. IDK where to go from here but thinking back to the days of personal websites is becoming more real. RU-vid recommendations altogether suck, even selecting "don't recommend', the same redundant stuff comes back. I'm not interested in why/how one girl loves backdoor sex and the other one doesn't or how I can turn water into fuel or that quantum computer created powerful photon phaser we can't even see or yet another reverb that does, you guess it, reverb like any other reverb in the reverb market (think we are now in "dual" reverb stage, let's just move to quad-verb already!). 😠😠😠
@@LearnCompositionOnline well, but how may it be executed? Fediverse is quite weak for many tasks, and there are not so much actual communities outside of political and programming scopes. Some years before I was able to search out conventional social networks and find new guys from my area or artistic people around the globe. And we were talking, making pals and whatever. Now the Internet mostly dead as a community is more like a chaotic ocean lead by marks and musks. For me it seems that active people gathering inside private chatrooms but new blood is rare. And it happens in parallel accross different age groups and activities. I don't think that's all over, but we definetly at the border of rethinking how to maintain the sociality of the Web.
I wasn't sure where you going with this at first but yeah, where are the people? I like the idea of #ambientstories and I think I'll make a video here and there to share. Thanks for starting the conversation!
What I've been doing is hitting do not recommend to EVERYTHING. Now I see people like you! But I only have time to watch one video per person or I'll never get to everyone! Thanks for feeling the same way as me!
I appreciate your point of view. Maybe I can add mine: I think it depends. When I listen to ambient music I do not care that much about who created it why. Also I create my own tracks mostly to listen to them while taking a good nap. I don’t have any stories to tell about why I create some ambient tracks. And yes, I listen to almost every audiobook from 70s and 80s Rockstars. It always depends. Maybe more and more creators lost interest in making those behind the stories videos just because they didn’t reach that many people. Anyways: love your video and your point of view. Cheers :)
Same here. It’s one thing if you’re a famous artist, people will want to hear what you have to say (not necessarily a logical jump, and often fraught with risk, but understandable). Me, though, if I can have 10 minutes of someone’s time, I want them to hear the music I've just made.
Part of me is like, surely this is what hashtags were invented for - although you can use them on YT I’m genuinely unsure what function they serve. To me it sounds like you should START a youtube channel that seeks to tell the stories you want to hear. As it is I’m not 100% sure what you’re looking for - it sounds also like a symptom of the fact that literally anyone can make music and post their jams. There is a firehose of stuff, but how will you be able to find it if people aren’t consistent about naming things, tagging things etc.
hi, Alex, recent advice from "people in the know" is that hashtags no longer work and, yeah, hardly anyone finds my stuff, and I have experimented with video titles, thumbnails, what ever and mostly it doesn't work if I mention certain modules then they do garner a bit more interest, but not much cheers, andy
Interesting topic. Having an experimental ambient music channel myself, part of its purpose was for it to be detached from my personality and ego, and to just make something nebulous which could connect people. I've entertained the idea of doing some sort of "face reveal" though and talking about my process etc, and being a professional videographer and editor I think I could make it quite entertaining. Having said that, if I did do this and it started attracting more people, I would probably end up doing more and before you know it would just end becoming a "regular" RU-vidr. Also, I think there's something to be said for an artist who you don't know much about. Being a music fan as well, I think there's something quite intriguing about an artist you know nothing about outside of their music; you kind of build your own mythology around them. Still, maybe that's just my oldskool perspective, and personally I've probably engaged way too much with my audience in an enthusiastic manner to be regarded as mysterious and cool haha..
The algorithm helped me find your video, so something might get through. I don't know if I feel like I'm part of "Ambient RU-vid", but I guess I'm not exactly part of any other particular section either. I have fewer than 100 subscribers, lucky to get anything more than double-digit views, so I'm only a very small voice. I guess I'm just not that interested in doing anything different which might achieve a bigger reach. If the Ambient Gods smile on me, fine; if not? That's fine too. It might just be my neurodivergence, but I'm not sure I'm that interested in artists' stories a lot of the time. For me the music really does speak for itself. Like, I have absolutely no idea about the "story" behind, say, the Aphex Twin song X'Tal. I just listen to it and experience the feelings and sensations which occur to me. That's also true of listening to Beethoven, or northern European indie pop music, or whatever other stuff I like. I have my own emotional reaction to music, but it feels very individual - idiosyncratic, even. Also, for me personally, a lot of the time there isn't a direct 1:1 story or narrative to explain. My music is an attempt to express and explore the living flow of electricity between the organic and the inorganic: the same source between the synapses in my brain and the CV connections on my 'Rack. I like exploring the tension between smooth, warm, diatonic melody and abstract, polyrhythmic, beats - there's rarely a specific prompting "cause for composition" outside of the gestalt experience of just being me. There are rare exceptions, like a recent song I put out which is a tribute to my lovely kitten who died. So then there might be a few words in the description to explain. But otherwise I don't find it easy to be that specific about what may have motivated me to compose an individual piece. Also-also, as the above demonstrates, it turns out I just sound really pretentious when I try and talk about the "story" behind my music more, and I'm not sure that's generally of interest to anyone else! But good video anyway, thanks for sharing your view.
Interesting points! Whenever I make music on RU-vid i figure i'm not very interesting in the context and that i should let the music speak for itself. Next time i'll add a little story around it. Cheers!
I hate to do this unsolicited, but it is directly related to what you’re talking about. For about three years, I have been running a global ambient music program that started out on Twitch, and I eventually moved it to RU-vid, with a humble amount of “success”… at least compared to its presence on Twitch. Recently I had started a long-form conversational podcast targeted towards musicians and composers in the ambient, atmospheric, and neoclassical genres that does exactly the sort of thing you are looking for - the stories behind the music, behind the artist, and even behind all of the life that fuels our creativity and our art. I have been experiencing the same sort of content blockage, people struggling to find my sort of content and inundated with things that aren’t relevant. It is a little frustrating, but I have just had to change my mindset and how I go about promoting my music or stirring up conversations with other artists for the podcast - and that is the slow work of making one on one connections with other artists, just like the old days. In the 90s, when I was making alternative music and playing in bands, it was all distinctly off-line. You had newsletters, mailing lists, flyers, conversations with people face-to-face. You had to literally get your boots on the ground to do any sort of promotional work for your music and to connect with other similar artists for sharing the same stage. While we all had our global aspirations of becoming signed artists and touring the world, the reality was a bit more harshly honest and not hidden behind empty, veiled promises from anyone and everyone in the music industry, specifically people that have something to sell. There is no substitute for one on one connections, building strong relationships with other artists, and with our fans. It isn’t rapid growth or success, it’s not going to make you go viral, and it isn’t going to give you worldwide popularity. But it will give you honest, deep relationships with other human beings, and will give you a much more richly genuine interaction and not just a 🔥in the comments. I would love to have a conversation with you on my podcast about this very thing. If you are open to it, slip into my DM‘s and let’s get something on the books. I want to help be a part of the solution to this problem.
I want to support Chingchagwa with all my heart. You have a wonderful talent full of strange charm that makes your videos look like a dream. I respect and support the excellence of your sensibility. Thank you for watching your video, which was created with passion and a lot of effort. Your video of going through a mysterious algorithm caught my eye, and thanks to it, my heart was filled with beautiful and good energy. Thank you again.thank you for the video.good job. guitar cover song.what do you think about this.thank you for being friends
I think that the issue has multiple layers of complexity. In my own experience, just releasing music with a cover art was not enough. As soon as I started posting jams in forms of videos, my channel started picking up. As many people with artistic inclinations, I suffer from mental health struggles, which creates a dilemma. I don't want to depress the viewer, but that comes at a cost of not being fully transparent about my process. This also ties into the whole algorithm talk. Retention, click through rate, videos being hidden from potential viewers if they don't grab attention straight away. I wouldn't mind seeing more content, where people just sit down and make music. I watch a few channels that do this - just show up and create something. I started doing something similar recently. It's not necessarily "behind the music", but it's also not really a tutorial. It's something in between, where the personality and thought process of the artist comes through in the moment. These channels are not necessarily ambient focused, but it's definitely possible to find the right balance between the "content" and artistry.
@@kasane1337 I meant videos in which I'm performing a sequence made on hardware. Most of the time it's semi-improvised (the sequence is prewritten, the performance is spontaneous). It's definitely not as polished and refined as a fully produced song.
do you remember when sites asked you what are your interest upon subscription? nowadays the feed of every app/platform is stuffed with ads, not real content AND ads, only ads.
I just happened upon your video but I'm glad I did. I completely agree with your point. I feel like youtube will suppress your videos unless you pay to have it promoted. Like you said everyone has become a salesman and now finding videos that are genuinely about the art is almost impossible. I am so glad you brought this up, it's a point that needs to be heard. Cheers! #SynthStories! 🙃
They are on reddit. It is the last "mostly reasonably, but still pretty screwed up" categorized community on the internet. Sometimes they are on Facebook groups, which are like gates to entering the kingdom. Then the rest of us are on Discord or Telegram. RU-vid is just a storage platform now.
Wonderful point! I agree with you that I (most of the time) I really don’t need to buy another synth - as a maker of work, the biggest problem is the artistic practice behind the work. This is exactly what is needed. Many thanks 🙏
I’m not sure if it’s a big problem, but rather a problem with being big in scope. The amount of new videos being made all the time is certainly swallowing the sorts of videos that you were looking for. I’ve made a few tutorials. And I’ve made a few jam videos. But I think what I like making most are production logs which I do not do often enough. Thanks for inspiring me to go make some more. Have a great weekend!
As an someone trying to make music and release it through the internet and youtube, the idea of showing everyone how i made my track is the most boring video i could imagine making. I also really do not think the casual listener cares that much, the people that watch those videos are other artists finding out methods and techniques for themselves. Unless your mega famous then people really care, but no one one cares how you made your non-pop music, only other people making non-pop music do.
That may actually be the point. Some of us are serious about making music but not about becoming commercially successful. We are more into it for the personal fulfillment and the community. I think his point, and I largely agree, is that RU-vid isn't of much use to us anymore as a community building platform.
@@AmbientMusicStudio yeah community is all well and good, they are a dime a dozen on various platforms meant for communication like discord, youtube is a content platform so its not really the place for what your trying to achieve in that case. perrsonally i would like to get gigs and have my music heard somewhat so i find it really frustrating that i always just bump into more artists trying to do the same and supporting each other rather than being able to find a real audience.
Some of the stories are over on Matt Wright Music's channel in a series called "First Synth." So far there have been 32 participants tell their stories --- I hope Matt invites you to join. 🙂
AI crushed a genre that made select artists also 'kinda give up' on YT - A double whammy. I have a network of artists and we share our works on Band Camp and notify each other about our releases privately or in smaller groups on random platforms. I also run a 24/7 'Net Radio Station' and sometimes people tune in to hear new and old 'stuff' to look into on Band Camp or elsewhere. Good video - needed to be said - good questions - a noble quest.
I love your tinfoil background lighting effects. 1/ Algorithm is learning I think. 2/ Try to popularize a hashtag may be easiest as a first choice... ? 3/ I think YT is subject to the same enshittification which has infected FB and Instagram and now TT 4/ Maybe there's something around audience vs community ? ...but the term community is likely to become debased AF because that seems to be what soc med does to language
I'm not a very big synthnerd so maybe that's why that problem hasn't occurred to me that much. Have you heard of *Jameson Nathan Jones* ? He's pretty good and usually gives his videos a huge dose of the human touch (even did a video about how that is getting more important).
Yes, he's refreshingly frank about, well, nearly everything, and he's such an interesting case. He's consciously moved from leading with his music to leading with himself, in part to serve the algorithm, in part to emphasize that human connection is what will increasingly distinguish "real music" from AI schlock. He's serving the machine and fighting it at the same time.
I make electronic experimental music. Now I’m moving into the new age ambient drone side. I have a mailing list in which people suscribe and I send my thoughts, ideas and etc there. Seems to me a more genuine and direct form to connect with the people that actually wants to keep up with you. Which that doesn’t happen anymore on Instagram, youtube and Ive seen it happening now on TikTok too
Hm… first off, thanks for sharing your thoughts! I feel in general this is a misalignment of priorities and preferences. You really enjoy finding out the stories behind music, learning more about the person who made it. That’s great but not everyone is interested in that to the same degree. Some people love simply finding a cool artist who’s art they vibe with and just continue enjoying it and don’t need much more than that. Alternatively, I’ve managed to facilitate a whole community around my channel. I’ve made new friends with my followers, found other professionals who I now work with, and have a community of followers who know me by name that I’m always engaging with on a regular basis. All without posting videos of my face talking about behind the scenes stuff. Those videos can be sweet, but again, that’s a preference that some people have, some people don’t. And I think promoting the idea that the community is “broken” because those types of videos are hard to find is also diminishing the value and hard work that goes into creating a cool artist with art that people desire and love. There’s actually a thriving community of ambient RU-vid channels right now that all know each other and know their followers. Maybe you just haven’t found those channels/communities yet but if you do, we’re here and you’re always welcome :)
Thanks! That is the track Ataraxia from my album Floating Body / Diving Mind. This is actually the live version from this video, but to make it even more "background ambient" I have done a bit of processing and time streching, then at the end it fades into the regular live version: ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-P_1fIrAz9xE.html
Well said dude, so true. I make ambient music (sometimes) for myself and I can't even find my own music channel with my personal account. The algorithm doesn't allow me, it hides small channels like mine. If I can't find it even writing the name of the channel, something is really wrong in this industry. I'm not looking for subscribers or whatever, I just upload in youtube so I can access to my music anywhere but it's so frustrating.
I've heard they put in a change to kill off 'old-growth' type channels. Older channels with modest to low sub counts. The change also favors newer channels so maybe try starting a new channel and see how it does?
100% on everything. I know creative people are out there and doing great stuff. I only find them (like your channel) through diligent/obsessive searching. I wish YT would make it easier. For now the best way I cope is supporting people doing interesting things. It shouldn't so difficult to find what you want without getting cluttered by distractions. In any event I'm happy to have found your work by any means necessary. 😁
Very nice video and good points Kristoffer. And last but not the least, music in the background! Well, as an ambient music creator myself I can see the solution in - communication. What is great about all these social networks and services, is that they connect people. While there is a lot of musicians with a lot of different views on the topic, or workflow, or interests and not everybody would write a short description of their piece, or its inspiration, there is always the option to write to your favourite artist and simply ask, either privately, or in the comment section (it in the best interest of the artist anyway). A lot of musicians, or just fans of music did write to their admired musicians physical letters in the past and asked. And artists answered. They even exchanged letters regularly... We still can communicate, and I personally ask and get in touch with the musicians I follow on YT - and almost all are glad to share their knowledge and opinions, or would talk about their inspiration. So, to sum it up, according to me, it is and still will be about mutual communication. We have all the means at our disposal, so get together and talk 🙂
I am on a very specific journey here on RU-vid, and I have to say with the exception of some random odd suggestions, I usually get exactly what I want to see. I have taken lots (and lots) of time to attempt to "teach" my AI Overlords what it is I am interested in. Example: My Home screen has 100 videos listed; some with Eurorack Modular (what I want), some with Politics (what I don't want). I have never once searched for political garbage here, so I simply say "Not Interested" or "Don't recommend channel" on Politics suggestions. This takes 15 mins on each Home page refresh... but I've been doing it for 3 years. I feel The Algorithm listens, if you tell it what you are here for. At least, this has been my experience.
You say things I have felt for a couple years now. I think it starts with networking, I mean that's the basis of an underground. We need to bear in mind that some of us don't want to 'make it' in the classic sense. We want community and interaction, that we belong and are appreciated. If that is what you mean, I'm in!
Is it Snowgrains playing in the background? Which track is it, love it! Mention it in the info please 🙏🏻 great video, totally agree that finding good videos has become increasingly difficult
Hey! Bulgaria in the house! Thanks for commenting. The track is Ataraxia from my album Floating Body / Diving Mind, but it is the live version that has been heavily processed, and in the ending I am fading back into the regular unprocessed version. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-P_1fIrAz9xE.html
I recently created my channel for posting my audiovisual creations. After months of work I felt smashed it to the ground by the algorithm. I believe in myself but sometimes is really difficult. Thank you for this video, lot of new artists need to watch it
it is very hard for sure! there is so much in the system that tells us to just fall in line, don't think you are worthy and do like the others. but don't listen to the system! you are onto a great start here!! have you ever done visuals / vjing for live performances? i think your visuals would look freaking amazing on a huge backdrop behind a live performing artist! people would trip the f out, in the best way! you would get a huuuge reaction i am sure!
@@KristofferLislegaard Thank you for your reply!!! My plan is definitely getting more involved in live shows whether is my music, my visuals or both. At the moment I am still in a sometimes hard but very rewarding learning path
@@GEN8Live This sounds very good! I hope you at the point where you feel comfortable get some gigs :) My main message is to tell you that whatever reaction, confirmation and feeling of your work having value will be recieved when you show this stuff to people in a live context. So don't feel too discuraged by not enough reactions on RU-vid. Good luck! Enjoy the path! Much love from Norway!
I mean discord servers are pretty great and also maybe we just make a new website specifically for this type of thing and that way you go there and only see these types of things you want to see
A few years ago I was doing a weekly talking show about music production. I met alot of people and had fun, and I am always tempted to try again. We love these vids! I hope to see more, but of course it takes great effort to keep a good youtube suggestions feed.
Maybe a new platform should be made, that isn't infected by algorithms and is leaning towards an older type of website structure, also it could work as a networking site for projects
It's definitely been an issue for years at this point. People that don't want to play by the Algorithm will stay buried except sometimes there's a lucky draw (like you, it seems). I don't think there's much we can do as baseline users on our end besides clicking the three vertical dots and saying "don't recommend channel" or "not interested". Maybe there's plugins and such that exist to help out a bit? I know DeArrow helps for community-driven titles and thumbnails to replace the original ones (avoiding clickbait, basically). RU-vid still does try things, like for a while you would have a lot of very few views videos popping up rather frequently, just that they never had any correlation to what you would be interested in. It was an effort on their part to try to help out I suppose, even if that ended up not doing anything. You can still vestiges of this experiment from time to time when you have a 5 views, 5 seconds video about a random event in Northern India that happened in late April.
Thank you for this video. I had hundreds of videos up but dwindling views. Most got single digit views. So I decided to take everything down except one and give up. Maybe there is hope still for introspective music here?
Damn, you’re right! It happened so gradually I almost didn’t notice the change. I subscribe to some creator channels so I still see those, but the algorithm doesn’t give me like-minded channels, it’s all tutorials, clickbait ads, and and reaction channels. 🤔
I really agree with most of what you said here. Another problem I see is synth youtubers simply bragging about their new gear and showing off their new stuff. I'd rather see tutorials.
You’ve definitely made me rethink a lot of how I approach this whole RU-vid thing. I think a lot of us on the fringes of music try to lean on the mystique of artists we are influenced by who ultimately came from a different era. Also if you aren’t getting a lot of support or feedback on what you’re doing artistically it’s hard to me motivated to explain the why of it all when that might just be the missing piece in connecting it with people.
@@AndrossUT yes and no: social media did bring out more negativity than the positive democratisation I'd expected when I was working on that back then. I'm that old I experienced all those fores and "walled gardens" before web2.0 and beyond - and I don't see that much progress. But YMMV.
You are absolutely right. I'm hoping this will change with the upcoming rise in A.I. music. The process of making the music will be more important than ever if you want to stand out above this ai mess.
I totally agree! Funny thing that this video of yours showed up in my algorythm. You seem to be a very nice person, so I did the hole programm: signed up, left a comment and followed you on Spotify. Floating Body /Diving Mind is spinning right now!
I really appreciated hearing your thoughts about this. It does feel like I’m broadcasting into a void. I do find the vacuum to be somewhat comforting as a space where I don’t have to worry about keeping everything the most interesting. On the flip side, having people who enjoy what I do watching would be nice too. I’m using your thoughts here to change my format a bit to share more of myself 😬 in the video. #ambientstories sounds like a great way to connect the videos that adopt this change in content.
Great video. The algorithm really is cruel; it only will push certain things and gear or tutorial videos just do so much better (at least for my channel). My artistic journey/passion project videos struggle to get more than 1000 views (I still do them), yet posting any gear review is pretty much guaranteed to get 10x as many views. It's a chicken and egg situation: creators are going to keep making the videos that get views, and users are going to keep clicking on videos the algorithm shows them. Complex situation and thanks for bringing it up!
Like and subscribed and I’m now commenting because you’re spot on man. It’s hard to find individuals expressing their art now. I love the synthtuber personalities, they’re great, but I have no desire to pander to the algorithm so I can reach more people. I want to make my weird, wordless, spacey ambient music and share with loved ones and like minded people out there. There’s a way to “fix” this I guess. Engage with all the people doing this more and the people doing other things less.
The algorithm picked this up. I’ll check out your other videos :) So far on my channel the music stuff has mostly been to show a specific feature, or something I was working on that I thought was cool. I’ll try and add more human context to future videos. Like there are valid reasons why in life I get more time with an OP-1 Field, than my ‘proper’ gear. Life does get in the way. And that’s ok. But some discussion around this sort of this could help connect with people for sure.
Thank you for the comments! As you say this is mostly to have some discussion and think about out loud about the thing + get people involved. Also not everyone feels comfortable or interested in putting so much of them self out there, but I think it would be nice if it would be easier to find those that do, so we don't only think about the gear etc. Like the topic you are mentioning here that the simple always-ready tool gets more use than the more complex setup is a pretty interesting thing. Anyways thanks for watching and commenting!
Maybe someone could start an interview channel for artists? This could become a hub for the community, giving us artists somewhere to share our stories and find new artists to listen to too.
even with all its problems ai search might atually be used for some good in this situation! that is a pretty good suggestion. as long as the platforms open up for it to work of course. it does feel a bit weird to fire up the whole big nuclear driven ai data park just to be able to find some ambient musician's tour diary, but i have seen ai been used for worse things, hehe! i will let this topic sink in a bit, but i think as an artist i will follow the #BeYourOwnPlatform movement and use some platforms but have my website + email list as my home base where i tell people to go. free of algorithms you are free to focus on creating great stuff in stead of plenty of stuff taylored for the algorithm. + of course keep connecting with people in real life. as a listener, watcher, reader it is a bit harder.
I participated in a #shorts workshop two years ago with a girl from RU-vid who did like 4-5 shorts PER DAY "my perfect life as a big boobed blonde" with no effort whatsoever and reached 1M views per video. In that same workshop were some LGBT rights people and they asked "how do we succeed with shorts"? and the answer is: you don't. RU-vid is promoting only mainstream nowadays. It doesn't care at all about subscriptions, subs are worthless, it just spams you with more of what you already saw. So the solution is: either continue on RU-vid, but forget about making any money with it, let alone a living. Or go somewhere else where even less people will see you.
You can’t give up there’s still a community out there and you have to be strong and join the community. They’re small ones like the one that Synth Samurai and myself have started.
I make ambient/prog EM that has a narrative about the tracks that will tell a story without lyrics. I'll write a description for the motivation on the sleevenotes of the album and detail a little of how it was recorded, sound sources etc. But I've never had any sense that anyone is interested. They like the music and often they'll tell me what they're about as they've their own perception of the work. So I just make the records and leave the audience to form their own view
Sounds like you aren't curating your algorithm. Don't ever view an off-topic video with a logged in browser. I use four different browsers, three of them logged in, each with a different content focus, and that keeps my content suggestions in line with my interests. A fourth browser (or you can use incognito mode) that isn't logged in is what I use for random stuff. With this strategy and some "don't recommend channel" clicks, I keep everything tidy and get more than enough desirable content in my feeds.
You totally got me with the Synth Jam videos. That's exactly what I do. Even POV. Simply because I think my face is much less interesting than the machines and what I do with them. But what you say makes total sense. Maybe I'll be more daring in the future. TY :)
I've found myself finding indie music left and right on YT's reccomendations, but thats just me. The commonfolk definitely don't have any idea of our side of music though.
its crazy this video found me, over a couple of years, ive learned i love 303s, i still love making music, there is a select few synth youtubers that genuinely want to help and do new things. Out of all the new synths and boxes out there, i havnt heard something new and im tired of seeing people fight over whats right and wrong with synth videos instead of making music.
its good that you point out people need to talk less about new gear/software and more about their ideas and inspirations and how they work that into their music. But since most of the platforms (definitely the free ones) work commercially, they push the lucrative videos up-front making the heart-felt ones more obscure. Best solution would be a non-profit artist foundation that has non-bias at its core
Great video! For me the only way is to trick the algo. That means I use a second browser which is not logged in in my YT Account and which also deletes the cookies and history when beeing closed. Else you can delete a video from your YT history and the algo shouldn't use it anymore to present you similar videos. Same mechanism is also used by Facebook and other social media platforms. Another trick: When you watch accidently some of these chinese street food videos and next time see them in your recommendations then click on the upper right points and select "Not interested". This also helped me cleaning out them.
A site for musicians that anyone can upload to and listen to anyone's music would be cool. Sorta like SoundCloud and RU-vid mixed together but it would be totally free unlike SoundCloud and everyone would get equal exposure ideally.
As a big fan of your music and a synth RU-vidr ( not that I like that title a lot), I think this is an important topic to discuss. Let me start saying that I have been borderline bullied when I was a teenager and excluded from most of the "cool" circles. That upbringing pushed me to create my own platform where I can share my ideas, passion and try to empower others through the use of music. The real struggle happens when things pick up and music become your only source of money. You need to find a good balance in creating content you can monetize and content that sounds like the one you are asking for. Let me tell you that it is really hard. People that love my music are the ones that criticize my demos, people that love my demos don't listen to my music. I believe that we got to a point where we feel entitled to have a say on anything we experience, without even stop a second to figure that behind all the content we consume there is a LOT of work. To me the solution is simple: INTENTIONS. Both on the creator and the consumer sides. As a creator my goal is not to sell you anything, but share what I love and use, as I would do with a friend. As a consumer I have to intentionally pick what to watch, and I feel blessed to have an immense source of knowledge that was not available to me in the '90. The fact that you can decide what to consume is POWERFUL. It is also great that you point this topic out! Much love and respect!
dear federico, thank you so much for your very honest comment! i really appreciate that! and let me start of by saying that some of your videos are amazing examples of you bringing that into your youtube channel, which is exactly what i am longing for on youtube. f.ex. the video where you talked about how you were struggeling in your new studio and how it affected everything is a very good video that made me interested, emotional and invested. i watched it for the second time now after reading your comment! i also really think you understand the problem as you say that it gets hard when money comes into it. we are still figuring these things out and the platforms come and go, and changes all of a sudden. i have no beef with any of the synthfluencers (sorry for the even worse title, hehe), we are all just trying to survive and be part of music. i understand that. and it is nothing new. i am pretty sure i bought my vox amplifier when i was 15 partly because of lenny kravitz was on the adverticement. too bad it was one of those crappy digital ones and not an ac30 or i would have probably still had it, hehe. so even though i also have a lot of thoughts on the bigger capitalist system and problems etc. my focus here is much more that the platforms really hides the "other" videos. so if you only posted emotional, inspiring videos of a human talking about their feelings in the artist journey i might not ever have seen your video. and this bugs me. it bugs me that youtube gives the watchers no agancy to navigate. no filtering to say "today i am shopping or are wondering about what new waveshaping is in the voltage lab 2" and the next day go "today i want to watch no gear videos but only see people talking about their wins and losses on their journey". it bugs me that there is no way to separate and that the only way to "make it" is to let the commercial job blend into the passion and as you say the two groups of people you describe are at a bit of a opposite. "People that love my music are the ones that criticize my demos, people that love my demos don't listen to my music." i think this is really sad and a big problem we are all dealing with in different forms and angles. as you say "you can decide what to consume is POWERFUL" yes, but if i can't find it because i have no tools, then my power is lost. anyways i would say this is much more of a system / platform problem than any individual creator. and i think you are one of the people on the platform who manages to deal with this in the best way possible within the framework. i respect that a lot. let's meet up next time i am in berlin if you want to ❤️
@@KristofferLislegaard would definitely love to meet you mate! I appreciate your reply, and I appreciate your effort in bringing out the problem. Please keep doing the amazing music you do!!! Ciao
Really thought provoking point near the end, I struggle with believing that anyone would be interested in my 'why', but I guess they might... I need to take this up with my therapist 🤣
You can’t expect RU-vid to reduce their ads, and you can’t expect monetized creators from inserting ads. RU-vid shareholders won’t allow that. Also don’t expect RU-vid to archive your bookmarks. It’s just not going to happen. You can shake your fist in the air all you want but that’s also just a waste of your own time. What artists need is viewers who will choose with their after tax dollars to guarantee every content creator is financially compensated by paying for RU-vid Premium. That mostly isn’t going to happen either as far as I can tell, and that’s because most content viewers don’t value their OWN time enough to prevent ads by paying for Premium. If you don’t like RU-vid suggesting videos based on anomalies in your viewing, stop choosing videos to watch. It’s literally their job to show you more videos you might like or videos you might watch. Don’t be surprised when that’s videos a LOT of other people watched. This is how RU-vid works. It’s a search engine that inserts ads in video link response results.
