I've seen a lot of edgy developers over the years, but never one as outwardly hostile to its own players as WG. At least every few months they manage to get a "screw you" in there somehow and this clip had two of them.
@@majkmajers2325 I did the warthunder thing for a few years. Gaijin is "just business" screw you. Wargaming is "I'm going to break into your house and shit in your blender" screw you.
I also think it’s incredibly unrealistic to imagine a sub taking two or three six inch shells, hit a repair button, and be back at 100% effectiveness. Carriers still fought after taking a lot of damage, subs, not so much.
Any penetrating hit to the pressure hull and it no longer could safely dive, lots of Uboats took damage, tried to dive and simply never came back up. Subs don't work in direct combat, simple as.
Missing some context, at the time the top dogs for air were the F86 Sabre and Mig 17. That interview was a year before even the F100 and Mig 19 were added, and the statement was that they would limit armaments (the specific example was mig 21) to their first gen AAMs.
All that is said in the comment thread is correct. Wargaming’s time will come and Justice will be swift enough. Idk how they keeping getting away with things
The development team back in alpha were passionate about the game but WG slowly drove it into the ground as many of the original team is no longer with WG.
I was in a Perth in a Random Battle with THREE subs and a carrier just now. I was the last capital ship. Just subs, destroyers and carriers in the end.
Wait until you see the shenanigans of the SEA server. SEA is always the barometer to where this game is heading. 2 CVs almost every other game, while there's always a CV for 19 out of 20 games. Good luck.
Well I tried sub at coop, gameplay was looking pretty entertaining and engaging so I clicked random battle - queue was for twice that subs than surface vessel. OK I will return to that idea when WG will pull out head from place when they are keeping it now and develop some Wolfpack mode or sth.
uninstalled the game already, it's normal for me to get two CVs and two Subs in one match and at that point it's literally unplayable no matter what class of ship do I play
I had a moment like that yesterday. Brindisi, ranked, dominating a flank but getting pinged and pinged by an invisible enemy. Dodging torps over and over again and then I finally spot him and he tanks SAP shells like they are nothing. Shotguns my full HP ship and I am greeting from the bottom of the ocean. Brindisi doesn't even get plane ASW.
@@tommihommi1 that's worst than a dev who said it. Devs may love the game or may not, but they are an employee. They work for WG, if WG said put sub then they'll put the sub. But communicator? He is a mouth of the company.
The answer is simple. If all types of ships have options to fight each other, good. If you're competing against a ship type that has technology and options that make your ship obsolete... you have nothing to do. Submarines can follow if there is a way to counter them somehow. If it's just a matter of hunting them down when there's only one sub left on the opposing team... we're still the same as we are now. No solutions. With inoperative hydroacoustics there is no way to hunt a submarine. With depth charges that you can only drop when you're on top of the sub... ("Hedgehog" type depth charges are another fiction in this game)... you'll have few favorable outcomes. You must be able to spot the sub, and if the sub submerges, to attack it must be at attack periscope depth, which means VISIBLE, instead of invisible.-
Haha good video editing, this reminds me of when I used to play Wow and I faced the rogues, invisible enemies that deal a lot of damage and can kill you in seconds. It has to be said, the CV's are still the strongest class, but secondly the subs get second place, that advantage of being invisible to the enemy makes them very strong. I have played with submarines, although I can't do much damage in tier VI, I'm a tremendous nuisance to enemies and very difficult to kill
apart from nakhimov that legit don't exists counterplay, there are ships such as halland and most of the cruiser that does around 380 dmg per second, which forces cv to attack once and restart another attack. The reason why they're so strong its because of the game being static almost always and cv with their spotting system fuck everythings up. I play only cv and I do recognize pros and cons of CV. So yeah we can all together complaing against the nakhimov because its the most fucked up thing ever created. (with plenty of videos posted about it) but cvs can also struggle sometimes against multiple ships well equipped for aa defense. I've just replied because hearing the cv being the most broken thing... excluding nakh. i remain sceptic sometimes but i do understand your point whatsoever. Subs are fucking annoying at the very end and i think they are even more nonsense than CV's
get rid of guided torps, add more ships that could drop depth or hedge hog charges, give carriers the ability to send out depth charge planes. and whala you got a class of ship which is only good for against bb's and carriers. a true assassin.
As a sub, you know what danger youre getting into and how many ASW you can expect. And if you stay dark, there will be none. As a surface ship you're either running away from an invisible missile launcher or the invisible missile launcher pops up next to you and oneshots you. Maybe not as god-mighty as CVs but still hilariously unbalanced.
@@cemborembo no because ships USUALLY have 8km range but then out of nowhere some 10km range North Carolina starts slinging ASW planes at you and if one of those bomblets touches your sub directly it’s half your HP. HALF. and lemme tell you it happens more than you think. That invisible missile launcher can be said the same for DDs who can also smoke up and melt you with cannons, the sub is slower than any other ship unless it’s one of 3 then it’s only JUST as fast as a battleship on the surface, can a sub derp up and nuke you? Yes but if he does he’s trading 1-1 because if you’re near your team at all every ASW plane In range will delete him. If you get deleted because you’re isolated I’d argue the sub was just doing his job. It’s a dumb idea to wander off with no support that’s how ships IRL would get torped by a sub, as a sub player you’ll learn quickly the homing torps not only can be dodged easily even on double ping but it gives you away exactly to every ASW plane. Here’s a fun fact any bomblet in 500m of your sun damages it to some degree even if it’s like 2hp it will always cause an oil spill and that telegraphs you for even more abuse. If you fuck up in a sub, you’re toast
@@Klaus_Klavier You haven't understood the principle why subs are broken. They can not be balanced regardless of how much random damage they sometimes eat. If there is a competent sub on your flank you have to run or you die. That's what it's about.
@@cemborembo if there is a competent destoyer on your flank, you will die. The sub is but a destoyer who trades his guns and smoke and flexibility to be able to hide from planes and get close to the enemy without being blasted by radar ships that have ruined any sort of DD play People will always hate on what is new because it forces them to change the meta. I LOVE subs don’t get me wrong but they are feast or famine and no Matter what sub you’re in a smart player will be able to dunk on sub players. Especially cruisers and DDs The only sub that breaks this rule so far is I-56, a personal favorite of mine, it touts nearly twice the HP of other subs but it’s Gun is FAR better than that of other gun equipped subs allowing it to effectively kite and kill would be DDs who think they have an easy meal of a fat and slow sub. Just the other day I half HP DD decided to push me out of the smoke he was in and diving would get me killed he knew where I was and was gonna run me down. So I turned and burned and pointed that 140mm SAP firing 1.5 second reload gun at him and let him EAT shot after shot. He wasn’t even angry after it happened he literally said “damn you threw me by not diving I fully expected you to go under and not fight me like that” it’s unable to hide long and is too slow under periscope depth to justify diving deep to hide. It relies on its high HP, high speed, and crazy torpedo DPM to carry it. Now I love that sub but it also carries with it the most godforsaken unfair Torpedos to ever exist in game….by a longshot. 6 forward torpedo launchers with 30 second reload at each torpedo doing about 14k damage. It’s enough to dev strike just about anything it meets save for tier x battleships who won’t survive much after that. It’s an all or nothing sub and I could see people crying about that but like 2501? Balao? These subs are good at hiding but their DPM is not good and they spend a lot of time giving away their positions with pinging homing torps that people just damage con away or dodge outright.
It's sharp to come in as a new player *exclusively* to grind out and use the submarines (we don't have them over in War Thunder Naval), only to be met with walls and gatekeepers driven by a what seems to be a universally shared negative consensus of the whole concept. I've been playing about a week and have a handful of submarines now. I'm still getting to grips, and I don't have the proper skillset to judge whether they're overpowered yet. But from my short time playing, I definitely die to depth charges far more often than I ever make a kill- especially if they're dropped by aircraft. Post Script: Yes, I know, "don't use whatever tier until you've learned to play properly in the lower tiers". That mantra is pretty widely expressed in War Thunder as well. But still, I grinded up to them- at the very least the game itself reckons I'm good to go at tier 8.
I have been playing for years (actually I quit yesterday, because ranked mode was the only mode without them and now has subs included), and they are absolute aids for balance purposes. Not because they dumpster everything and can single handedly win every encounter, but because they invalidate other classes strengths and mess up intra-class balance. The clearest example of this are with cruisers, especially light cruisers. They have for years been the punching bags of BBs, and get outspotted by DDs. Yet, a highly skilled player can make them work by using clever island positioning to negate their weaknesses (being spotted in the open and promptly getting oneshot by BB fire). However, with a sub near you can't do that. They will spot you, you will have no idea where that spotting is coming from, and many cruisers can't do anything about the sub even if you do know (roughly) where he is, because you have no proper ASW (dropped charges are a cruel joke on cruisers). And since you are sitting still around an island, you are a stationary target and torpedoes will absolutely destroy you. Heck, the one consumable cruisers were given because of their class problem with getting spotted like that and deleted was radar, which is a serious threat to DDs. But that thing doesnt work against subs, because they can just dive and avoid it! So what is the point of playing the cruiser line at that point, unless you want to handicap yourself for the challenge of it? You can get permaspotted, have no tools against it, and playing in the open (which most cruisers are not designed around, unlike BBs) will get you murdered eventually. DDs have a similar problem, even if less affected. They get outspotted by subs, and cannot properly disengage except for blowing their smoke (a long cooldown in most cases), whereas a sub enjoys a large spotting buffer and can disengage at will by submerging. That is extremely unfair to the DD, as the DD cant kill the sub either because hunting one will get you killed in a majority of cases. So if you are in a DD, you just gotta give up the ground and run, because you will lose that fight. So at that point, why play a DD when a sub is just better at DD things? (spotting and capping). THis leaves BBs. THey are the least affected, but also dont have any sub counterplay. Yes they got air ASW, but the indicator is no guarantee of the subs location. And they can't outrun them either. Yes you might be least affected compared to cruisers and DDs, but there's not anything you can meaningfully do against them except hope that the sub captain is new or bad at the game, and hope that he gets hit several times in a row with air based ASW.
@@samuelhakansson6680 Thanks for the well thought-through and broken down response, some valid points made to be sure. Maybe I just suck (which frankly is a very distinct possibility), but I have far more no-kill games in Submarines than I do with any real achievements. When I target Battleships, I deal very little damage. When I target Destroyers, I have to get so close to actually land hits that I have no time to turn and escape before it starts raining depth charges. When I target cruisers, I struggle to keep up with them (as do my torpedoes). I've tried setting up ambushes behind terrain, but that doesn't work for me either: If I stay on the surface, I'm detected the moment an enemy appears out from the corner. If I stay submerged, my batteries run dry before I can do anything and I have to surface. I won't pretend to be an expert, I'm about as new as new can get. But I get the impression Subs are similar to helicopters in War Thunder: Everyone complains about them, but they haven't actually spent any time using them to see just how difficult they really are to use. They only experience them from the receiving end, and have an anecdotal viewpoint made up entirely of the helicopter's/submarine's successes.
And this is why when I as a Legends player say subs could be on Console only to hear other Legends players say that WG said Subs well lever be on Console WG says it won't work with console so WG is not lying, I just think of this, and slap my forehead WG lies all the time.
The fact that you see most of times a sub next to you! and you end up eat a train of torps is so disgusting! Even dds with hydro cant dodge them as most of times thos torps are superfast and of course guided to your ships by only historical accuret things! At the same time dds with hydro cant spot them unless they are at 2.5 km lol! wow 2023 even dds run for their lives from subs! Historical accurete thing OF COURSE
Yeah. Right. But, it is now too late for me in World of Maritime Airplanes. I have about 2 weeks of premium time, and I think that will end it. Why? CVs- excessive damage, especially on DDs CVs- never ending spotting all across the map Hybrids - BBs that the MM treats as BBs, it is possible to get 3 CVs against 1 CV. Yes, it happened. Which team had won by the 12 minute mark. Subs - there is nothing more frustrating than encounter a sub without any way of doing anything about it. Matchmaking- significant games (asia) are now starting with no radar on one side. Which means you can tell the game is going to be over in 5 minutes. What happened to ship being available for the next immediately after they have been destroyed, in the above unbalanced game. Was World of Maritime Airplanes lying? Say it isn't so.
The new british subs are the best thing ever. Torps from german and american subs I could dodge in my cruisers fairly often (unless close range shotgunning or the like occurred), but against magical british torps there is just no point in even trying. And who cares about the "low damage per torp" in comparison? All that means is instead of getting a quick, clean death, you get slowly tortured to death instead. WG must think the whole non-sub playerbase are all masochists. Well done, WG.
@@blazzewolf5458 I'm talking about how subs don't belong in anything BUT sub only game modes. You can be spotted by a Sub it be in your Radar AND Hydro range and still be unspotted. And the CV comment is about that CV's have not been created balanced since they where reintroduced
What about we have a gamemode without subs and CVs but you earn like 10 percent less xp and credits for example. I think that would make everyone happy.
What is the answer to 99 questions out of a hundred? (when it comes to WoWs)..... .... money. WG have to keep selling new ships, subs included. They need money to exist, continue and perhaps grow so there will be an endless stream of new ships of various kinds forever until they figure out another way of getting money. Selling premium time won't be enough so it's new ships all the time. They way WG go about this is of course very frustrating and exploitative at times but they have to 'keep selling shit' to get money. So, new ships of various kinds and even imaginary ships that never existed will be sold to keep it going. No matter how many CC's repeatedly stated that subs will not work within the game format and after years of testing...... they STILL pushed subs on the player base. Now subs are hated as a class as much as the re-worked CV's. WG don't care how many CC's and former CC's, veteran players et al complain they will continuously push more ships, wanted or not onto the player base. I try to go back to WoWS every now and then but it has really gotten silly as a game with 'airstrikes', 'bouncing bombs', silly subs, 'Hybrid' ships (of course the game needed MORE aircraft) etc added to the 'reload boosters', 'speed boosters' etc and all the other magic-button gimmicks. I can't really play it for too long nowadays, a couple of days or so then I just leave it for weeks at a time or even months now as it just just gotten so childish and silly with endless gimmick-ships and nonsense. I do hope that a better alternative to WoWs is developed because the game is becoming increasingly unplayable for many, including myself. 'si vis pacem para bellum'.
It's hilarious documentary considering current game. Nice pick. Subs still can't join clan battles and can't even play scenario maps, I think it is due to both interactions, no real guns to deal with coastal installations and no AA. Best evidence of WG balance is latest CB forbidden list of ships, more than half BBs, except Yamato and Incomparable all those big calibers crushing angled cruisers. But also CVs and some other ships out. of CB. Coop game still bit ends with DDs at top scoreboard, But also bot mirrorring MM of player side in coop not absolute: Player had Iwami, but bots had Delaware hybrid ship to punish my DD at 1st flight raid to reduce my HP by half. Funny. I think WG testing hybrid CV original ability to wipe DDs.
If anyone actually believed the devs when they said "no subs" then they were fools. Submarine controls were part of the options menu right from day 1. It wasn't a case of IF subs would get added, it was WHEN.
You're a fool if you think that. We have plenty of shit we trial or just play around with when developing games. And much of it doesn't get in. If anything, the video's statement of 'subs don't fit in the game' might have come from early tests on the matter. But fools often see the world as they believe and look for the reasons to support it. I think they were indeed fools themselves though. I remember when I still played this game and I'm not blinded by the current mindscape of the devs and players. They really didn't want subs, and the playerbase kept pressuring them to add it, coming up with all kinds of reasoning and concepts why it would be fine, and that a WW2 naval game could not possibly be without subs. Well they got what they wanted. It wasn't what the game needed, that's for sure. That's on the devs.
Freakin hate subs and dont care for fantasy battleships with airports the game just is not the same anymore. But this is just my opinion, maybe I been playing too long.
you are just a noob who can't play anything but sub you could say I hate cvs that's why I play with subs and that's more logical than the bs you just said
Subs ARE NOT overpowered. Subs cCANNOT CARRY an entire team. Subs CAN work as area defense. Subs CAN be easily killed. Subs DO work as a psyop. Subs DO make gameplay suck for surface ships who have very little ability to combat them. A great example being the Thunderer, with 8km aerial ASW, or the Minotaur with no aerial ASW. SUBS COMPLETELY RUIN THE FUNOF SURFACE SHIPS WHEN PLAYED WELL. Not having a counter to subs in certain ships is AWFUL.
