These EVs are depreciating by 4% PER MONTH!!! 

EVs are not the answer, but viable alternatives to driving so people who prefer to drive will enjoy it more than they would when everyone's forced to drive.

That was one heck of a sponsor segue

What happened to our cartrek Christmas this year? 😢

Ed Bolian and Doug Demuro teaming up for market analysis would be extremely cool

This comment needs to be pinned

Give Ed and Doug a show on CNBC. They know and understand the business of cars and speak in terms anyone can understand.

Just here saying I agree.

Agreed! This needs to be a monthly VINwiki!

People hate the high interest rates but cutting ridiculous markup is actually what that is for. good to see it working.

Yes and no, you do realize if people loose large margins the economy will hurt across the board.

You understand car prices are a flag of economic strength and if they crash then the economy can.. think 08 housing crisis

@@tylerbraud5960 08 housing crisis was caused artificially lol

​@@zadianvwhgamingshhhhhh nobody got time for that.

I'm pretty sure they are offering tax credits on certain used EVs in the United States now.

@@RobbaKeef Not at the federal level although there are some state incentives for used EVs depending on the state, your income, and many other factors hidden in the fine print that makes it all very confusing. (Colorado is a good example)

@@clam_baked I double checked and found this "Pre-owned all-electric, plug-in hybrid, and fuel cell electric vehicles purchased on or after January 1, 2023, may be eligible for a federal income tax credit. The credit equals 30% percent of the sale price up to a maximum credit of $4,000." fueleconomy.gov

How about no tax credit and let the free market decide the winners. I don’t want my tax money going to purchase any vehicle.

A gimmick is a gimmick is a gimmick.

Good news! BetterHelp is ready.

You do realize that amount of depreciation is not much above normal. There are not many cars you can buy that will hold their value a year later. 15-25% is the average and over a 5 year period the average value lost from the retail price is 60%. In general cars are not a good investment for most people.

@@m1k3vroom *Laughs in Toyota*

@@HAHA.GoodMeme bz4X? Yes, i'd laugh. This thing is just hilarious.

@@m1k3vroomcars are not a investment.

Any European car is garbage

😫

Yikes

That's not quite accurate about the £40k being his best offer. He did get a "significantly" (he's still looking at an even more significant loss though) better offer shortly after that forty grand offer. That being said however, Lee's financial situation with his Taycan is still every bit at dire as you quite rightly think it is. For anyone who doesn't know what has gone on with Lee's ( The MacMaster) Taycan, Lee and Geoff Buys Cars did a valuation on Lee's Taycan through WeBuyAnyCar in the U.K, who are notorious for offering way, way below market value (then knocking thousands more off high enders for every single minor defect) and they did indeed get a valuation of about £40k. Lee took it to a Porsche main dealer not long afterwards though, hoping to be able to get rid and into a Cayman. I haven't seen an update vid from him yet on when he's going to sign on the dotted line, but even the Porka main dealer was confident that they could significantly improve on WBAC's offer. Lee's Taycan is a high miler (relatively speaking), so it was below the market average, Porsche are never going to give you the best price you could get if you shopped around, or sold privately either and I can't remember the exact offer he got to part-ex the Taycan in for the Cayman without going back and watching the video again (I think it was either bang on 48k, or a mid-low low 50something), but even with the improved offer, it still wasn't enough to cover the extra he needed at the time to buy the Cayman. I got the impression he had made his mind up though, but just needed to find some more cash from somewhere to cover the extra the Cayman would be to drive it away. Either way, that is a massive depreciation on the Taycan over just two years. Seventy grand! And that's in proper money too. I'm not sure what the exchange rate on the dollar is at the moment, but that can't be far off a hundred grand USD, for the rest of the world to understand just how far down on its arse the U.K eleccy car market is now. As if that wasn't a big enough kick in the bollocks for him though, in the video his current monthly payments on the Taycan came to light too... and they were north of £1200 PCM. 1200 quid a MONTH! On a 2 year old car that's already scoused you for 70 grand before you even list it and then is still only worth around 50k now, has cost you just shy of 30k in repayments in just two years and in the best possible kind of hypothetical scenario now open to Lee if he sells today, at absolute best will see him walk away with about twenty grand in his pocket. I mean, on a £120k car, that's already pretty devastating. The actuality of it in the real world though, it's going to be a much, much bigger financial leathering for him. I don't know what sort of deal, if any, he got on interest payments when he got that Taycan, but let's say that even if he got a 0% interest deal over a typical three year term (which I guarantee it won't have been, even with the near zero percentage base rate a couple of years ago) and even if his Taycan doesn't depreciate any further (which I guarantee it will) and even in the hypothetical dreamland of a zero sum down payment (which, with a Porsche main dealer, I guarantee it wasn't), when he comes to part-ex it on another car at the end of three years, he's likely to see a net £0 return on that Taycan. In reality, on top of what he has already paid on a car that he'll see zero return on, he'll be lucky if he's not out of pocket to the tune of an extra 20-30 grand by then with further depreciation and another 12 month of finance repayments with real world interest rates, minimum. Even by cutting his losses and ditching the Taycan now, if there's an early repayment clause for the outstanding term in the finance agreement... and there's a pretty good chance there will be and an even better chance that with the way that the Taycan is depreciating like a rock and Porsche already can't shift the Taycans they have on the lots now, they will hold him to it... he's still going to lose his arse on that car. If he has put a down payment on the car, which in the real world, I assume he has, and with it being Porsche, I don't imagine it would have been a never ending "£99 upfront.This weekend only!" offer either, I wouldn't be surprised if there's at least another twenty grand or so out of his own pocket that's just gone up in smoke there too. For all the difference it'd make to Lee's return on that car, even if he sells it today and even with the best finance agreement the world has ever known, it might as well have had a £150k+ screen price when he 'bought' it... on a two year old car that's probably worth less than £50k today and falling like a stone every extra day that he keeps it for. Right now, from the financial point of view from Lee's perspective, that two year old, £120 grand car is literally worthless, if not already a net loss. Given that it lunches tyres at three hundred quid a corner every 8 months and it's depreciating faster than you could ever hope to even recoup through saved fuel costs over the couple of years he's had it too, it's not even got the "Ah, but it's cheaper to run" argument on its side. Honestly, two new rears at £600 a pop every 8 months?! That's about how much I'd spend in peccy in 8 months, my car wouldn't need two new boots at the end too and my household eleccy bill wouldn't have increased any through charging the bloody thing every night either, as would neither my insurance premium, which are now also on the rise for E.V's here. In real world, day to day running cost terms, it is literally cheaper to run my also two year old petrol C-Class (that came out service just last month, for £ree for the first three years on the deal I got, with still 4.5 mil on the original tyres). It cost more than half of what Lee's Taycan cost to buy, it costs less to run on a day to day basis and if I sold today too, where as Lee's best case scenario is that he'd make £0 return, my worst case is that I'd walk away with about thirty grand in my pocket, or about twenty six to twenty seven on a part-ex. I appreciate that there's a world of difference between a Porsche and a mid range C-Class, but that's not in any way a validation for the size of the bollock that Lee dropped and the subsequent financial kicking that he's inevitably going to get after he 'paid' £120k for something that still had all the practicality issues and severely lacking support infrastructure that E.V's for half the price also encountered even then, issues that were already starting to dampen people's enthusiasm for them two years ago. Man, he's had his pants pulled down and been royally spanked there!

@@bigal3055 I have no idea why you think anybody’s reading this novel about some random dude and his Porsche EV’s depreciation

@kabob21 If 7 or 8 paragraphs is too much for you, you wouldn't be able to handle a novel.

it may be the same for real estate; a developer would rather have empty units, write off the loss than face the real market value.

JayEmm on Cars released a good video about a week ago on Porsche depreciation as well (UK-centric).

@@deanchur I saw that. On Tuesday Bloomberg had an article about the collapse of the luxury watch (Rolex, Patek) resale market. I am sure there will still be a luxury product market, just not so many people willing to go into debt for those goods.

Or really poorly, just depends on the perspective!

I buy my land rovers with a CPO. Apparently I’m not doing that well in life yet. But hey, I have a Range Rover 🤷🏻‍♂️ Btw. What they say is true.

@@FriendlieGhostwhat do they say? That they’re terribly unreliable and expensive to fix? 😂

Huge flex tbh if you maintain or restore it to new

No, you are just giving up on life.

ya unfortunately electric isnt really suited to hauling. basically, gas engines are so inefficient to begin with, that when you push them hard they dont really lose much. you might go from getting 25mpg to 20. but electric cars are REALLY efficient, so when you ask more of it, you pay for it proportionally.

Get the cybertruck

But didn't you know? Didn't you look into it before you dropped 100k? I knew they would be crap. Wish I still had my 6.2 limited.

yeah, they will be good one day. Maybe another 10 years in battery tech

@@lincolnmarklt They’re not crap. Just well-suited for certain activity like commuting and not so for others.

Yup thats the truth. Battery pack degrade, charging hassles/infrastructure/etc. Fire hazards. No thanks. We just dont want an EV. Thats why they have to mandate them. If this werent the truth there would be no mandates, it would just happen. And more efficiently.

Sorry to break it to ya bud, but she doesn’t forget to charge her phone.

You’re wrong about the “technology growing by leaps and bounds” though. It’s not and the people who believe these falsehoods are similar to those 1940s Germans awaiting the “secret super weapon” that would save their asses. 😂

Just go get there one there great fun mate

Wait until you see the price for electricity at the private ones that aren't free!! 🤣 I literally skipped recharging my PHEV at a museum because it was cheaper to run on gasoline than recharge the battery... and this was when gas was $4/gal!

At least 40% depreciation in the first 3 months? Sounds like a tax problem, cars dont lose 40% value in 90 days

Seems to be a german problem. Even by tax accounting standards, ICE vehicles lose only 20% a year.

@@francoisfranceschini7947 cars did lose 40% in 3 months and it has nothing to do with taxes you should differentiate the depreciation in market value of a car and depreciation when applied on your P&L statement. Two different things. Company vehicles are depreciated in 6 to 8 years, depending on type of vehicle for tax purposes.

@@raghuveer8137, cars did lose 40% in 3 months and it has nothing to do with taxes you should differentiate the depreciation in market value of a car and depreciation when applied on your P&L statement. Two different things. Company vehicles are depreciated in 6 to 8 years, depending on type of vehicle for tax purposes.

Transport fuel demand is falling off a cliff. I think these facts are related

Range is like 50 miles in the winter lol

​@@sasukesuite1for real! The battery range of my PHEV gets cut in half during the winter.

$40k?! Where can I get one?? 🤣

Yeah it's happening in other assets too. When interest rates were low, there was a shortage in everything. Now that rates are higher, there will be a surplus. Or at least less of a shortage.

Especially when PHEVs have most of the benefits of an EV with none of the drawbacks... and they don't cost a fortunate to buy (and most qualified for the stupid EV tax credits!) 😂

There’s also the fact that the power train of a well-maintained ICE vehicle can last decades and hundreds of thousands of miles. The same cannot be said for a BEV. Good maintenance will not stop the deterioration of the $20k battery pack. Dropping 40-50% in the first year makes sense, because when they hit 5, they’re basically worthless.

@@haredr6511 I wouldn't call the battery part of the "power train" of an EV anymore than the fuel tank or fuel injectors is part of it in an ICE. Otherwise, you don't seem to have any clue about EVs if you think they're "basically worthless" after 5 years... Tesla batteries are supposed to only have about 10% degradation after 10 years.

@@jasono2139 Actually, I’m highly versed in battery performance and how they’re integrated into EVs. Your 10% degradation happens almost immediately, basically within the fist year, assuming the vehicle is driven easily, on flat land, and in nominal temps. The batteries are massively over-designed so that the consumer can’t use even close to its full capacity when new. Capacity is slowly released as the vehicle ages so that the degradation isn’t immediately apparent. The batteries in EVs are the same as in your phone and laptop, BUT in a much harsher environment that degrades them even faster. It’s inherent in the chemistry and impossible to get around. Go lookup a 5yr old EV. Again, basically worthless. The market is fully aware of the problem, and until there’s full transparency on battery health for used BEVs, they will depreciate massively. You’d never want a BEV from AZ, FL, ND, MN, or any other extreme climate, or one that ever went to the drag strip, or one that was used routinely for spirited driving, or one that was ever put on a so-called “supercharger” station. The market has to assume that all BEVs experienced some of these conditions, and the $20k battery will need to be replaced, hence the depreciation. Oh, and FYI: fuel injectors ARE part of the power train, as they’re integral to the engine.

That and also the battery degrades as it ages, regardless if it’s used much or not.

Buy a used EV is a huge risk - it is like buying a financial Hand grenade - No one tells the truth about the Battery lifespan, The battery is where the value is the car around it is basically worthless

in the toilet. billions wasted and will take 2-3 big players out when the bubble bursts.

Dear Ed and the gang. The EV Market is dead, just like back in the late 70's when Carter tried to push it. The Ramcharger, perfect example, its a hybrid, not a complete EV, Toyota is more focused on hybrids and not really going deep into the EV fray, not enough infrastructure and the "Infrastructure" bill has no real incentives for making the grid bigger and better for EV Market. Dead and will be completely dead by 2025. The tech and grid are not there and it'll take at least 2 decades to get there at best.

Well, I'd say get your rocks off now by buying a big 8 cylinder fast and fun car while you can. Regardless of whether we like it or not, the truth is oil is running out and if it wasn't for fracking, we would be paying more like $8-9 dollars at the pump today due to how limited and controlled oil production would be. So the battery EV is here to stay, while the fun gas car will probably be relegated to a luxury for rich people.

DOWN. I think more and more people are realizing that after the cost of admission to EVs combined with all of the practicality compromises that come with it, the value is just not there. I just got rid of my Model Y and went back to ICE. It's so much better.

Probably not good in the short term for every auto manufacturer making EV's who isn't Tesla or Kia. They all seem to be struggling to put out decent 1st generation products at a reasonable price.

The rich are getting out and into new cars and the poors will be stuck w/. Artery replacement costs. Lots wrong w/ that picture.

@@Bob_Smith19 Expensive parts and repair bills are coming to most modern cars unfortunately. Look up ford's 5600 dollar tail light repair. That was a gas F150. Not a fun day, I imagine...

The only issue is that you're not going to get to buy something that nobody was interested in buying (at cost) in the first place... unless the government is the one doing it and forcing tax payers to make up for their losses (looking at you USPS). Nobody is going to be able to produce a Model 3 at Chevy Cobalt prices... never going to happen.

Model S or X people are paying 1700-2300 every 6 months in some cases. I’m at $939 every 6 months .

I'm wondering about the car insurance prices as well.@@bradley624

In time insurance companies will refuse to insure electric cars with the type of batteries they have today. What will that do to the market?

They're supposed to release cars with a new type of battery that's highly unlikely to cause such fires in a couple of years, I expect that's when older ev buyers will get shafted by insurance companies

I pay less than $1500 per year to insure my Model Y.

If you can't charge at home, I would advise against an EV right now.

@@RobbaKeef which is precisely the reason why there wont be full scale adoption because most people dont own their own house

Infrastructure is not in place in the US. They’re putting the cart before the horse. Expand the grid by 60% to handle the switch and then we can talk.

There's a big disconnect between the government and the citizens period, not just on this

Enough with the Tesla slander. Not everyone buys Teslas because they want to save the planet. People buy them because they’re convenient for their driving routine and because of how pleasant they are to drive and interact with them, and Tesla is among the best of them despite what RU-vid and Instagram would have you believe. But back to your generalization of all EVs being dynamic snoozefests, I can name at least 10 that are dynamically appealing. Don’t just take my word for it, look at what reviewers have to say about them. Even those qualities that you mentioned (V8 Engine and good handling) aren’t enough to save many cars from steep depreciation (just look at M3s and M5s). So many factors have to be right in order for a car to be investment viable, some of which are immeasurable. Plus I’d argue that used EVs are great value as long as the battery and electronics are in good shape since they offer similar driving experiences to the newer ones, and I suspect once more people adopt EVs the used values will rise.

Tesla is the Apple of the car industry. Tesla can put out a polished turd and the faithful will line up to buy it. A bare dashboard with a monitor stuck to it and Mitsubishi build quality is not what makes a luxury car.

@@bwofficial1776 Apple products are great and so many people buy them. Tesla products are great and so many people buy them.

​@@M67vNot that many people in the big picture of automotive sales.

@@bobbybishop5662 Tesla Model Y is the fourth best selling new car worldwide. Seems like a lot of people buy them.

Don't feel sorry for them, that was their decision.

I just bought a Tesla model Y last summer and I’m SO SO glad I waited. Saved like $20k in losses over a couple years. Now it’s a $50k car, only slightly higher than the average car sale place in the US leaving a lot less downside. Will still fall like a rock, but it’s closer to the ground.

@@mylesgray3470 - I bought my Model Y last summer too. With tax credits, it was actually less than the average car. It is the people that paid $80k plus a $10,000 market adjustment for a F150 or Dodge Ram that will be way underwater once the rebates return to those.

it ranges depending on how hybrid they are.

Hybrids depreciate a lot, because used car buyers care MOSTLY about the price, not the fuel savings. It's a good used car value considering the huge gas cost savings.

Well, from personal experience I can tell you they're hot. I tried buying a hybrid last year, I couldn't find one for the life of me, and most dealers told me to just get a new model instead. So that means one of two things: 1. They're selling out almost as soon as they're posted on a dealer. or 2. Most of the hybrid owners are keeping their hybrids (with good reason with gas prices nowadays) and that's creating shortages driving up demand.

@@raven2785That was a year ago. The market is completely different today.

@@raven2785Demand for used hybrids is extremely high and has been for a decade here in Seattle, especially Toyotas. These are the cars people buy for ride share and delivery to make a living so competition is always high. My Prius is 10 years old and is still worth about 40% of original MSRP with 150k miles.

Considering used i3s were going for $15k... it wouldn't surprise me! 😂

@@jasono2139 was a 2017 wRex was $26k w 10k miles

He was paid to read a script. I've heard 50 RU-vidrs share the same experience.

You must have a lot of extra time on your hands if you drive a lot of miles in an EV.

Your comment does not make sense - what do you call "a lot"? Km's?

@@nervotica7991 Says the troll.

@@mexicanspec since Denmark is small my longest total distance (so back and forth) that I drive is about 500km. That means I just need to do one charging break which suits me fine since I usually get something to eat or hit the head in that time. Then I usually have enough to get me back home where I then charge it full for the next day.

@@nervotica7991 I drive around 40.000km per year which is a lot for a country like Denmark.

Your maths is worrying

I think they're joking

Every single one? That's hard to believe. What proof do you have?

Damn, it's almost like you shouldn't buy a car named shit in French (no joke, put étron in Google translate)

Why would you ever expect to sell a car for what you paid for it 12 months later? You only paid $80K, not $100k.

The depreciation is as bad as it looks because you're intentionally ignoring how much the luxury version costs new to begin with.

Yea, I agree that higher trim levels don’t usually add a lot of resale value, unless your talking about an engine option that is highly sought after.

They’re still losing more and depreciating more than every single EV, range sucks on both those VW products

I feel sorry for you. What an absolutely awful car. Terrible engineering. One must feel like a complete failure in life if you are forced to daily drive a Leaf.

Story in the news recently of a guy with an electric Kia It was out of warranty by a few thousand miles, had some problems Took it to Kia dealership They handed him a quote for $50,000 for a battery replacement 50k to fix a Kia Yea, he scrapped it

That's a great question. The answer is clearly a lot but still much, much less than if I had paid more to purchase cars that had warranties. It would take time to tabulate but I would estimate it at about $200-300/mo on the daily driver cars. Timing chains on the SC Rover and some higher ticket items on the GL63 have been the only big hits.

I follow your recipe Ed, buy just out of warranty. Be my own warranty like Freddie T, and have fun watching the new luxury cars drop like a rock in value in 12-24 months 😁