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These Mistakes Are KILLING YOU! ☠ The Top 10 Mistakes New Players Make In ESO PVP! 

Hack The Minotaur
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27 авг 2024

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Комментарии : 218   
@HackTheMinotaur
@HackTheMinotaur 2 года назад
Design the Perfect ESO Build for YOU with Zero To Hero Academy! htm.podia.com/
@flangdoodle7867
@flangdoodle7867 3 года назад
Hey HTM. Just wanted to say that you are the *only* streamer/content-creater for ESO I've seen yet who shows your screw-ups as well as your victories. That's epic, and speaks highly of your character both as a gamer and human. Awesome stuff man. Keep it up.
@HackTheMinotaur
@HackTheMinotaur 3 года назад
Appreciate it!
@jakemoonwolf1079
@jakemoonwolf1079 3 года назад
Hack, you're the best builder I've seen. We need PvP builds.
@Hekk.
@Hekk. 3 года назад
I only die when I'm out of hp.
@kaanenthorne3920
@kaanenthorne3920 3 года назад
I still suck at pvp but at least I don't panic as much as I used to. My son chuckles when I get massacred in pvp. Thanks for the useful tips.
@daspisch
@daspisch 3 года назад
The largest and most common mistake is to play PVP with PvE build - this is just free frag
@carsonkouts
@carsonkouts 3 года назад
I do it when I need to knock out a quick daily bg but it's rough 😂
@jakemoonwolf1079
@jakemoonwolf1079 3 года назад
Not always. My pve tank does great in bgs
@carsonkouts
@carsonkouts 3 года назад
@@jakemoonwolf1079 I feel like he's talking more about the guys rocking relequen and berserking warrior and stuff like that lol
@christianhelton5838
@christianhelton5838 3 года назад
Oh, I feel this. Go in with full hundings and briar with ring of pale order. Sure I can burst damage, but they just gotta hit an ability and I'm booped!
@epicurious6078
@epicurious6078 3 года назад
That also applies to skills, even saw someone do it in this vid. Don't use your typical stationary AOEs for pve in pvp. Like endless hail for example, you're basically just wasting stam.
@theuntimelyone3234
@theuntimelyone3234 3 года назад
This obviously isn't all encompassing or perfect but this really covers a TON of the starting strategies to go from useless to actually able to hold your own in BattleGrounds. These are great places to start when changing how you play during BGs to be a little better!
@dumitrugonzalez4372
@dumitrugonzalez4372 3 года назад
Pvp tip: Never heal the orb carrier, remember you're better than him and if he dies you can secure the orb and carry your team
@alargeshrubb7964
@alargeshrubb7964 3 года назад
Better pvp tip.if ur the orb carrier stay away from your teammates so you dont kill them with the AOE dot that surrounds the orb carrier because some of them are nightblades and nightblades can only protect you if i stop dotting them and pulling them out of sneak. And some of them just cant tank the increasingly hurty dot AND other players because thats just not in the nature of some classes abilities.
@dumitrugonzalez4372
@dumitrugonzalez4372 3 года назад
@@cringyjerry4613 I bet you get invited to a lot of parties...
@dumitrugonzalez4372
@dumitrugonzalez4372 3 года назад
@@alargeshrubb7964 Hey! Dont put a good tip on my joke tip, put it as its own comment
@JamesOKeefe-US
@JamesOKeefe-US 3 года назад
The slow mo clips just show how insane these situations are :) I burn ultimates all the time. Speaking from experience, the words, "Dammit, I didn't mean to do that" is unfortunately my most often utterance :) Great Vid as always! 👍
@HackTheMinotaur
@HackTheMinotaur 3 года назад
Do you have any tips for ESO PVP? Let us know in the comments!
@coreybroussard5264
@coreybroussard5264 3 года назад
Why are you in low level BGs in all of these clips?
@EfficaciousHustle
@EfficaciousHustle 3 года назад
Don't forget ya food 😉
@marcovchb
@marcovchb 3 года назад
@@coreybroussard5264 what's the problem with that?
@marcovchb
@marcovchb 3 года назад
I would add... Don't forget to dodge roll/break free. I have a friend that doesn't have break free mapped to his controller. And keep up food, potions, poisons and buffs up.
@coreybroussard5264
@coreybroussard5264 3 года назад
@@marcovchb low level BGs doesn’t accurately reflect the way you should be playing in PvP, his tips were great but still just questioning why low level BGs.
@lettussy
@lettussy 3 года назад
As a new MagDK, I am so proud of my 10 kill 3 death 17 assist game. I was top of the leaderboard. It was so unexpected and I see people on the forums talk about how terrible MagDKs are in PvP.
@Johndoe-yl7er
@Johndoe-yl7er 3 года назад
:D Right on, you covered lots of helpful tips. For players who stink at pvp, try this. Go tanky with some heals/recovery, then as you get more comfortable with surviving, peel back the tankiness, heals and recovery (replacing them with dmg) until you find your sweet spot.
@douglascoons5434
@douglascoons5434 3 года назад
Done all the quests in Cyrodil, but I've been avoiding PVP - it almost seems like a different game to me. Maybe I'll start a PVP build.
@NewmiesDad
@NewmiesDad 3 года назад
It IS an entirely different game. You will probably get DELETED in the beginning, but try and stick with some others and you will def benefit your alliance. CARRY SEIGE, help repair, stealth away, or stay till the end for a chance at glory. ;) You will see EPIC fights. Very fun. Saying that, I myself have never done the THIRD game mode, fashion! j/k - Battlegrounds! In Cyro there's lots to do besides constantly dueling - BGs has objectives but much more about 1vX fighting.
@alargeshrubb7964
@alargeshrubb7964 3 года назад
Also penetration is king in pvp whereas crit is king in pve. And roll every piece of your armor to have the " impenetrable" trait. Because it gives you crit resistance which makes players hit you for ALOT less damage. Thats where most players make mistakes in pvp. They go in with your average crit based pve builds wearing divines armor and then end up dealing virtually no damage and getting 2 shotted and then they never touch pvp again. It sucks. More people should pvp.
@metasaurus3233
@metasaurus3233 3 года назад
​@@alargeshrubb7964 crit is also king in pvp, you really have to stack into it however(shadow mundus, acuity, nightblade or templar.) lots of people stopped wearing impen when malacath became the meta, more people moving towards impen once again now that bombing/ganking has become so strong agian, that being said it's all about balance, my nightblade has 5800 spell dmg 113% crit damage and 21k penetration.
@explanationable
@explanationable 3 года назад
@@metasaurus3233 my NB fully buffed is at 7600 Weapon Damage, 22k Pen, 43-48% Crit Chance(cant remember)
@flangdoodle7867
@flangdoodle7867 3 года назад
It is a different game, but once you get into it, it's totally addictive! Just don't be discouraged if you die a lot at first- everyone does. Everyone. Just consider it training and learn from it. Have fun and good luck!
@cypherdroid
@cypherdroid 3 года назад
I recommend to stack penetration players are super tanky in pvp at least 20k pen, also put some impenetrable traits in your gear, that will help you survive those nasty nightblades. Good vid hack thanks
@abstractfactory8068
@abstractfactory8068 2 года назад
Damn how do you even get to 20k pen??? At most I get to 10k with two pvp pen sets and lover stone and buffs, and I mean when playing the hardcore no-cp modes.
@santim6413
@santim6413 3 года назад
Great video! Would love more PVP builds with Midyear Mayhem coming!
@phantomprince4278
@phantomprince4278 3 года назад
This video came at a great time for me! Just diving into pvp for the first time! Id love some builds or general building tips for pvp too!
@benjamincruzj
@benjamincruzj 2 года назад
First of all, thank you for all the work that you put into these videos, are amazing and very helpful. Question: Do you have or maybe plan in the future, to do some sort of guide or tips for crafting? Maybe a crafting guide, if race or class is important, have different characters or just one, best traits or locations to farm materiales, etc. I know it is a very huge topic, but it could be very interesting.
@doakesanddrax
@doakesanddrax 3 года назад
I've tried so many times to get into pvp. It's just not beginner friendly. Idk if it's the matchmaking or what
@AmbientDisguise
@AmbientDisguise 3 года назад
Thanks for an awesome video. Resource management and positioning are definitely my weak points, also I found out about back barring a weapon damage enchant way too late in the game.
@grizzlymint6792
@grizzlymint6792 3 года назад
Also if you're a magika based character and have no CC, use dawn breaker. It'll help secure so much more kills.
@grizzlymint6792
@grizzlymint6792 3 года назад
I really build for max stat and typically no proc builds, but the biggest tip I would add is build into health and unless you're a gank build invest in health and the well fitted trait. I typically only do PvP but I love your channel I've even tried a few solo builds to. For PvP tho I'd say to have at least 26k health. I feel comfortable with 28-30K health with at least 45k max mag because I typically use magika based builds. Thanks for the video Hack!
@malindamoore8
@malindamoore8 3 года назад
I go in on my main, a healer, which is either AMAZING or AWFUL. I've literally won with a full team of healers (wearing combat medic gear). Though I've also been SMASHED due to being only that moves. Half of PvP isn't even having the DPS it's being able to avoid it.
@stonebonezone
@stonebonezone 2 года назад
Really good video. I liked all the examples you show. Makes it all easier to learn.
@siniister710
@siniister710 3 года назад
appreciate this. I'm almost 900 cp but never ever do PvP because I'm so much worse at it than PvE, but this list def helped address a few things. I think with that and essentially having a full secondary PvP setup I should be much better moving forward.
@FatalFist
@FatalFist 3 года назад
Always love seeing your content pop up man, I appreciate your hard work in keeping attention positive for ESO
@screaminscott4447
@screaminscott4447 3 года назад
If you have a gap closer on your main bar, I think you could ditch the bow for either sword and board or resto staff tbh
@dky1115
@dky1115 3 года назад
Great to see your pvp video again. I loved your pvp build so much since it was very easy and fun :)
@Deruzejaku
@Deruzejaku 3 года назад
If I may add xD I did tend to spam skills all over on enemies clearly on the retreat, basically wasting res on enemy that gonna dodge anyway xD
@johntexan4165
@johntexan4165 3 года назад
Me too… when your level 15 in Cyrodil, you’re not doing much else. LoL
@EgaoKage
@EgaoKage 3 года назад
*Mistake Number One: Failing To Follow Metas Which Function As ZOS-Sanctioned Exploitations* *Mistake Number Two: Solo Queue Random + Teammates Who Contribute Absolutely Nothing* I.E.: Players with builds and play-styles which fail to share the benefits of their class and-or sets with their team; players who disregard their teammates, all-together.
@migioliveros2725
@migioliveros2725 3 года назад
Can you do a warden pvp build
@vekk134
@vekk134 3 года назад
I remember when this channel was mainly PvP.....good old days it was for sure
@benshearer1710
@benshearer1710 2 года назад
The biggest problem I have with pvp mostly in cyrodil is I can't seem too target anyone with those single target abilities the worst is the two handed execute I regularly stun them get them low and can be looking right at them but no can't use the execute I know this is down too lag aswell but even in battle grounds this happens alot
@Geluchi88
@Geluchi88 3 года назад
Number 1 mistake is believing the monkeys you are facing at below level 50 bg's is the common ppl you are facing at the real pvp in this game.
@Geluchi88
@Geluchi88 3 года назад
@Stamuel L Procson yeah, we all have been there
@daspisch
@daspisch 3 года назад
Some hack builds for pvp coming soon?)
@gtypethang
@gtypethang 2 года назад
I wanted to ask if I should invest in making a PVP set, and if so, what would be recommended?
@michellepartridge8558
@michellepartridge8558 2 года назад
I see newer people not keeping their buffs up, just because you don't see anyone doesn't mean a night blade or even a group isn't nearby in stealth.
@GRAVEGAMING
@GRAVEGAMING 3 года назад
Ty HTM
@joeyanunti
@joeyanunti 3 года назад
If you can, CC the enemies on cooldowns. It's a huge stam drain to break free to be immobilized and have to dodge roll. I can keep those tanky AF DKs at bay just with ccs
@AllThingsFascinate
@AllThingsFascinate 3 года назад
I felt so attacked as the Stamina Warden without a stun. We don't have one! Hope for luck with arctic blast. I just started experimenting with a 1h & shield backbar for a stun
@HackTheMinotaur
@HackTheMinotaur 3 года назад
The wardens I fight who use Arctic Blast are much tougher imo, especially as a stamplar - it completely destroys my burst window. What about Turn Evil from the fighter's guild? Dizzy Swing with a medium weave?
@madarauchiha9774
@madarauchiha9774 3 года назад
How’s your day
@Rythmguitarable
@Rythmguitarable 3 года назад
good, you?
@ericvoneric5069
@ericvoneric5069 3 года назад
Love this guy going to use this in Bg's today!!
@marcovchb
@marcovchb 3 года назад
This is awesome! Thanks, very useful!
@marcovchb
@marcovchb 3 года назад
@Stamuel L Procson on PVP YES, is that a problem?
@johntexan4165
@johntexan4165 3 года назад
I totally agree. Get a level 10 toon into pre-50 cyrodil and learn as you level. It allows you to learn skills as you level up and provides you the time to adjust your skills to your play style without worrying too much about top tier equipment and champion points. It’s a good foundation for better pvping later.
@KrytinX
@KrytinX 3 года назад
Nice tips but sadly I can never play PVP in this game because of high ping. Things just happen too quickly for me to react.
@n3fieu369
@n3fieu369 3 года назад
I live in NZ and play lots of BGs. It definately hurts you but you can have good games
@metasaurus3233
@metasaurus3233 3 года назад
if you are new, play something that is really tanky or has alot of damage. playing those in between builds is really difficult if you dont yet understand lining up burst while staying alive.
@waleeda8634
@waleeda8634 3 года назад
You forgot mistake #0 playing with high ping/lag against someone with very low ping or no lag.
@metasaurus3233
@metasaurus3233 3 года назад
neither player has an advantage in that situation honestly. theres a guy from aus on pc na that legit teleports in bg's lol it's impossible to land a hit on him.
@christinehede7578
@christinehede7578 3 года назад
Playing from Australia makes pvp a nightmare.
@waleeda8634
@waleeda8634 3 года назад
@@metasaurus3233 player with low ping is always be able to hit you, heal up faster and aviod most if not all your damage and depending on your ping, they can be 1+ second ahead of you.
@mudieproductions
@mudieproductions 3 года назад
Great tips! Thank you!
@drynnbavis
@drynnbavis 3 года назад
Any tips on breaking free from stuns? Some people break free from my cc in like half a second... some times it takes me like 3 seconds no matter how much I spam Left and Right click
@daveb8559
@daveb8559 3 года назад
Good stuff and very helpful. Thank you.
@999madgamer
@999madgamer 3 года назад
couple questions, what a good set of abilities for mag templar? I'm using some defensive armor which is good but I'm not enough damage, is there some good sets of jewelry and weapons that deal damage and have a small amount of defense? also, the most annoying, is there a way to deal with stealth players without a detection skill? (they are really annoying). I'm thinking there isn't and maybe just slot a detection skill. Edit: also is blocking worth it? if not, I'm thinking of using Gaze of Sithis
@mehmetbekirbirden6858
@mehmetbekirbirden6858 3 года назад
I think the biggest mistake is playing with the default camera distance. U may not see this in opponents but it is there. Also, I hate templars and they are the cheese of BGs. :)
@turtle-bot3049
@turtle-bot3049 3 года назад
The main thing that hurts me is the ping, which is why I really don't like the burst combo nature of the more recent PvP. sitting at 300 ping at best, there's no chance to avoid burst combos or even try to heal, it really sucks. Hence why you will always see so many people asking for oceanic servers. I've been able to adapt to it for the most part, but the super bursty nature of current skill combos is a real limit on how well anyone with higher than 150 ping can do.
@osheadavis
@osheadavis 2 года назад
Thanks for vid. Helpfull
@Flame_FirE
@Flame_FirE 3 года назад
What in your opinion is the best pvp class? Ive been playing so much pve so Im trying to get into pvp lil
@Rodolphobello
@Rodolphobello 3 года назад
Nice vid. great tips.
@wwtkful
@wwtkful 3 года назад
I dont see one pretty important. Dont forget your buffs / debuff enemy
@ShadowWizard
@ShadowWizard 3 года назад
with my sorc i have only 1heal, critical surge that relies on my damage no room for more skills i have all necessary skills slotted
@TheBrilliantPhoenix
@TheBrilliantPhoenix 2 года назад
My biggest problem right now is when I get a kill on my magsorc, I get immediately ganked by (usually) 2 from the other team, usually from behind so I don't even see them, I'm just suddenly dead. Is there any way I can avoid the majority of these? It's probably just positioning, I'm not paying enough attention or missing something obvious. Thanks for any help provided!ove to all.
@CPTxRAGE
@CPTxRAGE 3 года назад
What lunge attack is that you are using ?
@kauenunes1392
@kauenunes1392 3 года назад
Very Good videos, thanks for the tips :D
@Vorroza226
@Vorroza226 9 месяцев назад
Mistake number 2, i dont have time to switch bars to heal before i die 😢 does gear matter for battlegrounds?
@ShadowWizard
@ShadowWizard 3 года назад
my last skill is camouflage hunter on 5th slot
@mayoactual2065
@mayoactual2065 3 года назад
The largest & most common mistake is to play PvP
@aaronmarkham4424
@aaronmarkham4424 3 года назад
What keeps killing me is I’m a glass cannon, I’m not into copy and paste builds. I hit harder than anyone else, the flip side is I can’t take damage, in fact the idea is to not take ANY damage
@aurasfate7016
@aurasfate7016 3 года назад
Well shit... Looks like I'm terrible at the game 😂 SO MUCH TO LEARN!!!! Thanks for the vid, it's really helping
@thenightswatch1083
@thenightswatch1083 3 года назад
What set does the green swirls? I see it all the time but I don't really pvp.
@cipher1000101
@cipher1000101 3 года назад
Love my DK & Temp in BG's 😜 smack down!
@JasonC5542
@JasonC5542 3 года назад
What would you say is a good beginner class to get into PVP? (Mainly BG's)
@HackTheMinotaur
@HackTheMinotaur 3 года назад
Templar is great or Sorcerer. Stamina or Magicka, both are strong
@Psiberzerker
@Psiberzerker 3 года назад
If you are just spamming 1 skill, Templar. It's not going to do it all, but Puncturing Sweeps does a lot of it. Melee is done. Emergency healing is pretty good, but if you can keep Durations up, nobody stands their ground like a Tanklar. Just drop some Runes, turn as necessary to keep everyone in the AoE, and stab them to death. That gets boring after a while, but it works with any weapon. ANY weapon, I delight in the irony of stabbing everything to death with a Restoration Staff, but if it's Spamina. Nothing stands their ground like a Tanklar. I mean played right, you don't need a Tank if you can kill them fast enough, so start with Sword&Board. Throw some DoTs on there, Wall of Elements, Carve, or Acid Spray in between Biting Jabs works, (With Reflective Light, and Splitting Trap) and just kills them faster...
@Itzwizb
@Itzwizb 3 года назад
I need a good pvp build..I used to be the player who just played because I enjoyed the game..now I’m playing with friends who enjoy pvp but we go against players who’s been playing for years..the fun factor is still there because we accepted that we lack a lot of knowledge and experience lol but I still wanna give us a fighting chance
@aaronmarkham4424
@aaronmarkham4424 3 года назад
I’d agree with your assessments of your gameplay, I just hate Templar cheese builds
@paulcotton1992
@paulcotton1992 3 года назад
i just hate it when you come across a guy who has been playing for years , your empty your full clip into there back and they just turn around and one shot you.
@RachelKatWalsh
@RachelKatWalsh 3 года назад
i'm curious to know if you or any other players make judgements on how good they expect another player to be based on their cp? just cus i'm like over 1000 but i am truly ~trash~ at pvp (and pve tbh) because most of the time i've spent in game has been solo questing and furnishing and chill stuff so i have very little combat prowess lmao, and i sometimes feel embarrassed in pvp zones when i get bodied cus i have fairly high cp and i feel like i should be better by now
@eftultima
@eftultima 6 месяцев назад
What about damage shields getting eaten up in a second
@FoundaPeanut
@FoundaPeanut 3 года назад
Biggest tip for PVP, if you see well organized groups, leave PVP completely, unless you have a group of people that have been playing the game since day one and love PVP. Unless you want to crush your controller against the wall. The enormous population of well skilled players, makes it impossible for anybody to learn anything about PVP.
@SovereignTroll
@SovereignTroll 2 года назад
Yes. The age group hurts this too.
@freekii129
@freekii129 3 года назад
Best defence for me is Block. But i Play a strong stamcro ;)
@Cellaperian
@Cellaperian 3 года назад
Remember to target the enemy player your team is attacking and try not to be the solo hero stick with your group . Group coordination wins battle. Call outs over mic is best
@SovereignTroll
@SovereignTroll 2 года назад
The need for group to STAY TOGETHER is so important
@user-og9wh8zj4u
@user-og9wh8zj4u 3 года назад
Good tips
@bminturn
@bminturn 3 года назад
Great gear will cover up a lot of sloppy play.
@tugal1917
@tugal1917 3 года назад
Anyone have any recommendations for a pvp werewolf build?
@wowcraft8784
@wowcraft8784 3 года назад
Day 2 of asking hack to make a solo vampire magdk build
@user-ii3pg2dq2j
@user-ii3pg2dq2j 3 года назад
I want pvp builds, from you.
@axegamez17
@axegamez17 3 года назад
why are all these on below cp bg's ?
@cinchmccoy
@cinchmccoy 3 года назад
probably running all gold armor weapons and jewels as well to make it look really good pickin on these lowbies lol
@ericrobirds3555
@ericrobirds3555 Год назад
I have been having a hard time and I have played for years and I don’t know why at all it’s like I just suck they just heal
@chrisdovahkiin
@chrisdovahkiin 3 года назад
I run max damg with bloodthirsty i push over 6k damg 31k stam 58% crit but i love my silver leash with retribution with arrow barrage with a maelstrom i pull them in stun 2 seconds im already hiting 15k dps by the time time 3 jabs off then burning light then dam! Flawless dawnbreaker unless your pushing over 30k resist your dead im running harpooners deadly briar heart maelstrom
@GES1985
@GES1985 3 года назад
Do you get assault/support xp for battlegrounds?
@GES1985
@GES1985 3 года назад
I suck at ESO PVP but I want some of the skills lol
@SCP-ew7bu
@SCP-ew7bu 3 года назад
How do you not know what Hulu is what country do you live in
@garywderock
@garywderock 2 года назад
New players are the biggest pain in the ass. As a healer, it's so aggravating when they blame me for their stupidy.
@kendob9642
@kendob9642 3 года назад
Just had an 18/2/15 game with my PvE magSorc smileyface xD
@g59terrorist43
@g59terrorist43 3 года назад
What glitch do you do to get all this money or pc mods?
@thestaz8564
@thestaz8564 3 года назад
thanks!
@rileymeyer4540
@rileymeyer4540 2 года назад
What build is this?
@aaronchong2194
@aaronchong2194 3 года назад
Me doing the combo as fast as I can. 350 pings: No.
@ShadowWizard
@ShadowWizard 3 года назад
higher lvl ppl can rolldodge yes but like who have enough CP also for 1 with my current cp lvl i focus more on damage so no points on reducing stam cost of roll its enough for pve so if i were to roll a lot i can't do dam, not a new player played before last play 2017 and then was away for years, my point is what is their CP lvl? maybe they also haven't put points on roll stam cost m reduction? another thing sometimes i fail at rolldodge i double bush s or w but nothing happens also double bush costs time to begin with u would need to be able to think 1step ahead
@ShadowWizard
@ShadowWizard 3 года назад
i get that if ur magic build u can use all the stam u want without worrying i mean until it runs try
@viniciuscubas547
@viniciuscubas547 3 года назад
Can you share this build in this video ?
@vainthedestroyer
@vainthedestroyer 3 года назад
I only go to pvp battlegrounds to get the dragon horned motifs my damage isn't that great sense my main is full on PvE not pvp but sometimes I come out with 10 or 15 kills out of nowhere I enjoy pvp just wish I had a good set for pvp I'm pretty poor on gold in this game lol I use it to much
@mrdashin8323
@mrdashin8323 3 года назад
I like to play terminator style. I'll run into a group and start killing Oooooor dying.
@claudua6562
@claudua6562 Год назад
I want to be like you when I grow up why they stop me and I can not move
@marcusgames4518
@marcusgames4518 3 года назад
Oh look the Templar is talking about spamming only one ability you know the class that spams only Puncturing Sweep
@whoareyou56101
@whoareyou56101 3 года назад
Do you think health is important too? I’ve seen people with 16-17k health in BGs just get clapped in a blink of an eye. Wondering what the optimal hp range is for pvp.
@HackTheMinotaur
@HackTheMinotaur 3 года назад
Yes I probably should have included this. You need a food or drink that buffs health. I’d want 22k minimum. 24k is better if you can
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