This video was re-uploaded to add clarity to the Starforge section with regard to the cost of shipping. We believe this new version is a much more fair representation of what it's like to order from Starforge Systems today.
Kinda surprised y'all didnt mention that this change to show them separately happened *after* you ordered, and only after the video went live. Starforge updated their site silently yesterday. Seems suspicious.
The commitment to re-uploading the video to fix a mistake is greatly appreciated For those who didn’t know, LTT re-uploaded this video to fix a mistake with the shipping fee of the starforge pc. 27:55 (this was more of a starforge problem than a LTT one)
This wasn't even a mistake. Their first video was valid, and only did because Starforge played the "small business" card. It was nice of LMG to do so, but in no way necessary.
My grandpa is 97. He was just telling me about how he started this series as a little boy with his grandpa during the great depression, and has fond memories of the joy it brought him during dark days. So I had to watch it for myself. I agree, great series. Too bad half-life 3 will drop before part 3.
For people who were wondering what happened, Starforge were whining that LTT said shipping was $300 when it was only $100 + $200 in taxes. The problem is Starforge themselves combined the shipping and taxes into 1 line called "shipping fees" so it is entirely THEIR fault that LTT misrepresented the actual cost. LTT didn't have to reupload the video to correct this minor issue as it wasn't their fault but the fact that they did shows their commitment to accuracy.
To me it feels like it is ltt's responsibility to correct that error, including shipping and fees under one line is not a mistake. Not reading it tho, that is.
they were reading off the official invoice which labeled it only Shipping and Handling,not the website, which is what any accounting department would do. That's not LTTs fault that's bad invoicing.
@@Nessaurio They didn't misread it though, Starforged charged them incorrectly. LMG was charged $309 for shipping AND $162 for tax and both were listed in their invoice. The $162 was later refunded due to a bug that double charged them for tax. That still leaves a $47 discrepancy that isn't explained.
Good stuff Linus. Thank you for once again inckuding us in this year's Secret Shopper. Great to see the industry as a whole step up, especially the Tier 1 guys. Looking forward to watching the rest of the series. - MAINGEAR CEO
Really love this series. It's cool seeing a deep dive that covers so many of the frustration points for consumers. Cheaping out on shipping protection is a big problem these days. And with cost of living going up, when we do make a splurge purchase, having that $2000 product arrive with even superficial damage can be a huge downer for the customer. It's a little sad that protecting your product properly is considered going above and beyond nowadays, instead of the bare minimum that we should expect out of companies. Can't wait for part three though.
It is a hard game. Shipping with good protection can add some cost. You can throw $50 more on the price for it but in the end the consumer may buy from a competitor because of those $50 and you suddenly lost a customer. The thing is that this happens because the customer only sees specs and cost. The customer can't see how shipping will be fulfilled so why would he ever go for the most expensive one? A good way to solve their problem is actually show the packaging with the order. If they show me some amazing packaging that will have very little chance my system will come damaged and the system is $50 more than the competitor that doesn't clarify at all how he will package what he sends me then i can think of paying the $50 just so i can sleep easy instead of worrying about some unknown packaging that will risk my $2000 system being $2000 worth spare parts. But if i see nothing then why pay the $50. How will i know that the slightly more expensive won't be badly packaged?
From an enviroment point of view there's a ballance between avoiding non-recycleable packaging and stopping the computer parts from getting damaged when they have the far larger carbon footprint than 50g of closed cell foam
I assume shipping something with not enough packaging just for it to break and require being shipped back or a replacement part being shipped out has an even larger footprint than just adding the packaging in.
Yeah, as someone else mentioned, even if your using sustainable materialsand your manufacturing process is all powered by green energy. You've got huge carbon costs in shipping. But the biggest objection to plastics is single use/dispoasable uses. A qualtiy closed cell foam is designed to be multi use and can be kept for the lifetime of the case, making transporting if you move or going to a friemds/lan much easier and safer
It's worth noting that the checkout page you guys use in this updated version is new. This was updated overnight and was not present before yesterday. Previously, both fees were combined into a single "Shipping" line.
I personally own a starforge pc and the breakdown was always there. If you don't believe me, there's video evidence of Asmongold talking about how his community wanted to see the VAT from 3 months ago ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-CSgSUqXWWqk.html.
Hey Linus, when you do the software performance review can you take into account the preinstalled apps/bloatware on the systems? For a lot of users, especially ones that don't know how to fresh install windows from a USB this can be a dealbreaker.
Exactly what I expected for an LTT reup - no punches pulled on the packing solution, but a very reasonable rewrite of the shipping/tax cost (and an important clarification that they were double charged the tax, then refunded)! Awesome work guys - you love to see it!
There was no need for reupload here, starforge did not have a clear separation . As evidence to that they just changed their website this week to reflect that properly. And to top it all off they double charged people, linus was a happy case that called and they refunded him but i'm sure a lot of other people did not. Just a scummy company that i wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole
I would say that it looked like more than one company using that expandable foam for support, did not have the sticker over the power supply, even though only one got called out for the omission.
wanted to say as someone who works for the ups store who regularly packs things, i appreciated the packing material review. I wanted to just say with the starforge pc the row of bubble wrap that was popped isnt due to a drop its due to the factory rolls of bubble wrap coming pre perforated and that perforation leaking entire rows of it. Its very annoying and when i pack things i usually put a patch over those rows.
so this is the retake that shows starforge in a better light? but still has a loose motherboard screw rattling around and a bit of the pcie bracket falls out when you take the side panel off. to me the confusion around the shipping price vs import taxes feels like the least of their issues
I haven't bought a pre-built pc for 30+ years now, but I still watch this and take mental notes like I might actually some day. I dunno why. My favorite series though, can't wait for the next video.
Agreed. The last time I bought a pre-built there was no padding so all of the jostling caused the CPU cooler to rip off and act as a wrecking ball on the GPU and the motherboard. Much less anxiety in spending hours checking for part compatibility, ordering individual components and building it myself then spending maybe a few hours figuring out why it won't post or whatever. That sounds like sarcasm but it really isn't.
@@VikingGekz whining on Twitter and deleting it, having their braindead twitch army to harass people and having to put out a psa to not do that, over something so inconsequential that it could be fixed by a clarification, and you say there’s no drama? The fact is starforge is being petty because they know they can take advantage of the ltt controversy to make it look like they’re the victims
@@VikingGekz Your comment is more along the lines of making up drama. Don't comment on something unless you have actual knowledge about it. StarForge tried to drum up negative press, and made it seem like LTT was attacking them.
I feel like HP have been doing good with pricing and quality for laptops its nice to see that it seems to hold true for the towers as well (I am refereeing to Victus laptops I have gotten two in the last 3 months one for me personally and one for a family member)
Starforge menaged to turn a huge L into two gigantic L in the row. Overcharging by 100 dollars, shipping broken PC and then to top it off having catastrophic public answer in twitter put them definitely far behind rest of sellers.
Not gonna lie I am dying laughing at the the UGREEN sponsor spots. They definitely got their money's worth on this one. lol. This and scrapyard wars are my favorite recurring series on the channel. Love the dedication on the pricing for Starforge to go as far as a reshoot and reupload. Keep up the good work LTT!
Disappointed that you guys didn't highlight the shady responses given by Starforge to this. And the fact that the tax/shipping was RECENTLY added as two separate parts on their website
I am more disappointed that they made it seem like as if it was their own fault and didn't even grasp the idea that starforge possibly has already being doing this to thousands of customers
I completely understand their approach. During the heat they got in their last controversy, Linus got (correctly so) a lot of heat for his attempt of shifting the blame away. He doesn't want that any more, so the best thing possible for them is to set the record straight without blaming ANYONE. I also feel they should have mentioned that Starforge added the seperate billing of taxes and shipping later, but that should not take away from the fix they did here. From their previous video it would seem as if you would pay over 300$ to get this shipped over continent borders and thats not the case. They did good and it shows their procedures do work.
Oh actually I just realized, they should have it all filmed already though before releasing any of them because they do that intentionally so the companies don't know it's happening. So why is it taking so damn long?
@@17arando completely forgot about that, so it's probably all been shot but linus has them editing everything else except for finishing this series, since his adhd must make him think everyone gets bored and they very rarely finish a series
I don't think the price of windows 11 should be added on the price of the systems, as no one is paying for windows anymore. On the dell I put together that system with the exact parts right at $1000 usd, paying almost $150 for windows is crazy
nobody ever would anyway, the venn diagram of people willing to pay 300$ extra for a prebuilt and people who want to use linux have zero interjection @@TheSjuris
i like how this version makes star forge look worse than the original did, this one specifies that the tax price was also messed up on star forges side (even more incompetence) and had to be refunded at a later date, this video was actually bad for them.
@@sunbleachedangelworse for starforge not LTT. Starforge was complaining that LTT was misrepresenting them, but this video makes starforge look worse.
@@oliverfern8039 Yeah I'm not sure what that person read but it wasn't what was said lol, star forge retroactively made changes to try and fix stuff, but still had mistakes and this video pointed out the further mistakes that were missed the first time lol. it actually went from an acknowledgement of just shipping damage and shipping cost to, here's multiple additional ways that star forge screwed up
@@DanielFerreira-ez8qdThere is literally no person and no company that doesn't make mistakes, and when it coems to software issues that's doubly so. I'm sure your work is also full of mistakes if you worked for a number of years. No need to be a hypocrite.
MSI motherboards on system integration systems use a custom firmware that you cannot easily upgrade to a regular MSI firmware. I ran into this issue on my Maingear PC when I needed to upgrade the firmware to use direct memory access with my Nvidia GPU. I bought the PC expecting standard components, and the firmware issue really surprised me. I would appreciate it if you would mention this in your next video.
Gotta say as well, a loose motherboard screw in between the back of the motherboard and the case will WITHOUT A DOUBT fry the motherboard. So starforge not only shipped one that wouldn’t work as is, but would also definitely fry on startup.
@@peterdermeter7044While that's true, it's a gamble that even if it doesn't fry now if that screw gets dislodged and moves could fry later. It's terrible form for a prebuilt.
@@Mad-Lad-Chad I did that 30 years ago with every single motherboard screw didn’t short anything. One screw being loose might not short anything , but can damage other things inside of the case such as a gpu.
If it's rattling around in the bottom of the case... I mean it's possible that it never shorts anything. It's bad service and a risk, but this is no guaranteed destruction like you claim.
@@CS2SkinInspect Except that other than putting the money and some marketing, the entire thing is actually run by someone else. They are not stupid enough to try and run it by themselves.
I think the overall outcome of the "Secret Shopper" Linus and crew have done is just outstanding. Educating both consumers and Companies with the end goal of everyone wins in the end. Very well done so far.
Where is Part Three? These videos are actually really useful, much more so than constantly pumping out videos about the server room being cooled by a swimming pool. Please give us part 3....
Dang im on the edge of my seat. Really disappointed to see starforge fumble this again and send a busted PC, and im ready to see how it pans out in the end
@@Starscreamious Facts. Starforge reached out NOT KNOWING it was linus. So it's safe to assume the average customer will probably experience the same if something were to happen like this.
While I won't condone the bubblewrap that Starforge used, it's possible that the entirely popped row of bubbles may not be the result of shipping accidents. It might very well be that they are using rolls of bubblewrap which have toilet-paper style perforations so you can tear off as much as you need. Many of the shipping lines where I work use this type of bubblewrap.
@@haxie4516 The stuff we use at work is also individual bubbles, but because they perforate the roll, an entire row of bubbles will be pre-popped because that's where you're supposed to tear the roll, and perforations are just tiny holes which let the air out.
As someone who got an HP Omen as their first proper gaming PC, I'm happy to see it's less proprietary now. Upgrading it was fine for the most part, until I did my PSU. After that, cd drive never worked because it had a proprietary connector on it. Got a new PC now, but it makes me happy to see it doing well so far.
3:39 - I have an issue with computer manufacturers including DVD-R optical drives when they decide to include one instead of including an optical drive capable of reading and writing Blu-Ray disks. There are literally zero excuses for computer manufacturers not to install a Blu-Ray burner onto the computers instead of just DVD burners.
Seems like they bailed on it. Maybe they had too many of these companies whining about the videos or something and don't want to burn all their bridges.
@@andyr123861Feels like that would be a big deal, and they would address the fact that they bailed making the rest of the series. I think it might have something to do with the Gamers Nexus call out of their testing data quality. Since they said they'll be restructuring to focus more on quality and not quantity, maybe Linus instructed LTT Labs to take their time with the performance testing? This time they have more systems than they ever had...which might explain why it's taking so long. Whatever the reason is, it'd be nice if they let the community know what's up. Cause the timing of the releases doesn't make sense, and we're left to assume or theorize what's actually going on.
Everyone looking pretty good this time around! (Aside from starforge tbh I don’t think I’d trust them with my money but that was already the case, this video only reinforced that) I’m very curious to see how they all stack up performance wise!
After delivering for fedex for 3 years I gotta say I always put these cases on the floor and under a shelf so they wouldnt drop and wouldnt have anything fall on them but something fedex doesnt tell you is the terminal (at least the one i worked out of) has a 8 inch-1ft drop every single package gets when coming down the conveyer belt before its loaded onto the trucks this wasnt something that was an accident they made the conveyers line up this way and every package that would be a pickup for us and had a "This side up" sticker on it was immediately tossed onto the belt from the truck onto its side. You need to protect all 4 sides if you want it in one piece. Also the amount of shippers that would double box things with the outer bock being much much bigger than the inner box causing it to fly around and get smashed up was crazy, Walmart was one of the worst.
@@classicdevikin No but you mitigate it with resiliant packaging. You go into it knowing that it is going to get banged around, if it reaches the customer broken with any regularity then it is your fault.
@@classicdevikin if only someone in this video had time to explain how better packing materials can prevent courier roughness from doing any damage to the contents! Oh well....
So Starforge cried about the incorrect shipping due to their website showing the wrong information to the customer... Turns out they charge you twice as much tax by "accident" anyway. Spend $ on cable mod than shipping quality. PC possibility brick due to shipping. Great react content coming from OTK soon. lol
Super happy about the re-upload, and commitment to correcting mistakes, even though this time it actually wasn't your guys' fault. Also kudos on not commenting on Starforge's response, not sure it's something I would have been able to refrain from doing as they attempted to throw you guys under the bus. The cynical side of me also wonders if they would have made that post if the criticism came from someone who wasn't coming out of the biggest controversy of their career. I'll never know the inside baseball, but I can't help but feel like they were trying to shirk responsibility by preying on audiences readiness to jump all over LTT.
I once had a 800$ dell vostro laptop. After 4 years, and in a different country, I contacted dell because the NVIDIA chip that was in the laptop needed replacing. The tech guy came to my house and fixed it on the kitchen table! Massively impressed. The laptop lived for 8 years, when the power supply blew up in spectacular fashion.
When doing price comparisons people should remember that these oems get wholesale rates on all these parts so they definitely have larger profit margins than it appears
EDIT: Nevermind, it is a USB-C port, and doesn't look damaged (see @aikafuwa3768 's comment below) 29:37 that red USB port looks pretty mangled.. did they get one of the IO shield tabs in it? hard to tell. So on top of the shipping damage, a pretty big assembly fail.
from what i can see it kinda looks like a usb port. Edit: looked up the motherboard and was able to confirm that it is in fact a usb c port and does in fact look lik that out of the box via MSI's own website
My dad had a computer repair business in the 90s/early 00s and he always saved those Dell boxes to re-use for other stuff. I ended up with a couple of them when moving and they did not degrade for years! Crazy sturdy.
Bought a Skytech w/ Ryzen 5 & 3070 during 'the plague' and it would overheat right out of the box. Found the AIO watercooler's fan wasn't spinning at all; An anti-vibration rubber pad had fallen inside the fan and was jamming it. Cleared that and the PC would let me play for 2 weeks before showing overheating issues again; Hard locking up after playing games for 15 minutes & faster subsequently. Pushed it in the corner & went back to a HP Omen I got off woot that's never given me a problem. 3 months ago I bought a Cyberpower PC off Amazon. Due to family issues, I didn't set it up for 3 months. It worked for a SINGLE WEEKEND before it would no longer power up. They took 10 days to ship me a replacement GPU riser card, didn't solve the problem. It's now outside Amazon return period. Have to send a $2200 machine back to be refurbished instead of getting a direct replacement for a box that died in 2 days.
I bought a cyberpower Desktop and @ 13 mo old the Cpu mount broke and fried my CPU! So I tore it down and installed a new motherboard CPU , new power supple, ram and new GPU , I can run any game I want now @ 1440p and it still does not drop below 100 fps ! Love it
Dell being robust but highly proprietary goes back 25 years. They were the only company I ordered from when running my business and needed performance workstations. But I will never run them for my home rig due to the priority designs limiting upgrade ability. I tried to install a graphics card in my nephew's XPS, and we had to rig up a second PSU sitting on the floor. Complete jank that would be avoided by using a standard interface.
I purchased a IBuyPower (Cyberpower Brand) back in 2017. I7-7700k and a 1080. They shipped it with a faulty AIO, but now that its fixed its been a rock solid pc. Still plays anything at 1080p.
@LinusTechTips What's happening here? Way to loose viewership by not continuing a series. Id be ok if you gave an update on why its taking so long but ill think twice about getting invested in a series not knowing if ill live long enough to see the end. Lets get an update on the Part 3 pls.
@linustechtips as someone who used that expanding foam on the normal, you can buy a machine with a two drums of the chemicals and a roll of plastic. It allows you to make any size and cheaper.
I really love these secret shopper videos, and I love that you commented more on the sustainability/recycleability this time round but I'd really love to see it included as an actual category that scores points. I'm fortunate enough that sustainability is honestly higher on the list for me than price/performance. but I think its becoming higher and higher on other peoples lists too.
I think this would be great as long as they look deeper than just surface level if it did become a category. Thought at that point they're not only having to review the packaging but also educate people on why something "green" may not be ideal as well as why "greener" packaging IS important and not just "cost cutting". Might actually be great to see an entire video around electronics packaging and how it can contribute to ewaste explaining why certain packaging is or isn't a great idea in common scenarios.
It's funny too because I had an HP Omen system, a pretty good one at the time with 1070 and i7 something that I cant remember anymore, and I loved it. Never had any issues, took its parts out to build my sister a computer when I was buying new again. Was great! Glad to see them doing well enough here
@@discorddiscord2647starforge PC shipping fee issues, 300$ is total with tax not just shipping. This was not clear in the first upload. There is also a double charge of tax (new info from this vid)
@@discorddiscord2647it wasn’t specified that the 300bucks of shipping wasn’t just shiping but included tax and custom fee because it doesn’t say so on the invoice but only in cart on the website
The entire row of bubbles is popped because its got a perforation line through that row. Bubble wrap like that is very useful if used properly, with it securely wrapped around an item with bubbles facing inwards. I dont like the bubble wrap that you prefer, because it takes only one hole to flatten a whole row. You can only cut it to size in one dimension. It is less than ideal unless you have the exact width you need for your situation.
Starforge's email was sent Aug 24th and mentioned the issue was the result of a software update. Hopefully not too many but they did the right thing by sending out refunds to customers. Frankly, LTT could have noticed at that point that they just got a tax refund from their "shipping" cost and realized something was amiss then. But it's understandable that they didn't.
I now have 3! front panels for my fractal case... all 3 have defects... I give up and I give up on fractal I'm using the least offensive of the three... but CMON FRACTAL... Its beyond QC and obviously a problem with the machinery printing them out. It sucks to add another company to my mental "Avoid" list. Customer service is a solid b+ imo
