Thief 2 on GOG - gog.la/PraiseKarras T2Fix & Lite Links - www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=149669 Creative ALchemy for EAX - community.pcgamingwiki.com/files/file/28-creative-alchemy-universal/ THE LIST - docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_K3ziSxT9zcUUGCddS4sF1uNJTWHSbOwB1CQX2Rx4Uo Trilogy will hopefully be done by February's end.
It's worth mentioning that the 'dumb guard' voice that Mandy has pointed out in both reviews now, is also Stephen Russell. He was busy in this series. The guard with that voice is called Benny, and there's actually a little bit of a plot thread in how he keeps turning up in places on Garrett's path. Mostly in that he keeps getting fired from the last place because of Garrett's break-ins.
Funny you should say that....I bumped in to Benny last week at the gym. And let me tell you something, he's one of those people that wipes down the machines before and after he uses them. Don't let his grumbling voice fool you, he is a fine gentleman!
PSA: Turn off the fog on the life of the party mission. It's meant to be played at night. Having fog on turns it weirdly into some glaring foggy day that just feels off. The developers have said this is a bug from modern graphics cards and should be switched off.
I played this on an old windows 98 SE machine, pentium iii processor and a Voodoo3 3500 TV tuner card. I can attest that it’s not a “new graphics card” issue. The fog was always like this.
It's really interesting to see those old games with some genuinely rich and inspired artistic vision struggle against the technical confinements of their time. Medieval futurism is a really interesting concept. This would make a great remaster.
@@brennanchaudhry8925 I found Dishonored 2 with all the HUD turned off was about as close to the original thief games as you could get. Multiple ways thru a level, enough information given organically that you didn't need a mini map, good vertical sneaking, etc.
The difference between thief and Dishonored is that in Dishonored you had so many more ways to protect yourself so you felt alot more safe. In thief you feel more vulnerable throughout the whole game. The atmospheres are very different too I think
This review made me realize how much of Dishonored owes itself to Thief's existence. The Clockwork mansion and the Duke's Grand Inventor, Kirin Jindosh, especially.
@@kristianburger6329 Arkane loves LGS games, their biggest games (with the exception of Dark Messiah I guess) are directly inspired by certain Looking Glass games. Arx Fatalis - Ultima Underworld Dishonored - Thief Prey - System Shock 2 Yeah they have some ex-LGS people, but I don't think they did when they did Arx. Just a company design philosophy to make those kinds of games (which is awesome - we need more devs trying to carry on the Looking Glass legacy)
@@blingledongleflarfenjaeger8281Arkane absolutely had LGS staff on hand when they made Arx Fatalis. Paul Neurath had signed on with them to _work_ on a spiritual successor to Ultima in the first place. Also, Dark Messiah was originally Arx Fatalis 2, and most of the ex-LGS staff had left Arkane by the time of Dishonored 2.
Imagine my horror when after completing the first game I immediately launched into the second and the first guard I went to bonk of the head was wearing a metal helmet and it only stunned him. Really caught me off guard.
Not true. Some gaurds with metal helmets can be knocked out. Hell, I knocked out Cavador and he's wearing a scuba diving helmet with a full face respirator basically. I have a theory that you don't always have to club them over the head, but the back works also
My favourite part in the city part of that huge mission was probably the one guy complaining to his wife that he didn't get an invitation to the party ("I know dear, I know." was a great line) and in the latter half of the mission when you inspect the guest book you find out that his invitation got lost. Close second is probably the four archers arguing who engage in a 2 vs 2 TDM if you wait for a while.
My favorite is the inventor's attic, where his journal talks about him trying to launch people in rockets to the moon. He basically just blows them up.
"According to resistance spy Vi Moradi, a human would die after a couple of days without water. Though _she_ managed to stay alive after going 3 days without water on one occasion"
@@Intestine_Ballin-ism I just checked that up and it's fucking real, what the fuck? Looks like disney put that in since it takes place in their sequel era
13:42 Karras also apparently made Garret his eye. He mentiones that in one of his monologues in the last mission (all of which I've hear at least twice how long it took me).
So - the AI discovering you instantly thing is a bit of a strange mechanic and I believe it also can happen in Thief 1. Once an enemy has previously been in combat with you or been alerted to the maximum level, they'll sometimes not return back to the lower alert states and remain super vigilant. One of the changes of the AI having higher awareness is longer vision distance, wider view angles and the ability to ignore stuff like purposely playing dumb to give the player a chance to correct a mistake. Thus, the result is that they'll charge towards you the moment you enter this absurdly large view range/cone. I imagine this was to try and make the AI a bit more realistic (in the sense of - "why would an AI forget an intruder if he just fought him a few minutes ago?") but it's also one of those difficult balances in stealth game design where realistic isn't always fun.
AFAIK all AIs in both T1 and 2 do this when they have been alerted to maximum - 3rd level (=they saw you), they remain in this state for about 5 minutes. Can be identified by the guards not sneezing/mumbling funny as usual (they keep quiet), Haunts and zombies keep their 3rd alert sounds (the mad laughter in the case of Haunts) during this stage. Can get of course more complicated where AIs get regularly alerted from something critical in the environment (like visible blood stains or left bodies) or from each other (that's best described as an area effect). Some AIs in some missions can remain in this state permanently once they saw you but that seems to be a specific scripting/setting matter. BTW Haunts always change their sounds permanently once they saw you (or sometimes even when they only were in 2nd mode - searching for you) even when they cool down from the lurking mode (the "Join Usss" ditty begins)
Even The Mechanist Logo is the Adaptus Mechanicus Logo, just missing the skull in the middle and instead has a line. Mostly the same color scheme outside of the gold
@@MrSadisticLlama I'm now interested in knowing if a stealth game set in the 40K universe would even be possible. Only idea I can think of would be to play as the universe's luckiest Guardsman who managed to be the only survivor of an attack and is trying to use stealth to get out of enemy territory and find allies.
@@BloodRedFox2008 The Empirium has Death Cults which are similar to the Dark Brotherhood in TES and many of their assassins end up working for the Inquisition.
@@BloodRedFox2008 Dark Heresy, the 40k tabletop RPG where you play as acolytes of the Inquisition, can be very stealth oriented if the players choose that approach.
@@BloodRedFox2008 playing a thief in the 40k universe is definitely doable. You could probably recreate the Thief games in 40k. The planet is a techno-feudal world who's imperial governer has decided that he would become buddy buddy's with the Mechanicus after the local flora and fauna began dying out. Now the world has entered a new level of technological growth because it's becoming an industrial world. Instead of pagans you could set up either gene-stealers or even eldar that want the planet because it used to belong to them. Maybe the actual imperial governer is some kind of chaos heretic obsessed with technology that has a god complex(i.e. devoted to Tzeentch). You kill an Eldar Farseer by trapping him in an ancient device but later you must defeat the imperial governor because he found some archaetech that made the world develop even further. There, Thief and Thief 2 in 40k
Some great fan-made mission to try for Thief 2 --- Broken Triad, The Black Frog, Death's Cold Embrace, The Seven Sisters, A Night in Rocksburg (all 3 of them), Godbreaker, Malazar's Inscrutible Tower, Morbid Curiosity, Bad Debts, Disorientation, Into The Odd, Tales from the Cleft: Vandal, Tales from the Cleft: Ladytaker, Korrigans, Rose Cottage, Waterfront Racket, The Violent End of Duncan Malveine, Among Two Storms, Lord Alan's Factory, Deceptive Perceptions, Deceptive Perceptions 2: Phantasmagoria, A Better Tomorrow, Breaking The Stone, Eclipsed, Kingsbridge, The Spear of Destiny, Exile, Being Thief, CoSaS 2: Mission X, Evirath's Misery, Cryptic Realms, Nosferatu, Coaxing the Spirit, Saturio Returns Home, Hidden Agenda, Greyfeather Gems (1 & 2). There are so many great missions out there that I've probably missed a bunch.
You missed one of the most obvious mentions -- Thief 2X: Shadows of the Metal Age. And thanks for the recommendation, I was just thinking about looking up some more FMs to play.
@@IDSearcher i think it was from mandalore video about alpha centauri remake that wasn't a remake and actually bad called civilization beyond earth or something
Same. The only one I've ever played was Deadly Shadows, which used to be called the worst of the series. Enter Thief 4, now DS is amazing in comparison. :v
I think what I like the most about Thief 2 is the way the story development works really well to increase the challenges of thieving while not feeling out of place. There's more metal flooring, security cameras, robots and such and all this makes perfect sense with the industrial revolution going on. Nothing feels like it was added just to increase difficulty.
Thief 2 is mainly my favourite because it has the best missions. The warehouses, bank and the trip across town to get to the skyscraper are the peak of the series. But I also wish we got a bonehoard 2.0 or something.
I like those but also the police station and trail of blood (the only supernatural mission). There are quite a few 10/10 missions in TDP and DS too though
10:16 "So, naturally, you go 'Ha HAH!' Then you read a journal that someone's pet named Longdaddy..." Sounds like Marshall's story from _"Playing an RPG for the first time"._ "His beautiful little eyes...his kind spirit...." Hopefully it doesn't end up the same as that.
"Oh the tactical frog grenade" Never knew I wanted something so bad. Now I just some frogs, some duct tape and some grenades. And time. Soon my own green tide will wash over the world!
Evil anti-organic Mechanicus God-complex Droopy. Getting his show dropped by Cartoon Network was the last straw. After that, he went full on supervillain.
Overkill: "This is it. This is the end. Payday 2 has finalized and now has an ending. See you next time" Also Overkill: "So... like... imagine more DLCs? Isnt it cool?????!!!"
@@bipolarmadness5075 If you don't mind me asking since I'm not quite very familiar with the payday series. You mean to tell me that there was an actual ending to that game?
"I always wondered what happened to him to make him hate life that much." I could be wrong, but perhaps Karras nearly got killed when the Trickster's army destroyed the Hammerite Temple, and that's why he's hostile to organic life. Karras seems to be part cyborg, so maybe his body got mangled by the Pagan creatures when they invaded. I once thought his weird voice was the result of his mouth and vocal cords getting messed up by his cybernetic reconstruction, but perhaps he always sounded like that before the attack. I used to have trouble taking Karras seriously as a villain, because the weirdness of his voice distracted me from the words he said. He sounded more like a parody super villain to me at first. Now, I think Karras' character and voice are ingenious. I think it's brilliant that the developers chose to have Karras sound like a creepy fusion of Truman Capote and Droopy Dog. I think the Karras' voice overs in the final mission add a great menacing atmosphere, and are akin to the taunts of SHODAN and The Many in the System Shock series. The last mission is immense, and you're given very few resources to work with, but at least you can blackjack the Combat Bots into submission (albeit with 18 blows) to make up for the lack of water and fire arrows you can buy. Once you beat that mission on Expert, the feeling is extremely satisfying, especially when you know that you've succeeded in beating Karras in his own scheme. Using Garret's abilities to destroy or slip by Karras' advanced security is also highly satisfying.
Mandy, you gotta do them fan missions. Give them some love. Show people who might not be aware of those fan missions how to install and play them, so that their community can grow and the Thief games continue to live on with new fans and players.
@@matthew1882 The TTLG forums have a step by step guide to installing your game, updating it and getting it ready to play fan missions. The basic points are... 1. Install Thief 2 2. Install T2fix 3. Make a folder to put downloaded FMs in. DON'T MANUALLY UNZIP THEM. 4. Enable Fmsel 5. Point Fmsel to that folder you made in step 3. FMsel should now be able to see any FMs you put in that step 3 folder and it's as easy as clicking play FM in FMsel from there. As a side note I believe conventional wisdom says to not put Thief in program files or program files (x86). Windows puts special protections on them and will often block third party programs (like T2fix) that try to install things in there. I usually get my fan missions from Taffers Paradise but Thief Guild might be a little more comprehensive and has a more modern look.
@Jason Fenton I always hate that "don't put shit in Program Files" rule. If a program demands that, I ignore it and instead dive into the folder permissions to remove those default protections.
Thief II is one of my favorite games of all time. It perfectly refined everything that made the first game great, and tossed out the stuff about it that sucked. No more role-playing as an exterminator and exorcist in a game called "Thief"! I do miss Garret's spring heels, though, as one of my favorite things to do in the game is taunt guards. Run around bapping them in the face with my blackjack, getting a whole group to chase me, then jump up on a light fixture or torch and watch them stand around and yell at me. Then I pull out my bow, they go running for help, and I jump down and chase them like Han Solo chasing that squad of stormtroopers through the Death Star. I am the Midnight Taffer.
Ah, Thief 2. One of those games that completely absorbed me in the mid teens because of its semi open world and dynamic AI. I wasn't into storylines and cutscenes in games but Thief did it so well- so polished and understated that it worked fantastically.
@@SpunkMayo Well I did actually try to make it sound a bit different. But I also gotta admit that it might be partly due to me being not a native speaker. Might you be telling me, how the sentence would be textbook-correct? I'd legit like to know 😊
"The Metal Age" happens to be the name of a song by the Swedish heavy metal band HammerFall, ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-HWaA9CuUrVQ.html
Karras is one of my all-time favourite game villains and that voicework was a huge part of what made writing so effective. He is a real wolf in a sheep's skin - behind that warm, lisping voice of a parish priest is a dangerous enemy, who leverages his religious, technical and soft power advantages masterfully. He completely dominates hearts and minds of Mechanist brotherhood, entices the nobles with parties and baubles and with bribery and blackmail gets City Guard to become an effective power behind his horrible plan - and while no one is wiser to it, it remains believable. While we only see him in the very end (and optionally), through his voice and writing he is a constant presence through the game and letting him choke on his own corrosive poison is extremely satisfying. Seriously, he's up there with SHODAN.
"You wouldn't steal a car." Is embeded in one of my favorite Thief memories... This one guy boasted about how he stole a car to watch this movie when this popped up, talked the entire half hour of the movie until comercial break, when I stepped outside guy was being wrestled out of his popcorn and soda by the cops. With that to you my steel brother I reply: "Fire is The Builder's purification. Blessed are those who are born of the fire. The flesh is sinful. Woe to those who are born of it. Praise Karras!"
Looking Glass games are major inspiration for Arkane studio, like they inspiration for Arx Fatalis in Ultima Underworld, which was more technically impressive than Doom, for me at least...
I caught that too. I always felt kinda bad for Jindosh. He's a douche-bag but he's really only helping Delilah because he's interested in pushing the boundaries of science and invention. He is fiercely intelligent but you get the vibe that he's incredibly lonely. An environmental detail that always struck me is that Jindosh had this grandiose clockwork bedroom complete with a silvergraph studio but when you enter his lab you find a stretcher bed and blanket tucked away in a corner and you realize that he sleeps in the lab surrounded by his machines. The only target I really felt sorry for to be honest.
There's a lot of parallels between Thief and Dishonored in general. For another example, there's a similar change in the primary antagonists between first and second game. In Thief we first deal with the magical and chaotic enemy (Trickster) then moving on to technology and order (Mechanists). In Dishonored it's reversed, first it's the totalitarian regime based on Sokolov's technology, then a coven of witches.
I had never heard of Mandalore until about a month ago and RU-vid never put him in my recommendations. I can't believe the world got away with such a horrendous crime for so long, as I'm now furiously binging all of his content and completely addicted. Keep up the incredible work Mandalore, I'm loving hearing all of your takes. xoxo
When the Thief Gold video dropped: "Oh cool, Mandalore released a video on Thief and said he'd make one for Thief II which I like much more, gotta remember to check back in a month or two." >Releases video today WHAT THE FUCK
This was my favorite thief game, honestly. It was so entertaining and the city is so interesting, i really like the platforming. And the whole mechanist plan, the way it was revealed bite by bite, also cool. I still remember that Karras was actually the one to give Garret his fake eye (after he lost it to the Woodsie lord). And Garret actually had to side with the hammers to stop this crazy sect. But at least the crazy sect lets girls into their group, but I guess old fashioned hammers had to be the good guys here.
When I was getting off my chair to go to the toilet during one of my sessions I made a long step in order to avoid the wooden floor and step onto the carpet instead.
@@doommaker4000 FPS shooters, 3rd person action games, and racing games per example do so much better with great sounds. Nothing worse than an anemic shotgun or an annoying attack noise in a game. Music is great, but some games and movies do better without music entirely. It's usually used too much, too loud, and at innapropriate times. Silent Hill uses music amazingly, as does Doom and many other titles, but those games would suffer far more if the sound, visual style, or gameplay was worse than if the music were cut.
if you really think about it, a lot of skyrim seems more or less inspired by thief rather than other rpgs or even earlier TES games. Dwemer/mechanists, stealth archery, object physics, thieves guild is closer to keepers than the earlier thieves guilds...
8:25 I had a hard time in the cathedral on the eavesdrop mission, as you can see, your light indicator gem is glowing, in this game is what it counts, plus the npcs have a 180 degrees instant turning ( same from thief 1 and system shock 2 ). Anyway, awesome video of a even more awesome game. Thank you!!
I see you Mandy, putting in Sewer Surfin' to make me think I'm still going crazy. One day it won't stop when I pause the video, but for now I'm lucky my grip on reality is strong enough that it does.
Thief 1 and 2 were the best games I have ever played in my life, the atmosphere of this game is incredible, both games are is a masterpiece, congratulations to Looking Glass Studios
Wow, I LOVED Casing the Joint and the followup - I often, to this day, talk the two-mission approach up as one of the highlights of the Thief series. Just goes to show how subjective the experience was, I guess.
Another reason is to love this game is the secrets that can be found - they're hidden well and it's always a treat when you discover them. Especially the hidden passages within a mission. I still remember finding all of them in the police station mission and managing to go through the entire building just using the secret passages in no time.
A lot of people who do voice acting work don’t get a big break.. perhaps this is there first shot and despite their good work they don’t get any recognition
the gamesphere prop he uses at 4:04 is actually a cd player/fm radio device called a boomball that was used as a prop in the original drake and josh, just that the gamesphere logo was printed on top of the boomball logo
7:15 Ayy! B) Out of all of this, I'm just glad to see Benny is still finding employment. I'm sure Garrett probably keeps getting him fired from all of his security jobs for incompetence but it's not his fault!
*Soft Turtles in Time plays in the background* This is why I cheer for joy when you drop a video. There are so many layers in the jokes, music, video and pictures. Thank You for being You.
When I played them the first time, I strongly preferred the Metal Age. After years, replaying them made me appreciate the Dark Project more, if nothing else, it has more variety
I've always regarded Thief: The Dark Project as the Heart, and Thief II: The Metal Age and Thief: Deadly Shadows to be the lungs. You really need all three of them.
@@basic5926 it's the most bare bone easiest joke you can make about a guy reviewing a thief game, you really think that guy owns the joke? Didn't even see his comment so there's that too.
About the AI. I noticed that if you 'alert' them to where they try to search for you they'll become more aware of your presence. To the point where they could see you in advanced darkness a few feet away.
