I haven’t read it but I think The Cold is in Her Bones by Peternelle van Arsdale is inspired by Medusa. It’s been a while since I read it but I remember Dealing with Dragons by Patricia C. Wrede having great dragons. Most of the characters are dragons, they speak, they have their own society, and there are both good and bad dragons. It’s a really fun middle grade series!
Jessie Burton is doing a Medusa retelling that I can't wait to get my hands on! I believe it will be aimed at a younger audience so it won't go too much into her story but Burton has said she wants to tell Medusa's story properly and how her book will discuss toxic masulinity and consent so that younger readers can learn Medusa's actual story.
I think you'd love Longbourne - it's a reimaging of Pride and Prejudice from the perspective of the servants. Not exclusively a romance, but has some romantic plotlines. It does a really fantastic job of blending a familiar story with new characters who are well rounded and convincing!
Courtney Milan's Brother Sinister series focuses on the mode middle class of Historical romance- they're also really good at exploring class, gender, sexuality etc. Also, my favourite dragon book is Dragon Bound by Thea Harrison- the entire Elder Races series is one of my all time favourites- absolutely would recommend!
Your dragon request had me looking up a book I loved but haven't read in years, Dragonsbane by Patricia C Wrede - excellent female interspecies friendship, plays with fantasy tropes in a really fun way. Remember grabbing it off my sister's bookshelf and thinking the main character was the most badass princess ever!
The first time I read about Medusa, it was by Robert Graves and she was Poseidons monster daughter in that version so I only recently heard about the one with transformation. I agree with you completely on the romance ! It's so difficult to find non nobility historical romance. One of the popular tropes that I HATE is when a radical antimonarchist falls for someone with a title and goes against everything they believe in because #notalldukes I guess. A little light mischief is the only ff one I read and it was super cute. Hither Page (by the same author) has a lesbian couple as side characters who are a part of my favorite trope in literature. But unfortunately they are the best part of that book. Eta: The Effluent Engine by NK Jemisin is also ff and brilliant. You can find it online for free. I can't believe I forgot that one. There are 2 mm romances with working class couple that I liked: Wanted a Gentleman, and A Gentleman never keeps score. They both deal with a bit heavier topics and have such great characters. For curvier character, Bet me by Jennifer Crusie is very cute. I just read Gideon the Ninth and while there is no romance as such, the MC is a lesbian and a delight. I adored that book, so good. I'm sorry this comment is so long, and that I can't rec any talking dragons but I had to comment.
Have you heard of the Alpennia series by Heather Rose Jones? It's a f/f historical fantasy romance that I really loved and I think would be right up your alley. I've never seen a magic system quite like it before because it's based off of religious miracles and basically focuses around the Catholic Church. But in a fictional European country that's kind of squeezed between France, Italy, and Austria. It's just really unique, the romances are absolutely fantastic, and I love how they kind of build a society of sapphic women as the series go on and they kind of gather together because like is attracted to like socially. I heard about it from a random tumblr post and have seen literally no one else talk about it ever but it is some good shit.
I recently read His Majesty's Dragon by Naomi Novik and it perfectly fits the bill for good sentient dragons. And it's a whole nine book series so there's so much Dragon content to devour. I promis you will fall in love with the main dragon Temeraire almost immediately.
Mercedes Lackey 500 Kigdoms series has a few books that have sentient dragons: One Good Knight, Fortune' s Fool (I think), and The Sleeping Beauty (side character). Although all of the books in this series are hilarious fairy tale retellings, so I recommend all of them.
Have you read The Invisible Library series? It has sentient dragons, though they also shape-shift, so the main dragon character is usually in human form... For curvy women in historical romance, I really enjoyed Sweet Disorder by Rose Lerner. There's an election plot, too, that I think you would enjoy! The hero is from an aristocratic background, but it is much more set in the heroine's working class world.
You've probably already read this, but Tipping the Velvet by Sarah Waters is a historical fiction set in England in the late 1800s with a f/f romance. The book isn't strictly a romance, but it's really phenomenal, and the main character is not wealthy, either.
Alyssa Cole has two excellent novellas: one w a heroine who has a disability (Can’t Escape Love) & a f/f (Once Ghosted, Twice Shy). The Highwayman by Kerrigan Byrne fits your bill for working class historical, if memory serves. Beverly Jenkins writes incredible American historicals centered around Black American experiences. I also think you’d love Not Quite A Husband by Sherry Thomas. Second chance historical between an estranged wife (doctor) & husband (math professor). He travels to India where she runs a clinic. Sarah Maclean has some newer series that - while not working class always - are definitely not ballroom historicals. Check out her Bareknuckle Bastards series or The Rules of scoundrels. For f/f, if you like contemporary, try Edge of Glory by Rachel Spangler (set around Olympics with between a skier and snowboarder!) or The Wrong Woman by Cass Lennox.
Different kind of romance (not strictly ‘working class’ romance): “As you desire” by Connie Brockway, an “old” one, probably one of my favourites, set in Egypt, late 19th (If I remember correcly), and arqueologist-type of heroine and hero; it also has some kind of ‘disability’ in it. And it’s funny and witty, Tessa Dare’s style. Also, a more angsty but different romance is “ Always to remember” by Lorraine Heath, set after the Civil War between two ordinary people. It deals with grieve but with interesting topics such as pacifism. Beautiful. Similar vibe has “Conor’s way” by Laura Lee Guhrke, or, also by her, “The Charade”. Love your reviews!
If you read middle grade, my son loves the Wings of Fire series by Tui T. Sutherland. He started reading them years ago and at almost 16, he still eagerly awaits each new release. All the characters are sentient dragons and the series is into its third five book arc. The first book is The Dragonet Prophecy.
For curvy heroines, Talia Hibbert is a must. Most, if not all, of her m/F books feature one. I just finished Brazen and the Beast by Sarah MacLean which has a curvy heroine. I liked that one. I love a good curvy heroine in my books. You could also check out White Whiskey Bargain by Jodie Slaughter. It's contemporary, about a marriage between two people from rival moonshining families in Kentucky. Lastly, I'll recommend you my favorite historical romance, Devil in Winter by Lisa Kleypas. The heroine is curvy with a stutter, and her dad has a gambling club. But, the hero has a bit of an arc as he's the villain in the book before this, so I highly recommend reading this series, the Wallflower series, in order. Lisa Kleypas is amazing. For a good character with disability in a historical romance, check out Dearest Rogue by Elizabeth Hoyt. It's set in the Georgian era, between a blind lady and her guard. Jonathan French has his Lot Lands series about half-orcs. I'll warn you, it's pretty dark. For working-class people in historicals, check out Listen to the Moon by Rose Lerner. Feel free to ignore this, but I wrote a road trip romance featuring two ordinary people entitled The Reader and The Road.
A book I absolutely loved was 'The Flax Flower' by Amanda McLean. It's a historical romance novel based in 17th century rural Scotland, a love story between a daughter of a miller and a trumpeteer for a local laird. The whole plot is based on an old traditional ballad and the author writes in a local dialect, it is written so beautifully! I thought this could fit your criteria of non-elite love stories and the fact that it's by a Scottish writer might be an extra selling point for you. I think you can find it on Amazon! xx
There is a LotR fanfic named "Splint" by Helena Markos, it features good and complex Orks and a lot of LGBT representation, you might like it. It is one of the best pieces of fanfiction that I ever read and better than many regularly published books.
You should look into a book called "the cold in her bones" by Peternelle Van Arsdelle. It's a Medusa retelling. I myself haven't read it, but I have heard good things about it. It is YA.
A historical working class romance novel suggestion could be, “To ride a white horse” by Pamela Ford. I haven’t read it yet but its on my shelves and sounds really intriguing. Its set in Ireland during the Great famine in the 1800s. The protagonist, Kathleen Deacey faces the devestating choice of leaving Ireland to find work in America or risk staying in her beloved homeland but dying there as a result. Despising the English for refusing to help Ireland, she crosses the Atlantic determined to save her family. When in America, however, she is forced to confront her prejudices and accept the help of an English whaling captain.
More curvy women in any kind of genre, I would love to see more in young adult, even when now we have more female representation as more strong female characters in ya most of them are described as thin or athletic when the average of the girls are between a size 16-18
Listen to the Moon by Rose Lerner is a romance between a valet/butler and a maid! (Also, the female main character is bi!) It's the third in a series set in a small town with really interesting world-building and exploration of class beyond the typical London-set aristocracy romances.
Okay, second try after losing my last reply. 😐😂 Definitely check out Margaret Weis' Mistress of Dragons, first in a trilogy that has one of my favorite takes on dragons, as well as a f/f romance which is... complicated. It starts out like a standard "protect the realm from the evil dragons" thing but don't be fooled. Of course the Dragonlance and Death Gate Cycle series which she coauthors with Tracy Hickman both have sentient dragons, but not quite as central. Still recommend both series, though. Most of all, the Sundering duology by Jacqueline Carey has a couple of very sentient dragons, as well as disabled characters and good orc-type characters. It pulls from mythology and classic stories, especially Middle Earth, but from the perspective of the villains. She also wrote a retelling of the Tempest you probably heard of already, called Miranda and Caliban, as well as a book with a disabled main character, Starless. (Disclaimer: haven't read those last two yet.) Oh, and Aliette de Bodard has a series set in an alternate Paris with very different takes on dragons and angels. House of Sundering Flames I believe is the most recent book. Hopefully I haven't left a very long reply recommending things you already knew about. 😂🤞
As far as historical romance from a servant's point of view, I'd recommend Alyssa Cole's Loyal League series! I've only read the first in the series so far but it focuses on two spies during the American Civil War, both spying on the Confederates, one as a slave, one as a confederate soldier.
Good clever dragons: they make an appearance in Tamora Pierce’s Wild Magic, and then they return in the fourth book of that quadrilogy: The Realms of the Gods. They definitely meet your requirements. Also Anne Maccaffrey but you know about her already I think but they only exist in partnership with a rider.
If you havent already read these, you might enjoy The Summer of Jordi Perez (and the Best Burger in Los Angeles) by Amy Spalding. It's a YA f/f romance with a fat lead. also, the Dealing with Dragons (series) by Patricia Wrede has they type of dragon you'd like, although the humans are bigger characters. It's YA and features a non-princessy princess who makes her own destiny.
Definitely more female protagonists who are greater than 120 lbs and a size 4!! I agree when there is a reference made to her flat stomach I clock that. Also because of you I am super interested in hearing the full story of Medusa so I can’t wait for more recommendations about that.
I never see Daniel Abraham's books mentioned on booktube but I do recommend the Dagger and the Coin series, starting with The Dragon's Path. they definitely fit the good intelligent dragons wish :)
Aha I get that. I've always watched people with different taste to me. It's the whole reason I started reading romance to be honest. I never thought I would but these booktubers I followed raved about it.
I would also love to discover more Medusa retellings. And for the longest time, I've also been looking for a good retelling of the Melusine myth. Unfortunately, I've yet to find any :( Here, The World Entire sounds really good though and I'm definitely adding it to my wishlist ^^
If you’d like more working class romances, try Zola. E.g., Germinal. Not always a happy ending. Maybe a little gritty, depending on what you mean by romance.
Beverly Jenkins is the queen of US set HR usually about 'normal' people and would fit your requirements. Alyssa Cole also has some fantastic novellas and a trilogy of superb full-length HR books about spies in the civil war. TFS :)
Have you read the historical romances by Courtney Milan and Beverly Jenkins? All of Beverly Jenkins' books deal with non-gentry Black characters, and Courtney Milan have written about suffragettes and upwardly mobile characters in time periods ahead of the Regency/Georgian era.
This is a kind of shot in the dark recommendation for an all dragon characters book, but you might like Gork The Teenage Dragon by Gabe Hudson. Gork is an outcast dragon living in a galactic conquerer society of dragons. After their stint at the dragon academy where they are trained to be fierce and domineering, young dragons must set out to conquer their first planet. Gorks only strength is a bit of a skill for epic poetry and he is basically destined to fail his mission. He has only one friend a cyborg dragon who is also an outsider in school. The book has its good points (the concept alone is very cool) but is very cheesy and kind of gross at parts (gork is after all a teenager) and didn't build the plot quite as well as I had hoped, but is a fun entertaining read. 🤷♀️
I would love to see curvy characters in any genre. A lot of times when there is a curvy character the premise is about body issues, the same for queer or disability rep. Would just love it if they were simply a part of the world and not highlighted as something to be "dealt with." Also if you don't mind reading children's books, the Wings of fire series by Tui Sutherland has an all dragon cast. If you don't mind shapeshifter dragons, I can highly recommend the Elder Races series by Thea Harrison.
I'd love to see more Medusa stories too! I just recently read Here, The World Entire on your recommendation and I really, really enjoyed it. I'd love a wider variety in Greek myth retellings in general, like... the Trojan war is so overrepresented, and I'd love to see more variety (I would personally love to see more books about Ariadne, and I'd give anything for a book about Dionysos). Regarding Medusa, though, I don't think it's quite accurate to say that the "original" story is a rape narrative. There are of course many different versions of the story, as always when it comes to the Greek mythology. The popular version of the Medusa story that you're talking about, where she's a beautiful maiden raped by Poseidon, punished by Athena and turned into a monster comes from Ovid's metamorphoses. If you look further back, Medusa is portrayed more as a simple monster. In these earlier versions, she is one of three gorgon sisters, along with Sthenno and Euryale, children of Phorkys and Keto, parents of a whole host of other monsters, including Skylla, Ekhidna and Ladon. This is the version you'll find for example in Hesiod's Theogony. While Medusa is described as the only mortal one of her sisters here, there's no mention of her being born human, there's no mention of Athena, and there's no mention of her being raped by Poseidon. In fact, all it says in regard to Poseidon is: "Poseidon, he of the dark hair, lay with one of these, in a soft meadow and among spring flowers." This is also, interestingely, mirrored in artistic portrayals of Medusa. Older, more archaic portraits of Medusa are more monstrous and ugly, with wide mouths and sharp tusks, tongue sticking out, sometimes she's even bearded, and she often has wings. Over time, her face becomes more human, to the point where in Roman mosaics she's portrayed with a normal, conventionally pretty, face, with the only monstrous features being the snakes in her hair and a small pair of wings on her forehead. Sorry, that got really long, haha, I just think it's such an interesting topic. I do agree with all of your other points essentially, and I want a lot of the same things (although I personally do enjoy non-talking, monstrous dragons, and don't really care for orchs, but to each their own!). I don't read a lot of romance myself, and I pretty much only really read queer romance when I do (whether that's F/F or M/M or stories that include aces or trans or NB characters, etc.), but a lot of the points you bring up are still things I'd love to see more of, regardless of genre. Actually, something I'd really love to see more of myself is poly relationships, especially in the fantasy genre. It's something I don't think I've ever read myself but would really love to. One book that comes to mind, both in terms of queer and disability rep is Sword Dance by A.J. Demas. It's a M/M historical fantasy romance featuring a disabled ex-soldier and a eunuch in a fictional setting inspired by ancient Greece. It also touches on topics like gender identity and inequality, sexual trauma, PTSD, nationalism and a bunch of different topics. It's not perfect, but I think it's definitely worth a read.
I think my point is more that the only time she gets a story is when she is raped. The other references are brief and assume knowledge on the reader or observers part of the art. The first time we hear an actually full narrative about Medusa is Ovid’s version. I know what you mean though. It also still disturbs me that when the longest and most popular like you mention ancient version involves rape she is almost always sexualised or painted as a ‘man eater’ in pop culture. Makes me queasy :(. Thanks for the other recommendations.
Have you tried The Wee Free Men by Terry Pratchett, clever, comedic fantasy and the fairies and fairy realm are central to that series (that's book one) with romance featuring. It's not my favourite but loads of people also love Every Heart a Doorway although that I expect you've heard of or tried aha. But you're right - that is not easy to find!
@@JeansThoughts yes I've read both! I love the wee free men so much! And the wayward children series is beautiful! Its a difficult one to find, I'm always on the hunt x
You should give The Mere Wife by Maria Dahvana Headley a try, it’s a Beowulf retelling set in suburbia told from the mothers POV, not exactly what you were asking for but it was one of my favorite books in 2019, it also has a LGBTQ relationship. Eoin Colfer just came out with a book about a sentient dragon called Highfire, I haven’t read it yet but it looks really good
I know you put down Fingersmith but I think Tipping the Velvet by Sarah Waters might work better for your f/f historical fiction craving! Also, I was wondering if you knew the "Flight of Dragons" movie? It's one of my all time favourites and it's a classic fantasy story with talking dragons.
I think The Queen of the Tearling has a curvy main character but there's some body morphism involved in that story so it changes throughout the series. And for non-fantasy I loved Dumplin by Julie Murphy, such a good book about body positivity and very unexpected for me.
Ok, for the good orcs, there's an old series by Stan Nicholls - Bodyguard of Lightning seems to be the first one - that I loved as a teenager. The main characters are all orcs and they're pretty much saving the day. It is definitely high fantasy and very adult with some weird torture-sex-scenes, if I remember correctly... Well, I liked it. :D
Hey ! The book the last namsara talks about story telling and story hungry dragons with their own personality;) that being said they could have had more space in the novel in my opinion 😅
I forget if you've read it or if I've recommended it before (if so, sorry!!!) but The Wicked Cometh is historical female female romance, as a side to a grim dark murder mystery. Personally, I agree about needing more books with disability rep. Especially chronic pain, so I could see myself in a book just once. Also, books about poly relationships that don't centre around just sex. But maybe that is reaching for the moon. *-sigh-*
I haven't read it (it's on my TBR) but the protagonist of Get a Life Chloe Brown has chronic pain if romance interests you ^_^. And I haven't read the Wicked Cometh no but that description makes me want to more.
Have you read the invisible library by Genevieve Cogman? That has really intelligent dragons who fight for order against the fae who fight for chaos but it’s not like the dragons are wholly good or the the fae bad. The library is the in between and they are a multi world organisation that gather books to make those worlds more stable.
There are dragons in Genevieve Cogman's The Invisible Library series... but I'm not sure you're looking for that type of dragons 🤷🏻♀️🐉 would love to hear your opinion on the books, though, if you ever choose to pick them up :)
Maybe you would like The City of Dreaming Books by Walter Moers. The main character is a dragon who is a famos author... and it is also about a city of books :-)
Jessie Burton has written/is writing a medusa retelling, I think for the ya market, that explores sexual assault and rape culture (I heard her talking about it as she talked about the influence the Harvey Weinstein scandal had on her depiction of Zeus as a character) so I'm very excited for that to come out (either this year or next I think) and with regards to working class historical romance have you tried The Telling by Jo Baker? I found it a little predictable in places (although maybe that's just me) but still really enjoyed it and would recommend!
regarding books with all characters dragons: there is a romance book series with the men all "dragons". they appear human but change into dragons. obviously each book one of the dragon finds a female human to.... love 😂
@@blue_legume2237 the series is called dragonfury series and it's by Coreene Callahan. they are quite fun and a bit smutty, you just have to suspend some disbelief 😂 if you want to, i'd love to hear your thoughts about them
Interesting how different dragon preferences there are. I don't mind dragons not being sentient but I dislike dragons subservient to humans for example the idea of dragon-riding. Humans riding sentient dragons are to me just the most difficult to accept. It feels extremely anthropocentric to me, having dragons event sentient ones be subservient to humans.
More fantasy books where romantic love is not one of the main motivators. Friendship, family, fighting a regime that is bad for the people... I would really like more books where authors didn't go for the easy solutions/motivators like "he did it for love." I'd also like to see more books where the main character "fights for what's right" and as a reader you're left wondering if it was really the right thing to do. Kind of 'the greater good' may be 'the greater evil'. Also I want consequences. All of the consequences. Show me what happened to his family and his town when the prince killed the farmer. Show me what happened to a village after the vikings raided it. That's a bit related to what you want in historical romance, but I want it in fantasy. And I want the good orcs, and the half orcs, and the talking dragons too. And lgbtqia+ characters in fantasy.
You should 100% read Naomi Kritzer's duology starting with Fires of the Faithful - it is basically all of these! Queer but not romance focused at all. Unclear who is right or wrong/a rebellion that has the danger of going evil itself. And literally devoted villages and how they recover.
the Heather wells series by Meg Cabot is a mystery series With a fat protagonist. No big deal by Bethany rutter. Is YA contemporary fat rep. Five hundred Kingdoms by Mercedes lackey has intelligent dragons. The stepsister scheme by jim c hines has lesbian rep in fantasy. Personally I would like: a love story where the two parts are "normal" looking and not drop dead georgeus both of them or one of them. a protagonist that is "avarage" neither a genius nor stupid. Seems like "every" character is amazingly intelligent or dumb. I miss characters that are none of those.
The how to train your dragon books are good. They show dragons tha are capable of being good and are intelligent. The dragons have their own language but there are dragons that speak English
JEAN, you really need to check out Outlander. It is scifi/fantasy/historical fiction/historical romance that follows Claire, a nurse who has travelled back in time to 1740's and meets and falls in love with Jamie (a Scottish man who is basically hiding and is on the run from the redcoats, and has lost his home and his parents and never really has enough money, or any money, throughout the series.) its a beautiful series and i am up to book 6. (there are currently 8 books publish and book 9 planned to come out this year. Book 10 will eventually be released.
