Brad this feels like you were telling my story. I felt called to be a WL at 13. All I felt like I “should” do was work in a church. I went to school to study worship leadership but came out of it feeling robbed. I also got sick in the middle of schooling and had to take 3 years off. All of my friends had jobs in ministry and I was jealous because I was behind so I took the first job that was offered to me without vetting the church or the pastor. The pastor wound up being verbally abusive and that “ministry” about cost me my marriage. A wise person told me this, “your ability to be in ministry or to be a pastor or have a pastoral mindset does not depend on if a church is at the top of your paycheck”.
If I have an unoffendable spirit, living as a living sacrifice I can’t be “taken advantage of” by servicing in another area. I’m not doing it for even my church, just for Jesus. Servicing only on the platform can leave us disconnected. Doing other tasks is important for platform servers. Do things people don’t see, people don’t really see the importance of and it’ll keep us humble. But never do it to make a point, show who you are or what you can do. Do it because Jesus took every sin on his back carried the cross to the top of Golgotha and died for us. He asked us to do the same. I understand too maybe not every environment has a culture that cares for people too. Here in Australia, no one’s really paid for worship positions except the worship pastor, if you have one. I 3 services a weekend frequently, work another full time job. Ministry isn’t easy, the joy of the lord sustains. Bless you all
Seems it’s certainly a difference in culture, yes. I was most certainly taken advantage of. I would call out of my paying job to ‘serve’ (it wasn’t serving, it was work that I actually didn’t need to do or be a part of). And the prospect of being full-time was dangled in front of me like a carrot. It was borderline abuse.
@@worshiptutorials crazy... That's a real shame hey. It's just wild things can be that way. That's a clear losing site of Jesus and his character. Sorry to hear... Glad you guys have such a great thing going now! WT is great. Thanks for sharing!
Really insightful dialogue here. I can somewhat relate as my son went to a great college, and served as PT WL for a while but is not doing that professionally any more. It is such a transient type of position and even in a healthy church the job description can be very vague. I think Jesus also wants us to be wise about our time and seeking a return on investment is perfectly normal and part of how we all live. We probably simply invest wrong sometimes. . It is not a sin to say no to protect from physical, emotional, and spiritual burnout. The best ministries are keen to see the signs of this in their staff - whether paid or volunteer.
Thanks for sharing Bradford. I'm wondering if getting a degree from bible college and possible seminary would open more doors . Some churches require worship leaders to be pastors, which may be a bit extreme, but that's the reality. At the same time, those churches who have that kind of requirement may actually lose out on when they people who are musically gifted, are grounded in faith and also can lead well, but can not hire them because they don't meet the "academic or ordained" credentials.
I really do love and appreciate you guys. Been watching and learning from you guys for almost 10 years now. I was 13-14 years old. From the bottom of my heart, thank you.
I have to disagree a little. I don't think most churches are looking to "take advantage" of people's free labor. My experience is that most churches suffer from a lack of volunteers so the people who ARE willing get piled on because there is no one else to do it and there is no money to pay someone to do it. This is precisely why I've been leading worship for free for 18 years and will continue to do it until someone else steps up to do it. Most churches cannot possibly afford to pay everyone. I think it's a lot about attitude: will I allow myself to feel taken advantage of or will I decide that I'm going to do whatever it takes to make Christ's church succeed?
What you are sharing is your experience. What I am sharing is mine. And lots of other people’s. Neither is invalid so no need to disagree here. Re your quip on attitude: I mentioned taking time off work to be at church events and not getting paid by either entity for it. And I was expected to do it. That’s not attitude. That’s borderline abuse.
Colossians 3:23-24 (KJV) 23 And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men; 24 Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ.
I loved your podcast, it was so sincere and honest, the scripture was not meant as a criticism at all, just as an encouragement, keep up the good work, God bless.
This is a great video. I love the internship idea. As someone on staff at a church you MUST create a healthy balance. I would love to have someone that is passionate about Jesus and seeing his people come in relationship with him. Love it, love it, love it!!!
The thing with a lot of WL also is that they want to be the next CCM "star," or either Coldplay or U2. Being humble and blooming where God plants 🪴 you is vital. I tried to be a "rock star" while playing in the church band it ended in missed chords, a dry throat, and absolute fear. Why were others able to play and sing happily, right next to me onstage, but I wasn't? The difference was that they did it for the Lord, and i did it for myself. Never again. Now I play for Christ, and I no longer have the delusion of stardom - because the only stars there are - are in the sky... Lord, forgive me for my wasted years... 🙏
first! Just some thoughts I've had and wanted to share. A lot of this may be therapeutic for me to share out loud but maybe it resonates with you someone. Either way, I hope it's helpful!
Thank you so much for this video. I'm 21 and have been struggling to know what to do or how to go about it. Our pastor has started an internship to train the next pastors of our church and im in it, but I have been really worried about if could even get a job at any other church without any college education. This was very reassuring and helpful to me to know what to look out for. Thank you
Well I’m a pastor who works a full time business and pastors as a volunteer for the last 3 years which is the case for a majority of pastors. Specifically if a church is small (which is the majority) and it can’t pay for a worship leader. I’ve also been in worship ministry for the last 30 years and was glad to do so without being paid believing the Lord would bless in other ways. Guess I’m old school and really don’t see the young worship leaders having the same kind of attitude or values. I’m ok with paid pastor and worship leader positions but not ok with a entitlement mentality when it comes to service for God. People who are called and say yes to the will of God will do it if they are paid or not. PS I get what your say though and this isn’t a dig on your story at all. I appreciate what you guys do! Blessings
You’re saying you get what I’m saying but the majority of your comment leads me to believe you do not 😅 there’s a difference between being willing to serve and getting taken advantage of!
@@worshiptutorials Sorry to have taken it the wrong way. Forgive me. You have a good point on the difference of being willing to serve and getting taken advantage of.
Take the Vineyard Essentials course (8 weeks). That will give you a good grounding and kickstart into worship….and even if youve been leading for 30 years you’ll still learn
Hello Brad. Always remember that many musicians have been positively Blessed by what you have taught. I am one of those musicians. Thank you for all you have done. God is using you no matter where He takes you!!!👍🙏🏻😎
A life of ministry means a life of balance. Family time, solo time, self improvement, community,, physical and mental exercising, healthy habits, and then the active ministry component. Being a ministry slave leads to brokenness and exhaustion. Thanks for sharing Bradford
Interesting discourse - some of it I heard in other videos. Caused me to reflect on my own journey over the last 20 years: First, worship is not 'led' by people. Worship is a response to God's love - initiated and led by Him. It has nothing to do with someone else 'leading you'. Somehow the modern day church has been duped by the 'worship leader paradigm'. Someone in that role is a 'musical band manager / music group manager' serving in a local body of believers - not a 'worship leader'. Secondly, there's quite a lot of deeper issues baked into the discourse of this video - revealing themselves through phrases like "felt that it was some sort of status", "take advantage of you like free labor", "move up in the ranks", "easier on yourself", "looking to prove himself", "wanted to prove myself". These are heart issues that most people don't recognize without being lovingly discipled by someone more 'mature in the faith'. I could sense hurt and regret as I listened - not overtly expressed but subtly communicated. Hope your day is blessed.
Hey there, appreciate the comment. No disrespect or ill-will toward you at all but it seems like this video isn’t for you. You are right in your assessment but I would suggest that the way you are suggesting to approach it is a bit over-simplifying and over-spiritualizing it. I think all Christ-followers will agree and acknowledge that all we need to do is focus on Jesus and put Him at the center but how do we do that? Or how do we know we’ve shifted our focus? Practical steps and thoughts are what is necessary and it sounds like others in the comments have felt what I have. Thanks for watching!
This is beyond content, this is incredibly helpful transparency. I'm always appreciative of what you guys post, but this kind of sharing has value far beyond what you realize. Guys, THANK YOU.
Many churches simply can’t (at least financially). And that’s ok. But we still need to set realistic expectations of church staff and volunteers l, and keep healthy boundaries.
Man, i think college is becoming more and more of a burden on most people unfortunately. It’s about people and experiences more imo but sure is a lot of $ to spend for that. Then you leave, like I did, thinking I didn’t really learn much as far as job skills. Then I didn’t even use it. Universities are getting richer tho.
Good advice Brother. I’m way older than you but I wanted to tell you to just keep it up. Really good stuff! Lots of kids just don’t know this stuff. Thank you.
Thanks for sharing your wisdom from your experiences. Regarding serving in the church, that is definitely an area I think people get either pressured into or get burned out as some church members are not sure how to say no or ask God for wisdom on. I have learned from many years serving in our church is, sometimes by saying no to a particular area of service, you are opening the door for someone else to step up and serve. Hard to explain, but bottom line, we shouldn't be expected to say yes to everything. I have found your videos and EG tutorials valuable, so thank you for your service!
This video just came up and I felt I had to comment . I have been the music dir at my church going on three years and have learned so much , I am 57 have played drums all my life and stumbled into a position during covid when a lot of churches were shut down. I stepped up and said I will do my best . Now three years later I play pretty much every week, with no pay I have my own business and I thrive more than I ever have . Because I said yes Lord send me . We are born to worship , I spend hours of my day in worship sometimes . I never want to get paid to worship Jesus . He brought me from A life of destruction that would have certainly lead to death. As volunteers or church staff the big question is how much do we feel we owe our Savior. I have a gift God gave me that gift and I refuse to use it for anything other then his Glory! God bless all of you ! If you have been hurt by a church remind yourself they are just people in a fallen world forgive and move on , like Jesus does with us.
Definitely experienced the willing to serve and thinking it's gonna become something more as a job, so you become taken advantage of in the process. That's definitely a tough balancing act to avoid getting burnt out. Thankfully that's not where I am now but I understand that part of this video for sure.
I felt a couple weeks ago the same way that I was being stretched to thin and it was stressful having to help with sound and new team members and so on, and I expressed my concerns to my pastor and he mentioned Paul and what he went through . I finished the conversation with point taken . And since then have humbled my self . Nothing we go through can be as hard as what he did . I believe Jesus is worth it !
Thanks for sharing this! I would not seek full time position in church but I serve voluntarily on the Worship Team! Still learning electric guitar but do play Bass and Acoustic! A lot of my skills on the Acoustic can be attributed to WT! Greatful for y’all! BUT after 12 years I also feel a change in seasons coming! Frustrated with the bureaucracy that has a hold on the tech side! Just got a Line 6 Helix LT! Never had anything like it! Thanks to y’all I am learning! BUT the techs don’t like it! They have delay and reverb built into the mix! 🤔 So no need for my investment. Thanks for encouragement! 😂😂
Just a thought. You have, or will, experience that the rotation of technicians and approaches will evolve and change over time. Adaptation for us that serve voluntarily is a key skill to have. Your Helix is awesome. I think I might find out what flavor of reverb and delay they are using, and then see if you can mimic it for practice then turn them off for the service. This is a frustrating scenario indeed. I hope they are at least time matching the delays to each song’s tempo.
This type of honesty is so needed right now. I've gone through similar things, and it's made me tougher and brutally honest when it comes to how I feel about what's asked of me. I've felt bitterness in the past and have learned the importance of guarding your heart from people and respecting your own time and efforts. It's ok to say no even in church. We are all just people and things get a little messy sometimes and that's why we need to always weigh what's asked of us and do what you genuinely believe God is asking of you not just the person with authority. Don't burn yourself out and allow bitterness to take root. Let joy lead your serving and lean into God through it all.
Being honest with others when talking about these things especially as it pertains to church is super hard and a lot of times is met with criticism. But don't sell yourself short and don't let someone who might "spiritually bully" you put a wedge between you and God.
Thanks Bradford - I would really be interested in your thoughts about the delicate subject of asking a church to consider paying the musicians for their time. I've served in worship for over 29 years and never once have I asked about compensation, and yet the time and care I put in is equivalent to that of a session player. 1. Is it wrong to desire some kind of compensation for the amount of time I give? 2. How should this discussion be brought up? 3. If in a large church, what would you consider reasonable? I don't see much online of any depth regarding this topic and feel you guys have a substantially impactful platform from which this subject can be addressed. Thanks!
See my comment. I've led for 18 years and actually turned down being paid a couple of times. Why would I ask to be paid when I have the ability to do it for free? There are so many other things the church needs to spend money on and pay people for. They cannot possibly afford to pay everyone. That's my opinion for what it's worth. I do think that if you're leading worship at a larger church where a much larger time commitment is required it might be reasonable to be paid. But most smaller churches cannot afford it.
@@natelee78 - and as such as why I put the detail of "large church". I commit an average of 8 hours prep, 4 hours group practice, plus an 8 hour day on Sunday. Again, it's been an honor to serve the Lord in this capacity for all these years - but at a certain point, as Bradford stated, things get taken advantage of.
You can give them the hours you can volunteer and stay healthy. The larger the church the more time they require. I've done it for 30 years in both big churches and small. If it was a big church the nice thing is they have other guitar players to choose from and I could do every other Sunday or one Sunday a month. However I never expected to get paid and never wanted to. @@John-pp8qv
