Small correction: you'll either get 44 bolter shots and 3 psychic shots from the character or 40 bolter shots and 6 psychic shots from both psykers. Reason being the Aspiring Sorcerers' Warpsmite is [Pistol] so can't be fired in conjunction with his non-pistol combi-bolter.
@@twigius5690That probably makes a pretty big difference, I remember wiping a 6 man warden squad with this combo; although the shield captain was still alive, and Magnus did shoot; the ensuing lucky charge I got did finish of that shield captain so it was all good
Yep TS player already use this combo. Now dont be too afraid this combo is a 900 pts combo ... cost 2 CP and more than half the cabale point of your friend. Note that its also really weak against screening and Good board coverage (you need to be at 12 to maximise the effect) and its fully dependant of 2 unit that you will want to kill anyway ... meaning if they dont start in fep and you have T1 the combo will be a lot weaker as you could either : suck up the cabal point of your opponent, kill Magnus or lower highly the number of totor (a 10 size totor squad is hard to fully hide and if they are in fep with Magnus you May have almost wipe the TS army before they arrive, we as TS really donr have a mot of thing on the board)
@@s2korpionic what screening means here is that if you have unit used as cordon you will prevent the setting of the 10 totor at 12 ' of a target of interest. Which basically means you will halves the number of shot on which your 2 strata works on ... making it a waste of CP .
@@RBTGames If a TSons player is running this, the Terminators won't be on the table until it's time to pop the combo. Deepstrike into 9" range, buff and unload, all on the same turn. But no one actually does this. It's great on paper, but Terminators are just nowhere near as versatile as MSU Rubrics with Sorcerers. More Cabal Points > one big situational wombo-combo.
Got hit with this bomb immediately following the 9 cabal point ability to switch off armour saves for a land raider. Pretty sure i could have walked off for 10 minutes and my opponent wouldnt have needed me for anything
I did this to my friends wraith knight, it was an amazing feel to just delete it, almost forgot I told him before hand to bring his scatter shield for an invul save he declined, he has since decided it needs a scatter shield lol
Laughs in Necron (fully buffed Lychguard squad -1 to wound with lord/overlord, 5+FNP technomancer, 4+FNP with cryptothralls, -1 to hit with enhancement)
Just remember only the cryptek and the cryptothralls get 4+ FNP. Otherwise yeah, pretty tasty. Throw a hypermaterial ablator on as well for Stealth and possibly cover just to really make them work for it :-)
Space Wolfs, Gladius, Assault Doctrine. - Herald Deathwolf [DW for wolf attacks] - Wolf Guard Battle Leader of Thunderwolf (The Honor Vehement) [Lethal Hits, +2 attacks and +2 str] - 1x6 Thunderwolf Cavalry [+1 damage all on charge] - Honor The Chapter stratagem - Oath of Moment target - Charge 405 pts Estimate: 14W from wolfs, 27W from riders on T13/SV2+
@@Dave-dp6yg i would assume "attacks". Harald: - Teeth and Claws: hit on 3+ A5/S7/AP-2/D2 [Devastating Wounds, Lethal Hits] - Glacius: hit on 2+ A8/S8/AP-3/D3 [Lethal Hits] WGBL on Thunderwolf: - Teeth and Claws: hit on 4+ A5/S7/AP-2/D2 [Devastating Wounds, Lethal Hits] - Relic Weapon: hit on 2+ A7/S7/AP-3/D3 [Lethal Hits] Thunderwolf Cavalry: - Teeth and Claws: hit on 4+ A5/S7/AP-2/D2 [Devastating Wounds, Lethal Hits] - Hairloom Weapons: hit on 3+ A6/S7/AP-2/D2 15 attacks hit on 2+, wound on 5+ 41 attacks hit on 3+, wound on 5+ 35 attacks hit on 4+, wound on 5+
Against this specific combo, it seems an excellent contender to at least survive it is Grimaldus leading a 20-man unit of Primaris Crusaders with the 'Abhor the Witch, Destroy the Witch' vow. 4+ invulnerable against psychic and the 5+ FNP along with a mess of W2 bodies will at least blunt the damage. By giving the combi-bolters the psychic keyword it allows the invulnerable against all of those attacks, and the neophyte's 4+ usual save is made irrelevant. As the target has to be within 12", if they survive with even at a handful of models left they at least get to do a very thematic last charge.
You can actually use this on a second squad as well. If you have a rubric squad with bolters and a sorcerer near Magnus (to get the plus +1 to hit and wound), they will be hitting on 2’s and can re-roll 1’s if targeting a unit marked by the terminator sorcerer. They get full wound Re-rolls against targets on objectives with their data sheet ability, and they can get the S5 bolters/psychic bolters from the ritual which lets them use a strat for free even if it’s already been used
Devastating sorcery is the only strat that can be used twice and for free. Ensorcelled infusion is not a battle tactic and echos of the warp only works on battle tactics. Unfortunately, I don't see a way to use ensorcelled infusion twice 😞 The first balance update really ruined the utility of that ritual. Thanks aeldari
For that price, a CSM dude can field 3 Chaos Vindicators and 3 warpsmiths, one of the chaos vindicators also get profane zeal, everyone gets Nurgle mark They all do "D6+1 hits, blast, sustained hits 5+, str 14, vp -4 D6+1 damage hit at range 24 hitting on 2+", they can split fire on multiple targets if you think shooting on a single target is overkill Also, vindicator 1 rerolls 1 to hit and to wound, this can deal something as close as 63 wound, 41 wounds if they have invulnerable saves at 5+
That is a devastating combo! I was reading a forum that was speculating on strong damage combos. The Custodian guard/w Trajann as well as the Knight Warden were brought up as units with high damage output also.
I have to say that I prefer the Bloodcrusher combo (6 Bloodcrushers, a Skullmaster, and a Rendmaster). It’s cheaper in every metric, and averages 29-30 damage against titans. Additionally, it can also take out most hordes. It’s tankier, and is a great allied unit for both World Eaters and CSM as well.
@@casparvandeursen7125 first, it deep strikes, and has an advance and charge stratagem. Second, by being mounted it avoids all anti-infantry and anti-vehicle attacks. There is also the re-rolling saves of 1 stratagem. They are all also toughness 7 with a 4+ invulnerable save and 4 wounds. They have a movement of 10” if they can’t reliably come out of deep strike. And if I am running my list, Belakor does keep two units of these nice and safe.
@@stevenburton7725 Although that sounds OK against top lists that really isn't enough at this point, it just isn't reliable enough. It still has a complete chance to fail its deepstrike charge which is just a risk. 10" move on these massive bases is not a lot, and your opponent won't feed you their big knight within range if they know what's good for them. Even with Belakor redeploy + 6" deepstrike, if it bombs it bombs hard. The TSons can just delete stuff with 100% reliability. The cost is high, but you get so much more for it. I don't know about others but these kinds of "I roll dice you die nothing you could do" tricks in all armies are just rubbish. I am getting less and less interested in the competitive side by the day. If your army dishes 100 to 200 MWs per game, I'll pass 😴
@@user-hv6gi9ux6z well, Custodes only have one unit with Fights First, and it only happens once. Otherwise, they can interrupt for free, but not fight first. As such, you smash into Trajann last, and use your mobility to ensure you are having this kill one of the Shield Captains a turn. Then, have everything pile into Trajann. Or, if you can continue to score primary and secondary objectives without worrying about him, don’t worry about him.
did this to aeldari too turn one and killed the Yncarne + Solitair but when the counter charge hit home i lost Magnus to the Avatar of Khaine because i had no resorces left. Felt like a bad trait off
@@lewisbenzie845 true but with Phantasm the range of the Avatar Charge is huge. Up to 32 inches hard not to be in that range and Do something yourself
In my first test game of tenth I faced eldar. Got turn one and pulled off most of this combo and nuked my opponent’s knight off the board turn one. GG after that!
My friend who is building thousand sons pointed this nasty combo out to me before. You have to be super mindful of your deployment and movement when playing against thousand sons. Really cool combo still.
... in a way the combo is not that terrible if you take in account that it cost 890 pts AND 2 CP AND 9 Cabale point ... sure you got to kill up to a big knight at 560 pts ... but is it surprising for the game cost investissement ? I mean a lot of army have combo a lot cheaper able to kill out such model. As exemple with my BT i can do the same amount of damage with a 330 pts wombo combo unit ... (that said it s more difficult to actually do the combo)
Except you still have those super tanky terminators and HQ that will probably survive the next turn because you deleted what kills them. And then you do it again turn 2 and wipe the whole army. You need to see the impact on the game, if turn one it becomes 2000pts vs 1500pts before your opponent even had a turn to play.
@@mgainsbury ... hum except turn 1 that wont do as you need to be 12 ' to your opponent to use it. And There is no optimisation allowing that. So basically it wont happens before turn 2 or after ... if that even happens as turn 1 is aven more critical in v10 thay v9. Basically there is 2 cases. 1. You dont use fep which means that before being 12' your totor will be wrecked. Them or Magnus that is. Remember they dont have many thing shooting over 24'. And sorry but this combo at more than 12' from your target is the same that doing it at 12' with 5 totor instead of 10 ... and its then a waste of ressources. 2. You fep you totor and magnus or you use the cristal T1. Basically it means you play your first turn with half your army. Problem is the 1k point left dont amount as much in number. Which may mean you could not have anyone more than magnus and the 10 totor left when they come from fep. So yeah fep may allow you to use this combo ... if your opponent dont have any way to screen the board that is. And if you fep you may already accept to play with almost no one but those two units. This may be a bit of problem. But if you dont fep you will suck your cp and cabal point to negate damage on magnus ... which means no combo after. So yep its a nice combo but its quite expected for it to be that effective as you wont be able to use it most of time. Basically the Problem of this combo is that most time you will be able to use it only if you re already winning quite well the game prior it or playing against faction without much shooting ability (faction you will wreck anyway even without this combo). Which make that combo quite useless except to flip a game. That said from my experience its a really good combo to kill a game you re already winning. So yeah talking about the impact of this combo on a game is wrong to start with as something like 95% of the time you will only be able to use it when you re already winning (and not a little).
@@aeaaea8113There is the Umbralific crystal which gives pretty mucha a free Deepstrike turn 1, and Magnus moves very far, so getting him in range with a temporal surge is also on the table
The envy might be misplaced. This is a very expensive combo and can leave your units exposed quite easily. Particularly Magnus, who is surprisingly fragile. It also requires a great deal of preplanning to pull off. I've done all that and still been stung by appalling hit rolls.
Love the discovery that’s starting to happen. Going over Death Guard for the millionth time. The Melee potential in that army is bananas. Full squads of Fights-first plague marines fully kitted to krump (5 heavy plague weapons + other options all bonking first.. throw in a couple of those super woundy flamers for some overwatch protection.. and a buffet of characters to give them some extra spice Invest in that and land raiders for those assault ramps- channel that pre-heresy dusk raider mentality.
Well I'm just glad I play BT who can force out some of the play with Vows (ie 4++ against psychic attacks) and then potentially tank it with a second Vow slapped on (command phase though, not reactively) for FnP(6+) or Grimaldus FnP(5+). Not sure how long it'll last though, Grim and 20 Crusaders is 480pts for a 47W brick with a 3+/4++(psychic only for the squad)/5+++. But its something at least.
As a custodes player I can confirm that we can survive this. I've been hit with it twice without Magnus. With a couple good FNP rolls a 10 man guard squad can weather this pretty well especially if you use the - 1 damage strat.
@@impish4804 The - 1 damage keeps the missile launchers and flames from being that last bit of damage. I think I used it as my free strat in panic and it helped.
You can make it a bit more TS by using spare parts of the Scarab Terminators box. There was an example in the 9th edition codex and this is what I have done
I did 42 mortal wounds with a blob of Possessed vs. Angron. Mark Undivided, MoP, 10 possessed. Charge and spend the 1 CP for all rerolls. Go for sustained 1 on the Dark pact and just fish for sixes.
@aaronsomerville2124 Yes. I managed to drop 30 mortal wounds with 1cp in almost every fight with the Possessed. They can punch up so much higher with the rerolls. Land raiders and tanks mean nothing to that many Mortal wounds.
I prefer the Space Wolves version. 10 termis with 2 missile launchers, 10 storm bolters with a lutenant and bolt discipline. Sustained and lethal at 5, -1 ap with strata ignoring cover. Add a stormspeeder for 1 more AP and you have masive damage
I know it is old video, but maybe I will get answer. I do not understand why around 4:29 it is said that anything on 5's or 6's will wound with Lethal Hits, there is nothing to give automatic wound for 5's for what I am understanding.
I used this against Eldar Wraith Knights. They tend to not take the invul so they can have the extra gun making it a perfect canidate. You do have to watch out for phantasm moving them out of 12" though.
Primaris sword brothers all with power weapons, master crafted power weapons, lightning claws an attached captain and a castellan, one of which has the relic for 5+ critical hits in the vow to make critical hits sustained hits kills everything in the game with oath.
Tau i think have a fantastic combo and less resourceful. crisis commander w/ 4x CIB and exemplar of kauyon (squad reroll 1 to hit, and sustained hits starts turn 2 soo deep strike) and equipped with 2 gun drones. accompanied by 6 crisis suits with each equipped 3x CIB or 3 BC for more shots and shield generators equipped for some survability or weapon support system soo they can't be affected by any hit modifiers like stealth or being in combat, with 2 gun drones each. you want to observe with a second unit with 'through unity and devastation' enhancement, like a firesight team which also comes with a markerlight and its a lone op or a strike team accompanied by an ethereal with the enhancement to guide that crisis team to give 'lethal hits' with CIB its 94 shots in total or with BC its 116 shots in total being guided hitting on 2+ for commander, 3+ for crisis can overcharge to strength 8 -2ap and 2 damage with CIB, 4+ for gun drones each gaining sustained hits 2, having kauyon turn 2 being guided and ignoring cover. and 'a good' auto wound on a 6, even overwatch is deadly for anyone moving nearby or charging the unit just don't get ignore cover and lethal hits if you do. this only requires 2 units, and two enhancements to do by turn 2, even turn 1 isn't bad either. FOR THE GREATER GOOD!! 👽
A 10 man squad of black templar sword brethren with grimaldus leading can have 44 attack base lethal hits, and sustained hits thanks to the vows, plus one AP from grimmy, plus one damage from the sword brothers ability, and if you really want to be crazy add a castellan and give him the enhancement sigi’s seal for crits on 5’s.
I havent checked the math so I don't have numbers, but the wardens are only -1 to wound if the strength is greater than their toughness. Since the bolters are only S5, it wouldnt trigger the wardens rule.
I’ve ran this test a few times as my little bother plays TS and owns everything for this combo to work and so far (by average maths) the only thing that survive it are the units you mentioned in the video as well as 10 aberrants, 6 exalted eightbount with fnp blessing and nearby foot DP big bombs of crisis and broadsides, 10 wraithblades(with shields), GUO with endless gift, 6 plague drones, belakor(barely), 6 brute shield bullgryn (vs sustained hits they die to dev) let me know of any others but this list is full of over costed non competitive units so some of these will never see a tournament list
Don't forget a Tsons Deamon Prince can give all the weapons in the squad Precision for mass character sniping. Does mean putting more resources into it though.
You pretty much get one chance to do it as well. Teleporting terminators can leave them pretty vulnerable. I much prefer using Ahriman's free ritual + temporal surge to move them about. Then I can teleport out of the inevitable combat for another volley of pew pew
I would skip the sorcerer in terminator armor since lethal hits skips the chance of doing mortal wounds. Instead, if I have the extra points, would take a TS demon prince for the -1 hit ability for more durability.
Hi! Wouldn’t this apply only to rituals - not shooting? (new TSons player) Immaterial Flare (Aura): While a friendly THOUSAND SONS PSYKER unit is within 6" of this model, each time that unit uses a Ritual that specifies a range, you can double that range while resolving that Ritual.
so quick answer is yes rituals only so by their range i meant the range for them to cast a ritual of their own or twist of fate to ignore SV values incase you cant or wont risk deep'ing them for the gurenteed rapid. ru-vid.com/video/%D0%B2%D0%B8%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BE-bf6wtGTQZZ4.html
So don’t run this exact combo if you don’t want them to hate you. Or run it if they steamroll you. It’s less intuitive to someone who hasn’t stopped to read the index. As a thousand sons player, I’ve not tried it next to Magnus but without Magnus it’s not anywhere near as impressive. So you could still do it. My scarab blob had real trouble pushing into Custodes and high toughness tyranids even with full rerolls and no armor save
I put this exact combo, with also Magnus's shooting on a squad of neurothropes last game. Killed 5 out of 6. I think my hand kind of broke but those guys have some serious resilience with T5 3W 4++ and 5+++ from strat.
Zoanthropes. The Neurothrope is the "lieutenant" and former HQ but the unit is called Zoanthropes. And they are really tanky with the FNP yeah but shouldn't survive this. You were really unlucky (or your opponent lucky).
I'm genuinely curious how it would do against Mozrog with the Dead 'Ard stratagem for -1 to wound. Nine wounds, T10 with -1 to wound (for 1CP), 4+ invuln and 4+ FNP. By my calculations you'd need to be wounding 36 times (half will drop to the invuln and then half of that to the FNP). With 6+ to wound, I don't think the combo can quite get that, even with Magnus' +1 to wound.
My first match in 10th i had the Lion and 5-man Deathwing Knights marching up my left side, friend was TSons and dropped 10 termies to that side, fired off alot of shots to the Lion, who shurgged it off, but once they charged in, the Lion took out a few, the Knights (who are weaker this edition) took out one, then his Termies almost killed the Lion. Next turn, Lion took out a few more, his termies fought and slaughtered the Lion. Those termies are very powerful this edition, not a fan of them right now. You have to take Lion's Strike to be able to wound on 3's, and thats only 8 with D4 on a squad of 30 wounds. Not to mentions their strategem to auto-pass a save and their normal 4+ invuln. Super tanky.
When I saw the part of Units that might survive this wombo combo I remembered that Custodes have a Stratagem that reduces the damage number of weapon that target this unit for a phase by 1. So would that make custodes even tankier against this? Or Wraithknights with their build in "Reduce damage by 1" as well?
the game rules hard state that you cannot reduce damage to any less than 1. So as most of the weapons are 1 damage anyways. that stratagem is effectively useless.
Friend plays Tsons, this combo is honestly just a feels bad. Prohibiting saves at all if a unit doesnt have an invul feels kind of like ignores invul from 9th. Even if I just had a 6+ save at least it would feel like you had a chance, this combo is just feels bad cheese.
The biggest downside to this is you literally have half your army in one spot. And the other half of the army probably doesn’t have a lot of high toughness meaning they can be overrun quickly. Scarabs only can move so fast and can crystal only once.
I like that you are likely to just have these units, and wargear in your army anyway, so you can always hold it in your pocket. You just need to know the turn you plan to use it - Crystal to position, move in Magnus and let rip!
Ive lost my magnus to it in a mirror match. I will say that many current competitive lists are running no terminators at all, but its largely in response to the current meta of eldar and GSC
GW was right, the game is so much less deadly. I realy enjoy playing 2 turns, saves time and can drink more beers. Actualy we just each roll 1 dice, highest wins the battle, saves more time. No setting up, thinking about tactics, no bad rolls. We mis playing fun games tho, but oh well, it is what it is.
I don't know why, but as a Thousand Sons Player; whenever I remove an armour save, I can't stop myself from playing the dumb crab rave gif meme template and music with the words "Your save is gone" plastered in bold black comic sans on the white crop out strips
My t sons list already has ALL the units for this combo anyway 💀 So I may be tempted. Well I know what ill be doing if I ever play knights I suppose xD
One issue is that you need to invest 2CP or at least 1 CP to get psy weapons on the bolters... for one unit... Great for small games but maybe not so great for larger games
So you need like 950 points and 2 cp to maybe kill a knight. At that point, why wouldnt I want to bring anything else? Like, an allied knight who would achieve the same thing for 555 points and zero cp?
TBH this is what happens when you eliminate the psychic phase and therefore destroy the Tsons' unique identity: Vengeance for Prospero. Get melted, Games Wolfshop.
This is like one of those "broken DnD builds" that requires a whole bunch of hoops to jump through, except you can do it off the bat, not be a higher level character. Sheesh.
There is a ritual for 6 Cabal Points that allows the use of a Stratagem for 0CP, even if it has already been used. Combine that with the Lord of Forbidden Lore enhancement, which allows one Psyker to use a ritual that already has been used, and you can affect a total of three units with one Stratagem. For the cost of 1CP and 12 Cabal Points!
Does the math for the lychguard surviving consider the -1 to wound or not? Wondering because with just a technomancer the lychguard -1 to wound rule wouldn’t be active, and if they survive without the -1 to wound then having a noble to proc the -1 to wound makes them survive even better, and that’s still before cryptothralls get added to this mix
I’m hopeful that Thousand Sons will be only lightly nerfed… We’re a good army to be certain, with some stand-out strong units, but it honestly simply feels like a proper army, instead of the sadness that armies like Adeptus Mechanicus or the Leagues of Votann have.
@@tysongleesonthat, and chaos. GW can’t let us be anywhere near the top and right now we are among the top in the “Goldilocks zone” of armies that are in the win rate they want. So because we are where they want others to be, we are too OP and will be nerfed
@@marseille1196 I completely agree, unfortunately GW plans on balancing armies out by nerfing the top armies, instead of buffing the bottom ones. Which is not the way to do it IMO, because the bottom armies are generally unfun because of their bad rules, whereas the better armies (like TSons) have genuinely fun & engaging rules that show that some armies were just written badly…
