This FCC Decision Made Antenna TV Less Reliable for All 

Thanks so much for posting this comment. I actually explained the technical aspect of both in the video but ended up taking them out to limit the length of the video. I pinned your comment for others to read if they would like. Thanks again for typing it all out.

It's one of the few things Sinclair did that was actually a good idea.

@@AntennaMan Thanks, I had assumed that you didn't want to go to technical for most viewers, so I typed it out for those interested in the details.

@@friesareyummy I agree. I was working for one of their stations at the time. (they had just bought our station the year before in 98' when they were going on a buying spree, right before the bubble burst) They even put out a few reports that stations ran in their newscasts demonstrating the superior signal that COFDM would offer if congress would allow them to have broadcasters choose their own, i.e. give them the option of 8VSB or COFDM when they apply for their digital license. They even had one clip where it shows in a congressional hearing, an engineer pick up a simple indoor antenna off a table in the back of the room and walk it up to the front of the room right in front of the committee members while decoding the signal with not a single drop out as the guy walks the antenna the 30ft or so. Meanwhile the engineer goes back and does the same thing with another antenna and 8VSB signal, and the decoder breaks up as he moves it across the room. A stark difference in performance shown right in front of the committee members. Sinclair was only asking congress to amend the standard to allow broadcasters to choose either 8VSB or COFDM on their digital license application. It would still occupy the same 6 MHz spectrum as the 8VSB and analog signal, and not cause any interference. The excuse was there was already a hundred thousand receivers (laughable compared to the potential millions in the future) in homes at that time, and manufactures would not be able to make a dual standard receiver, even though the chips for COFDM had been out for years because Europe and the rest of the world had gone that way. So it wasn't going to be that expensive to integrate a dual standard receiver, and eventually a dual standard decoding chip on the next generation receiver.. (we already have dual standard radio head units in our cars, AM & FM doh!) Besides, it was found out how hot the early generation 8VSB chips were running and consuming power, so it was impractical with the technology at the time to even consider a mobile device that wouldn't eat through batteries like mad with an 8VSB signal. ATSC 2.0 supposedly solved that, but at way too much expense of data bandwidth. So all you could practically do is one HD signal (decodable with standard ATSC 1.0 RX) with a ATSC 2.0 mobile/handheld signal integrated into that signal. Only a few stations ever put ATSC 2.0 on the air, and there were few and far between phones or handheld devices that could decode it. It was a far cry from what COFDM had inherently built in with it's 2k sub-carrier system. I guess when you look at NextGen TV, (ATSC 3.0) it's what Sinclair and others wanted all along, but now with modern features built in. Just took an extra 20 years to get there..

@@friesareyummy Yep, now they buy-out local news companies and force them to do scripted, conservative-viewpoint crap! Start that kind of thing and it's no longer news. They've also made a cluster-f*ck out of all the 'Regional Sports Networks' in the U.S.

Or if it sprinkles rain, the wind blows more than 3 mph, or a bird flies by your house and takes a 💩, yeah thousands of reasons why digital signal sucks.

The whole government is corrupt. This country is coming apart at the seams because all the STEM jobs went to China and India. Every function is now performed by the lowest bidder.

Cha-ching! $$$$$$

It's not attorneys, it's capitalism !

@@videobruceb8879 *crony capitalism

“What? I’ve made up my mind!! Don’t bother me with facts!!”

The cable and satellite companies

The cable and satellite companies don’t want the competition from broadcast TV

@@jcurnutte2007 “When the going gets rough, buy up the competition-and then just shut them down.” I’ve seen this happen at least twice in my lifetime.

When marketing an inferior product, pay off the decision makers to get a monopoly of the market... Now I know why Cruises in the Caribbean were so expensive in the 90s. Zenith had booked them for all of Congress!

it all comes down to money. Everything can be answered to how much money is willing to be spent. Crazy, huh?

Because money talks.

Know a Mexican man that said he lived near Acapulco and could pick up KGBT radio from Harlingen in mid 60's.

I use an SDR to listen to radio stations in Chicago

I listened to WLS at night for the top 10 back in '66, '67, and '68. Then came underground FM and I was hooked. No ads, no breaks, no news. Ah, yes ... the good old days.

I am shocked as well😂

I used to be shocked by this malarkey. Now I'm grounded and don't get amped up about it. Although it is worth resisting.

The gov ONLY does what the corporations want. We are all ruled by the GREEDIEST, LAZIEST, AND STUPIDEST that society has to offer. When I say STUPIDEST, I am also referring to the general public that allowed a group of criminals (governments) to take over their lives.

We are all.Weird.Where did money and politics ever cause bad decisions,except for the people who wanting it?

LOL...

Ah yes, the planned obsolescence route. Same for computers, laptop, tablets, phones ...

I always knew digital signals were weaker than analog. At the time of the digital transition, I set up a digital converter box for my mother. She picked up at least 20 channels on here analog set. With the converter box connected to the same antenna she only picked up one channel.

Yes, Zenith! Now owned by LG!

Big multi-media monopolies rule the roost in DC. It will get worse until we end up in the dumpster of failed empires/nations. The greed of the monopolistic donor owners will eventually collapse this nation.

It all boils down to the old saying, "There ain't no such thing as a free lunch!"

@@AntennaMan That was true for 1st gen receivers, but the newest 8VSB chips have a much lower receive threshold and better equalizers that offer superior reception. Another factor was the first digital broadcasts were operating with reduced power, and with worse transmit locations (usually lower on the tower) until the full transition occurred. I think FCC also allowed a power boost several years in after they adjusted their propagation curve calculations? These factors made digital reception especially difficult in the early transition years. With a clean rooftop signal, I'd argue 8VSB goes further than analog did these days.

Yes, it would have been much better to go with COFDM from the get-go. So you work for PBS, so I don't expect you to confirm this , but they seem to have taken advantage of this third digital dividend by selling their frequencies in the auction and trying to pick up VHF low stations, basically garbage frequencies. They made Millions.

The ways of the corrupt ….are never ending!

I saw the transmitter power reduced after the switch. Bad reception so people will switch to cable or satellite. One of my local stations was hundreds of kilowatts and switched to 8 kilowatts. The power was brought back up later on after antenna reception was abandoned.

@@gordonwelcher9598 So is there something that will help or do you feel that over the air will become more and more difficult to bring in? I really don't like the idea shoveling my money into the cable companies pockets when there are only a small handful of channels I watch but have 200 plus with about a tenth of them with the same show on at the same time and the pisser is they want over $200 a month for crap unless you pay extra for premium channels. This is ridiculous at best!

@@jimmccarville5152 When we first switched over in Canada I was trying to set up a converter box for a friend. I had no success with an indoor antenna. I could not install an outdoor antenna as this was in an apartment. So the person got basic cable service with Videotron and added the American channels and a few of the cheaper speciality ones. It came to under $50 a month including $15 for the package of extra channels. Now the station power is back up and the indoor antenna would probably work. Myself I have the same setup. We are in Montreal Canada.

@@gordonwelcher9598 I wish it was only $50 a month then we probably wouldn't have cut the cable. Cable company here (Cox) has us by the short hairs as there is no competition other than dish network and they don't have a very good reputation here in San Diego Californication (California) as everything here is totally out of sight compared to the rest of the nation. But thanks for the info I'll keep hammering away and working to get better reception.

I remembered it was $50 a while back. Now it has gone up. The Custom package went up a lot. The Basic digital service did not change much. Notice the American channels are not included in basic. I get 36 channels in basic and 15 in the custom package. A lot of them are in the French language as I am in Quebec. There are also about 52 Stingray music only channels. Here is my invoice: Cable TV Basic digital service (PS) 23.99 Digital television network fee 2.99 Rented HD terminal 3.00 Custom Package - 15 channels 37.05 (A&E/DISC/FOX44/SHOWC/PBS33/CBS03/ ABC22/NBC05/PBS57/TLC/FOOD/CRIME+/ ANIP/MTIME/DEJAV) Subtotal Cable TV 67.03 Total current services _______________ 67.03 This is in Canadian dollars. This is my Videotron service. They offer a few other packages and services. We also can get Bell service here. I am not sure about the price. I am sure you will solve your reception problems if you watch this channel.

I don't recall ever hearing about COFDM being process-intensive before. But it handled terrestrial interference much better than 8VSB

As a laborer, no one listens to them.(engineers). Some young graduate wants their autograph and a big at'a boy on a product or system that wasn't broke to begin with. Everything over engineered and junk nowadays. Disposable

Its been going on since I worked in the electronics industry back in the 1980s (engineering tech). We were working on one of the first (and biggest) packet-switching networks and the management refused to upgrade the network to make it faster/cheaper/more compatible with a variety of data products like small regional competitors were doing (the big $$$ were in customers leasing time on the network). We started losing customers in early 1989 and while our division management made excuses to corporate all us tech staff made for the exits. The place closed at the end of 1989, the network shut down in the USA in about 1996 (IIRC).

You nailed it right on the head there!👍

@@timothypeck3640 Agreed.

Yep the corporate company’s dish,direct tv,etc,have something to do with it,they want your money,they are greedy bastards.

I'd take it one step further...government is essentially run by special interests(corporations). Corporations run cable TV companies. If some "freeloader" is getting over the air for free....how is this helping a CEO buy another yacht?

@@benighted09 I been freeloading the best I can but it's getting tougher.

hi new to the channel. I was wondering if there is a way that you can make a homemade antenna from stuff in your house. you know kind of like MacGyver

@@LisaMadventure there’s always a way to do that. Shortwave listeners and hams do that all the time!

I remember when they were dual conversion.

I used up two coupons, to get two mediocre boxes that work fairly well, still have the one.

i have 2 of the zenith dtt901 converter boxes, they are solid performers and i still use them daily. only downside is the composite video output, no hdmi.

This guy doesn't know shit

@mary allen unfortunately, broadband inputs in newer TV's are not very stable and can be overloaded easy. Filters definitely help. simple band pass filters that only pass the TV frequencies will do wonders. It doesn't have to be narrow and defined to a channel or channel group. I never understood why the industry did not implement them.

@mary allen I have filters with preamp and distribution amp. I am hoping next year I can get a low cost converter for ATSC 3.0. I don't want to spend $199 for a tuner!

@Frank LeeI bought a $10,000 73" rear projection 1080i HDTV in 2000 that was state of the art. I eventually gutted it, installed a couple of bunk beds and used it for guest quarters.

you have a lose connection somewhere or corrosion in your elements.

Yes, if the signal goes through or near tree leaves, it will be destroyed with multipath on a windy day. You really need to get the antenna up above treetop height to mitigate the effects.

@@TechnicalLee I would have to get the antenna up over 60' high in order to do that so that's not going to be doable here. Luckily it's only a problem a handful of days a year. I'm just going to have to read a book on those days. 📚

@@ethansaunders995 same here, I’ve got a channel master 4228 and all broadcasters are within 30 degrees of each other at 15 to 25 miles. Windy days it’s un watchable. Calm days it’s precision perfect. Like yourself I’d have to have a massive tower to clear all the tree tops.

During the last repack, stations could be reimbursed for the cost of new transmitters necessary to change frequencies. Were they reimbursed at all for their cost to go digital originally?

@@RickPaquin I don't think so since they got to keep and operate their old transmitters PLUS the new ones on TWO channels at the same time.

But the untold part of ISDB part is that is also a fragile signal also is not that robust as many can tell under high impulsive noise the COFDM signal gets broken not matter the system, also the cost of run a system based in OFDM is higher than is certain channels on my area tar appear and other days don't or simply stops of broadcast or by weather factors just don't reach to an outdoor antenna even being in the market of broadcast

95% of the public are unable to appreciate true high fidelity. This causes the minimum bandwidth or bitrate to be used for audio broadcasting.

@@gordonwelcher9598 I am not sure what your reply has to do with my comment which was mainly about Zenith's credibility.

@@SuperFredAZ Sorry I replied to the wrong thread.

@@gordonwelcher9598 OK, no worries

@@SuperFredAZ Obviously, in the end, they blew their credibility.

Sounds like you may be experiencing some reception enhancement from weather conditions. It is fairly common some nights, especially in summer, to receive channels from far away.

Most low power stations in my area too have infomercials on one uhf 32 playing at the same time one on channel 12 and channel 4 low vhf playing the same program

Ever since the FCC started have deteriorated. allowing corporations to own multiple stations in the same market, OTA broadcasts have deteriorated to the point that I can't watch them any more. Companies like Sinclair determine what you see and hear over the air and 'cable'. I suppose streaming will be next.

Huh, I never knew that. Maybe the local stations have options to cover up programming for infomercials and take advantage of that, while the satellite version is unmolested because it's a direct feed form the source and their contact (Cozi) probably states that DirecTV can't cover anything up.

Likely. They're known for tacking their own names on things like Headphones and such. Realistic, Optimus were actually made for them by Koss.

1) The possibility of VHF digital going beyond the horizon and interfering with analog during the transition was very real. Low power was intended to prevent this. In at least one low-VHF case, a digital station's power had to be reduced further when an analog co-channel station complained. 2) Power levels were based to a great extent on the 1950s measurements of analog propagation. The FCC failed to recognize that the levels of interference in the VHF band (especially low VHF) had increased over the years. Some engineers called for a plan to increase digital power after analog went away, but the FCC never developed it. So, broadcasters bought cheaper, lower power equipment without expansion capability. To increase power levels now without interference, all VHF stations would need new equipment to be turned on at a certain date. Economically, this isn't going to happen. All the dollars have been spent moving channels to clear more spectrum for mobile phones.

One of my local VHF stations reduced the power from a few hundred kilowatts to 8 kilowatts. Later after people switched away from antenna reception they put it back up.

@@oldtvnut Understand the digtal/analog issue. But it's time to revisit the problem and fix it. As to the cost of these transmitters, Telcon's paid heavily to purchase the upper part of the UHF band. This was money WE pay to them in our monthly phone bills!! The govt. then ordered the repack to allow the Telcon's purchase and allowed stations to be compensated for the cost of these new transmitters and antennas that were required for them to change frequencies. So for this VHF station, the way I see it, we actually paid for their transmitter through our phone service. The station itself hasn't incurred any cost, so they have the option of purchasing a new transmitter. But, as you say, any engineer worth their salt would probably have purchased a more powerful transmitter than required and either lowered the power output to meet FCC specs, or reduced the ERP using a lower gain antenna. I might be wrong, but they may have the capability to raise their power by just replacing their top antenna with one with higher gain and increasing their power. It would be nice to see an active TV engineer respond to this.

@@oldtvnut I've been installing TV antennas for 31 years. In some areas, VHF-HI does much better than UHF does - like in my area. WJLA-DT 7 and WUSA-DT 9 penetrate through trees much better than all of the other local UHF digital channels. Channel 7 and 9 almost always have a stronger signal 40-70 miles out with an outdoor antenna.

@@navigate2u Agree, it will. I think the real issue is that VHF CAN certainly do the same distance as UHF on much lower power but the antenna has to be the same gain as you can get with a UHF antenna. You can get 12 to 14db gain from a 8-bay UHF antenna, but to achieve close to that same gain with a VHF antenna, you're talking about something 10 or 15 ft. long like we had on our houses in the 60's. IF the FCC thinks the general public is going to go back to installing those long VHF antennas, they are mistaken. This is one of those situations that works mathematically, but totally fails in actual practice. It may mean either abandoning VHF, or reducing the number of VHF channels, giving each one a 200 mi. gauardband, and letting them put out more juice. The FCC needs to respond to this problem for the benefit of the viewing public. At last check, they were funded by the viewing public.

I have the Magnavox for one of the TVs my dad has

Magnavox seems reliable since it has antenna meter

You're right, the big zenith building was right off of interstate 294. I remember going by there and seeing all the antennas Up on the Roof. When I got my coupons I was able to procure the Zenith DTT901 converter box and another brand which I can't remember. For the life of me I can't remember where I picked the converter boxes up. It might have been Radio Shack.

I had an RCA converter box that worked reliably for about a dozen years, until the free OA broadcast signal in my city was blocked by massive new buildings.

@@reeboksboiz1266 The Zenith DTT901 also had a signal meter

Actually watching the game look at today it’s a joke right!

Engineers opinions are often ignored. Marketing decisions, cost reduction and politics have priority.