This FF7 Rebirth Mystery SHOCKS Maximilian Dood & Me 

CLICK THIS for More! - bit/ly/BltzZYT FULL Stream w Max - ru-vid.comUPoxy4nu0yo?feature=share The Knights of the Round: Babyseal - www.youtube.com/@schrodingersbabyseal NSP - www.youtube.com/@TheNightSkyPrince Sleepezi - www.youtube.com/@Sleepezi MAX - www.youtube.com/@Maximilian_Dood

Any theory that will serve/enhance the “let’s mosey” scene is a welcome addition. That scene has to elevated to the nth degree.

Something else to consider as well. Remember at the end of Remake on the highway, the whispers are blocking the way except for a white “portal”. The whole party enters the portal and ends up in an other timeline or world. At the end of Rebirth, there is another white portal, it leads to where Aerith is praying. Except, this time only Cloud enters the portal, the party had to keep it open for him. I can assume that where Cloud entered is another timeline or world. In that world he saves Aerith, then the whispers disappear and the rest of the party can enter. What I believe happened is the timelines where Aerith lives and dies merge together, only for Cloud since he was the only one to enter the portal. Cloud saw Aerith alive and dead where the rest of the party only sees her as dead. This is also why Cloud can see the tear in the sky while the rest of the party cannot. That tear is also part of the timeline where Cloud saved Aerith.

Adding to Sleepezi's point. I think this may also add to Tifa's reaction at the end. She herself has experienced first hand Cloud losing control. That thought about Cloud actually killing Aerith may already be in her mind.

I can imagine this perfectly. Sephiroth going, you killed her, Cloud. And then Cloud laughing it off saying that it's ridiculous, Aerith isn't dead. And then the whole party crumbles in that moment. Honestly, top tier tomfoolery Sephiroth. Mad props.

Whoa, in OG FF7 Tifa says - It's just an illusion @5:03, but in Rebirth that's what Cloud says in the end when referring to the crack in the sky.

Checks out that Seph is just "Oh I can use this" when he flies off. If Tifa and the others are too scared to even bother helping him in the Lifestream, Clouds donezo

Sleepezi's prediction of Cloud's sword being cursed and needs to be destroyed, and then Zack gives him his sword....mind blown!

Sleepezi's idea of Zack giving Cloud his Buster Sword "again" since the black materia corrupted the other one is fantastic! Some other points that we should consider: - Cloud's sword has a green glow as he is swinging it to block Sephiroth's attack at the altar. So... What does that symbolize exactly? We know that Holy in OG for some reason turns green if the prayer is answered. Is the green the lifesteam or something else? So perhaps the empty materia will have not only Cloud's memories and dreams but also Aerith's somehow, since at the ending the materia reflects clouds(Cloud) and earth(Aerith). - The two whale weapons definitely have a major role in part 3, but being two we can assume that one will be for Cloud and the other for Tifa, helping them to leave the lifestream sequence, although one of the weapons was wounded by Sephiroth in Rebirth, so what will that cause after or during the lifestream sequence? That wound could enable Sephiroth to interfer the Lifestream sequence, making it unstable, only to fail/be stopped by the real Cloud that found himself. Another thing we could consider too that both weapons glowing at the ending of Rebirth could be the trigger for the other weapons to start "booting" or to start some other type of planet failsafe? Maybe that was just their way of repelling the arbiters, by being together that glow will keep them safe until the constant attacks stop. Wondering too if the whale at Corel's reactor was there in case Tifa fell into it, but Sephiroth's plan was dedicated to Gongaga's in particular. - When the robed men start migrating from Nibelheim at the ending of Rebirth, there is a shot where we can see a very strange concentration of arbiters from afar. We can easily miss in the scene. Wonder what they were doing there, and where/why.

Remember guys: Everyone’s theory including yours is incorrect! Only the game devs knows the truth!

I think it would be kind of hard to convince the party that cloud himself killed her. She would have a very specific narrow stab wound through her abdomen of which cloud does not wield a weapon that would give her that kind of wound. They might think he was involved but not the person that stabbed her

This is like the knights of the round of FF7 creators! Imagine if it was Cloud that killed Aerith and completely changing everything that happened in the og...that would be insane!

I think you can add Cloud “giving” Sephiroth the black materia at the Temple as one of the moments where he isn’t actually there either

A note to remember is that everything we see right now is Cloud's perspective. I think we haven't seen some things the party saw what Cloud actually did/acted that we also haven't seen it yet. I feel like in the part 3 we'll get some flashbacks to what really happens.

but that one line that sephiroth said " i have underestimated you" will throw this theory to the bin. Aerith's lifestream force is going to be stronger in the final game.

Tifa thinking Cloud stabbed Aerith, could br a reason she doesn't even say a word to him.

The Cloud killing aerith theory aside, I don’t think the rest of the party believes he did, cuz they (or at least Barret) sees Sephiroth and assumes he did it. They would also probably not be as trusting of Cloud if anyone thought he did anything to her. As for the blood on Cloud’s hands, he’s holding a bleeding out body. Kinda hard to not be covered in blood. Ultimately I don’t subscribe to the theory, much less the stuff supposedly backing it up

I think the Aerith visions are really her from the "other side" helping out. Even Red felt her presence in the final scenes. I'm thinking Aerith was always a force of good and pureness in the FF7 world, and whenever she is on screen it's her and a sign of hope and light in the darkness. I wouldn't think they'd use her character as a hallucination. She also told Cloud "whatever happens, don't blame yourself." so hopefully he takes that to heart and doesn't consider himself to blame for her death.

It's even mind bogling that when he kills that jenova clone, Cloud says to the party that he is not like Sepiroth, he will never be like him; in comparison when he was a young kid in Nibelheim, making a promise to Tifa, under the water tank, and before that saying that he will be a hero, like Sepiroth. It is really mind bogling and an amazing story! :)

Biggest issue I see with this… clouds sword is stupidly massive. Like bigger than Aeriths torso big. The party would have seen the stab wound.

In the conclusion of FF7 Rebirth, Cloud's ability to perceive Aerith is a reminiscent echo of FF7 AC, where Aerith would lend her aid to Cloud in times of crisis.

I wish 4-8 was included in this.

I actually wondered about that too-if Cloud might’ve been the one who killed Aeris rather than Sephiroth, or at the very least, if the group questions if Cloud was the one who killed her. I definitely noticed how Barret looked at Cloud with uncertainty a few times during the last scene. When Cloud suggested that they should go north next, Barret paused for a moment and looked at Tifa before finally responding with, “Alright… We trust you,” and then mentions to Cloud how there is a lot to lose and that he better be prepared for such a heavy burden (or something in those terms). Cloud responds that he can handle it (the burden), to which Barret doesn’t respond, before entering the Tiny Bronco. Also, speaking of Tifa, not only does she say nothing in the end, but.. it’s almost as if she doesn’t even want to look at Cloud at all. After Cloud calls to her as the party is leaving the lake, she takes a brief moment before finally standing up to see Cloud seemingly happy as he’s hallucinating Aeris’ presence. There seems to be a bit of suspicion with her somber and confused expression, but she rejoins the group anyways without saying anything. She has a similar expression when Cloud suggests they go North next, and then again after Cloud reassures Barret that he can handle the burdens, immediately looking away from Cloud before she joins Barret and the rest of the group. Whether Cloud was the one who killed Aeris or not, it is definitely noticeable how some of the party members show doubt and suspicion with him. We won’t see how everything unfolds until part 3 releases in like 4 or 5 years 😅

i definitely feel like in part 3 sephiroth will mess with cloud and the party and there's definitely a possiblity that the party starts doubting him and wondering if cloud was the one to kill her while being controlled. granted, i don' think there's any chance of cloud actually being the one to do it. that's not only way too dark but i also don't think cloud would ever recover from something like that either way.

I've thought about the idea of the party thinking Cloud did it, but that doesn't add-up for me. I think they'd have said something, but more importantly a buster sword and a Masamune leave quite a different hole. I can totally see Sephiroth convincing Cloud though that he killed Aerith, that seems very plausible.

Cloud has “infinite potential” and Sephiroth and Aerith both know it. Sephiroth wants to tempt Cloud to use his power to help him “create forever” (end the cycle of life and death) with the implied promise of bringing back Aerith in the process. Aerith wants Cloud to accept her death as a stepping stone to accepting the necessity of life and death in general.

I think their plan for part 3 is to get the audience to turn on the waterworks extremely high. Part 2’s ending got the audience to feel exactly like how Cloud’s mental state is at the end.

Problem is that she has a piercing the size of the masamune in her body not a giant buster sword. I guess, they could play it off like he did it but really wouldn’t work imo.

a damn theory just gave me goosebumps! When i first beat it i kept telling myself "Tifa is going to absolutely snap on Cloud at some point". The Tifa temple scene showed her anger towards soldiers.

Aerith " whatever happens, don't blame yourself ".. But if that actually happened..Clouds redemption has got be Ginormous!

There’s no Jenova manipulation. That is Aerith. I believe that it’s the same Aerith from AC that gives Cloud a hand in the end. My question is this……What is Deepgrounds story in this?

Great catch on the "Finishing Touch" Limit Break during the fight with the Midgar-Snake. I never pieced that together.

i think one aspect that a lot of ppl are not considering is that in the OG there was a big plot twist about cloud's identity that shocked everyone but the twist is now spoiled and not only that, the devs almost went out of their way to spoil it by encouraging people to play crisis core and watch advent children before playing rebirth. the story will still follow the same major beats so that "OG plot twist" will still happen however since it won't have the same impact bc the majority of people already know it, i think the big plot twist will be about aerith's death but not in the way most people are thinking... a lot of people seem to think that the "twist" is that cloud was delusional all along and he needs to accept aerith died but that in itself is not a twist at all, there's no surprise, no shock. don't get me wrong, i can see them exploring cloud's grief over losing aerith on a deeper level however i think there's more to aerith's death and her fate than it meets the eye. i mean, there's a reason why they made the ending so ambiguous and they left aerith's fate up for interpreation even in the ultemania, her fate seems to be the biggest mystery of this ending and depending on how each player interprets the story and the events that take place, everyone seems to have a different opinion. in this game in specific they really hammared how messed up cloud is and by the end the majority of people is left thinking cloud is just out of his mind when it comes to him seeing aerith seemingly alive but i think they're doing it on purpose to make it seem like he's just messed up and unreliable but he's actually not as crazy as they're making it seem. i remember a while back the devs saying the big twist this time around would be more about "unreliable world" rather than "unreliable narrator" and i think that'd be so much more interesting and it would allow them to have somes sort of twist when it comes to what actually happened during aerith's death rather than just "cloud is an unreliable narrator and you can't trust what he sees". don't get me wrong though, cloud is definitely messed up but i just don't think he's messed up to the extent people seem to think, as if everything he's seeing isn't true, that's just way too predictable and there would be no real mystery for part 3. i just think there's context missing to a lot of the scenes they present us in order to make it ambiguous and confusing. also when i say a "twist" when it comes to aerith's death it could be a lot of different things: it could be that she actually died but not in the way we think, it could be that cloud actually created a world where he saved her or it could be something else entirely different that no one is expecting.

Great conversation it was. So many cool theories and ideas, anything can be possible at this point.

interesting how you guys missed that sephiroth stated that he needed cloud to suffer and have a burst of emotions because it affected the multiverse, sephirtoh was out to hurt cloud its clear that aerith was trying her best to protect his mental state as well as prevent sephiroth from achieving his goal. thats why im willing to bet that the aerith we see at the end is real, nomura stated in an interview for advent children that cloud is able to see and speak to aerith because she lived on in his conciousness.

My question for the theories about Sephiroth trying to damage Cloud even further is what would be the purpose? Unless Sephiroth kills Tifa, she will just somehow fix his mind again, even if it takes slightly longer. Even if the party abandons cloud because they think Cloud killed Aerith, Tifa will still cling to him considering she was almost killed by him already and she sucked it up.

Something that makes me pause is some of the dialog in the final battle sequence when Aerith and Cloud take on Sephiroth. Sephiroth: "What do you make of this Cloud...is it real or a fever dream?" Cloud: Don't even bother. That won't work on me - not anymore. What do you mean not anymore? If you think about it... that line doesn't fit with our current understanding of the events of the game. Is the final battle we witness actually on a different timeline where Cloud has already had his resolution and comes to terms that Aerith is gone from physical existence and he was being manipulated by Sephiroth? Similar, the timeline where Marlene says Cloud needs to save Aerith. Recall Tifa, Barrett and the others are gone in that timeline. So when Cloud says "Wake up Aerith" and she wakes up smiling surrounded by a rainbow...yet no one is around but Cloud...that seems to fit with the events of that timeline where he saves Aerith? Final thoughts- I know the Ultimania has said there aren't parallel universes...but we're definitely seeing something of a separate world (maybe vision from the lifestream?) that has branched off due to choices made by our characters.

I can say for certain that the party does have doubts about Cloud, especially Tifa and Barret. Look how they glance at each other in the ending. Barret's hesitation too when he says they trust him. Tifa doesn't even speak to Cloud as they board the plane. She doesn't even look at him. I think there's definitely mistrust brewing.

Personally think the question is more will another aerith cross over into that world. Can’t see cloud being blamed.

Also, Cloud already knows about Zack being in Nibelheim. Cloud doesn’t remember yet that he wasn’t in Soldier, but that’s not exactly that crazy of a revelation to make Cloud go crazy. I have wondered about this very thing since they make a point to hide what really happens.

Here’s a take with some minor spoilers. In the very beginning of the game Cloud gets attacked by Midgarsomr and Sephiroth just forms out of thin air kills the thing and disappears into the wind. Other people can see Sephiroth though when he manifests so we know it’s not Cloud however, it’s seems his ghost or spirit is hanging around Cloud. By that means if Cloud didn’t go to find Aerith Sephiroth wouldn’t have been able to attack her.

It doesn't even need to be a lie. Cloud is being dragged by whispers, forced to raise his sword just like in the original. And he hallucinates saving her. We don't know when the hallucination started. Maybe he DID kill her. We, as the audience, don't even know.

Part 3 will be more dramatically and insane. But at the end cloud will fight 1 vs 1 with Sephiroth it will be sure like OG. I cant wait !!

Nah. I love these theories, but nah. If the gang thought Cloud was the one that killed Aerith, they wouldn't be... so chill about it for so long, and they definitely wouldn't let him on the Bronco. If you recall back to all the Remake theorycrafting, once everyone clued into the whole "alternate timelines" thing with Zack and the stamp bag and healed Biggs, everyone went off on like "Zack is going to have his own parallel story and then they'll merge and blah blah blah" and everyone went off, and the sum total of Zack's addition to Rebirth's story ended up teaching us "Parallel worlds exist, here's how they work". He didn't have a complete story himself, he had tutorial vignettes basically. Whatever theorycrafters come up with is cool, but they always play 5D chess and Square always ends up playing 3 1/2D. So why were those vignettes there? Well, there's only one moment that any of Zack's moments are relevant to in Rebirth, and that's what happens to Aerith. Zack's bits (and the whisper talk from Remake) hammer home that parallel worlds are created through actions. Aerith is alive in a parallel world Cloud created through his actions, and she's dead in the main world we've been adventuring in, and due to some influence (Aerith or Sephiroth?) Cloud is now aware of both. All that Cloud is suppressing is his perception of the Dead world, because he has a better world right in front of him that is nonetheless real. Defying/destroying the arbiters of fate and thereby changing how the story goes through actions is the main thrust of this trilogy, why it's being treated as a seperate entity from the OG. Aerith's death is the emotional and narrative crescendo of the story, the biggest moment. There is zero possibility that the biggest moment in all three games sidesteps, downplays, or has nothing to do with altering fate and parallel worlds. It is definitely not going to revolve entirely around Cloud being unable to cope with trauma, which is not an aspect that has been brought up or played with much at all, and is certainly not a main plot point up until now (all of Cloud's head nonsense have been Jenova glitches so far, or at least have been indistinguishable from them). In fact, since we know Sephiroth can travel through time essentially, influencing events way before he normally would, it's entirely possible Cloud's entire backstory off forgetting his past and thinking he was a Soldier was retroactively put there by Sephiroth, eliminating the entire "Cloud can't cope" angle from the story entirely. If Zack's B-side adventures have nothing to do with Aerith's fate, they're basically wasted time, because they don't narratively apply anywhere else in the entire game. I promise you Square knows about Chekov's gun ya'll. Here's the best guess of what's happened to Aerith that makes everything work as best as possible: Aerith's alive in a parallel world, which have been shown to "overlap" each other, i.e. they're all existing at once on the same physical space on the planet (Sephiroth even says as much, "the planet has many worlds"). Aerith is aware one can "hide" from Sephiroth in these parallel worlds, although he's also clearly hunting her through them (see: the Date, Sephiroth showing up in the church right after Aerith pushes Cloud back to reality). Aerith is clearly using her alive status in this parallel world to enact some sort of plan that Cloud is aware of to some degree. Everything fits with this: This perfectly explains why Red can sense Aerith even though she's dead (to him), why her dress doesn't move when the Bronco's engine explodes, this makes every story beat in the meta plot in both games so far relevant to the biggest moment in the story, it makes taking away our goodbye make sense, and most importantly, it allows square to basically still do whatever they want in the third game. Even if we knew this was one hundred percent exactly what happened, it does literally nothing towards helping us predict what part 3 will bring. The only reason I can see that people wouldn't go with this theory is that it entirely sidelines Cloud's character trait he had once of blocking out trauma and.... good? It's not a good story beat, honestly. It wasn't in the OG either. Relegating Cloud's mentally escaping trauma to a one time deal that was possibly always a Jenova manipulation is such a better story beat than "anytime things get sad for Cloud his entire reality breaks".

¬ Occam's razzor, no need to. But okay, let's break straight down it¬ 1. Its not the non-blood stained masamune, is the scene in wider. The silver hair man is holding the crime weapon, Cloud doesn't so at all. Everyone is watching, everyone reacts in that regard. You would say well, any of us knows, well, that's exactly what I'm pointing, the knowledge is an element ruining this very theory. 2. Tifa what is doing is reasoning while sitting along the party by the water. She is puting together wheter she saw one thing (Aertih's dead body) or another (Aerith lying uncounscious). Nothing more, guys. She breaks to mourn only afterwards when she surrenders herself to emotion. She's the only one crying still in the grass, and the only one not just lamenting herself by the water (besides Cloud). 3. Tifa won't take part in any 'trial kind of think' against Cloud, though Sephirot had tried to inflikt doubts between both already with any success. 4. The 'Jenoveic Aerith' question throws its hints in the ex-post scene by the water much more in the blend of Jenova's and Aerith's themes. I perceive this motive relation instead of the referral to Remake's opening scene. To me this is an entire riddle. And 5. Aerith is not dead, for sure not in the extent youre claiming, despite all your 'Cloud is delusional' premises and the argumentative of the broken mind. Guys, the real thing is you are missing the unavoidable spot that brings the steps to the 3rd part. Nothing personal, it is only one elephant in the damn Forgotten Capital's white Altar. The devil is in the details in any analysis worth its salt. Are welcome to do it whenever it is. And P.S.: Cloud's delusional, broken mind. Hey, not any intention to shine or something, but the hero's psyche is not the all time artifact. I think is worth defining the nature of the issues concerning Cloud's psyche with ground, also is worth starting by distinguish amnesy from hypnosis and also from manipulation. And no guys, psychology has not a mechanical projection in this fantasy context, not a direct one. Cloud is not so mentally messed up, on the contrary. He may has been bamboozled, but didn't invent his lifestream journey by infused science. Therefore he sees the rift at the end, and don't be surprised if the doomed world ends up beeing the party one.

I remember watching this part in the stream and even commented how wild it was in the best way. Like seriously how effed up would it be if Sephiroth tricks into believing Cloud possibly killed Aerith. It would be such a twist of the knife. Regardless, I do hope there is a cloud boss fight even if it probably won’t happen. It would be absolutely terrifying

That's willllld dude.... Holy shit. Throughout the entire game, clouds not been himself. He even tried to kill tifa! The only issue I have with that, is if the gang thought cloud killed aerith, I feel like aetith would intervene to assure every1 that that isn't the case

Something I can't stop thinking about is how the Aerith in the grassy field says she's going to put everything into summoning Holy to stop the Meteor. From what I recall, those are words unspoken to this point in the remake. We as players know that's what the White and Black materia are for, but no one in the remake party knows. Even if you wanted to say that it's the Aerith Prime at the end of time who already knows what they are, Cloud would have no idea what she's saying right there. I think this is evidence that the Aerith we're seeing in that scene is a manipulation, and maybe not just manipulating Cloud, but us the player. Cloud thinks things are fine because his girlfriend is alive, and we the players think things are okay because Aerith is doing the thing it is she did in the original game, but in reality, whatever Jenova or Sephiroth have in store doesn't use Holy and Meteor the same way as the original.

As interesting as this theory is, I think it adds unnecessary layers of convolution to an already convoluted plot. I believe Cloud ACTUALLY deflected Sephiroth's sword successfully. In doing so, he triggered a branching timeline - that timeline inherited the original outcome where Aerith dies (the game demonstrated earlier through Zack that this is how branching timelines work in this story). The jump cut we see where the blade is suddenly impaling Aerith despite Cloud clearly deflect it - that's a perspective swap to the newly created timeline, not a mind glitch. Notice no green, glitchy filter occurred during that specific transition as it does in the moments following. From there, we see an alternate Cloud who failed to save Aerith coping with her death. This is where the mind glitches kick in. In one long sequence they split timelines, show us the outcome of both, but hide the outcome of the Cloud who succeeded by mixing it in between the mind glitches of the Cloud who failed. By not explicitly delineating when the perspectives change they intentionally confuse the audience and set things up for a big reveal in the early chapters of the next game. Basically, they've created a situation where they're giving us both outcomes and it doesn't seem that they've done this arbitrarily - I think both of these timelines are going to play a meaningful role in the story and probably end up merging - by that I don't mean literally - I mean more like coming face to face with one another.

I mean Sephiroth in the OG was really good at weaving lies and truth together. Like at the Northern Crater when he shows that it was Zack as the orher SOLDIER at Nibelheim, but also made Cloud think that he wasn't even Cloud. So I can see Sephiroth doing this.

My immediate thought when seeing the trailer with Cloud in the robe was that he'd be the one to kill Aerith this time around. I guess we'll see.

I'm calling it now that part 3 is going to be called Resurrection. I'm actually very surprised that not a single person has mentioned this title so far. I think it's going to be called Resurrection for three main reasons: 1) tetsuya nomura when he was thinking about the title for part 2, he mentions that he wanted to come up with a title that was very similar and very reminiscent of the remake title because it conveys a very similar idea of recreating something. There is no reason to think that the RE title for part 3 will diverge from that same concept of coming up with another name that conveys that same theme of recreating something, so in that sense resurrection which means to bring something back to life, is very fitting. So that by the very end of the project they can say that they have successfully remade, rebirthed, and resurrected the final fantasy 7 game. 2) so I think that the title for part 3 is actually hidden inside the game itself, just like the title for rebirth was hidden within the title of the one-winged angel title in part 1 soundtrack. There is a part of the temple of the ancients that is called Hall of Resurrection, and as far as I know, The only other RE word in the entirety of rebirth is reborn for the sephiroth reborn fight, and they definitely are not going to use reborn after having used rebirth. 3) finally I feel like it would be a fantastic title because the very name Resurrection can hold a dual meaning for part 3, wear aside from achieving what nomura wants with remake rebirth and resurrection all having the same kind of theme of recreating something, it also fulfill the role of making people think of Aerith when they hear the title. We all know that's where enix loves to mess around with their audience, so what better way to make people think that she can get resurrected then through the title of the game itself, but in reality, resurrection could just be applied to another form of sephiroth just like he had his sephiroth reborn form in rebirth. Or Resurrection could apply to something else in the game, but the title will serve a dual purpose nonetheless by keeping people talking about whether Resurrection applies to Aerith. 4) I actually have a fourth reason that I just thought of, but mind you that it's a little out there so excuse me if it sounds too far-fetched. So I feel like the title resurrection is a fitting conclusive name so they development of these three titles. Resurrection almost feels like the natural last step in the progressive titling that nomura has been doing. What I mean by progressive titling is that it almost feels like the specific order of Remake, Rebirth, and resurrection would have been chosen for a reason. Remake would be first because to make something, like a table or a chair, is a beginner's level way of creating something: ie creatingsomething lifeless and inanimate. Rebirth something would be second because to give birth to something is a higher form of creation, like giving birth to a baby. Something that has a life, a soul. Resurrection would be the final level of creation because the act of being able to give life to something that is dead is currently technologically and scientifically impossible, but they aspire to be able to achieve that one day.

I am in the Aerith is a Jenova clone camp. I don't doubt that the 'real' Aerith is in the lifestream, but I think what Cloud is seeing is Jenova. They spell that out in the Temple.

At 6:17 was it ever explained how cloud got out? Also I have a crazy theory about how when in chapter 12, cloud tries to sleep but when he does, he’s able to see aerith & Marlene from another perspective of cloud? What if the cloud we’re playing as isn’t our cloud? What if this cloud is actually from a timeline where he did become a soldier or either died when Zack died because remember the only reason cloud survived was because they saw how messed up he was from the mako, so they decided to leave him alone cuz he would end up dead. but sephiroth managed to take him & bring him over to remake/rebirth time cuz I don’t think when cloud fell into the multiverse, it was not his 1st time there, what if sephiroth brought him there before when he was unconscious. As how cloud could see aerith & Marlene, during chapter 12? i think cloud is dead because when you go to cosmo canyon, there is an Npc by the round table talking about how their parents are dead but potentially are alive in another reality.

If cloud did end up killing aerith, I’m gonna lose my effing mind. Makes sense since we didn’t actually see sephiroth’s sword Pierce aerith. Plus before sephiroth showed up we see cloud for some odd reason raise his sword against aerith while she was praying. This is cinema at its finest.

The Dood joking about how everything they think of will be wrong is the pinnacle of irony; considering l’m pretty sure this guy has nailed every prediction he’s made.

I really dont think it was the intention for the party to assume Cloud killed Aerith. They saw Sephiroth there. Even if there is the possibility, its unnatural to assume Cloud did it when Sephiroth was standing right there, and he had all the motive to do so, to stop her from casting Holy fully. He slung the blood at Cloud, not to hide it, but to force Cloud to face the truth of the moment to break him into despair. As for Aerith after her supposed death, I actually already thought of what sleepezi said after I finished playing it. It is likely both Cloud glitching out and also a form of Aerith making her presence known to him to stop him from breaking down, at least for now. And I always figured that music was not supposed to be spooky, its the same theme that plays at the start of Remake when we see Aerith.

It seems this entire game is about what is fact and what is fiction. And I’m not talking about the multiple worlds or multiverse, but also scenes such Dyne being the man with a gun arm shooting people at Gold Saucer instead of Barret, or Red 13 realizing that his father wasn’t actually a coward, also Tifa being dead or alive. It seems this whole game is like that. I know some of this is in the og, but they are definitely expanding it here and I love it!

I agree with the theory that whenever cloud is “paying attention” to his surroundings, imposter aerith shows up aka jenova. But, the very last scene that showed aerith watching the bronco fly into the horizons, i feel like that was the real aerith and that “goodbye” she said, in my opinion, felt like it had some serious weight behind it to the point where the implications of that “goodbye” might be more than just a simple farewell.

I'm honestly glad I'm not the only one thinking that the Aerith at the end is a Jenova manipulation. When she said "I'll send up smoke," I immediately thought of Nibelheim. Hoo boy... Part 3 is gonna hit Cloud harder than Tifa hits a dragon.

That's one of the weirder theories, I feel it's a more linear logic. Tifa's different from the OG because she went into the Mako/lifestream in Gongaga, which appeared to give her the ability to either see the "other reality" or the ability to see what Cloud was seeing. One wild theory I have is the final fight takes place in 3 realities. The start of the fight takes place in FF7 OG it's only 3 party members and the fight is purposely scripted to knock out the other two party members but Cloud and then when Jenova rips open the "barrier" the party returns however I feel this is the part from the reality in which Aerith lived. I think this because one thing that is constant whether she lives or dies is that she is still knocked out for the time, and another thing I find very strange about that whole fight in general is the cast isn't acting like someone just died, they are fighting and even having more jovial conversation with one another. To me that doesn't add up because why would they be having this nonchalant conversation taking down Jenova after witnessing Aerith being killed? The mood just doesn't feel right. A="OG", B="Aerith Lives" " C="Dream" So basically course of events go (A) Cloud and 2 random party members fight Jenova, they both get knocked out of the arena. After dealing enough dmg Jenova rips open the arena and (B) We appear in the reality where Aerith lives, the way the cast talks to one another feels unnatural for what they witnessed, it feels more like a jovial conclusion to a Journey's End rather than anger towards their enemy. (B/C) Cloud and Zack appear in a potential reality in which those two universes are merged and fight Sephiroth, Sephiroth then decides to split the worlds and turn into Sephiroth Reborn -Now the next three scenarios I feel are all happening at the same time- (B) Cloud fights SR by himself meanwhile (A) This is the team in which the 2 random party members were knocked out, they didn't fight the rest Jenova and are confused as to where Cloud is, the arena also appears to look different from before and Barret's comment of "This ones for Aerith" seems to suggest that she might be dead. Another thing to note, the way they talk to one another is less conversational and more strategic, they are more focused on the fight rather than focused on remarking on their journey. (C) Zack down his part to damage SR and then it goes back to (A) The team finished off SR (B) We go back to Cloud fighting Sephiroth and (C) Aerith arrives to aid him But I would say it's an interesting observation to look at on a second go at it. Observe the way they act during the first interaction when the party is facing off against Jenova Lifebringer compared to how the Party acts when they are facing Sephiroth Reborn. The mood just feels very different it doesn't feel like it's the same exact characters that they are from two different realities.

In the end nothing is gonna matter anyways because it’s all going to ultimately end the same as the OG game.

As the person who played the OG game more than 20 times, and I know everything about that game, I find it annoying when people refer to the OG game and think the know what the remake is about. You don't know. Because you don't understand what the OG game was about. This is not a grand remaster, this is a remake, the story is already completely different, there are so many differences that whatever you think you know based on OG game, is wrong.

Remember the Nomura, aka Mr Kingdom Hearts Man, was holding back the multiverse shenanigans. Let that sink in

Everything is the same from the OG. We're just seeing everything from clouds perspective now. In the OG we never saw what cloud what seeing what was going on in his head but now we see it.

I'm in the middle of nowhere for work so all I've been playing is this game so this is my terrible take on it. When Sephiroth says something like "the planet encompasses a multitude of worlds", it reminding of Berserk (also Griffith and Sephiroth are eerily similar IMO). Like dimensions layered on top of each other on the same planet. When Tifa was pushed into the lifestream, I saw it as the Weapons were trying to show her the truth about Cloud but Sephiroth stopped them from going further into her memories and prevented her to actually see what happened during the Nibelheim Incident. When the "memories" of Zangan and the other pulled Tifa back into consciousness, Cloud walked away with Sephiroth. When Tifa woke up with the party and Cloud was there, he looked concerned, which reminded me of the scene after rescuing Johnny in Chapter 3 of Remake, when she mentioned how his eyes were different. 1.) being infused with Mako and such and 2.) homie is COOOOOLD. In Chapter 9 of Rebirth when Cloud falls to Sephiroth's influence, there is something different in his eyes that are pretty noticeable when watching the scene play out, BUT Tifa sees that Cloud is "back" when the Weapon leaves her with the party. That is how the scene at Cisnei's house makes sense to me, even though he diiiid just try to kill her, she wants to remind Cloud of who he actually is and recognises Sephiroths' power over Cloud. Tifa gets noticeably irritated when Cloud is "heartless" like in the Mithril Mines or after Dyne is killed. Tifa walks away before Cloud has a heart to heart with Barret (but if you watch the scene back, you can see Aerith watching from the buggy in the background, cool detail). Anyways, I thought that because Tifa was in the lifestream, she can now see what Cloud and Aerith can see to a lesser degree, seeing how she was exposed to the lifestream she can recognize Jenova's influence when the others in the party can't, meaning that she can see Sephiroth's pawns similar to how Cloud can see Sephiroth through the robed men. I took it as Tifa not being able to distinguish between Jenova, Sephiroth or Cloud. So when we saw Aerith die, it's seems that it was Jenova-roth that did the deed, but to her (like Cloud seeing Sephiroth in the robes) she has a hard time seeing if it is Clouds doing OR she can now see that veils between worlds because the exposure to the lifestream has granted her that ability to see the different outcomes. As an aside, Tifa was the Chapter 12 date in my playthrough, which after seeing the cutscenes in Chapter 14, the implications are horrifying; like did she kiss Cloud, or did she kiss Sephiroth sort of thing? Again, this is a terrible take, although I don't think I have ever had this much fun with this game or even thinking about whats next and I can't wait to be wrong about all of this, I'm just occupying my time feeling in the gaps with my own head canon. Loved the podcast you all did, hope that becomes a regular deal.

Imo I think Part 3 could come out and just say "y'all were overthinking a lot."

It was a great watch! So glad everyone got together.

I was thinking the same shit when cloud have blood on his hands dripping down onto Aerith and the fact that aeriths whispers were trying to keep him out while sephs whispers opened the path for cloud. Aerith saying whatever happens don't blame yourself. Would really be the best thing to make cloud crack at northern crater before falling into the lifestream.

If this is how they plan to do it... the reactions would be insane.

Cloud killing Aerith is the only twist that would put the remake series on par with the OG for me

Yes, that was my conclusion too.. He killed her or Sephiroth made them think he did so could now have more control after he left by himself to degrade even further. The hallucinations are either him not copping with what happened or Jenova controlling his mind or really her pushing him to continue without her.

Damn, I didn't realize there was literal BLOOD ON HIS HANDS. That has to be something they are going to do at the Northern Crater.

In the game Sephiroth explains how Genova can appear as anyone and he also tells Cloud “you know I killed her, so who is she”. At the time we think he is talking about Tifa but since Aerith and Sephiroth essentially already know whats supposed to happen in the OG he could have been foreshadowing when he kills Aerith and now that Cloud is seeing Aerith again knowing that Sephiroth killed her. Which begs the question “who is she?”

Omg! And Aerith kept saying to Cloud to not blame himself for his actions! God damn

I think the reason Tifa is so distraught at the end of Rebirth is because of how cold Cloud appears to be. Because to Cloud, he is still able to see and interact with Aerith. I believe Cloud is one foot in the lifestream/alternate timeline and one foot in their world currently. It's probably why he alone can see the sky. It's also possible that Tifa didn't tell Aerith about Zack like she said she would. To be fair, she remembers Zack but hasn't brought it up due to Cloud's weird memories. It would make sense if she was feeling regret and guilt over not being able to tell her the truth.

I actually did think cloud would be the murderer before this game released. But i didn't think about how all these small elements might line up to make a little play of deception. It's quite masterful if they did.

God that would be incredibly dark but would also make Sephiroth an even more sadistic villain lol

It’s crazy you used the tifa reaction as the thumbnail, my first thought upon seeing her make that face and hearing sephiroth say “the convening of worlds” made me think oh shit it’s not just cloud and sephiroths reality merging, tifa thinks she killed her!

Having Cloud think he killed Aerith makes sense. I find it hard to believe the party would still follow him at the end if they thought he killed Aerith.

never forget that in the remake they literally didnt want cloud on the second mission after he complained about invisble shinra things attacking him (the whispers) and almost killing his neighbour during the night. so they have already pushed the whole notion that people wonder if cloud is all there...

But Barrett already assumed Seph killed Aerith. Unless everyone else thinks Cloud did it and Barrett is the only person who is on Cloud's side.

All 3 installments are not linear, all three are actually different universes and are happening in tandem at the same time. Remake, Rebirth, and ReWTF.

Cloud gives sephy the black materia buster sword and zack gives cloud a clean buster sword and infuses it with the hollow holy materia after it’s filled back up. Then sephy uses the black materia buster sword in the final battle of the game. A battle of the buster swords.

Hole from being pierced with the buster sword probably a litttttttle bigger than masamune

I think we’re in a simulation of Sephiroth maybe Hojo recovered his dead body. Or Sephiroth’s manipulation via lifestream and tampering with other timeline. Example Barrett’s death and etc. The temple of the ancient isn’t supposed to be up north. It’s supposed to be in the south next to fort condor. No bone village harp hunting for safe passage through the sleeping forest. Enemy Skills doesn’t work the same way. Materia doesn’t split on mastery. No land mass south of Junon. No mystery house with the temple of the ancient key. The beginning of the game Midgar is destroyed and Avalanche is dead with the center of Midgar (Shinra power company headquarter)destroyed. But, Rufus and Hojo flew via helicopter back to an intact Midgar with possibly sector 7 intact. Both headquarter has the red sign of Shinra.

I think tifa's focus is more so on how cloud is holding aerith. Tifa is feeling a rush of emotions besides loss im assuming and its pretty much confirmed by sepiroths lil bit about all the emotions hes sensing in the moment. one of the sus parts of the death scene to me is this, we know aerith basically died damn near on impact. so when did she reach up to touch his face? It becomes hard to discern because we're flashing between reality, clouds suppressed "reality" and aerith basically bandaging his fragile mind together with her spirit.

I believe that Aerith using holy to save Zack is so that Cloud doesn't feel responsible for the death of two of his closest friends, which would lift his spirits more and allow him to find his confidence sooner.

OG Final Fantasy VII is the way fate intended. Final Fantasy VII: Remake is not a Remake of FFVII. It is a sequel about Sephiroth trying to "remake" or bend fate to his vision, using multiple worlds of possibility or multiverses he can see. Thus you get sequences where Zack is alive but not quite interacting with the others because he may have survived if fate was different. And you get Sephiroth talking about multiple/merging worlds. It is a play on the word remake. The dark whispers are assisting Sephiroth, while the light whispers are trying to keep things to the original. Square Enix did a "similar" story for FFXIII-2. Things could deviate from the OG. Just my take.

The Landi Lodge said this in his podcast last week… I’ve been singing his praises in these comment sections.

Holy crap I had no idea that theories can get that dark so I'll leave with this: You know how Cloud puts the Black Materia into his Buster Sword at the end? I bet this will unlock his Meteorain Limit Break in Part 3, where he, you guessed it, launches meteors at the enemy.

my first impression about it is that tifa had a glimpse of that timeline where cloud was successfully manipulated into killing aerith himself. therefor, yes, she knows that its not cloud who did it, but also, she saw a hallucination that he might be the one to. she is scared of cloud thru and thru; "cloud, your scaring me", all the violent killing he did, and tifa being stabbed by cloud herself. i know its probably wrong, but that would probably be my head canon till the end tifa would break down hard pt3. people are extremely belittling how badly tifa is broken psychologically and emotionally. aerith and tifa would have a convo in the lifestream or something like that and that would help tifa a lot in regards of her own psychological and mental health. cause they are pillow besties now. enough sisterhood that they care about each other in a deeper level. again, would most probably be wrong, but that would probably be my head canon till the end. then the two would make a plan to help cloud two folds. tifa would help cloud physically and emotionally, aerith would be for the lifestream and psychological stuff. then zack would be the bro cloud needs. he would double down on what he did for cloud before.

This was an awesome collab. Hope y’all can do it again. Would’ve loved it if y’all talked more about what y’all want to see in Part 3 besides story stuff.. felt like y’all barely touched on gameplay for Part 3.

Insane theory! It's going to be so crazy and brutal if it turns out that way in P3. Thanks for the podcast guys! It was a joy listening to FF7 fans nerd out on the game :)

I also was under the impression that Cloud did the killing blow in the remake. Ultimately does it change the plot in any way that is relevant from the og? No, its still ultimately Sephiroths doing. But it does tell a better version of that same story.

damn i guess i wasn't the only one thinking cloud had to do something with aerith at the capital. i was initially thinking cloud could've done it instead of sephiroth especially with how the scene was portrayed. good video bltzz! i didnt think about the other scenes that you brought up that give more evidence of cloud potentially ending aerith. i loved the discussion with you and crew just giving all these wonderful theories. im really excited for part 3 for sure now.

I watched you all live. The three hour nerd out was awesome. I think he is definitely trying to convince Cloud he killed her. It's perfect insurance. My question is did Sephiroth show Tifa the truth, or is she able to see through some of Sephiroth's illusions because she's gained abilities from being inside a Weapon?

Thank god for you guys. I really didn't like the ending, I felt like they traded genuine emotional impact and pacing for superficial "wtf" vibes. But I knew once the theories started coming I'd be able to get excited about part 3. I do think in retrospect the OG will still be considered definitive in terms of storytelling, but Remakes are taking us for a ride and I'm here for it.

i told my friend early on they're either going to have cloud attempt to kill aerith and actually doing it OR zack will be here and jump in front of sephiroth'S blade, saving aerith, but then she ends up dying at a different part of the story, like in part 3, since she needs to.

That was a great stream. Glad I was able to stumble upon it live. Hope you guys do another one like this in a few years.