This came out in the 1950's and has since been forgotten. So, don't wait until 2057. You have to wait until 2080. Then you can style it up to look current, claim it is yours, and charge thousands for it.
@@trenguy25 That's a very 2020 thing to say XD. I'd say it depends whether we are referring to the subjective "fantastic" or the objective "fantastic". Contrary to common belief there are still objective scales regardless of personal sentiment.
@@JordanBartholme In 2017 I bought a 66 Chevelle with a 396 and a four speed for $750.00 It IS a fantastic car. I put another $1,350.00 into it, and it turns low 10's@ 146mph. Pretty damn fantastic from where I stand. Waaaaaay cooler than any $5000.00 mountain bike.
I think you should build a “future bike” using all the strangest or innovative tech. Trust fork, push coil shock, oval chain ring, sram axs drivetrain and dropper, synchros integrated headset carbon handle bars. That would be so sick and fun to watch y’all ride!
This is a video I would absolutely look forward to and watch. Edit: actually more than watch, that's something that could be worthy of a mass share if done right.
@@Sionnach1601 wait, my comment is pretty naive, made just to laugh. I actually don't know the exact function of this fork. The system is pretty close at first glance, but what happens inside I suspect it's different. Also, I don't think Piaggio owns the patent for the Vespa front suspension.
It's double wishbone suspension. Many supercars have it, the honda goldwing has it, and BMW's telelever is practically the same as well. Nothing new mechanically speaking, but everything has been done at least once somewhere anyways with 300+ years of vehicle development in human history :D
Jon White had a similar working fork back in the late 90’s where it absorbed front impacts but this thing just shows how far this style of fork has come, hats to the designers 👍🏼
That's such a good idea. It's like a transition fork - when you think about long travel forks, they're ALWAYS on super slacked head tubes. What affects control more than any geometry of the bike? Head tube angle. They managed to take the forces that are pushed in the direction of travel into a fork that maintains a highly maneuverable headtube. They're trying to maximize safety (maneuverability) with speed (head on impacts). Clever idea, and I'm glad I watched this.
To be fair, "parking lot testing" generally means riding on flat ground and pumping the fork with your arms, not running into curbs without even popping a little wheelie to help get over the curb.
You can also get a really good bike for under a grand. This is the beauty of the free market. If nobody bought the high end stuff, the low end stuff would not be low end and we would have no innovation
I’d like to see how it performs on low speed technical climbs where sometimes more rider input is needed when preloading and jibbing up awkward rocks and roots.
I'm a middle aged dad with limited skills but a decent bank account. I rode the Trust Message fork on Evil Following bike shop demo. Most noticeable difference on 30 min loop is the traction into corners. The bike feels more comfortable leaning further into turns. Managed to get BP in segments without pushing for both uphill and downhill. My usual bike is a 2019 transition smuggler with Fox36 Grip2. For the enjoyment factor and frequency of use, I'm very tempted to buy.
the negative motion of feeling "stiff", is still transferring energy into the bike and body. the fact that the suspension is "directional" means it only works in motion. id still like try it though
This seems like it would be awesome on an aggressive hard tail. The head angle wouldn't get too much steeper when the fork compresses and in berms it would be pretty rigid on both ends.
It would look great on my 'modern geometry' hardtail, but it costs nearly twice what I paid for the entire bike [plus probably an expensive divorce suit if she found out what it cost.]
And the weight penalty would not be so much with no rear shock. And hardtails are low maintenance which suits this fork. Still too pricey for me though.
No brake diving, and no bobbing up hills... looks like the wheel trails behind the pivot... a trailing arm suspension moves up and away from bumps... great idea !
I was worried at first that linkage forks would look crap on mountain bikes but this fork opens a whole new pathway to how sick a linkage fork can look!! 🔥🔥👀
As a mechanic i see complexities which will lead to unreliability, lot's of service time, too many moving parts etc, and frankly there is nothing innovative about this, this principle has been around for a long time.
Eh...sealed cartridge bearings don't require much maintenance. I'm more concerned that it just won't ride very well unless you're hellbent on convincing yourself your $2700 was well-spent. I've ridden linkage-forks before and I didn't like them.
It's ment to win races and push the sport, small price to pay. I agree, I'm surprised no one has tried this before, that linkage has been around for decades.
7:39 lol! everything is expensive when it first comes out. i remember when a 40 inch LCD TV cost about $8000-$10000, now you can get them for $400. this fork sounds amazing and the price will come down. that's when i'll think about getting one. until then, i'll continue enjoy my Fox 36.
@@lyricmaster6763 Agree with you, But this just looks over tricky, And wont give any improvements i think since the traditional fork has been proven and tested, Dirt bikes suspension does more Research and the traditional fork is the best design, also it looks ugly. Check out Fox 34 or 36 its just sexy looking fork.
5:26 look at the brake cable. When I first saw this I immediately thought: This gonna feel good on bumps. It looks to have speed wobble but if you look at the angle of the steerer tube and follow it to the wheel, it looks like the wheel is on a normal fork.
It seems like this thing operates like an inboard suspension. You can tune them so the stiffness varies through the range of the shock. It's soft when it's fully extended and progressively gets more and more firm as the wheel gets higher and higher
I like the looks of it, reminds me of two spider legs holding the wheel. But the pricetag is just way above my budget. (My account looks like a phone number, sadly it's only 911)
Anything Dave makes I'll ride, I own a Pivot Firebird 27.5 and I ride it everywhere, XC trails, bike parks, shuttle rides, enduro races, Mammoth, Northstar, and Whistler A-line, it's my all around bike, and What Dave has done to the way the bike pedals, is amazing.
Look up Moulton bikes? The suspension concept was designed by Dr. Alex Moulton from the UK for his range of iconic bikes back in the 1950s. Good to see an honest 21st century upgrade!
Telescopic forks are the front derailleurs of the suspension world. Change my mind. 😐 On a serious note: the early adopter fee is stupid high, but I look forward to seeing how this evolves over the next few years.
Definitely agree, really excited to see new fork designs over the next few years. Telescopic forks and rear derailluer are my two biggest gripes. I want to see gearboxes, no more derailluer hanging off your bike waiting to be smacked, and less maintenance.
Linkage forks are not new, and have plenty of flaws. Hossack suspension, as found on some motorcycles, is probably my favourite suspension design, but that's entirely up to the frame manufacturers, and would limit your geometry, travel options, setup options, etc. I think in terms of telescopic forks, Cannondale's Lefty does it right. I do hope we get more variety, but linkages do wear out, and the torsional flex can be unbelievably awful on some designs. As for the guy who wants gearboxes, have fun with the efficiency issues, even Honda couldn't solve that one (they put a derailer in a box and called it a gearbox).
I'll sit back and wait for this thing to hopefully tone down it's looks and hopefully the price. Seems like I'm in the minority thinking the fork looks massive, just visually heavy, and kind of dumb.
This is old technology the girder fork has been around for a long time and still works the best in terms of geometry. I am glad to see more companies are talking an old idea to a higher level.
This is a good design as it maintains radial vector stiffness to prevent washouts while cornering. It does this while absorbing tangential vector forces (hitting relative vertical planes). This design has the effect of an increased rake angle without taking away from cornering ease. Certainly optimal for downhill racing.
Looks like an upside-down version of the Girvin Vector fork that was installed on my 1996 Pro-Flex 756. The Girvin Vector was also designed to be more plush against obstacles vs. simply pumping the fork with your arms on flat ground. (Girvin called it "J-Path", based on the travel of the front hub when the suspension was compressed.) I never really liked that fork; J-Path sounds like a great idea, but it was extremely unsettling to have the front wheel traveling _back_ as well as up when it hit a bump, _especially_ when cornering. I replaced my Girvin Vector with a Manitou SX-R in 2002 and I was much happier with it. I've never had any interest in going back to linkage forks.
I want to clarify the reason why having the front axle traveling rearward as well as up is unsettling, for anyone who hasn't had the experience: When cornering, the fork is turned somewhat to the side, so the "rearward" travel of the front axle ends up being somewhat sideways as well. This causes the side-to-side balance point of the bike to change _while you're leaning into the corner._ Unfortunately there is no way this new fork could be magically engineered to not suffer from the same problem, because the linkage mechanism is still attached to the steered part of the fork just like with the Girvin Vector. But, I suppose people don't ride technical trails as much as they used to, so maybe the problem I stated doesn't matter. It's all about going downhill fast nowadays.
I'd definitely have this. Seems brilliant. There's so much energy and forces when a wheel meets an obstacle it seems almost obvious (now) to use some of that to get the wheel over the obstacle. Suspension is an interesting topic, not just on bicycles. During WWII they kept improving the Willys Jeep suspension until they arrived at an amazing front suspension with one problem, if both front wheels were airborne the wheels would fold under and roll the jeep-- often killing the driver and passengers. They backed off. I made a prototype cart and because I didn't have much hardware on hand I used shock cord (which is tension not the compression I needed) so I used a lever--wheel on the other side of the arm. The thing rode right over rocks a bit like this s bicycle suspension. (me: luck, Messenger: design). I looked for other examples of my suspension and what I found was a highly developed area of engineering that seemed to mostly improve on what was already being used instead of trying new things. In MTBs this methodology would be to just keep improving on the standard front shocks design. This clearly seems better.
Yep, usually with higher performance and tight tolerances comes higher maintenance, but they did say that internal maintenance only every 250 hours which is amazingly high as motorcycle forks for off road can only do maybe 20 to 30 hours. This is for the elite racer, especially in corner speed; stiff along the centripetal/radial vector (prevents washouts) but able to absorb hits along the tangential force vector (impulse when hitting a relative vertical plane).
That's the thing that struck me first as you (and others) have explained this fork.. "The head angle doesn't change as you compress". Now I may be wrong, but I think that alone is a huge selling point. - Some poeple these days seem to be soooo very anal about having their head and seat angles just right.. and then ride off down a technical descent or ride it up a techie climb only to have a bike which at sag alone makes it over a full degree steeper/slacker in all the wrong places.
I feel that problem on every ride. I would buy one if they were a grand, but $2700 is a lot of money. Though, if it made my current bike better than a $6k full sus, then it would save me money.
Telescopic forks are still the gold standard for the motorized dirt bike world. They are still metal, use springs and oil and shims for valving, and are very tuneable.The leading link type suspensions of yesteryear did work well though as they prevented the front end from diving and conserved geometry. These are some interesting forks though and I would like to try some.
Did you see how slow he was going? The rider's balance and ability to aim the bike straight at the curb matter way more than suspension performance at such slow speeds. Back when I was young and stupid I could ride no-hands over curbs that slowly on a fully-rigid Huffy. Nowadays I'm sick of falling on my ass, so I don't try things like that anymore.
I'm curious as to how it handles under heavy braking. It seems that it would want to dive more than a conventional fork since the caliper location would pull the rear linkage directly upwards. This may not be an issue with it's intended trail / enduro usage (or it may, I'm an XC endurance rider so I'm ignorant about other aspects of riding). Either way thanks for another great video.
Thanks for watching Simon! If anything the fork dives less than a "traditional" fork. The combination of the stiffness, linkage, and the tune itself makes this fork perform so well. If at all possible I'd highly recommend trying this fork for yourself. It's just so different from anything else out there.
@@WorldwideCyclery Good to hear. It's definitely an interesting fork, probably overkill for my usage but I'll try and goad some of my enduro friends into buying it so I can give it a good test.
I love the comment you said about "If you're OPEN MINDED..." I think that is so important in so many factors. Thanks for the review and the detail you provided here!
Some high performance aircraft have “trailing link landing gear” which really smooth out landings and reduces the bounce on landings. Really great to see this fork.
If this fork can be proven to produce better times and race results, then it's worth the money. Otherwise, it isn't worth sacrificing your muscle memory and years of experience on a traditional fork. Riding a bike that feels drastically different from your setup can make you slower or even crash more often.
At 5:50 while actuating the fork while braced against a wall, the wheelbase is noticeably shortened. I would equate this with variable wheelbase/trail as riding roots and rock gardens actuate the fork. Interesting dynamics happening and review impressions are positive. Innovative!
After further research the wheelbase does shorten, however this fork is a negative offset with a linear curve of travel and range that mantains a constant measure of “trail” and stability. This may break thru the current standards where brake dive and compression forces quickly change and reduce “trail”, thus giving up some stability.
All full suspension bikes experience changes in head angle and trail while the front and rear are going through their motions. This is a better movement than a straight telescoping fork collapsing it's length as it compresses.
i would totally run a Message fork... but I would like to see what they plan on for longer travel options, AND lighter setups (which I would highly expect out of a full carbon, short travel, odd looking fork...)
i think the way they designed it is at a certain angle the wheel hits the bumps, it feels softer but when force is input in another direction it feels stiffer. from what i can see, any force that hits the wheel at an angle parallel to the fork, it will be smoother/softer and when you push it down when you car park test it, the force is not parallel to the fork which means not all the force is dampen, that's why it feels stiffer. but over all that's an interesting mechanic for a fork
Nice to see innovation. Pretty well thought out fork...but I don't like the look and the price..obviously.😅 But hey, it's innovations like that, what the bike industry needs to keep moving forward. Someone thought out of the box and for THAT you have to give them credit. 👍🏼
The mountain biking industry needs a check, the prices of bikes and these new gadgets are insane and at the end of the day it has a lot to do with the rider's skills.
I could see this being something useful for more extreme cyclocross and gravel riders. That said, my bike doesn't even cost $2700 so it'll probably be a while before I get my hands one one of these.
i still may buy one at that price. The design makes perfect sense. With the offset out front, a regular fork is pushing the wheel. With this slackened fork, and the mechanics in the back, the wheel actually hangs and the fork pulls the wheel back and up on impacts. . I can see how it would track better and as a rock crawler, how it could save me a few trips over the bars...
The angle from the crown to the wheel seems weird, almost like it's going to crack either the frame mount, or the fork itself at heavy impacts ( vertical drops )
Very interesting idea. There looks to be movement around the brake caliper and a lot of movement in the brake hose. I guess you'd have to keep an eye on that to prevent mechanical failure... When they get the price down i'd definitely try one.
If cost wasn't a factor i'd try it out, but since cost is a factor, i'd stay the hell away. By the time you add dust, mud, water, regular riding wear and tear - I bet it wouldn't feel so stiff in corners once all those pivots and bearings develop play. Awesome concept, over engineered for real world use.
This is a really interesting development in forks and I’ll look forward to seeing how Trust moves forwards with it and I wish them every success. Unfortunately at $2700 it’s way above my price range, but maybe if the big boys Fox and Rockshox decide to jump on this wagon, it’ll make it even more interesting and competitive in both design and pricing. The future looks amazing, and we haven’t even spoken about rear shocks yet! So good.
Probably feels a bit like the first ride on a Whyte PRST-1 back in the day I think the looks would be a deal sealer for most. People with that much cash to drop on a fork generally don't worry too much about what other riders think.
If that bottom angle was adjustable, that would probably make it more plush on a straight down drop. It is the angle on that bottom bracket that makes forward bumps so much more easy to ride over, with control.
big and bulky yes, but that's never been an issue with DH. Clever design which makes perfect sense for the application. I'm willing to try anything once when it comes to cycling
Ahaha... Phenomenal... It's from the scooters of the 80th... Maybe earlier. It's unbeliavable how someone tries to sell a fork with a price of a car...
I'm sure this fork is wAAAy better than my old Girvin crosslink elite from the old days (late 90's) The Girvin was excellent (corners and tracking and climbing) and very different for its time too! Let's hope this Trust fork earns the trust of die hard conventional fork riders!
Still have the same Girvin Elite on a vintage Trek 9800 OCLV. Probably the most underrated fork in history. IMO it was the best blend of innovation and simplicity; within it’s means of use. You can ride that thing as hard as you want and service it once every 10 years. The Trust fork reminds me of BMW’s sophisticated telelever suspension.
Speaking of service intervals. I haven't seen any service manuals and repair kits and spec sheets (ie bearings, bolts screw torque etc) on their website. To me this is also important even if servicing isn't required as much as traditional forks to because in the end, it will still require maintenance.
We took a lot of air out to demonstrate how it looks through the travel. It doesn't bottom any easier than a normal fork and like a traditional air fork you can also tune this with volume spacers for better ramp up. Although, the volume spacers are not see easy to install on this one...
its forces are more lateral and the weight is more vertical, so it should be harder to bottom out. to help you understand freeze at 4:41 look at the hub, then the 2 pivot point in front of the hub.
After reading most of the comments the price seems to be its biggest hurdle. For the most part it sounds like most of us would like to try it and although complex the maintenance internals are so far between it’s comparable to a traditional. Admire the effort for evolving the sport.
