I am currently in this situation. It’s going on 8 years now. It has been the absolute most stressful experience I’ve ever had. On one hand he seems so normal but in other ways I’m like this dude is crazy. It wasn’t until I came across your teaching that I began to understand what’s happening. I know that he loves me but I’m afraid we will never have the closeness 2 normal people share. He only lets his guard down for sex then he puts it back up. I would have walked away by now but we’ve built a business together. In the meantime I feel like I’m on a roller coaster ride and I just want to get off!!!
@@towannasheppard6876 if you're not getting your needs met, then maybe have the conversation and decide if it's for you or not. You don't have to stay in any partnership that doesn't meet your needs. That's up to you. ❤
If they (DA) don't do the work, it's a waste of time. Period. They're like an Air-BNB, short term rental only, making periodic trips, but no long-term commitment. Only talk and camouflaged presentation. No matter how strong and interested they appear to be, their fears and wounds are just too deep. Even for very secure people, it's just not worth it, if the DA doesn't do the work and show up in real time.
I adore him, I do. But nothing I can do will heal him. I'm praying that The Lord can. He is a good man at heart. His trauma is not his fault. However, it's killing me.
As a previously dismissive person, I realize now how I made some of my most secure partners anxious and frustrated. Ultimately the best way was to work on myself alone to become more secure.
Thank you for sharing! This is exactly what it FEELS LIKE! My Dismissive Avoidant think it just me! What was the BREAKING POINT for you to FINALLY DO THE WORK???
Thanks! Your video is spot on. I finally broke things off with my DA when it was apparent that they didn't want to give up old coping patterns. Emotionally, I was drained. I had to save myself.
Unfortunately I don’t think any real serious relationship can work with a DA. Because their idea of a relationship is you more like a puppy and not like a person. They just want you around when it works for them, their time, their needs etc. I had one DA relationship for 10 months and it was a roller coaster. I became very anxious because our body is not used to people showing emotions like this “their is none” so our minds are constantly trying to figure why this does not seem right and your in a constant fighter fight because your mind is treating this person like a threat. Much like when you meet a narcissist your body scanning them saying something is not normal. I felt this so much with a DA then a FA which was my wife. Think DA actions are much like a narcissist so again our minds go into anxious to tell us something is not right here.
I have a theory about how attachment styles align with cluster B personalities. I don’t like to use the word “disorder” in this context, because I don’t think there is such a thing as a “normal” personality in this world. People live way too antithetically to how we evolved to live for anyone to be considered “normal”. But I actually think DAs align with antisocial personality. If you understand that people with antisocial personalities aren’t these murdering monsters, and that they’re far more ways to be antisocial than killing people, it makes sense. I think FAs are more in alignment with a borderline personality, and anxious is in alignment with narcissistic personality. It’s all a matter of perspective though. And just like I don’t think there is such a thing as a “normal” personality, I don’t think there is such a thing as a secure attachment style. Humans are too interdependent and interconnected to be a certain way, independent of the people around them. I have been in an almost 16 year relationship with a DA leaning FA though. He experienced a lot of personal trauma as a child. Narcissism gets a very bad rap nowadays, but if you think about what narcissism really is(self love, self interest), it’s actually a good thing. Self interest only becomes a problem when your interests are not in alignment with those closest to you, and in that case, you’re antisocial not narcissistic. That’s just the way I see it. I was very narcissistic when I met my husband, but when I tried to make him part of my “group” so that our interests could become aligned, he resisted because he is far more antisocial than I am. I am still very narcissistic(humans are, naturally), but we have grown together, and he doesn’t have nearly as much fear as he used to about getting close to people. He has also become more narcissistic, which again, is a good thing. They say pathological narcissism is self hate disguised with self love, but that’s not real narcissism. Real narcissism is self love at our core, and we can become so narcissistic that that we see everyone as part of our group(our tribe), once we realize how deeply connected all humans are. We can’t love ourselves and hate anyone else. Hatred of others is hatred of self. Some people believe sociopaths are neutral about themselves and others, but I don’t think that’s possible.
@@katieandnick4113 When I first joined this channel, I noticed people saying DAs aren't welcome here. I've come to see it as true. We're openly called everything from childish to antisocial. Our experiences are disregarded. Our feelings are steamrolled. If this is being healthy, I want no part of it.
@CandanceIsMyName I generally could relate to what you were saying, and agree, as you said lower down, that commitment, promises, vows are empty these days. People are talking about growing old together and being soul mates, and in a year's time, they're strangers who can hardly hold a conversation. I, a romantic my whole life, say today that love is a joke. Your contributions to this channel have been excellent, and I enjoy reading your comments (also because I'm going through a similar thing). I imagine you feel hurt, but please don't let any negativity stop you from engaging here.
@@katieandnick4113 Interesting comment. I think there's a lot in what you are saying. You use "narcissism" in its older sense of the mythological character who fell in love with himself---what could be viewed as self-love. But the world has latched onto this word, and to use it as a synonym for self-love would lead to misunderstanding, in light of its very negative meaning nowadays. At any rate, I would argue that self-love needs to be kept in balance too. Indeed, even in the myth, Narcissus's preoccupation with himself caused him to fall into the water, and that's part of the moral. Today's world has moved the balance disproportionately towards self, to the detriment of other. Something that wasn't always the case in human society. But I do agree that hating ourselves leads to hating others, and that love is the remedy.
@@CandanceIsMyName As usual DA’s externalize everything. “I’m not a problem, I’m feeling unlovable, because everybody else is aggressive, not understanding, needy, clingy and so on”… Instead of stop for moment and think why a lot of people saying that, what patterns of my behavior make other people run away… no, it’s easier to point fingers and say, ugh, they are haters
Thank you! I am a recovering DA who is currently starting to date a secure person. I am very thankful for their presence in my life and she has definitely made me feel very comfortable expressing my emotional needs and be myself around them.
@@flolacandola9396 Yeah I think the biggest thing is whether the avoidant is willing to do the work to open up and be emotionally available. I feel like me being aware of my avoidant attachment, see the pitfalls of it and trying to heal become more secure myself has helped. It’s Def a work in progress but I do feel like I’m starting to be more aware of my emotions, slowly but surely. I would say be patient with your avoidant and hopefully they’re able to meet you halfway
@@kjdaniels3267Truth💯! We all individually, are responsible for our own emotional and mental healing. Nobody can do it for us. If I start to get into a relationship with a DA, I have to make sure they are actively working on their own mental wellbeing currently. If not, it will be a disaster, which is our fault because we didn’t set a boundary up about healing requirements. We have to be proactive as we heal. Choose those who are also choosing healing. We’re worth it!❤️
Very well explained! One quality I like a lot about secure people in my life is their ability to directly communicate so that I didn’t need to read between the lines and that is something I value too after becoming secure!
My ex DA today told me to “read between the lines” after responding and let me know he loves me when I told him the same. I said to him, but we are adults- why would you say you love someone when you don’t? It is best for you to let people know straightforward and communicate directly. I don’t think he can comprehend that haha. I’m praying to meet more secures or people at least working on becoming secure so that at least I’m not being told to read between the lines after being told one thing 😹🤧
Being told to read between the lines is not giving you any emotional nourishment. We have tonkniw and speak up when our emotional needs are not just being ignored but starved out. Its not good enough. He still has to meet you on some common ground. Why us he leaving you lacking the floor looking for nourishment? Even a dog knows and deserves more. He is being stubborn and cruel to you. Make sure he is not a Narcissist.
I can't believe spell check is so lousy. I meant "licking the floor." You should not have to "search for just a few crumbs." He is being withholding and even manipulative. There comes a point when this treatment can just bring a secure person into nothing better than abuse! Really look at this carefully. AND If you are sexually involved, it will be natural for you to bond to him and natural for you to look to him for your emotional needs to be met. But if he refuses you just openly says, " Look for it! Read it! "Read between the lines, " that is just so cruel. You may want to simply ask if he is willing to work on this or NOT !!!
Right, true- I sometimes feel he is narcissistic but try to avoid the word because it’s overly used. But he has been very cruel especially after I left him... & yes I was very shocked to hear him say “read between the lines” when my question was why he has suddenly stopped responding. He literally asked us to meet up to discuss how we will coparent, then he was available in the evening of which I was calm the whole time- only for him to say a sentence saying “we should fix our issues and I felt I wanted to let you know this in person” and he initiated intimacy of which I agreed to because i haven’t been intimate with anyone since we broke up and have told him so. Then he was responsive to me everyday since, and we would sweet talk etc then he stopped. When I asked what was happening, he got aggitated, told me I’m overwhelming him and that the sex we had was just fun, what? How do you say that after I had clearly told you I don’t have casual sex? I told him I felt used and he said ofcourse you always act like a victim, so I asked him okay so what about the fact that we have been exchanging words of love and he said, if the sex was for fun- everything else was for fun! Omg- and yet somehow he wants us to keep in communication for our baby and I told him no- I will do it alone, I’m okay. He makes me feel stuck, because he always pulls me in then pulls me out. I just want to find a way to release the bond, because I believe he wants to use the child as leverage to keep us bonded but I think the legal way is best so that I can move on from him. 🙏🏾
I consider myself a very securely attached person. I'm currently dating a dismissive avoidant and everything she says is true. Fortunately for me he's willing to put in the work and I definitely have had to lead by example in a lot of ways but it's very rewarding when I can see him picking up on some of those things. We're almost 8 months into officially being in a committed relationship, and over a year of being with each other and he's just now getting to the point where he can effectively communicate his needs and set boundaries. He set a very small boundary the other day and told me that he felt bad for setting it and I told him the only way I'm going to know what he needs is if he communicates that with me. Baby steps, but it's going well. Although it would be ideal to date another securely attached person. I think you must also be attracted to that person and have a lot of other things in common attachment style is not the only qualifier. You can find someone who meets a lot of your needs and wants but has a very different attachment style.
Agreed. No-one talks about this. I know that attachments are on a spectrum and you can have more than one at varying degrees. I searched this (secure to anxious) on RU-vid to no avail. Maybe I should start talking about it myself. I mean it make sense.. human are malleable to their circumstances. Whilst a secure have a good relationship with shame, they are not impermeable.
Same, but we’re still together on the verge of a break up, although we can have a talk and see if we can fix this creative plan to progress and hopefully heal whatever has turned her into a DA
How often do you see a DA pull a secure away from their “mooring,” if you will, and start becoming more insecure, instead of helping the DA move more toward secure?
Great video. I’m a former DA/earned secure who has been dating someone who appeared secure until we moved in together (after 1.5yrs of dating) then started showing a lot of signs of FA leaning DA. At first, I had a lot of compassion and wanted to share what I’ve learned here. But 2 years further in, I’m done with the withdrawing/inconsistent vulnerability. It’s become a rollercoaster and I feel like I’m allowing myself to become conditioned into anxious attachment trying to prevent the disconnection that is his M.O. Its proof that attachment style can change- for better and for worse! I now believe I need to leave the relationship to get back to practicing secure thoughts/behaviors and not participate in the drama any longer. So grateful for Thais’ wisdom and practical instruction.
That's such a great thought process. I would honestly do the same. The more secure I become, the less desire I have to participate in any relationships/friendships that bring me back to what I've worked so hard on. I'm slowly letting go of friendships where it's clear they are not committed to personal growth as well. My friends and I are in our mid 40's and the amount of time I've spent on the phone or through messages with them telling me yet another story of situations they continually put themselves in without taking any accountability is unreal. I still care about them, but I need to do it from a distance.
I’m also earned secure/ ex FA and dealing with a DA leaning FA and the inconsistent hot and cold, push and pull behavior is so exhausting. Omg, like no matter how I try to communicate everything as Thais says- we end up in disagreements of me asking him why he stopped texting all of a sudden, or disappeared and he feels overwhelmed I guess with being shown consistent love or communication. Idk if this dynamic can work long term really unless the DA truly does the work and the SA offers empathy and patience. It’s not easy for sure. But I don’t understand why the DA wants to somehow hold on while at the same time wanting out. Like 🤦🏽♀️
@@emangrabogadi4613sometimes a person has big work problems that require a lot of attention, something stressful happened and it's taking energy... Then on top of that having to baby one's partner who can't understand that there's other things besides them in life, gets a bit much. Not saying you're being like that, but I can imagine how DA's must feel when their partner can't take care of their stuff themselves, and need the attention on a consistent basis or they get rattled and tearful. Also, you mention that the DA has to do the work, but in this example you mentioned, seems more like you meant the FA acting out in this situation? I mean DA will just let go
@@ashton1952 I understand what you're saying, and yes, there's a whole life that people have got to see to. But what I think often happens is that a person, not needing attention or being taken care of, is just trying to show care, affection, and presence---perhaps out of fullness themselves---and this is then construed by the other party as neediness.
Yep, after a similar situation around the 2 year mark, complete withdrawal, and spending another 3 trying to figure out what, or why (which really was just "arguments")..I've found this channel and started to acknowledge and do my own work after the separation for "space". All of it in hindsight is absolutely textbook DA attachment from them, thanks to this channel I am able to see and acknowledge that. But boy oh boy did it not send me straight to an AP style. Sent a few of these videos that way and just said, hey, I've found this (a video on DA traits, a video on AP traits, and a video on a relationship between the 2, and one on DA and sex), and really think it hits a lot of our relationship points. I'd like you to take a look and let's talk about if you see any of these similarities in a few weeks. They reached out 3 weeks later, with no real substance other than attempting to breadcrumb, I realize if you're not willing to watch a half hour worth of videos, you're not interested in actually doing the work. And the "space to work on themselves", is really just space to move on, sometimes you gotta let em go if they don't want to stand by you and do the work after that long together. I feel like I gave myself a boundary with giving the time to watch, process, and reflect, and they couldn't show up. To me, "hey how was your new years", was just them trying to check in if I did something that wouldn't be approved of. I spent 3 years waiting for someone who wouldn't show up for me ever, in done with that. I feel bad for these people, I truly do, her longest relationship was around 2 years. You're doomed to repeat that same cycle and never be happy, if you can't figure out, ok, it's time to grow up.
My gf is a DA. We've been together for 3 years. She is much older but never had a relationship longer than 6 months. We break up a lot though...Its very difficult to deal with damaged people.
@@elrincondelcaballeroluna no living together. we both dont want that. if its already difficult this way, it would be impossible living together. And in general i think its a really bad idea.
My relationship was 3.5 years and we broke up every few months. I couldn’t even talk to my friends about it anymore because it was so embarrassing and annoying for them to hear. Such a wild and heartbreaking ride!
My DA was shut down and able to come back after conflict. He was feeling very shameful about his issue, I told him it’s not his fault. He felt so reassured and was much more open and we feel so much more closer. I am so proud of him able to open up and talk to me after shutting down. Your videos saved me from so much headache! Thank you Thais!
Same here and I was literally thinking the same thing! I think why I’m watching it is to gather as much information as I can to open my eyes to everything I’ve been though with him. Understanding, processing and realizing thing were never going to work will *hopefully* help the healing process. Also, at least it’s something else to do besides crying my eyes out! 😭🫣
5 years and 2 kids. The younger kid is 9 months old and she broke up before she was born... Moral of the story: it can always be worse. But now we are fully separated sharing the kids 50/50 and I feel free. I definitely turned anxious with her. You are watching so you can understand and heal I guess.
I would also say if the parent/carer is still in their life, they aren’t ever going to change because they are still at a 5 year old emotional level. These insecurities are reinforced every day by the carer, nothing anyone else does can override that.
i can understand that. It makes sense because it seems as if when his mom calls his phone he answered right away. When his mom needed him he was there for her. Which is ok of course but when i needed something i was scared to ask because i felt i would be rejected or shown lack of support. He also told me he had a dream that i was mad at him cause he was with another girl so i left him he said the girl was actually his mom. It’s been hard for me to understand what happened in between their relationship as he grew up.
It's really hard. The best thing to do is love yourself and try to understand what happened to them without destroying yourself in the process. Stay busy and focus on keeping you happy ❤❤
DA here now securely attached, I focus more on improving myself and become more secured than people who likes to criticize specially AP. I guess that's a strength to not care about what people think of you. I'm also INTJ woman and I think that the most logical approach to marriage, is to be secured attacher and never marry someone with insecured attachment. Secured attachers never settle for less because they are confident in themselves. Well, that motivates me to become more secured.❤ I also work on becoming more close with people and God to become more stable emotionally.
Thank you for the video! I have healed my FA attachment to SA, and still together with my DA SO. I have been unsure how to proceed the growth in our relationship to a higher level of interdependence, and sometimes question the relationship for this reason, but this video has given me some encouragement and ideas how to reopen conversations about that.
"how To proceed the growth and have a higher level of interdependence" is my constant struggle in my relationship with my DA bf. It's exhausting, and I don't know if I can keep going/ keep having the conversations with him, where he wants to try but I don't think he knows how to be interdependent. Or we may have different definitions/ understanding of interdependence.
@@takebackmylifetakemylifeba8362does he come to you when he has problems in his life, to discuss how he feels to you, or to ask you for support? I have found that since he feels safe to open up to me in such ways, it automatically becomes more reciprocal. As previously his extreme counter-dependence meant "I solve my own issues, as you solve your own issues". He would be upset if I need comforting words or help, as he didn't experience any room or notion that he can equally rely on others, so it felt like I only want to take from him. Now he's now much more on the side of: "I solve my own issues but I can lean on others for support, and others can lean on me for support while they solve their issues".
Spot on. I don't know for sure if the girl im dating is a DA, but I'm certain I'm a SA. she always said she was broken. unfortunately, I basically called it off. I said when you're ready reach out and left her with some resources to find her way. I've already accepted that it's over, but if the timing is right for us both I'm willing to try again should she reach out. In the meantime I might find a SA partner!
@@SandraWade666 Yeah. well the silver lining from this whole experience is I've definitely improved my communication. Another tool in the toolbox to help us achieve our goals.
DA and SAs can get along well as the SA respects the DAs need for space and doesn't smoother them, but if there is ever an instance when things become emotional *ahem the power struggle stage* it's like the DA was looking for a reason to end it and will be out of the door like they are on fire! 😂 also any time commitment is coming up, moving in etc etc until the DA realises they have a problem and they will ultimately really end up alone that they start to change. DA exs will come back but only if you don't contact them, you were relatively stable during the break-up and give them at least a year, if you block them they will never reach out to you so your emotional regulation has to be solid and keep comms open and interactions without drama or emotion
I’m mostly secure, little bit of an anxious side. Recently dated fa leaning da and she exposed every insecurity I had in the relationship and some stuff deep down I’m usually better at concealing. I felt her pulling away and couldn’t figure out what was happening or why, definitely made me feel inadequate and like I was failing. Then I eventually became confrontational and it fell apart fast. We haven’t been together now in 6 weeks and haven’t talked about a month. These videos help thank you
Is it common for originally DA attachment styles who are becoming more secure, to go through more of a FA phase inbetween? I noticed this happen with me.
“If” the DA doesn’t leave the secure. Of course, the secure person will leave a dead end and unfulfilling relationship with an emotionally unavailable person, or the dismissive avoidant will leave due to their fears and negative beliefs.
I’m pretty secure and i didnt know anything about attachment styles till i was in a relationship with him. Something didn’t seem right as time was going( together 3years) usually in relationships you grow closer in bond with your partner but with him it was surfaced base type of love for a while, not really opening up about feelings in depth. It seems as if when his mom calls his phone he answered right away. When his mom needed him he was there for her. Which is ok of course but when i needed something i was scared to ask because i felt i would be rejected or shown lack of support. He also told me he had a dream that i was mad at him cause he was with another girl so i left him he said the girl was actually his mom. It’s been hard for me to understand what may have happened in between their relationship as he grew up. But we’re done now lol. I just know i tried.
Thais I agree... My DA ex is High on the DA scale to where he SO DELUSION RIGHT NOW!!! He is SUPER STUBBORN! I TRIED discsing my alts with him yesterday 1/12/2024. He get Defensive, wants to hang up on me, talks over me after him asking me a question; since he doesn't to hear my truthful response?
Thanks that was really helpful. I'm fearful avoidant, but I've done some recovery, so sometimes I show up as secure :). But I will use that 'I enjoy talking to you. I want to talk more'. It does feel like I'm inching towards the edge of a high dive board, but I'll give it a go and see what happens. :)
Thank you for this video, I will do that for my platonic (she avoidant) comes back, put up boundaries and soothe talk (my voice is soothing and deep). She was interesting to me and never commit.
NOONE is talking about this.. I know that attachments are on a spectrum and you can have more than one at varying degrees. I searched this (secure to anxious) on RU-vid to no avail. Maybe I should start talking about it myself. I mean it make sense.. humans are malleable to their circumstances. Whilst a secure has a good relationship with shame, they are not impermeable.
How do we get them to open up, tell us what happened?? I don’t even know at this point! They do trust me, revealed something else very private, but nothing about childhood. 😢
So i have a question Secure attatchment won't give in to the stupid patterns of dismissive avoidants. Anxious attatched are left by DA's only. And 2 avoidants can't work out with each other because who's going to work on the dynamic. So which attatchment style cam actually manage with DA's? The worst worst kind. Has scarred me to my core now.
SA, FA and less extreme DA can work well with DA. The thing is with insecure attachment styles, the relationship will always neigh towards polarity. A DA dating a DA; one of them is going to exhibit more anxious characteristics. The same goes for an AP dating an AP; one will be so extreme AP that the other will exhibit avoidant characteristics. I actually think AP men are the worst to date. I have been severely scarred, and stalked for years, which is scary. I have never been stalked by an avoidant.
Do you see secure partner getting frustrated by the lack of responsiveness resulting in escalating negative dialog as they try to shake them out of their apparent stupor? Also is it normal for an avoidant spouse not to acknowledge that their cheated when they had an emotional affair for a year that involved frequent texting and flirting then actual dates days after after asking for a divorce?
Sorry, but the way you described the securely attached they’re just needy andinterested in using other people to feel a certain way and being assholes about it. I am also willing to accept that Maybe I just missed the point. They seem really insecure and needy and needing someone to help them regulate them self
